Alot of good jobs being created recently, reminds me of 1999

darkman2

I have to say while alot talk of gloom the spate of high quality job announcements is like something from the height of the Celtic Tiger. This week alone saw Apple, Cisco, SAP and Groupon establishing it's Euro HQ here. The week before there was Mylan and quite a few other notable tech investments. But since the start of the year it's been a flood of good news on the non property related job front. I think we have genuinely turned a corner. It does remind me of the late 90's technology investments in Ireland. Back then it was 1,000 jobs a week. We can't be far off that right now. Hopefully it continues.

And of course due to the multiplier effect I think each job leads to 1.8 other jobs in shops and other businesses?

It's alot better then during the mad property boom years from 2003 when announcements like these were very few and far between.

Delancey

Indeed it is good news , though without a significant upturn in domestic consumption ( unlikely in the foreseeable future ) I fear that unemployment willl remain stubbornly high.
That said , success begets success and one must hope that these latest job announcements are a sign of things to come.

Duiske

darkman2 wrote: »

Back then it was 1,000 jobs a week. We can't be far off that right now. Hopefully it continues.

As Delancy say's, the domestic economy is still in tatters. There's no getting away from the fact that 14% unemployment is a huge drain on state coffers, but whats exacerbating the problem is that the 86% of the workforce who are in employment just do not have the confidence to spend. They instead choose to save for the rainy day which seems to them to be looming around the corner.
You would expect new job announcements to help improve confidence, but people can see that redundancies still exceed new jobs. Were it not for emigration, the unemployed figure would probably still be rising.
The Government need to get the finger out and tell people how much water charges, property tax's, future income tax rises etc are going to cost them. This fear of the unknown is a big factor in the lack of confidence.

femur61

Is 14% a true reflectionn of the unemployed if you are/were self employed i.e construction, you can't get SW.

theg81der

Also another problem - we don`t have alot of bilingual IT grads floating around to fill the jobs.

henryporter

Duiske wrote: »

As Delancy say's, the domestic economy is still in tatters. There's no getting away from the fact that 14% unemployment is a huge drain on state coffers, but whats exacerbating the problem is that the 86% of the workforce who are in employment just do not have the confidence to spend. They instead choose to save for the rainy day which seems to them to be looming around the corner.
You would expect new job announcements to help improve confidence, but people can see that redundancies still exceed new jobs. Were it not for emigration, the unemployed figure would probably still be rising.
The Government need to get the finger out and tell people how much water charges, property tax's, future income tax rises etc are going to cost them. This fear of the unknown is a big factor in the lack of confidence.

Hard to save for a rainy day when the high cost of basic living combined with ever increasing taxation and levies leaves you with feck all at the end of every month.

femur61 wrote: »

Is 14% a true reflectionn of the unemployed if you are/were self employed i.e construction, you can't get SW.

I was self employed, worked in construction but got off my backside and retrained in software so I'm a bit fed up hearing that excuse. No point in saying I'm a construction worker but there's no jobs for me, therefore I just won't bother trying something new. Besides some of those vacancies in software also require construction of facilities so there is some work there.

MysticalRain

I think what we will be seeing for the next few years will be very much a two tier economy. The economy has certainly have turned a corner for people who happen to work in the high tech, export-led sector. But for most other people, it will still be austerity for years to come. The Smart Economy only represents a small fraction of the workforce, so it alone will never be enough to pull the entire economy out of recession.

thebman

theg81der wrote: »

Also another problem - we don`t have alot of bilingual IT grads floating around to fill the jobs.

That is only a small section of the IT jobs out there but no reason why Irish people can't learn foreign languages to get the job.

Few IT job that requires a foreign language are going to have you fusing circuit boards or writing code in most cases assuming it isn't localization work.

