Draft Grades Bengals

neilster

does anyone else have views on teams overall draft grades ?

My how the Bengals had an awesome draft , when you see they were a playoff team already even if fortuitously to then add the talent they did

Secondary - Beefing it up with a CB Dre Kirkpatrick & CB Shaun Prater and S George Illoka (with a returning Leon Hall from injured reserve)

O- Line - a very reasonable OG Zeitler (slight reach maybe)

D-Line - an underestimated DT Devon Still who could still make Brockers & Poe picks look foolish along with a 2nd round talent picked in the 3rd in DT Brandon Thompson

TE - a steal in Orson Charles in the 4th

WR & RB - a 2nd rounder picked in the 3rd for Mohammed Sanu , a falling Marvin Jones who has 4th rd talent in the 5th and Dan Herron RB in the 6th

awesome

here is the BleachReport grade


"Cincinnati Bengals: A+




Round 1, Pick 17: CB Dre Kirkpatrick

He's one of the top players left in the draft and is a better fit for Mike Zimmer's defense than Stephon Gilmore would have been. Kirkpatrick will be an instant starter and should help the secondary out instantly. Kirkpatrick is a pro-ready corner who will give them a tougher secondary this year. He should be able to start on the left side with Leon Hall as his compliment on the right side.
Grade: A+

Cincinnati trades first-round pick (No. 21 overall) to New England for first-round pick (No. 27 overall) and third-round pick (No. 93 overall)
It's always smart to trade down and pick up a third-round pick if you think you can still get your guy.
Grade: A

Round 1, Pick 27: OG Kevin Zeitler
Zeitler is a great fit for the offense that the Bengals run and Zeitler should slide right in between Smith and Cook.
Zeitler is a true pounding offensive guard and should be able to add to the run blocking in Cincinnati, but his pass blocking will also help protect last year's second-round pick in Andy Dalton. With more time, Dalton to A.J. Green will be a scary combination in 2012.
Grade: A

Round 2, Pick 22: DT Devin Still

Devon Still is a great pick for the Bengals.
He will start at the 3-tech right away and help not just against the pass, but also against the run. He will compliment Domata Peko and Geno Atkins perfectly and should be able to push the pockets like the best of them.
Grade: A+

Round 3, Pick 20: WR Mohamed Sanu

Sanu can compliment A.J. Green from the slot or opposite him.
Grade: A+

Round 3, Pick 30: DT Brandon Thompson

Thompson is a second-round talent and will give the Bengals a nasty defensive tackle rotation.
Grade: A+

Round 4, Pick 21: TE Orson Charles

Charles and the Bengals get the perfect scenario. He doesn't have to be the top TE and can be used as an H-back role.
Grade: A

Round 5, Pick 21: CB Shaun Prater

This is a fourth round value player in the fifth and someone who will add depth at corner. Good pick.
Grade: A

Round 5, Pick 31: WR Marvin Jones

Marvin Jones is a great fit for the Bengals offense. He can help them as an outside receiver, so they can use Sanu in the slot.
Grade: A+

Round 5, Pick 32: S George Iloka

The Bengals get yet another great defensive pick here. Iloka can play either free safety or strong safety and is one of the better coverage players in the draft.
Grade: A+

Round 6, Pick 21: RB Dan Herron

Herron is a good, pounding running back who can help shoulder some of the load that Cedric Benson left.
Grade: A
"

Hulk Hands

How are you rating zeitler as an A pick when you concede its a reach? It's closer to a D grade imo. Didn't like their first round, thought they should've came away with better considering the 2 picks and where they got them. The rest of the draft was very good, but overall its being slightly overrated in the media

CoachTO

Would this thread not be better just called Draft grades and then everyone can grade their own team rather than having loads of threads for each team?

Syferus

And they added Vontaze Burfict as a FA. Suits their MO, they know how to deal with 'problem' players better than any other team. Burfict has huge up-side for a FA and the Bengals have very little to lose.

neilster

Hulk Hands wrote: »

How are you rating zeitler as an A pick when you concede its a reach? It's closer to a D grade imo. Didn't like their first round, thought they should've came away with better considering the 2 picks and where they got them. The rest of the draft was very good, but overall its being slightly overrated in the media

Not my grade ...i thought thats explained ...its Bleacherreport

But Zeitler suits their run-blocking scheme more than some of the other choices like Silatalu or Osemele or Glenn....Cordy Glenn was the steal of the draft for the Bills but every other team passed too .....its a reach compared to what is on the board but Zeitler was grading into that area with some teams ....its certainly not a D grade

