Gardai find 43% of learners driving unaccompanied

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

tayto lover

Their insurance will not cover them either if they have an accident.
No wonder our roads are so dangerous.
The fact that some drivers are on their 11th Provisional Licence is also very scary.

Alanstrainor

tayto lover wrote: »

Their insurance will not cover them either if they have an accident.

This is absolutely NOT true.

tayto lover

Alanstrainor wrote: »

This is absolutely NOT true.

Really ?? Have heard of one insurance company refusing to pay out.

Mayo_Boy

tayto lover wrote: »

Really ?? Have heard of one insurance company refusing to pay out.

I also heard this, from a gaurd

MascotDec85

Some policies specifically state that the driver must be accompanied.

If they are unaccompanied and in an accident their insurance is null and void.


If it's not specifically stated they are insured in order to protect the other party

ADIDriving

There are on average 4,000 prosecutions every year for the offence of driving without a driving licence.
The more learners that know this compared to the ones who know drivers getting away with it the better.

shane.

Alanstrainor wrote: »

This is absolutely NOT true.

well it should be true,every learner driver who is prosecuted should be refused insurance

aN.Droid

Insurance companies by law are required to provide at the very least third party cover no matter what the terms and conditions of your insurance policy states, they may not pay out for your car in an accident but they MUST pay out to third parties.

DrivingMad

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

completely agree with this, maybe it should be enforced same as the uk, and have the cars impounded if found to be driving without a full licence or infringing any other law.
just wonder would we have any car pounds big enough to hold all them cars!!

Pomplamousse

The full article doesn't even say what happened to all these drivers who were found to be driving unaccompanied without a full licence, given a warning and told to be on their way would be my bet!

Also, 848 drivers on their 11th licence or more:eek:

blindside88

Limericks wrote: »

Insurance companies by law are required to provide at the very least third party cover no matter what the terms and conditions of your insurance policy states, they may not pay out for your car in an accident but they MUST pay out to third parties.

100% correct, and completely necessary.

Lon Dubh

ADIDriving wrote: »

There are on average 4,000 prosecutions every year for the offence of driving without a driving licence.
The more learners that know this compared to the ones who know drivers getting away with it the better.

Is that 4,000 people prosecuted for not having any licence at all? or 4,000 prosected for driving unaccompanied?

I am hoping to get a car in the next week or so, but my family don't really want to be my accompanied driver, and they think that I should just go out on my own to practice. They keep telling me I am unlikely to get caught if I go out on my own.

I don't want to go out on my own as I think it is stupid to break the law unnecessarily when I might have a full licence in a few weeks if I pass my exam. (I don't have a job, so I could just go out when it suited them. I'd be happy with going out about twice a week for short spins). If I have some evidence of fines/prosecutions for driving unaccompanied I might be able to convince them to help me out. I live in a city so I think the odds of getting caught would be high.

All I want them to do is sit there, as I know what I'm supposed to do (though obviously if they see me doing something stupid I would want them to mention it). I've had loads of lessons, and I'm going to continue doing lessons until I pass my exam, but I would love to be able to practice a little between lessons. Mind you I might end up just doing most of the driving pre-exam by lesson anyway as I think my family might make me nervous, but I'd like to give it a shot.

Anyway any info on people getting into trouble for driving unaccompanied would be appreciated, as things are very different from when they were learning but I don't think they get that. I think they think I'm just being silly.

arleitiss

So is it okay to drive without accompanied?

jhegarty

shane. wrote: »

well it should be true,every learner driver who is prosecuted should be refused insurance

And if your hit by an unaccompanied L-driver ?

blindside88

jhegarty wrote: »

shane. wrote: »

well it should be true,every learner driver who is prosecuted should be refused insurance

And if your hit by an unaccompanied L-driver ?

Many companies will refuse to insure if you have ever had a conviction or endorsement . If you are driving while unaccompanied the insurance company will pay third party claims but may attempt to recoup losses from you (principal of subrogation)

ProudDUB

arleitiss wrote: »

So is it okay to drive without accompanied?