Those are just basic Tech Support jobs that require a foreign language. You'd probably be given the script, you just have to be able to understand what the person on the other side of the phone is saying too or have a basic IT knowledge to be able to assign the problems to the relevant people in the company and see them to resolution.

theg81der

Doing an IT HDip right now so you don`t need to tell me. When looking at available jobs I can`t help but notice the number looking for bilingual employees in the sector, I will try to learn a language but its not my strong point.

darkman2

I know there is a tendency with people in the country to have to sight bad news when good news is pointed out. No problem with that but I see this for what it is. It's great news and it's also construction jobs. A number of new builds needed in the next couple of months by Intel, Apple and BNY Melon amongst others. And given what I said each multinational job has a multiplier on retail and services. So I see it for what it is, good news notwithstanding everything else. It has not all been tech job announcements either.

theg81der

Ok its good news to an extent but they will be filling alot of these vacancies with immigrants there was a story in the paper few weeks ago about the number of application because companies are saying they can`t meet the requirements for IT with languages nationally.

VW 1

darkman2 wrote: »

I know there is a tendency with people in the country to have to sight bad news when good news is pointed out. No problem with that but I see this for what it is. It's great news and it's also construction jobs. A number of new builds needed in the next couple of months by Intel, Apple and BNY Melon amongst others. And given what I said each multinational job has a multiplier on retail and services. So I see it for what it is, good news notwithstanding everything else. It has not all been tech job announcements either.

Any info on the BNY Mellon project? As far as I was previously aware there were 4 sites within 10 minutes of the city centre under consideration but I haven't heard of an advancement in plans since then, around 4 months ago at this stage.

darkman2

VW 1 wrote: »

Any info on the BNY Mellon project? As far as I was previously aware there were 4 sites within 10 minutes of the city centre under consideration but I haven't heard of an advancement in plans since then, around 4 months ago at this stage.

Yes they have narrowed their options to 2 (new build) sites. Announcement due.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/commercialproperty/2012/0502/1224315448220.html

Delancey

femur61 wrote: »

Is 14% a true reflectionn of the unemployed if you are/were self employed i.e construction, you can't get SW.

The Live Register is accepted by all as not being an accurate measure of unemployment due to the fact that part time workers can still sign on . The accurate measure is the Quarterly Household Survey by the CSO.

darkman2

darkman2 wrote: »

Back then it was 1,000 jobs a week. We can't be far off that right now. Hopefully it continues.

We were also growing very fast back then. Recently we went back into negative growth!

Bringing down the unemployment level to full employment would take years at even boom time type growth rates.

Okun`s Law and the Okun coefficient are worth googling for those who dont know about it or havent studied Labour economics in secondary or third level.

Definition of 'Okun's Law'
The relationship between an economy's unemployment rate and its gross national product (GNP). Twentieth-century economist Arthur Okun developed this idea, which states that when unemployment falls by 1%, GNP rises by 3%. However, the law only holds true for the U.S. economy, and only applies when the unemployment rate falls between 3-7.5%. Other version of Okun's Law focus on a relationship between unemployment and GDP, whereby a percentage increase in unemployment causes a 2% fall in GDP.

Okun Coefficient
The percentage by which GNP changes when unemployment changes by 1% is called the "Okun coefficient". Industrialized nations with labor markets that are less flexible than those of the United States, such as France and Germany, tend to have higher Okun coefficients. In those countries, the same percentage change in GNP has a smaller effect on the unemployment rate than it does in the United States.

Read more: Okun's Law Definition | Investopedia



Other things to google if your interested are: Non accelerating rate of Unemployment, Phillips Curve.

darkman2

All I am saying is it is better having these jobs coming in then not coming in. I am a consumer and it makes me that little more confident and and that's what it is about for the domestic economy.

I can guarantee you Portugal, Greece and Spain would give their right arm right now for the dynamic as a proportion of size that Ireland currently has with multinationals in terms of job creation. I think it's great. And each job is more then likely a family or a first time buyer. It will feed in to stabilising the property market too. Once the property market is stable - and there are tentative signs that it is starting to get up off the floor - then we can see construction workers gradually gain employment again over time.

All I am saying is don't ignore the good side of things. Life is too short to be depressed:)

Property market? The lower it goes the more competitive we become. Let it drop!
Property prices coming down have been a great thing! It is why we have multinational interest here!
Nothing depressing about that. Funding a floor under the property market using taxpayers money is depressing.

