What is happening in De la Salle?

CantGetNoSleep

Judging by fb they are blowing money on aquariums and helicopters and sh1t?

fricatus

DLS College or the hurling club?

jayboi

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Judging by fb they are blowing money on aquariums and helicopters and sh1t?

You can never have enough aquariums!

wellboytoo

Sounds like some teachers doing a hatchet job to me, being forced too work and even turn up for class's, what next I ask ya

Faq

Half a mill in debt

deisemum

wellboytoo wrote: »

Sounds like some teachers doing a hatchet job to me, being forced too work and even turn up for class's, what next I ask ya

Yep that's the way I see it. I've got 2 sons there and there's a small number of teachers that keep failing to turn up and teach a lot of their classes, they're always going off on "errands" to the staff room or other rooms unlike the majority of teachers who give a damn and do their job.

When my older boy was in 1st year we were shocked at one particular teacher who might only turn up and teach an average of one out of six classes as he was forever going walkabout and then before exams he'd tell them the questions they'd get in the tests and then give them a random mark. There are a lot of free classes so they get most if not all of their homework done in them and yep it's usually the same teachers not being in the classroom.

Also it's usually the same teachers that repeatedly fail to turn up for the parent teacher meetings, year in year out. They obviously do not want to meet parents.

The principal has my full support in tackling the lazy teachers and I know a lot of other parents who feel the same. He has brought in a lot of positive changes since he took over. Fortunately the majority of teachers that my sons have had over the years do their job and are professional and want their pupils to do well.

cocoshovel

I just heard they are spending a lot of money on decorative items like aquariums and stuff.
Still though, it sounds like a much better school than the one I went to. Would have liked to gone there rather than my old dump of a school. At least de la salle students come out with an education and have a a lot of facilities, rather than just a shed in a field.

SweetCaliber

They spent a little too much on televisions in the classrooms, a massive aquarium, a new computer room, and keycards for students to check in a check out.

God how could they not notice the 500k debt growing in their books? :eek:

longshanks

At a recent meeting...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMf6jKrccpY

decies

Teachers are also teaching subjects they are not qualified in, the school seems to be more concerned about the amount of pupils rather than the quality that enrol there, you can work out your selves whose fault is that. It's all going to end in tears anyway.

deisemum

decies wrote: »

Teachers are also teaching subjects they are not qualified in, the school seems to be more concerned about the amount of pupils rather than the quality that enrol there, you can work out your selves whose fault is that. It's all going to end in tears anyway.

What quality are you refering to? There's a cap put on the number of pupils that the school will take in at first year that wasn't there when my older boy started and I know parents whose children have been refused entry because of numbers.

ziedth

Some of the meme's floating around Facebook are nothing short of stellar

wet-paint

You should see the aquarium though. It's like something out of an Art Deco movie, with dames holding cigarette holders talking with sharp looking mustachio'd men.

cbl593h

Sippo,Joe Spunk,Huey Green et al would be turning in their proverbials......

Jubo

deisemum wrote: »

Yep that's the way I see it. I've got 2 sons there and there's a small number of teachers that keep failing to turn up and teach a lot of their classes, they're always going off on "errands" to the staff room or other rooms unlike the majority of teachers who give a damn and do their job.

The principal has my full support in tackling the lazy teachers and I know a lot of other parents who feel the same. He has brought in a lot of positive changes since he took over. Fortunately the majority of teachers that my sons have had over the years do their job and are professional and want their pupils to do well.

I'm really interested to hear your comments deisemum as my gut instinct was that perhaps the principal was trying to shake things up and implement stuff that perhaps wasn't going down too well. I have one son in there and have always been happy with the majority of teachers but there's a one or two that are so lazy it's mind blowing.

deisemum

Jubo wrote: »

I'm really interested to hear your comments deisemum as my gut instinct was that perhaps the principal was trying to shake things up and implement stuff that perhaps wasn't going down too well. I have one son in there and have always been happy with the majority of teachers but there's a one or two that are so lazy it's mind blowing.