No. You are breaking the law.

I am hoping to get a car in the next week or so, but my family don't really want to be my accompanied driver, and they think that I should just go out on my own to practice. They keep telling me I am unlikely to get caught if I go out on my own.

Fair play to you for wanting and trying to do things the proper way. Your family are being very stupid and short sighted by encouraging you not to do so. Which one of them is going to pay your fine for you if you DO get caught for driving unaccompanied? Ask them that !

Your sponsor doesn't have to be family member. It can be anyone who has held a full license for at least 2 years. Sometimes it can be good for it to be someone that you don't have a close familial relationship with. It can be hard for parents and siblings to leave the dynamics of that relationship at the car door, and just sit there and say nothing and do nothing. That can affect your driving and your confidence level.

So think outside the box. Do you have friends or work colleagues who you could offer a lift to and from work? Do you have friends who would appreciate a lift to the shops, the train station, the gym etc etc? Do you have friends who would appreciate you being the designated driver on a night out? There are a lot of fully qualified drivers out there who chose not to drive a car everywhere & who would love to be able to get from A to B while someone else (you) pays for the petrol. It is just up to you to find them.

Ruski

tayto lover wrote: »

No wonder our roads are so dangerous.

Seriously?

Motorist

Not good that this widespread disregard for the law is happening, but that is the result of lack of enforcement by the gardai and lack of penalties.

That said however, I dont think there's some magical transformation of driving standards when someone passes the test. The roads are full of incompetent, ignorant, dangerous drivers who should be directed to get further driving education.

Robxxx7

Motorist wrote: »

Not good that this widespread disregard for the law is happening, but that is the result of lack of enforcement by the gardai and lack of penalties.

That said however, I dont think there's some magical transformation of driving standards when someone passes the test. The roads are full of incompetent, ignorant, dangerous drivers who should be directed to get further driving education.

True ... but at least you have reached an acceptable standard of driving if passed by an examiner ... whereas today due to lack of real enforcement people can drive many years without a licence, pick up all the bad habits and generally shouldn't be on the roads ...

Should do what they do in the UK ... impound the car

teR_

Its a ridiculous law that deserves to be broken. The other countries that have this law do not put the 'you must hold your licence 6 months' and '12 lessons' before you can do your test in the way. Its one way or another this law cannot function both ways. In this country they want you to have a full license before you even get into a car. Then there the small factory of how competent this 'accompanying driver' really is you could be learning from the worst driver in the feckin country.

MascotDec85

teR_ wrote: »

Its a ridiculous law that deserves to be broken. The other countries that have this law do not put the 'you must hold your licence 6 months' and '12 lessons' before you can do your test in the way. Its one way or another this law cannot function both ways. In this country they want you to have a full license before you even get into a car. Then there the small factory of how competent this 'accompanying driver' really is you could be learning from the worst driver in the feckin country.

Don't really know where to start with that tbh

Robxxx7

teR_ wrote: »

Its a ridiculous law that deserves to be broken. The other countries that have this law do not put the 'you must hold your licence 6 months' and '12 lessons' before you can do your test in the way. Its one way or another this law cannot function both ways. In this country they want you to have a full license before you even get into a car. Then there the small factory of how competent this 'accompanying driver' really is you could be learning from the worst driver in the feckin country.

I'll start

No, they want you to take lessons from an ADI and learn to drive correctly.
Nothing to stop you as a learner buying a car and getting insurance .. then driving around with a fully licensed passenger .....

Faith+1

Robxxx7 wrote: »

I'll start

No, they want you to take lessons from an ADI and learn to drive correctly.
Nothing to stop you as a learner buying a car and getting insurance .. then driving around with a fully licensed passenger .....