Fine Gael and Labour are simply following in Fianna Fail & The Greens footsteps. What is happening now is little different were either of those parties in power. They are all as crap as each other. Any boost in economic activity is in spite of those creeps and well done to the Irish individuals doing it.

We still have years to go to come out of this and with years of austerity ahead of us it would be wrong to think we are somehow on the verge of a boom like in 1999.

femur61

henryporter wrote: »

I was self employed, worked in construction but got off my backside and retrained in software so I'm a bit fed up hearing that excuse. No point in saying I'm a construction worker but there's no jobs for me, therefore I just won't bother trying something new. Besides some of those vacancies in software also require construction of facilities so there is some work there.

Good for you. But please ask yourself why a lot of people become construction workers and don't be so patronising. My husband takes on a lot of apprentices and believe me the reason they are working in a trade is because they are not academic. Not everyone is as bright as you and able to retrain, I'm sure they would if they could. They have no finanical rewards by sitting on thier backside as they are not entitled to any benefits.

ardmacha

In 1999 we were not on the verge of a boom, but in the middle of one. We are not in 1999, more like the early 90s, when there were green shoots, but unemployment remained high.

While we may not get a boom like then, we will get an improvement. Construction, for instance, is now at a very low level, it will inevitably return to typical European levels, which would be doubling its present level and which would knock 2-3% off unemployment levels, bringing into employment those who might not get jobs in these IT multinationals. Likewise even a modest improvement would bring some more jobs in retail etc.

The missing ingredient for even this improvement is a stabilisation of things internationally. When everyone is calling for cuts, more taxes etc, even those with money are (wisely) refraining from spending it, until things settle down.

Duiske

henryporter wrote: »

Hard to save for a rainy day when the high cost of basic living combined with ever increasing taxation and levies leaves you with feck all at the end of every month.

Not every worker is left with "feck all" at the end of the month. I'd imagine that the percentage of the workforce who have at least some cash left over for discretionary spending is fairly high.

Delancey

Duiske wrote: »

Not every worker is left with "feck all" at the end of the month. I'd imagine that the percentage of the workforce who have at least some cash left over for discretionary spending is fairly high.

Perhaps, though I would argue that the amount available for discretionary spending is falling . The latest figures which show that savings are increasing markedly suggests little consumer confidence.

Construction workers are doubtless making up a significant proportion of the long-term unemployed and this is no surprise .
The much - maligned FAS published a report circa 2004 / 2005 which gave the alarming statistic that 1/3 of recent male school leavers had taken apprenticeships in the construction sector. The report warned that the boom could not continue and the country risked a future structural employment problem in relation to these lads - chickens have certainly come home to roost on that score.

murphaph

Delancey wrote: »

Perhaps, though I would argue that the amount available for discretionary spending is falling . The latest figures which show that savings are increasing markedly suggests little consumer confidence.

Increasing savings means that people do have discretionary expenditure available to them at the end of the month, they are just choosing not to spend it, rather to save it.

This mentality served Germany well enough down the years. An Ireland with a subdued domestic economy is a cheaper place to do business and one more heavily reliant on exports-good things for a small open economy.

Delancey

murphaph wrote: »

This mentality served Germany well enough down the years. An Ireland with a subdued domestic economy is a cheaper place to do business and one more heavily reliant on exports-good things for a small open economy.

Valid point alright though I think nobody would disagree with the view our domestic economy is too subdued right now , until consumers start spending again we will not see any appreciable fall in unemployment.

Cork boy 55

Delancey wrote: »

Perhaps, though I would argue that the amount available for discretionary spending is falling . The latest figures which show that savings are increasing markedly suggests little consumer confidence.

Construction workers are doubtless making up a significant proportion of the long-term unemployed and this is no surprise .
The much - maligned FAS published a report circa 2004 / 2005 which gave the alarming statistic that 1/3 of recent male school leavers had taken apprenticeships in the construction sector. The report warned that the boom could not continue and the country risked a future structural employment problem in relation to these lads - chickens have certainly come home to roost on that score.

And who was minister for Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (2004–08) ?

Micheál Martin

How he is still a free man is beyond me?