The rest of their draft is strong , very strong

Lets compare it to the Patriots draft , their big weakness ...not having a defence that can rush the passer or get teams off the field and a secondary that gets burned with an untouched passer (like a more talented Dallas)

Pick 1 : Move up for Chandler Jones when Whitney Mercilus (sack specialist) , Nick Perry (3-4 & 4-3 versatility) or Courtney Upshaw (High Motor OLB 3-4) were all on the board

Pick 2 : Move up for Hightower , this is better pick , he joins Spikes and Mayo in a 3-4 and joins Spikes against the run and Mayo against the pass in the 4-3 but where is the rushing the passer . People criticise Irvin to Seattle but he was picked too high but he gets after the passer which is what Seattle needed. Will Hightower & Jones get sacks ?

(Contrast this to the Packers my pick to meet New England in the SuperBowl. Their chief weaknesses are no sack production apart from Clay Matthews and a secondary that gets burned similarly . They pick Perry who was in my own top 10 and Jerel Worthy who equals the untapped potential of Brockers & Poe with real production . They then picked Casey Heyward at CB .)

Pick 3 S Tavon Wilson , like the Gregory signing in the summer , this guy is a depth pick when maybe a George Iloka could be picked . This guy is a bust basically

Pick 4 Jake Bequette DE - a solid pick but too late in the draft for the real good guys

Pick 5 Nate Ebner S - a pick for depth so little risk

Pick 6 Alfonzo Dennard CB - this is a Brandon Merriweather like pick . He has undeniable talent but he seems to be spiralling out of control , it may be the steal of this group however

Pick 7 WR Jeremy Ebert - with the stockpile of recievers doesnt make sense

This is a very dodgy draft and seems to be hoping for pass rushing and good coverage instead of guaranteeing it . The Pats passed up Worthy , Still , Perry , Mercilus , Branch , Thompson & others along with Janoris Jenkins , Casey Heyward & others ...puzzling

neilster

CoachTO wrote: »

Would this thread not be better just called Draft grades and then everyone can grade their own team rather than having loads of threads for each team?

was trying to edit thread and couldnt ?

its a good idea ....not just our own teams but all teams

CoachTO

neilster wrote: »

Lets compare it to the Patriots draft , their big weakness ...not having a defence that can rush the passer or get teams off the field and a secondary that gets burned with an untouched passer (like a more talented Dallas)

So wait are these your own views or did you nab them from the internet?

Pick 1 : Move up for Chandler Jones when Whitney Mercilus (sack specialist) , Nick Perry (3-4 & 4-3 versatility) or Courtney Upshaw (High Motor OLB 3-4) were all on the board

Its all about system and wants and Jones was high up on the Pats board it seems and many before the draft had him go to the Pats even with the mystery that is Bill and his drafting methods. Jones is exactly what the Pats need and would suggest a move back to the 3-4. But even if we don't Jones is versaitaile and is an good coverage guy also.

Pick 2 : Move up for Hightower , this is better pick , he joins Spikes and Mayo in a 3-4 and joins Spikes against the run and Mayo against the pass in the 4-3 but where is the rushing the passer . People criticise Irvin to Seattle but he was picked too high but he gets after the passer which is what Seattle needed. Will Hightower & Jones get sacks ?

Jones will be a bigger impact than Hightower.

Pick 3 S Tavon Wilson , like the Gregory signing in the summer , this guy is a depth pick when maybe a George Iloka could be picked . This guy is a bust basically

Calling a bust before the season even starts yeah alright dude seems you are heavily influenced by what you read. With Wilson the Pats get another Versataile guy and the way we have been hitting the FA and shaking up our secondary Wilson has the opportunity to fit in and be developed by BB. Besides Bill obviously sees something no one else does. But to call him a bust is stupid at best.

Pick 7 WR Jeremy Ebert - with the stockpile of recievers doesnt make sense

Ebert has talent and no harm taking a low risk pick to see if he can do any good. Low picks don't have to make sense and Ebert showed talent in College and you never know that low risk could turn trumps.

Pick 4 Jake Bequette DE - a solid pick but too late in the draft for the real good guys

Pick 5 Nate Ebner S - a pick for depth so little risk

Pick 6 Alfonzo Dennard CB - this is a Brandon Merriweather like pick . He has undeniable talent but he seems to be spiralling out of control , it may be the steal of this group however



This is a very dodgy draft and seems to be hoping for pass rushing and good coverage instead of guaranteeing it . The Pats passed up Worthy , Still , Perry , Mercilus , Branch , Thompson & others along with Janoris Jenkins , Casey Heyward & others ...puzzling

Dodgy draft though? :rolleyes: You are the only one saying that. Throughout most of the so called experts the Pats draft has been given an A. As for the puzzling bit Jones was 4-5th on most peoples rankings of End in the draft. Of all the guys you mentioned only 3 of them were ranked higher and even then as I said earlier Jones must have ranked higher in the Pats mind. It mad how you can summise it as puzzling.