Which everybody does right?:rolleyes:

rushian

My 2 cents - I am in my mid 30s and started to learn to drive in November last year. I do not have a car and decided to wait until I have a full license until I get one. This law being the main reason. I do find this law very difficult as I do not have anybody with a full license that is available to accompany me. (I know plenty of full license holders btw just not free to drive around with me) Not only does this affect my learning process as the only time I get to drive is when I get a lesson but it is also very bloody expensive.
I have pretty much being doing 2-3 lessons a week (sometimes 2 hours at a time) both to learn and practise driving.

I have not and will not break the law but because of this the learning process is not as easy as some would make out

Bannasidhe

teR_ wrote: »

Its a ridiculous law that deserves to be broken. The other countries that have this law do not put the 'you must hold your licence 6 months' and '12 lessons' before you can do your test in the way. Its one way or another this law cannot function both ways. In this country they want you to have a full license before you even get into a car. Then there the small factory of how competent this 'accompanying driver' really is you could be learning from the worst driver in the feckin country.

Really? I lived in Oz for a few years and even though I had both a full UK and a full Irish licence I had to do the Oz Theory test, after which I got a 'learner's Permit' which meant I had to be accompanied by someone who had their licence for (I think) 5 years, also had to have at least 10 lessons before I could sit the driving test. Once I passed the driving test - I got a full (Silver) licence.
My OH had a full US licence (Mass) and even though she also passed the theory test and driving test was on a 'provisional' for a year which placed restrictions on her - e.g. not allowed to drive at more then 80k even on a motorway, had to display 'P' plates etc.

I remember my brother telling me over 20 years ago that in Switzerland everyone had to have 10 lessons before doing the driving test - and if anyone failed 3 times they had to see a psychologist before being allowed to try again.

Far too many people are driving around this country on provisional licences - and don't get me started on those in their 70s who paid a pound for their full licence back in the 1960s and have never taken a driving test- - my father being one of them and my brother's ex mother-in-law was another. The latter has had a full drivers licence since 1962 but has never driven a car in her life. :eek:

Recessionbust

The Percentage of drivers found on Prov licence may not be as high if there was not a stupid amount of waiting time to sit your test.

The RSA say:
The good news is that waiting lists are getting shorter. We aim to have a national average waiting time for a driving test of 10 weeks. Our ability to meet this target depends on the number of applications received. Accordingly, the average waiting time in driving test centres may vary above or below this 10-week target.

10 weeks if your lucky or live in the back ar**e of no where maybe.
Its typical of the Irish Goverment to introduce policys but then do not introduce measures to assist in putting these policys in place.

Bannasidhe

Recessionbust wrote: »

The Percentage of drivers found on Prov licence may not be as high if there was not a stupid amount of waiting time to sit your test.

The RSA say:
The good news is that waiting lists are getting shorter. We aim to have a national average waiting time for a driving test of 10 weeks. Our ability to meet this target depends on the number of applications received. Accordingly, the average waiting time in driving test centres may vary above or below this 10-week target.

10 weeks if your lucky or live in the back ar**e of no where maybe.
Its typical of the Irish Goverment to introduce policys but then do not introduce measures to assist in putting these policys in place.

and that is a fair point. In the case of Oz (Sydney and Brisbane at least) there was a driver test centre (which also did the theory tests) in every suburb - usually in the main shopping centre. The whole thing only took me two weeks.

MascotDec85

teR_ wrote: »

Its a ridiculous law that deserves to be broken. The other countries that have this law do not put the 'you must hold your licence 6 months' and '12 lessons' before you can do your test in the way. Its one way or another this law cannot function both ways. In this country they want you to have a full license before you even get into a car. Then there the small factory of how competent this 'accompanying driver' really is you could be learning from the worst driver in the feckin country.

Firstly, I'll state it's not a ridiculous law and it doesn't deserve to be broken. A speed limit is a law, would that deserve to be broken or deemed ridiculous?

Nobody is asking people to get a full licence before getting into a car. That is a statement which is ridiculous. Other countries like the UK don't really feel the need to make or cajole learners into taking proper lessons as it's the widely accepted attitude of almost all learners over there that's how you are supposed to learn to drive. You become of age to drive, you go straight to an instructor and you start your lessons. Simple as that. Rarely you get learners driving unaccompanied over there.