AlekSmart

darkman2 wrote: »

It will feed in to stabilising the property market too. Once the property market is stable - and there are tentative signs that it is starting to get up off the floor - then we can see construction workers gradually gain employment again over time.

All I am saying is don't ignore the good side of things. Life is too short to be depressed:)

Darkman2,I Totally agree on the "Life too short for Depression" sentiment.

However as I see it the "Stabilizing " of the property "market" is one of the very definite means of ensuring that depression remains the identifying mark of the Irish.

The purchased property "market" really needs to keep falling in order to get things down to a level of sustainability in relation to the relationship between Irish People and Property Ownership

Current Government policy appears to cling to the old mantra of an "upswing" in property values being a Good-Thing for Ireland Teo.

I would much rather a Government policy to explain to the young Knowledgable,highly qualified Irish population that a happy,productive and rewarding life need not be predicated upon OWNING ones own home,or indeed any property.

The overriding need is for Irish Administrators to get real on the issue of legislation governing Private Resedential Rentals.

This needs firstly,to entail the removal of the "Stigma" asociated with long-term rental of one's own home and the realization that home OWNERSHIP now and in the future will entail a range on ongoing and expensive service taxes,charges and fees associated with this lifestyle decision.

Regularization of long-term resedential lettings,coupled with a State Overseen system to ensure fairness and security for both Landlord and Tenant should be the priority.

Instead we are hearing the usual oul blather about property ladders,a "place of your own" and all the other oul nonsense that has enslaved a generation of people who otherwise would be debt-free and mobile !!!

liammur

AlekSmart wrote: »

Darkman2,I Totally agree on the "Life too short for Depression" sentiment.

However as I see it the "Stabilizing " of the property "market" is one of the very definite means of ensuring that depression remains the identifying mark of the Irish.

The purchased property "market" really needs to keep falling in order to get things down to a level of sustainability in relation to the relationship between Irish People and Property Ownership

Current Government policy appears to cling to the old mantra of an "upswing" in property values being a Good-Thing for Ireland Teo.

I would much rather a Government policy to explain to the young Knowledgable,highly qualified Irish population that a happy,productive and rewarding life need not be predicated upon OWNING ones own home,or indeed any property.

The overriding need is for Irish Administrators to get real on the issue of legislation governing Private Resedential Rentals.

This needs firstly,to entail the removal of the "Stigma" asociated with long-term rental of one's own home and the realization that home OWNERSHIP now and in the future will entail a range on ongoing and expensive service taxes,charges and fees associated with this lifestyle decision.

Regularization of long-term resedential lettings,coupled with a State Overseen system to ensure fairness and security for both Landlord and Tenant should be the priority.

Instead we are hearing the usual oul blather about property ladders,a "place of your own" and all the other oul nonsense that has enslaved a generation of people who otherwise would be debt-free and mobile !!!

Owning your home is a good thing, provided it's not at 10 * earnings. The traditional 3 * earnings and I think one would be foolish not to buy.

senordingdong

Duiske wrote: »

You would expect new job announcements to help improve confidence, but people can see that redundancies still exceed new jobs. Were it not for emigration, the unemployed figure would probably still be rising.
The Government need to get the finger out and tell people how much water charges, property tax's, future income tax rises etc are going to cost them. This fear of the unknown is a big factor in the lack of confidence.

This is it, I, like everybody else am not running out to upgrade to the new ipod or software. What little I have to spare will no doubht be devoured with some new charge within a year.

liammur

senordingdong wrote: »

This is it, I, like everybody else am not running out to upgrade to the new ipod or software. What little I have to spare will no doubht be devoured with some new charge within a year.

This may be the case, but the OP is correct. The new jobs will create a spend in say Galway where a lot of the jobs have been created. The problem is, in most parts of the country these jobs aren't coming in, and the typical consumer has little if any disposable income

darkman2

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/potential-for-100-jobs-as-total-defense-opens-dublin-office-443184-May2012/?utm_source=shortlink


100 tech jobs to start the working week.

kyle123

if only it was 99 again lol i could look forward to my house going up in value lol

liammur

darkman2 wrote: »

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/potential-for-100-jobs-as-total-defense-opens-dublin-office-443184-May2012/?utm_source=shortlink


100 tech jobs to start the working week.