I was talking to a woman I know earlier today and she said her son who's in 1st has an average of 3 free classes per day and that she knows a number of parents who've complained about it to the school. Some teachers have genuine reasons for not being in class such as going with a team to a match or to something like the BT Young Scientist or meeting parents but there are a few who spend a lot of class time in the staff room or go walkabout instead of teaching the classes they're being paid to teach.

The only reason that I can think of why they're objecting to a security camera in the staff room is that they don't want to be caught out dossing in there, a lot of places have cameras in staffrooms/canteens and what's the big deal anyway considering most of the city centre has cameras all round the place. The last company I worked for had cameras in staff rooms and canteens and that was 16 years ago.

When the current principal took over he noticed that the school was short 2 classes per week so that's why the school now finishes at 3.50pm instead of 3.10pm 2 days a week. That's a lot of classes for pupils especially exam class pupils to be down over the course of a school year. I did hear that a few teachers used to use that time to give grinds but don't know if it's true or not.

MitchKoobski

I left just before the new principal came in.

By the time we got to 5th year, nearly half my teachers were putting on extra classes and grinds from 3:10 - 3:50.

I also got the impression that he was trying to shake things up and make a few changes, but students have been asking for new desks since I went into first year, and instead the money is spent on plasma tellys and decor.

From talking to teachers that I've run in to, hes not taking on any of their suggestions and its prompted them to collectively make complaints. I had one or two teachers that would sometimes only be int he class for 5-10 minutes before going somewhere else and coming back at the end. That being said, we'd be given work to do before they went anywhere and it would be checked.

I've been told the current second years have no double classes because theres so much scheduled. The school was overflowing when I was there, and its just gotten bigger and bigger in the last three years.

They had two tuck shops in there on the ground floor and they would rake in the money from it. A couple of months into his first year the new principal had it closed and put in vending machines instead.

Jubo

Mmm yeah I did wonder why there was such a fuss about cameras in the staff room when they are all over the rest of the school anyway. My son also has about 2 or 3 lessons free a day and one teacher is hardly ever there so let's hope if the principal is trying to sort this out that he is left to do it. One of the teachers told his class that a 500 grand deficit is not unusual for a school of that size and it is being blown out of all proportion. I wonder what the situation was before O'Brien took over - would be interesting to know.

Whatsisname

I'm in 6th year in there atm, its a bit of a joke, the teachers got a choice of a plasma screen tv or an interactive whiteboard at the start of 5th year, while the library and majority of classes are still full of 1980's desks, maybe even older than that.

The level of 1st years getting brought in every year gets bigger which leaves them being prioritised over exam students like us 6th years and the 3rd years.

I saw someone mention something about teachers not being qualified to teach the subjects they're teaching, well half of my maths class is currently failing including myself because the teacher hasn't a clue what he's at. He writes the answers up on the board and struggles to explain how he got half of the answers and I've been told he's not qualified to teach LC students either. But along with this, the teachers recently got a choice of a bonus or an iPhone.

I've been told the debt has always been there though and it was just leaked to the press but I don't know where he plans on getting €6million out of for the planned underground carpark and astroturf.

deisemum

MitchKoobski wrote: »

I left just before the new principal came in.

By the time we got to 5th year, nearly half my teachers were putting on extra classes and grinds from 3:10 - 3:50.

I also got the impression that he was trying to shake things up and make a few changes, but students have been asking for new desks since I went into first year, and instead the money is spent on plasma tellys and decor.

From talking to teachers that I've run in to, hes not taking on any of their suggestions and its prompted them to collectively make complaints. I had one or two teachers that would sometimes only be int he class for 5-10 minutes before going somewhere else and coming back at the end. That being said, we'd be given work to do before they went anywhere and it would be checked.

I've been told the current second years have no double classes because theres so much scheduled. The school was overflowing when I was there, and its just gotten bigger and bigger in the last three years.

They had two tuck shops in there on the ground floor and they would rake in the money from it. A couple of months into his first year the new principal had it closed and put in vending machines instead.