JaMarcus Hustle

Neilster in anti-Patriots post shocker!

You've also yet to answer why a few hours before the draft, you mocked Hightower to the Steelers at 24, yet when the Patriots draft him at 25, he's suddenly a reach.

neilster

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

Neilster in anti-Patriots post shocker!

You've also yet to answer why a few hours before the draft, you mocked Hightower to the Steelers at 24, yet when the Patriots draft him at 25, he's suddenly a reach.

JaMarcus in post-SuperBowl oversensitive shocker ....if you see i tip them for the SuperBowl btw ...a bit kind for a hater and you misquote me ....i dont call Hightower a reach ...Jones is a reach

this is what i said "Move up for Hightower , this is better pick , he joins Spikes and Mayo in a 3-4 and joins Spikes against the run and Mayo against the pass in the 4-3 but where is the rushing the passer . People criticise Irvin to Seattle but he was picked too high but he gets after the passer which is what Seattle needed. Will Hightower & Jones get sacks ?"

but seeing that you bring up Hightower , Kuechly went significantly higher and Hightower had started to sound like a top 15 pick , its telling that the Steelers went with Sean Spence further down the draft rather than Hightower ? BB knows what he is doing but in Farrior , Timmons etc the Steelers know the position and they passed . Im not saying i agree with them but it bears thinking about but Hightwower is a safe pick . Im not sold on Jones

CoachTO

neilster wrote: »

.i dont call Hightower a reach ...Jones is a reach

Im not sold on Jones

How is Jones a reach? Most mocks had him go before the or around the Pats pick when they moved up. But just because you are personally not sold on Jones doesn't make him worse than the other guys on there. The Pats were sold on him and felt the need to move up and get their guy. Besides any spot between 20-32 is hardly a reach moving up to get a Top 5 End.

Hulk Hands

neilster wrote: »

Not my grade ...i thought thats explained ...its Bleacherreport

Sorry, I missed that. New question...why are you filling these boards with muck from bleacherreport?

I rate the Zeitler pick as a reach. Therefore below average. If a C is average, then a D is a fair grade on the pick. Maybe D+

JaMarcus Hustle

neilster wrote: »

JaMarcus in post-SuperBowl oversensitive shocker ....if you see i tip them for the SuperBowl btw ...a bit kind for a hater and you misquote me ....i dont call Hightower a reach ...Jones is a reach

Oh really?

neilster wrote:

PATS - Im not that big a fan of these picks , Hightower was a reach and Jones was picked ahead of better prospects .

Must be hard to keep track of what "you" say in those copy and paste jobs.

neilster

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

Oh really?



Must be hard to keep track of what "you" say in those copy and paste jobs.

LOL splitting my sides ...answer the statement ...i didnt call Hightower a reach ...you said i did...if you honour me with an answer try and stay on the subject

JaMarcus Hustle

Wtf? I just posted a direct quote and link to you calling Hightower a reach. Or am I misinterpretting the words "Hightower was a reach"...?

neilster

CoachTO wrote: »

How is Jones a reach? Most mocks had him go before the or around the Pats pick when they moved up. But just because you are personally not sold on Jones doesn't make him worse than the other guys on there. The Pats were sold on him and felt the need to move up and get their guy. Besides any spot between 20-32 is hardly a reach moving up to get a Top 5 End.

I think i explained how he was a reach , if he turns out to be Pierre-Paul im wrong. the Texans got Mercilus at 26 with sacks but only one season . The Pack got Perry at 28 where his beef was he didnt suit 3-4 duties and athleticism . Ingram was 18 but his arms wers short and Coples isnt high character guy.

Its the teams that compete next new year with the Pats in the play-offs...the Ravens, Steelers , G-Men, 49ers , Texans , and their pass rush that may decide a championship not the Chargers (Ingram) or Jets (Coples- i dont think they will be there ) to be fair so this will be how Jones is judged . I dont think he is a Aldon Smith , Jason Pierre Paul type talent and it their respective influence on the field is how they will be judged .