This is all about a mindset. These rules have came in to change the mindset of a nation that was VERY lax in relation to learning to drive. Over a number of years hopefully this mindset will change. Today's 14 year olds will simply get on with it. It's generally those caught in the transition period who are doing all the complaining.

Learning to drive and ultimately passing the test can and has been done by purely taking lessons with an ADI. I myself did it.
It can also be done using a combination of an ADI and an accompanying driver. I do agree that an accompanying driver can be of limited ability themselves however that's not just an Irish issue, it's the same all over the world.

I lay the blame mostly at the doorstep of the Guards. They have ignored an existing law for years. With a zero tolerance approach, like in the UK, the problem wouldn't exist to the extent it does.

MascotDec85

Recessionbust wrote: »

The Percentage of drivers found on Prov licence may not be as high if there was not a stupid amount of waiting time to sit your test.

The RSA say:
The good news is that waiting lists are getting shorter. We aim to have a national average waiting time for a driving test of 10 weeks. Our ability to meet this target depends on the number of applications received. Accordingly, the average waiting time in driving test centres may vary above or below this 10-week target.

10 weeks if your lucky or live in the back ar**e of no where maybe.
Its typical of the Irish Goverment to introduce policys but then do not introduce measures to assist in putting these policys in place.

I'll counter that by saying the waiting time would reduce if people would stop booking a test simply to get their 3rd provision and not bothering their backside showing up. Or people who turn up for test without tax or with a faulty brake light etc etc.

All the above impact on waiting time. There was one day a month or so ago in Navan where 1 tester went out on only ONE test all day due to people not turning up.

The 2 centres I deal with, Navan and Dundalk are both 8 weeks at present

Recessionbust

MascotDec85 wrote: »

Firstly, I'll state it's not a ridiculous law and it doesn't deserve to be broken. Agreed its not a stupid law, its just stupid Goverment policys that implement a law without putting the nessecary things in place.


I lay the blame mostly at the doorstep of the Guards. They have ignored an existing law for years. With a zero tolerance approach, like in the UK, the problem wouldn't exist to the extent it does.

You blame the Garda? Would you not blame the guys in Dail who have ensured that we now have feck all Garda? Sure taking learner drivers to court and spending 4hrs processing paperwork is far more important then the 1000 other crimes,murders etc they need to attend too.

MascotDec85

Recessionbust wrote: »

You blame the Garda? Would you not blame the guys in Dail who have ensured that we now have feck all Garda? Sure taking learner drivers to court and spending 4hrs processing paperwork is far more important then the 1000 other crimes,murders etc they need to attend too.

Mate, it's not a new problem. It's existed for years and the Guards sat back watching it happen. "Ah sure, go on" :rolleyes: Had the enforced the rule from the outset the issue would be minimal.

It's been enforced in the UK for years and works.

What are the Traffic Corps supposed to be doing?

Recessionbust

MascotDec85 wrote: »

Mate, it's not a new problem. It's existed for years and the Guards sat back watching it happen. "Ah sure, go on" :rolleyes: Had the enforced the rule from the outset the issue would be minimal.

It's been enforced in the UK for years and works.

What are the Traffic Corps supposed to be doing?

Credit where its due, 100% correct its not a new problem but to be fair for years there was feck all Garda could do about it. The Traffic corps sure there trying to justify there existence by catching us people in bus lanes and slightly excedding the speed limit on roads that you could land a jumbo jet.

The example of them not been able to do something about it in the past was something I experienced at 20. A Patrol car hit me, I was only a learner no L plates up. Guess What I got?? A new car and no I didnt sue or claim my insurance it was courtesy of them but I got no fine, prosecution or anything else. But to be fair it was many years ago

MascotDec85

Recessionbust wrote: »

Credit where its due, 100% correct its not a new problem but to be fair for years there was feck all Garda could do about it. The Traffic corps sure there trying to justify there existence by catching us people in bus lanes and slightly excedding the speed limit on roads that you could land a jumbo jet.