I see even Limerick got 35 jobs today, something is surely up!

alot of THESE kind of "jobs" being created
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0509/jobsbridge-internship-economy.html

1,000 extra places announced for National Internship Scheme

Almost 7,000 internships have been provided in the past ten months, the majority by private sector employers.

Based on the success of the scheme, Minister for Social Protection Joan Burton has decided to increase the number of places with immediate effect.

djpbarry

darkman2 wrote: »

I have to say while alot talk of gloom the spate of high quality job announcements is like something from the height of the Celtic Tiger. This week alone saw Apple, Cisco, SAP and Groupon establishing it's Euro HQ here.

The Irish tech sector has been slowly growing under the radar for quite a while now, but people have generally been too busy moaning about banks, the IMF and water charges to notice. It is good news and long may it continue.

However, as has been pointed out, even with this growth in job creation, it is still going to be very difficult to reduce unemployment given the high number of people on the dole with non-transferable skills – there are a lot of people in Ireland in need of further education/training.

Secondly, I’d like to see more growth in indigenous industry. Not out of some nationalistic desire to see Irish people work for Irish economies, but to render Ireland’s smart economy truly sustainable.

darkman2 wrote: »

It has not all been tech job announcements either.

That’s an important point – tech companies need more than just tech workers.

djpbarry

henryporter wrote: »

Hard to save for a rainy day when the high cost of basic living...

High cost of living relative to where? It seems to be just generally accepted by many that Ireland is really expensive, but I rarely, if ever, see anyone produce any evidence to support this belief.

henryporter wrote: »

I was self employed, worked in construction but got off my backside and retrained in software...

Fair play – I hope the hard work pays off for you (I’m sure it will eventually).

djpbarry

MysticalRain wrote: »

The Smart Economy only represents a small fraction of the workforce...

Actually it represents a pretty sizeable chunk of Ireland’s exports.

theg81der wrote: »

Ok its good news to an extent but they will be filling alot of these vacancies with immigrants...

Probably, but it doesn’t matter – more people working means more consumers and more jobs.

Deleted User wrote: »

Fine Gael and Labour are simply following in Fianna Fail & The Greens footsteps.

By increasing public spending and eroding the tax base?

femur61 wrote: »

Not everyone is as bright as you and able to retrain, I'm sure they would if they could.

So the typical construction worker is only capable of learning one job in their lifetime? And you accuse others of being patronising?

Duiske wrote: »

I'd imagine that the percentage of the workforce who have at least some cash left over for discretionary spending is fairly high.

I would be inclined to agree - average gross incomes in Ireland are still pretty high and the cost of housing has dropped fairly substantially.

liammur wrote: »

Owning your home is a good thing...

There are pros and cons to ownership, just like there are pros and cons to renting. One is not inherently better than the other.

liammur

djpbarry wrote: »

Actually it represents a pretty sizeable chunk of Ireland’s exports.
Probably, but it doesn’t matter – more people working means more consumers and more jobs.
By increasing public spending and eroding the tax base?
So the typical construction worker is only capable of learning one job in their lifetime? And you accuse others of being patronising?
I would be inclined to agree - average gross incomes in Ireland are still pretty high and the cost of housing has dropped fairly substantially.
There are pros and cons to ownership, just like there are pros and cons to renting. One is not inherently better than the other.

Few should argue in favour of renting a home instead of owning a home. The real argument should be: when should one buy.

djpbarry

liammur wrote: »

Few should argue in favour of renting a home instead of owning a home. The real argument should be: when should one buy.

That suggests that one must wait until certain criteria are met before buying...

...which suggests that that there are times during which those criteria are not met and one should not buy, but rent...

...which suggests that there is an argument to be made in favour of renting instead of owning.

darkman2

Another 80 jobs:)

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0509/breaking9.html

ardmacha

Another 80 jobs

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...breaking9.html

sure only nerds would get the likes of those jobs....

skafish

liammur wrote: »

I see even Limerick got 35 jobs today, something is surely up!