You questioned did i nab opinions from the net, the Pats had the finest team in football last year but they didnt rush the passer enough and were burned in the secondary . A similar team in terms of secondary in Dallas traded up for Claiborne and added Brandon Carr . Wilson and a falling Dennard isnt maybe the same effort on the secondary .

The Pats draft has not been universally graded as an A either. The first two picks are viewed as good by others but these are overall grades

Mel Kiper ESPN - B
Tood McShay - B
si.com - B-
Bleacherreport.com - C-
Footballnation - B-
Waltherfootball.com - B-

and the views on Tavon Wilson are worse ...this is a taste

48. Tavon Wilson, S, Illinois: D Grade
Whoa. Major reach. Tavon Wilson's rankings on various major draft boards: 254, 212, 216, 245, 182. Yeesh. I'd like to give Bill Belichick the benefit of the doubt, but it's not like he hasn't ever drafted a bust before. Why couldn't Belichick have traded down? He could have probably obtained Wilson in Round 3.

eagle eye

neilster wrote: »

LOL splitting my sides ...answer the statement ...i didnt call Hightower a reach ...you said i did...if you honour me with an answer try and stay on the subject

neilster wrote: »

PATS - Im not that big a fan of these picks , Hightower was a reach and Jones was picked ahead of better prospects . Its like the JJ Watt argument last year .

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78372243&postcount=891

neilster

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

Wtf? I just posted a direct quote and link to you calling Hightower a reach. Or am I misinterpretting the words "Hightower was a reach"...?

That isnt from the post above where i am dealing at length with the Pats where i do not call Hightower a reach ....that is another Post from another thread and is a typo it is Tavon Wilson i mean and even Pats fans will feel it a headscratcher


i know he can play nickel , Corner , Strong and Free Safety but is he talented enough for the 48th pick

neilster

eagle eye wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78372243&postcount=891

see my last post , so go on EE try and justify Tavon Wilson at the 48th pick of the draft ? People have benn busting themselves giving out about about Blogs like Walther & BleacherR but Walther had Wilson rated as the 8th Safety which is a high rating so i would have to take that on board but its a 4th rd grade!!!!

Listen teams can draft badly or patchily , im a Cowboys fan and the Claiborne trade was stunning but after that , its a bust in ways ....certainly a missed opportunity

why is there always a streak of untouchables about ye guys ....if someone mentioned pass rush and secondary to a pats fan , they are a heretic or anti-Pats...i still expect them to make the SuperBowl...hardly a hater ...much like last year .....if people go back through my posts last year ....i mentioned Aldon Smith but really championed JJ Watt ...ye passed on him....with Watt u could have won the SuperBowl no question....its that simple really and i dont rate Chandler Jones like others do

eagle eye

neilster wrote: »

see my last post , so go on EE try and justify Tavon Wilson at the 48th pick of the draft ?

I don't need to justify it but I'll explain this. The real draft experts, those that work for teams decided that they wanted Wilson. The Patriots got there first just like they did with Sebastien Vollmer a couple of years back.

Did you call Vollmer a reach as well?

Mr. Guappa

neilster wrote: »

That isnt from the post above where i am dealing at length with the Pats where i do not call Hightower a reach ....that is another Post from another thread and is a typo

So something completely related that you say in another thread is not relevant here. Right!

And a typo? Seriously? WOW.

neilster wrote: »

it is Tavon Wilson i mean and even Pats fans will feel it a headscratcher

i know he can play nickel , Corner , Strong and Free Safety but is he talented enough for the 48th pick

I think I'll give the benefit of the doubt to a guy who has been a Head Coach in 5 SuperBowls.

JaMarcus Hustle

neilster wrote: »

That isnt from the post above where i am dealing at length with the Pats where i do not call Hightower a reach ....that is another Post from another thread and is a typo it is Tavon Wilson i mean and even Pats fans will feel it a headscratcher

Oh really?

You posted that on Friday 27th April at 4:30pm.

Tavon Wilson, being a 2nd round pick, obviously wasn't selected by the Patriots until around 8/9 hours after you posted that.

A typo you say?

CoachTO

neilster wrote: »

I think i explained how he was a reach , if he turns out to be Pierre-Paul im wrong. the Texans got Mercilus at 26 with sacks but only one season . The Pack got Perry at 28 where his beef was he didnt suit 3-4 duties and athleticism . Ingram was 18 but his arms wers short and Coples isnt high character guy.

You barely explained how he was a reach. From every expert all top 7 Ends had differences to them and for the most part every Mock Draft had them moving up and down and all over the place. But it seems once again you are basing your own opinion on certain websites.