That's bull, one of my son's is in 2nd year and has double classes every day.

decies

Good to see the real story that is going on in the school anyway.

deisemum

I think it was a very low act for that minority group of teachers to go to the local newspaper about it. I wonder how they'd like it if a number of parents contacted the media with a list of teachers that are regularly on the doss and not teaching their classes. The more I think about it the more tempted I am to do just that.

One thing I find very unprofessional and something that's been going on for a few months if not longer is the couple of teachers that bitch to their classes about how the school is run. I think it's time I contacted the principal with their names.

MitchKoobski

deisemum wrote: »

I think it was a very low act for that minority group of teachers to go to the local newspaper about it. I wonder how they'd like it if a number of parents contacted the media with a list of teachers that are regularly on the doss and not teaching their classes. The more I think about it the more tempted I am to do just that.

One thing I find very unprofessional and something that's been going on for a few months if not longer is the couple of teachers that bitch to their classes about how the school is run. I think it's time I contacted the principal with their names.

You're kidding right?

No one knows for sure atm who let the 500,000 story out. If it was a group of them then I don't think its a very low act but it certainly wasn't the best thing to do.

If someone rang up a paper and said "These teachers in this school are taking too long breaks and dossing off", they would tell you to bring it to the school principal. Next you'll be ringing up to give names of other students that are on the duck or not doing their homework.

The teachers give their students their opinion and you want to report them for being unprofessional? G'way outta that. The whole time I was there the teachers talked to us on the same level. If the students had a problem with it they'd say something, and if teachers in there had a problem with it they'd say something.

bradknowell

deisemum wrote: »

I think it was a very low act for that minority group of teachers to go to the local newspaper about it. I wonder how they'd like it if a number of parents contacted the media with a list of teachers that are regularly on the doss and not teaching their classes. The more I think about it the more tempted I am to do just that.

Alot of teachers on this site where giving out about ratemytacher.com because students where giving their opinions. In fairness there was a lot of messing on the site but I seen lots of good ratings, some which i would agree with from my time in school.

Royal Legend

deisemum wrote: »

I think it was a very low act for that minority group of teachers to go to the local newspaper about it. I wonder how they'd like it if a number of parents contacted the media with a list of teachers that are regularly on the doss and not teaching their classes. The more I think about it the more tempted I am to do just that.

One thing I find very unprofessional and something that's been going on for a few months if not longer is the couple of teachers that bitch to their classes about how the school is run. I think it's time I contacted the principal with their names.

TBH I have heard this from Pupils in another school in the city, who had at the time a principle that was shaking it up and the teachers did not like it and openly critiscised the principle to pupils, it was disgusting. Thankfully some of the bad apples left, not all of them though. These type of teachers give a bad name to their profession

letsbet

Criticising a school's management or principal in front of students is very unprofessional. Of course pupils won't complain about it. As a pupil or student a teacher or lecturer who complains or gossips about colleages or management will be seen as a sort of cult hero or "on our side" but it's unprofessional in the same way that if you complained to someone working in a restaurant and they said "yeah, I agree it's terrible here, the boss is a right asshole" it's the wrong impression to give to a customer. You're paid to do your job. If you have complaints there should be an official avenue to go through without bitching to the pupils. I have had many reasons to complain about my bosses but would never do so in front of students as it's a cheap shot and easy to win popularity with them but is in my opinion unprofessional. As with third level anyone not turning up to class on a regular basis without a good reason should be dealt with and fired if they don't improve. There's 1000s of teachers looking for work who would gladly be more committed to the job.

Yes Boss

letsbet wrote: »

Criticising a school's management or principal in front of students is very unprofessional. Of course pupils won't complain about it. As a pupil or student a teacher or lecturer who complains or gossips about colleages or management will be seen as a sort of cult hero or "on our side" but it's unprofessional in the same way that if you complained to someone working in a restaurant and they said "yeah, I agree it's terrible here, the boss is a right asshole" it's the wrong impression to give to a customer. You're paid to do your job. If you have complaints there should be an official avenue to go through without bitching to the pupils. I have had many reasons to complain about my bosses but would never do so in front of students as it's a cheap shot and easy to win popularity with them but is in my opinion unprofessional. As with third level anyone not turning up to class on a regular basis without a good reason should be dealt with and fired if they don't improve. There's 1000s of teachers looking for work who would gladly be more committed to the job.