The example of them not been able to do something about it in the past was something I experienced at 20. A Patrol car hit me, I was only a learner no L plates up. Guess What I got?? A new car and no I didnt sue or claim my insurance it was courtesy of them but I got no fine, prosecution or anything else. But to be fair it was many years ago

You've just concluded my argument better than I could have

christmas2012

Id be more worried about qualified drivers that have more 'confidence' or recklessness about them speeding and that..
They are penalising learner drivers who have to learn somehow,and what better place to do it on the roads,(they shouldnt have to pay everytime they want to learn,or gain good experience)to do your driving test if you tot up all the costs of paying for driving lessons the driving fee has gone up to you are talking about thousands on the price of the car,insurance,road tax..
What i see in the near future is less people driving and more people using public transport..

Recessionbust

MascotDec85 wrote: »

You've just concluded my argument better than I could have

Thats because I agree with "part" of your argument, :P

MattHelders

I booked my test 12 weeks ago and haven't even got a date yet. If they want us to obey the rules, maybe they should sort themselves out

MascotDec85

MattHelders wrote: »

I booked my test 12 weeks ago and haven't even got a date yet. If they want us to obey the rules, maybe they should sort themselves out

Call them and chase it up

OldNotWIse

ProudDUB wrote: »

No. You are breaking the law.




Fair play to you for wanting and trying to do things the proper way. Your family are being very stupid and short sighted by encouraging you not to do so. Which one of them is going to pay your fine for you if you DO get caught for driving unaccompanied? Ask them that !

Your sponsor doesn't have to be family member. It can be anyone who has held a full license for at least 2 years. Sometimes it can be good for it to be someone that you don't have a close familial relationship with. It can be hard for parents and siblings to leave the dynamics of that relationship at the car door, and just sit there and say nothing and do nothing. That can affect your driving and your confidence level.

So think outside the box. Do you have friends or work colleagues who you could offer a lift to and from work? Do you have friends who would appreciate a lift to the shops, the train station, the gym etc etc? Do you have friends who would appreciate you being the designated driver on a night out? There are a lot of fully qualified drivers out there who chose not to drive a car everywhere & who would love to be able to get from A to B while someone else (you) pays for the petrol. It is just up to you to find them.

Agree, I was stupid enough to go out in the car at the weekend and got pulled. They even told me the reason they pulled me was I was driving too slowly and caused suspicion (they thought I might have been drinking)

MascotDec85

christmas2012 wrote: »

Id be more worried about qualified drivers that have more 'confidence' or recklessness about them speeding and that..
They are penalising learner drivers who have to learn somehow,and what better place to do it on the roads,(they shouldnt have to pay everytime they want to learn,or gain good experience)to do your driving test if you tot up all the costs of paying for driving lessons the driving fee has gone up to you are talking about thousands on the price of the car,insurance,road tax..
What i see in the near future is less people driving and more people using public transport..

That type of driver does need to be tackled too but that's not the issue being discussed. Using "whataboutary" doesn't solve either issue.
The whole point is they aren't penalizing learners cos it's rarely enforced. You either pay to take lessons or drive whilst being supervised.

Seriously, what makes Ireland so special that people can learn to drive how and where they want without staying within the law like learners do elsewhere?

If people can't afford to take lessons they certainly won't be able to afford to run a car.

Ciderswigger

MattHelders wrote: »

I booked my test 12 weeks ago and haven't even got a date yet. If they want us to obey the rules, maybe they should sort themselves out

Pfft, 12 weeks....:P
I sent my application last June and didn't get a date till the week before Christmas.