Its the teams that compete next new year with the Pats in the play-offs...the Ravens, Steelers , G-Men, 49ers , Texans , and their pass rush that may decide a championship not the Chargers (Ingram) or Jets (Coples- i dont think they will be there ) to be fair so this will be how Jones is judged . I dont think he is a Aldon Smith , Jason Pierre Paul type talent and it their respective influence on the field is how they will be judged .

Yeah alright keep looking into your crystal ball.

You questioned did i nab opinions from the net, the Pats had the finest team in football last year but they didnt rush the passer enough and were burned in the secondary . A similar team in terms of secondary in Dallas traded up for Claiborne and added Brandon Carr . Wilson and a falling Dennard isnt maybe the same effort on the secondary .

You keep repeating the same Pash Rushing nonsense to justify Jones being a reach even though between the FA and the Draft the Pats have done well picking the right players to suit their system. Only you and a few others are trying to make out Jones was a reach and doesn't solve their problems.

The Pats draft has not been universally graded as an A either. The first two picks are viewed as good by others but these are overall grades

Mel Kiper ESPN - B
Tood McShay - B
si.com - B-
Bleacherreport.com - C-
Footballnation - B-
Waltherfootball.com - B-

Where did I say universally? I said majority totally different. Also SI, Bleacher, FN have put up a couple of versions of their grade depending on what writer actually graded it. But good to see you can use the internet to try prove me wrong with a small few examples and then try say something I didn't.

and the views on Tavon Wilson are worse ...this is a taste


48. Tavon Wilson, S, Illinois: D Grade
Whoa. Major reach. Tavon Wilson's rankings on various major draft boards: 254, 212, 216, 245, 182. Yeesh. I'd like to give Bill Belichick the benefit of the doubt, but it's not like he hasn't ever drafted a bust before. Why couldn't Belichick have traded down? He could have probably obtained Wilson in Round 3.

So what? Did you read what I said? Obviously you didn't. But calling someone a bust because others didn't factor Wilson at all is stupid. Ryan Leaf was seen as a sure thing once look how that worked out. Tom Brady was seen as a waste of time by many and look how that worked out. A bust is someone who has failed and as of yet Wilson hasnt done anything so until let reserve judgement no?

CoachTO

neilster wrote: »

why is there always a streak of untouchables about ye guys ....if someone mentioned pass rush and secondary to a pats fan , they are a heretic or anti-Pats...i still expect them to make the SuperBowl...hardly a hater ...much like last year .....if people go back through my posts last year ....i mentioned Aldon Smith but really championed JJ Watt ...ye passed on him....with Watt u could have won the SuperBowl no question....its that simple really and i dont rate Chandler Jones like others do

When its pure nonsense regardless of who we support you will be called out on it. You bash our team, a team we as Pats fans and knowledgeable for the most part know best. Why wouldn't we defend it. Oh and it also has to do with the dribble you produce as your own fact that is clearly wrong for the most part.

As for the hindsight stuff :rolleyes: All of us have mentioned players in the Past the Pats skipped. The what ifs and hindsight are pointless discussions in the end. Comparing players we have picked up now to what ifs in past drafts is f**king stupid.

Mr. Guappa

neilster wrote: »

why is there always a streak of untouchables about ye guys ....if someone mentioned pass rush and secondary to a pats fan , they are a heretic or anti-Pats...i still expect them to make the SuperBowl...hardly a hater ...much like last year .....if people go back through my posts last year ....i mentioned Aldon Smith but really championed JJ Watt ...ye passed on him....with Watt u could have won the SuperBowl no question....its that simple really and i dont rate Chandler Jones like others do

Aldon Smith went at #7, JJ Watt at #11. The Patriots first pick was #17.

I've got to admit this is great fun.

JaMarcus Hustle

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Aldon Smith went at #7, JJ Watt at #11. The Patriots first pick was #17.

I've got to admit this is great fun.

Laughed out loud at work when I read that last line, thanks!!

God, neilster, not exactly your finest moment is it?

What was with the Tavon Wilson typo lie?

Red Crow

neilster wrote: »

The Pats draft has not been universally graded as an A either. The first two picks are viewed as good by others but these are overall grades

Mel Kiper ESPN - B
Tood McShay - B
si.com - B-
Bleacherreport.com - C-
Footballnation - B-
Waltherfootball.com - B-

and the views on Tavon Wilson are worse ...this is a taste

48. Tavon Wilson, S, Illinois: D Grade
Whoa. Major reach. Tavon Wilson's rankings on various major draft boards: 254, 212, 216, 245, 182. Yeesh. I'd like to give Bill Belichick the benefit of the doubt, but it's not like he hasn't ever drafted a bust before. Why couldn't Belichick have traded down? He could have probably obtained Wilson in Round 3.