"Fired"...Teacher...:):rolleyes:

Royal Legend

Yes Boss wrote: »

"Fired"...Teacher...:):rolleyes:

I agree there, thats never going to happen to a lazy or useless teacher, as far as I can see, the principles spend as much time treading on eggshells with teachers and threats of union action as they do with the day to day running of a school.
Personally I find that schools look for an easy way out in regards to pupil behaviour with zero tolerance policies as against where you have an underperforming or problematic teacher, as a principle you can not do an awful lot as you have other teachers and teachers unions to contend with
Just a thought, maybe we would be better off if all schools were privatised, at least that way we could send our children to schools where teachers performed properly as against sending children into an abyss of incompetance.

scout353

I know a few people working in there and its not about a minority of teachers getting pissed off cos the principal is trying to get them to work.

It's about the complete an utter failure of the principal to manage the school. To go from a position of being 250k in the black to 500k in the red is nothing about the quality of the teaching - it's about the ability of the manager (in this case the principal).

It seems the recent Dept of Education inspection has highlighted this mismanagement in a huge way and that is why it has found its way into the public domain. Unqualified teachers have been hired by the principal while qualified teachers have been let go. If I had a child there, that's one issue I would like to see addressed. Ridiculous amounts of money have been spent on things like an aquarium, flat screen tv's and the like at the cost of educational provision.

I think when the Dept inspection report is published (it will be online in next couple of months AFAIK) then the truth will be clear to see!

As a final story, I met one teacher there who retired after thirty six years in De La Salle and he told me that the last two were the worst because of the conduct of the principal. It got so bad that they had to have a union meeting in the middle of the summer!

hardybuck

I'm a former student, pre O'Brien era, and the school had plenty of problems then as well, but they may just be a fact of life in secondary schools in general. My parents were particularly unhappy with the setup, and moved me out to a private school after my Junior Cert.

Teacher attendance is a constant issue. While people will become ill occasionally, some of their attitude to attendance was disgraceful. On one occasion I had a free class, and my mother saw the absent teacher doing his shopping at the same time he was supposed to be teaching us.

What compounded matters was that I was on a lot of school teams also. Between being asked to play during school hours several times per month and the teachers being out several times per month, I was missing a lot of classes.

They had other concerns regarding the lack of discipline and the quality of teaching, but high level of absenteeism among teachers was a huge factor in their decision.

hardybuck

For those who work as teachers, or in the civil service as a whole, can any of you provide any insight into the employee performance rating system which was introduced in the last couple of years?

From what I understand, civil servants who receive a poor score do not receive their annual pay increment. Is this system applicable to teachers?

From what I've read in the newspapers, this system is a total farce also, with the vast majority of people getting a high enough score to guarantee their increment, regardless of their performance, which is costing the State way over what it should be, but at least it is a start.

wellboytoo

The New's and Star are not known for their investigative journalism afaik! So this story was given to them in it's entirety by who else but the teachers who are not happy.
I think the above is a fair and valid point.So the teachers or an element of them are not happy with the Principal, and they are not getting the backing of their Union ASTI, so they go a solo route of character assination in the local papers, immaterial to the damage to the schools name.
This is just plain wrong, no other words for it, but revenge is a dish best served cold, they have shot their bolt and now must wait for, and suffer the consequences.

wellboytoo

hardybuck wrote: »

For those who work as teachers, or in the civil service as a whole, can any of you provide any insight into the employee performance rating system which was introduced in the last couple of years?

From what I understand, civil servants who receive a poor score do not receive their annual pay increment. Is this system applicable to teachers?

From what I've read in the newspapers, this system is a total farce also, with the vast majority of people getting a high enough score to guarantee their increment, regardless of their performance, which is costing the State way over what it should be, but at least it is a start.