As I heard it, these Limerick jobs will not all be in place for up to 5 years:mad:
Still, its all good news.

I'm not fully up to speed on economics, but I find it hard to understand how one job creats up to 1.8 others. One extra job downstream of 3 or 4 would make sence to me: 15 or 20% of income spent in local economy = increased work/business in local shops/filling stations etc. = new jobs created in these businesses.
I would be greatful for any information

darkman2

220 jobs for Galway:)

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0509/aviva-to-shed-far-fewer-jobs-than-anticipated.html

djpbarry

darkman2 wrote: »

220 jobs for Galway:)

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0509/aviva-to-shed-far-fewer-jobs-than-anticipated.html

Yeah, but it's raining.

thebman

Apparently hiring is up 20% according to RTE Morning Ireland.

liammur

skafish wrote: »

As I heard it, these Limerick jobs will not all be in place for up to 5 years:mad:
Still, its all good news.

I'm not fully up to speed on economics, but I find it hard to understand how one job creats up to 1.8 others. One extra job downstream of 3 or 4 would make sence to me: 15 or 20% of income spent in local economy = increased work/business in local shops/filling stations etc. = new jobs created in these businesses.
I would be greatful for any information

Limerick must be averaging 50 new jobs every year since 1997. No one can accuse our politicians of 'parish pump' politicis anyway .
The big problem is thousands have been lost.

When Dell downsized they said it was 3 or 4 lost for every Dell job, but there was a key factor in that, many other companies like Banta which had 400-500 employees totally depended on Dell and closed immediately. This added to the carnage.

liammur

djpbarry wrote: »

That suggests that one must wait until certain criteria are met before buying...

...which suggests that that there are times during which those criteria are not met and one should not buy, but rent...

...which suggests that there is an argument to be made in favour of renting instead of owning.

Of course there are times when one should wait, hence the real argument is when to buy. Almost everybody rents at some stage. Some rent longer than others, but that's fine.

murphaph

thebman wrote: »

Apparently hiring is up 20% according to RTE Morning Ireland.

Wonder how long it'll be before SIPTU etc. are screaming for benchmarking :rolleyes:

Unions don't give a sh!t about these types of high tech jobs because they usually aren't unionised and cn't contribute to the Mercs for the top brass.

djpbarry

liammur wrote: »

Of course there are times when one should wait, hence the real argument is when to buy. Almost everybody rents at some stage. Some rent longer than others, but that's fine.

There are plenty of crazy mofos in countries outside Ireland who never buy! The psychosis of needing to buy property is a peculiar Irish phenomenon.

BeeDI

thebman wrote: »

Apparently hiring is up 20% according to RTE Morning Ireland.

And if RTE said it, you can take it as gospel. Sources have been checked and verified. The editorial team has reviewed the facts. All is above board. Put it out there in the public domain, in the interests of the nation.:D

Degsy

djpbarry wrote: »

Secondly, I’d like to see more growth in indigenous industry. Not out of some nationalistic desire to see Irish people work for Irish economies, but to render Ireland’s smart economy truly sustainable.
That’s an important point – tech companies need more than just tech workers.

And its not all about tech business either..we hould be creating indiginous jobs in a host of other sectors..retail,maunfacturing,agriculture,green energy projects,hospitality and tourism.

Remember..foreign multinationals can and will up sticks and bugger off pretty much when they feel like it.

Degsy

murphaph wrote: »

Wonder how long it'll be before SIPTU etc. are screaming for benchmarking :rolleyes:

Unions don't give a sh!t about these types of high tech jobs because they usually aren't unionised and cn't contribute to the Mercs for the top brass.

Ignorance is bliss eh?

What does SIPTU stand for?

Services

Industrial

Professional

Technical

Union.




Seeing as its the largest PRIVATE SECTOR union in ireland.:rolleyes:

djpbarry

Degsy wrote: »

Remember..foreign multinationals can and will up sticks and bugger off pretty much when they feel like it.

Some can, some can't. Intel, for example, have made a significant capital investment in Leixlip - shifting that elsewhere would be a pretty mighty task.