The same guys beat on Belichick for Vollmer too. A lot of these 'draft experts' take great interest in the 'elite' prospects. As you move further down the board, prospectively that is, the more likely some talent is going to get overlooked because they just don't have the hype. Without any hype these names don't get talked about so nobody considers these guys to have a high draft stock. So when a Vollmer gets pulled off the board early the experts are ready to attack.

The fact is that Bellichick and the NE Scouts know far more about this guy than the 'experts'. They worked out with him in Illinois, he was a captain and leader and he appears to be a pretty focused, dedicated and respectful guy.

He can play Corner, Nickel and Safety. I'm not defending the pick, I'm saying give the guy a chance to defend himself on the field before he's judged.

mikemac1

neilster wrote: »

Pick 3 S Tavon Wilson , like the Gregory signing in the summer , this guy is a depth pick when maybe a George Iloka could be picked . This guy is a bust basically

Not one player drafted or signed as a UDFA is a bust yet.
Give it two to three years and then come back

neilster wrote: »

48. Tavon Wilson, S, Illinois: D Grade
Whoa. Major reach. Tavon Wilson's rankings on various major draft boards: 254, 212, 216, 245, 182. Yeesh. I'd like to give Bill Belichick the benefit of the doubt, but it's not like he hasn't ever drafted a bust before. Why couldn't Belichick have traded down? He could have probably obtained Wilson in Round 3.

You need a trading partner.
Patriots do it better then most but it's not always possible to do a deal or get a good deal in time.
And anyway if this is your guy and you have him high on your board then damn the media talking heads, go get him

Reach is a media term anyway

why is there always a streak of untouchables about ye guys ....if someone mentioned pass rush and secondary to a pats fan , they are a heretic or anti-Pats...i still expect them to make the SuperBowl...hardly a hater ...much like last year .....if people go back through my posts last year .why is there always a streak of untouchables about ye guys ....if someone mentioned pass rush and secondary to a pats fan , they are a heretic or anti-Pats

I follow football and baseball
And the East Coast media are merciless
The harshest Pats critics are the Pats fans themselves

.with Watt u could have won the SuperBowl no question.

And if Sterling Moore didn't strip Lee Evans then Patriots would not have even made the Superbowl. You can play the "if" game all day.
Games are not won on paper and adding one top player guarantees nothing

no team has ever had a draft with every player coming out with a grades its nice to see optimism but its not happening

neilster

mikemac1 wrote: »

Not one player drafted or signed as a UDFA is a bust yet.
Give it two to three years and then come back



You need a trading partner.
Patriots do it better then most but it's not always possible to do a deal or get a good deal in time.
And anyway if this is your guy and you have him high on your board then damn the media talking heads, go get him

Reach is a media term anyway



I follow football and baseball
And the East Coast media are merciless
The harshest Pats critics are the Pats fans themselves



And if Sterling Moore didn't strip Lee Evans then Patriots would not have even made the Superbowl. You can play the "if" game all day.
Games are not won on paper and adding one top player guarantees nothing

Listen quit with the Sterling Moore stuff . its exceedingly rare for a non-elite defence like that to get to a Super Bowl much less win it and a draft that is all defence says it all

Listen Wilson was the 8-10 th best safety available , thats the 4th round ....a person can call it a reach or anything else they want...if the secondary gets burned similarly next season it will be a bust next season ...

CoachTO

neilster wrote: »

Listen quit with the Sterling Moore stuff . its exceedingly rare for a non-elite defence like that to get to a Super Bowl much less win it and a draft that is all defence says it all

Pretty sure you missed his point about Sterling Moore. He was using him as an example for the "What ifs"

Listen Wilson was the 8-10 th best safety available , thats the 4th round ....a person can call it a reach or anything else they want...if the secondary gets burned similarly next season it will be a bust next season ...

And you also seemed to have missed everyones point on taking Wilson. Just because you and most of the media dont agree with the Pats taking him that high doesn't make you right. It also Doesn't make him a bust or a bad pick. Time will tell.

JaMarcus Hustle

Glad to see your back neilster. Care to explain your lies?

Justin10

Ok sick of this will people shut up about Ingrams arms

His arms are the same as Tamba Hali, Jared Allen, Terrel Suggs, Cameron Wake, Elvis Dumervil, James Harrison has like an inch longer.

*Sorry just had to get that off my chest

mikemac1

neilster wrote: »

Listen quit with the......