From a friend of mine working in Social Welfare, " do you think I'm going to give a bad score to the lazy wan in the office and have the union all over my back"

Royal Legend

Like I posted earlier, this is a similar story to that of another city school. At one point the principle let their guard slip with me during a private meeting about my child and said that if he was not seen to back the teachers, that "they would be out at the gates". This particualr principle was hated by the teachers because he would not accept poor standards and lazy teachers.
I am not privy to what is happening in De la salle, but it sounds familiar. If the union is not backing the teachers then in my mond it is plain to see that they are the issue and not the principle. Any teacher or set of teachers that resort to rubbishing the principle to pupils or resort to going underhand to the local papers, then imo what goes around comes around.

nkay1985

While there may be staff who aren't happy about the principal trying to bring in changes, he is surely mismanaging the budget in a major way. They're €500,000 in debt like. I've been told that, since he arrived, there are tvs in hallways, couches bought, a juice bar set up and numerous other extravagances. He surely has a case to answer on all that, no?

I was gone from DLS a while before O'Brien arrived so I don't know the man at all. I'm just going on what I've read online and what I've been told by some people.

Road-Hog

Would be curious to know the 'real story' behind all this, can it really be as simple as a handfull of disgruntled lazy teachers trying to get one over on a principal? Juice bars, leather couches, aquariums, flat screen TV's all seem way over the top when (if it can be believed) unqualified or poorly qualified sub-teachers are routinely used. Also is it true that the number of pupils will soon rise to 1,300 or there abouts up from 1,000 a mere 3-4 years ago. Will there be any progress on the porposed new pitches/carpark project that was put forward a couple of years ago?

deisemum

The school has put a cap of 250 pupils coming in at 1st year and it's been over subscribed for this coming September and some pupils have been refused places. The school is capping the total number of pupils at 1300 and will only take in the same number that leaves. The attic/dormitory was converted into an art room and a smaller room so more classrooms were created.

It is a past pupil that's running the juice bar as his own business and paying something to the school as far as I'm aware of and the canteen was upgraded and making a profit for the school.

I think the car park plans were refused planning permission.

Sully

I found the principal to be very nice, but strict, when he was principal when I was finishing school in Tramore. I found him to have the interests of the school at heart, but tough on unruly students. I don't recall any teaching staff expressing issues with him but maybe I just didn't notice.

It seems he made a solid investment in the school for the pupils and not for himself. I'd have to pat him on the back for making the school a more comfortable learning environment and improving the school overall. It seems he over-spent, but I assume this must have been at the backing by others in the school (surely he wasn't able or allowed go on a solo run?).

I would like to see both sides of the story. I dislike the way the story broke and the way some seem to be out "to get him" (it appears like this) in the school. I'd be surprised if he was the type of guy who wouldn't listen to staff (or the previous board not listening to the staff either) that they had to go and break the story and make sure all the light was on him.

Who knows what the full story is? Will we ever find out? I'd prefer to here both sides, and it looks like the principal doesn't wish to throw any more mud at the school and further erode more of its reputation hence why he wont comment.

AdMMM

I know that in my days in Waterpark, lunchtime meant a sprint down to the Lombard for a battered sausage meal, or maybe Dominos if I had the chance to ring from the toilet before lunch. It sounds as if the principal is getting a real raw deal here. What he has spent the money on seems to be what would make the school a more pleasant environment to learn in. Of course I can see why the teachers are disgruntled after seeing this money spent knowing that their own working conditions are deteriorating but as it's been said, there's a time and a place to raise these issues and going to the local rag isn't that place...

I sure wouldn't want to be a principal!

deisemum

There have been a number of break-ins/attempted break-ins in the school, 3 in one month alone so security/cameras were updated and increased. The school is also home to elderly brothers who are entitled to feel secure in their home yet going on the article in last week's newspaper readers were led to believe the teachers were being spied on.

hardybuck

deisemum wrote: »

There have been a number of break-ins/attempted break-ins in the school, 3 in one month alone so security/cameras were updated and increased. The school is also home to elderly brothers who are entitled to feel secure in their home yet going on the article in last week's newspaper readers were led to believe the teachers were being spied on.

Have they not gone ahead with building a new home for the brothers down by the tennis courts? Would increase their quality of life and free up space in the school.

wellboytoo

deisemum wrote: »

The school is also home to elderly brothers who are entitled to feel secure in their home yet going on the article in last week's newspaper readers were led to believe the teachers were being spied on.