When I was learning I did go without another person sometimes but usually I'd have the mother with me. But she got her licence waaaay back when you didnt have to sit a test, they just gave it to her. :eek:
So, even though I was obeying the law, she was of no help to me as she'd only driven about 5 times in her life. If I wan't sure what lane to be in/when to go/etc she couldn't give me a definite answer.
While I agree that some L drivers are in dire need of another person in the car (for confidence, to explain things as they happen, etc), a qualified person doesn't always equate to a safe person.

Anyways, that's just my thoughts on it.

christmas2012

Im not trying to use whataboutery,im trying to put it in context,ive seen qualified drivers,as a learner driver flying off the road well over the white line,one false move on the road while speeding can have a car toppling over from the opposite side of the road onto yours,and it does happen thats how most crashes happen,a lot of qualified drivers do get in car crashes and contribute to road fatalities..
as far as car costs go:you pay through the nose before you even get your car
1 the cost of provisional,b)and license if you get it
2 the cost of applying for your license fee(im suprised they havent bumped it up to 150 yet those moneygrubbing ****ers)..
3 insurance
4 road tax
5 the cost of maintenance if anything does go wrong(putting a couple of 100 aside for that)..
6 actual cost of car(usually a couple of grand if youre not looking for anything fancy)..

anybody starting out can well not afford..

MascotDec85

christmas2012 wrote: »

Im not trying to use whataboutery,im trying to put it in context,ive seen qualified drivers,as a learner driver flying off the road well over the white line,one false move on the road while speeding can have a car toppling over from the opposite side of the road onto yours,and it does happen thats how most crashes happen,a lot of qualified drivers do get in car crashes and contribute to road fatalities..
as far as car costs go:you pay through the nose before you even get your car
1 the cost of provisional,b)and license if you get it
2 the cost of applying for your license fee(im suprised they havent bumped it up to 150 yet those moneygrubbing ****ers)..
3 insurance
4 road tax
5 the cost of maintenance if anything does go wrong(putting a couple of 100 aside for that)..
6 actual cost of car(usually a couple of grand if youre not looking for anything fancy)..

anybody starting out can well not afford..

I see stupid driving everyday mate, I agree with you as far as that goes.

You don't necessarily need a car of your own to learn to drive.

Take things a step at a time is my advice.

Pass test, get car

tayto lover

The Driving Test itself is a major problem.
1. They never happen at night.
2. They never take you onto a motorway.
3. They rarely if ever take you around a roundabout.

There are probably other things too.

When you pass the test then you can fly down the motorway and around roundabouts in the dark even if you have little or no experience.

christmas2012

people have to learn at somepoint,they obviously think you are road worthy if you can do the basics on the roads,like reversing,observation,three point turning ,reaction to hazards,slowing up,taking off,changing gears etc..

if you start over regulating then nobody will bother,having a car and learning to drive is expensive enough as it is,there is no point adding more penalties to it,try and see it from the other side..

at the way things are going,its getting more expensive,i see more people on public transport these days,cheaper in the year long run,you dont have to pay for maintenance of a car,cost of a car,road tax,and car insurance..

teR_

MascotDec85 wrote: »

Firstly, I'll state it's not a ridiculous law and it doesn't deserve to be broken. A speed limit is a law, would that deserve to be broken or deemed ridiculous?

Way off the point here but to answer you, a speed limit is not a ridiculous law.

Nobody is asking people to get a full licence before getting into a car. That is a statement which is ridiculous.

How do you learn? by doing. With this law and all the other laws that affect the learner it puts about 400 obstacles in your way - slowing your progress down to crawling pace. (Do you know how hard it is to find someone to accompany you?)

Other countries like the UK don't really feel the need to make or cajole learners into taking proper lessons as it's the widely accepted attitude of almost all learners over there that's how you are supposed to learn to drive. You become of age to drive, you go straight to an instructor and you start your lessons. Simple as that. Rarely you get learners driving unaccompanied over there. This is all about a mindset. These rules have came in to change the mindset of a nation that was VERY lax in relation to learning to drive. Over a number of years hopefully this mindset will change. Today's 14 year olds will simply get on with it. It's generally those caught in the transition period who are doing all the complaining.