Debate is good but you'd want to look at your style of posting sometime neilster

neilster

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

Laughed out loud at work when I read that last line, thanks!!

God, neilster, not exactly your finest moment is it?

What was with the Tavon Wilson typo lie?

Jamarcus if you were a choc biscuit ud lick urself...Listen ye didnt trade up for them ....your loss ...ye lost a superbowl due to pass-rush and they can do it ...ye had the picks and ye didnt trade up for them

I rate Mercilus and Perry as higher prospects than Jones and the Jets & the Chargers rate Coples & Ingram higher also. Again ye had the picks. This time ye have chosen Jones cos ye traded up
why dont u defend the pick instead of dripping sarcasm over everything ...

JaMarcus Hustle

neilster wrote: »

Jamarcus if you were a choc biscuit ud lick urself...Listen ye didnt trade up for them ....your loss ...ye lost a superbowl due to pass-rush and they can do it ...ye had the picks and ye didnt trade up for them

I rate Mercilus and Perry as higher prospects than Jones and the Jets & the Chargers rate Coples & Ingram higher also. Again ye had the picks. This time ye have chosen Jones cos ye traded up
why dont u defend the pick instead of dripping sarcasm over everything ...

Okay.

Simple question - why did you say it was a typo calling Hightower a reach and that you meant Wilson, when Wilson hadn't even been drafted yet as the 2nd round hadn't started?

I want you to answer that, that's all.

neilster

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

So something completely related that you say in another thread is not relevant here. Right!

And a typo? Seriously? WOW.



I think I'll give the benefit of the doubt to a guy who has been a Head Coach in 5 SuperBowls.

who hasnt drafted well in the secondary lately .....

Justin10

I think Perry has reached his max potential, but wouldnt surprise me if packers found a way to get the best out of him in the pros.

Coples is so over hyped reminds me of Vernon Gholston.
Not sold on Jones either.

Love the Hightower pick.

neilster

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

Okay.

Simple question - why did you say it was a typo calling Hightower a reach and that you meant Wilson, when Wilson hadn't even been drafted yet as the 2nd round hadn't started?

I want you to answer that, that's all

i thought it was Wilson i meant ...it certainly wasnt meant as a deliberate lie ....and if i meant Hightower that would be a mistake...the Steelers liked him and Baltimore so thats a good place for the pick and there was a buzz that Hightower might have went higher

did u actually go and check times on individual posts versus the time clock for the 48th pick ....did u ...thats hilarious

funny since that ive watched a couple of things on Wilson and was impressed ...im not sure i was 2nd rd impressed but....discuss tho why you rate Jones ?

neilster

CoachTO wrote: »

Pretty sure you missed his point about Sterling Moore. He was using him as an example for the "What ifs"



And you also seemed to have missed everyones point on taking Wilson. Just because you and most of the media dont agree with the Pats taking him that high doesn't make you right. It also Doesn't make him a bust or a bad pick. Time will tell.

i dont think he is a bad pick necessarily hes bad value....

JaMarcus Hustle

neilster wrote: »

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

Okay.

Simple question - why did you say it was a typo calling Hightower a reach and that you meant Wilson, when Wilson hadn't even been drafted yet as the 2nd round hadn't started?

I want you to answer that, that's all

i thought it was Wilson i meant ...it certainly wasnt meant as a deliberate lie ....and if i meant Hightower that would be a mistake...the Steelers liked him and Baltimore so thats a good place for the pick and there was a buzz that Hightower might have went higher

did u actually go and check times on individual posts versus the time clock for the 48th pick ....did u ...thats hilarious

funny since that ive watched a couple of things on Wilson and was impressed ...im not sure i was 2nd rd impressed but....discuss tho why you rate Jones ?

Not discussing anything with you. You're a liar and a troll.

CoachTO

neilster wrote: »

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

Okay.

Simple question - why did you say it was a typo calling Hightower a reach and that you meant Wilson, when Wilson hadn't even been drafted yet as the 2nd round hadn't started?

I want you to answer that, that's all

i thought it was Wilson i meant ...it certainly wasnt meant as a deliberate lie ....and if i meant Hightower that would be a mistake...the Steelers liked him and Baltimore so thats a good place for the pick and there was a buzz that Hightower might have went higher

So basically you don't know who you were talking about? Why not just say that in the first place. Say Look listen lads I have no idea what I was saying with that post etc etc Why cover it up with a lie makes no sense. We are all human we do make mistakes from time to time.

did u actually go and check times on individual posts versus the time clock for the 48th pick ....did u ...thats hilarious

So what if he did. No harm checking facts if confused by someones post.

funny since that ive watched a couple of things on Wilson and was impressed ...im not sure i was 2nd rd impressed but....discuss tho why you rate Jones ?