They have to be in the school to spy on them, my lad had four free class's yesterday and he is doing his leaving?

scout353

I would have an issue in my workplace if there was a camera in my staffroom. While there is a case to made for staffrooms with lockers etc, I think it is unacceptable to have it in a room where people take their break!

There is also the dissolving of the Board of Management so there has to be an issue. I know from my time in school, the Board was made up of teacher reps, parent reps and reps from the local community. But if as the paper suggests, the DLS trust is asking the Minister to dissolve the Board, then it must be serious!

Slksht

deisemum wrote: »

I think it was a very low act for that minority group of teachers to go to the local newspaper about it. I wonder how they'd like it if a number of parents contacted the media with a list of teachers that are regularly on the doss and not teaching their classes. The more I think about it the more tempted I am to do just that.

One thing I find very unprofessional and something that's been going on for a few months if not longer is the couple of teachers that bitch to their classes about how the school is run. I think it's time I contacted the principal with their names.

Jesus, are you actually for real?!?! You clearly have no idea what's going on.

He bought an aquariam and re-did an unused entrance for 80k euro, he bought more plasma tvs than you'd see in Harvery Norman and they display nothing of any real significance. One might be decent maybe...

This is not some lazy teachers voicing their outrage over being made to work, if you honestly think it is then you need to seriously think twice. There was a school-wide inspection a couple of months ago which highlighted MASSIVE problems within the school regarding the prinicpal and his dealings with staff.

There are so many things which you seem to be missing, I hope to God most other people know better. This goes wayyyy beyond lazy teachers.

Also, I used to come home and tell my mum that I had loads of free classes and I got almost all of my homework done too... I didn't. Just saying.

Slksht

Here lads, listen. I know from a friend who is very close to the whole thing exactly what is going on... This is not about lazy teachers trying to assasinate his character as someone put it.

He took complete control of the budget and made ludacrous decisions which brought the budget from many thousands in the black to 500k in the red. All of this while still not buying the children you're all banging on about new desks fro Christs sake!

Un-qualified subs are used regularly to teach your children, as well as teachers who do not teach the subject they're being made to. The recruitment of qualified teachers does not reflect the subjects which require the new staff, allowing for both over-timetabling and under-timetabling simultaneously.

The Board of Management is being dissolved for Christ's sake! There is a complete breakdown between the principal and the people he is meant to be managing. This never nearly happened in how many years the Brother's were in charge?

If you plan on writing your letters to Gearóid, maybe you should think about putting some of that into them as well. The review will make for interesting reading for many people who really have no idea what's actually going on up there!

abouttobebanned

Up Mount Sion! We hadn't a gant.

wellboytoo

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Up Mount Sion! We hadn't a gant.

I went there and have the scars to prove it.

Professey Chin

wellboytoo wrote: »

I went there and have the scars to prove it.

Good old primary school desks, holes in every ceiling and no PE :pac:

letsbet

At least all this talk about the inadequacies of the school and its facilities might mean that it won't be over-subscribed over the next few years!

waherford

Going by the newspaper reports the and comments in this thread the whole school evaluation was highly critical of the school, does anyone know when was the last evaluation was carried out? How does it compare to this one? Is the school getting better or worse under the new principle? Similarly, what standard was the building and equipment kept at by his predecessor.


In the news and star article one of the bits that I found interesting was where they say he spent 1 million doing up the school €500,000 of which is still outstanding. If he is only in there a few years and already has half the money paid back then whats the big deal? I did a quick google and found this http://www.asti.ie/?id=347 it says schools get a per capita grant of €345, multiply that by 1300 students and you get €450,000. With that sort of money they'll pay off the debt in a year or two.

cocoshovel

letsbet wrote: »

At least all this talk about the inadequacies of the school and its facilities might mean that it won't be over-subscribed over the next few years!

What inadequacies does it have exactly? It sounds like it has amazing facilities. In my school we didnt even have enough seats for everybody and non of the desks were screwed into the frames, often just thrown around in the corner like a wood pile.