I would of never even though about gettin into a car without taken lessons and the majority of people i know wouldn't either (bar one or two) I really like the idea of the EDT. What i don't agree with is the rest - 6 months & and accompanying driver.

Learning to drive and ultimately passing the test can and has been done by purely taking lessons with an ADI. I myself did it. (Some people learn at a slower pace than you) It can also be done using a combination of an ADI and an accompanying driver. I do agree that an accompanying driver can be of limited ability themselves however that's not just an Irish issue, it's the same all over the world.

I lay the blame mostly at the doorstep of the Guards. They have ignored an existing law for years. With a zero tolerance approach, like in the UK, the problem - (what problem?) - wouldn't exist to the extent it does.

Replies in quote..

LizT

tayto lover wrote: »

The Driving Test itself is a major problem.
1. They never happen at night.
2. They never take you onto a motorway.
3. They rarely if ever take you around a roundabout.

There are probably other things too.

When you pass the test then you can fly down the motorway and around roundabouts in the dark even if you have little or no experience.

I would have to completely disagree with that. Within the first five minutes of my test I had to go around two roundabouts, do a reverse around a corner and then go back through those roundabouts.

yer man!

Seeing as you have to do a set number of lessons anyway, why is there a 6 month clause to the provisional license? surely after 12 lessons most people would be ready to go for the test, seems annoying that if you are a very good driver you still have to wait until your license is 6 months old before being allowed sit the test.

MascotDec85

Below are 2 examples of what rules apply to learners. Below that again is a wiki link which explains what rules learners must adopt and covers supervision.

The UK

Learner drivers
Learners driving a car MUST hold a valid provisional licence. They MUST be supervised by someone at least 21 years old who holds a full EC/EEA licence for that type of car (automatic or manual) and has held one for at least three years.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069868

South Australia

Driver's who obtained a learner’s permit on or after 4 September 2010 must also:

Complete at least 75 supervised driving hours (including 15 hours at night).
Must hold a learner’s permit for at least 12 months, if under the age of 25, 6 months if over 25.

Qualified Supervising Drivers
You can supervise a learner driver if you meet these legal requirements:
You’ve held a current Australian full licence holder for the vehicle class being driven for the past two years.
No driving disqualifications or good behaviour conditions in the past two years.
If you hold a licence from a recognised country. Any other licences do not allow you to be a Qualified Supervising Driver.
You need to sit in the seat next to them whilst they are driving at all times.

http://mylicence.sa.gov.au/parents_and_supervisors

L Plate Rules
Important driving rules you must know and follow.

Conditions
You are only allowed to drive the class of vehicle stated on the learner’s permit under the following conditions:
You can only drive a motor vehicle when accompanied by a qualified supervising driver.
You must not drive or attempt to put a motor vehicle in motion…with any concentration of alcohol in your blood, or the presence of THC (cannabis), Methylamphetamine (speed) or MDMA (Ecstasy) in your blood or saliva.
You must not exceed any speed limit by 10km/h or more.TE]

http://mylicence.sa.gov.au/l_plater

Read some of the hoops learners have to go through elsewhere here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learner%27s_permit



Now. Can someone please explain to me what makes Learner Permit holders in Ireland so special that they feel they can drive alone? You can bet in most of the countries listed they wouldn't get away with it.

rushian

MascotDec85 wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me what makes Learner Permit holders in Ireland so special that they feel they can drive alone? You can bet in most of the countries listed they wouldn't get away with it.

Why do learner permit holders have to feel "special"? Some of us just don't have somebody to accompany us. I don't and will not drive alone because of this law but that does not mean I agree with all aspects of it

MascotDec85

rushian wrote: »

Why do learner permit holders have to feel "special"? Some of us just don't have somebody to accompany us. I don't and will not drive alone because of this law but that does not mean I agree with all aspects of it

I take your point, totally sympathise with you and respect you for upholding it. My points were more aimed at the numerous people disagree with it/don't bother with it etc etc.