I will play your game. Jones's size for one, His strength and his length, Good quick step, can use his hands well and works his ass off. All of those are pros. Cons he sometimes stands straight up and any Olineman with technique will blow him out and he sometimes and his speed is not consistency enough. On thing with him though he has 10 times more pros than cons and once he starts and NFL workout he will tuned in to the speed and strength of Pro Offensive Linemen and will fix his weaknesses.

eagle eye

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

Not discussing anything with you. You're a liar and a troll.

Ah come on, thats just ridic. He might be annoying but he is not a troll by any stretch. He might have meant Jones as the reach because he didn't have him in his first round mock and he called nearly everybody a reach that wasn't in his first round mock.

He does put time and effort into his posts. He annoys the hell out of me a lot but he certainly is not a troll. And calling a guy a liar over what possibly could be a mistake on his part is unfair.

CoachTO

neilster wrote: »

Jamarcus if you were a choc biscuit ud lick urself...Listen ye didnt trade up for them ....your loss ...ye lost a superbowl due to pass-rush and they can do it ...ye had the picks and ye didnt trade up for them

Hindisght such a wonderful thing. We could have traded up for lots of players in the past as could many teams. Still living in the world of what ifs eh?

I rate Mercilus and Perry as higher prospects than Jones and the Jets & the Chargers rate Coples & Ingram higher also. Again ye had the picks. This time ye have chosen Jones cos ye traded up
why dont u defend the pick instead of dripping sarcasm over everything ...

So what if you rate those guys higher than Jones. Does that make you right? No it doesn't so why bother coming in here thinking you are 100% right. Oh the last line oh the irony.

CoachTO

neilster wrote: »

i dont think he is a bad pick necessarily hes bad value....

So what if he is bad value though. Just because people don't agree with your opinion doesn't make any of us right. You have jumped from saying he will be a bust to now saying he wont but now he is just bad value. Which is it?

neilster wrote: »

Pick 3 S Tavon Wilson , like the Gregory signing in the summer , this guy is a depth pick when maybe a George Iloka could be picked . This guy is a bust basically

The Pats took him where they did. The Pats might have looked at their board and decided they didn't want anyone else other than Wilson and decided fook it lets just grab him now. They obviously like what they saw with him and pulled the trigger. If it becomes the wrong pick later down the line so be it but right now none of us can say he is bad value until he proves us right or wrong.

JaMarcus Hustle

eagle eye wrote: »

Ah come on, thats just ridic. He might be annoying but he is not a troll by any stretch. He might have meant Jones as the reach because he didn't have him in his first round mock and he called nearly everybody a reach that wasn't in his first round mock.

He does put time and effort into his posts. He annoys the hell out of me a lot but he certainly is not a troll. And calling a guy a liar over what possibly could be a mistake on his part is unfair.

Edit: No point discussing it in here. Just bringing another thread off topic with arguments, people can make up their own mind.

eagle eye

This is nearly as comical as neilster's draft grades!

"thing is its meant to be funny..

NFL Draft Winners And Losers

The 2012 NFL Draft is in the books, and the speculation now begins as to which teams gained football players and which ones gambled away their entire futures.

• Pittsburgh Steelers: Perennially good draft team somehow addressed its needs at guard, tackle, defensive line, and companionship
• Buffalo Bills: Had another remarkable draft, as all the year's major screw-ups somehow fell to them once again
• New England Patriots: All their draft picks are now Patriots players; those guys usually turn out to be effective
• Cincinnati Bengals: Although by all indications the Bengals made good, solid picks, it's always safest to assume they have ****ed up horribly
• Minnesota Vikings: Picked an offensive lineman to protect Christian Ponder in the first round; as a result, no analyst has stopped laughing long enough to grade the rest of their draft
• Cleveland Browns: In one of the most endearing stories of the draft, the Browns used a first-round draft pick to select Colt McCoy's biological father
• New York Jets: Addressed some needs, but at the end of the draft found themselves with the same obnoxious fans in the stands and Tim Tebow on their roster
• Mel Kiper, Jr.: As always, the draft's biggest loser

http://www.theonion.com/articles/nfl-draft-winners-and-losers,28094/

Mr. Guappa

So neilster, just to summarise:
You've backtracked on Hightower, and Wilson is no longer the quickest bust in draft history? Excellent. So it surely follows that you have now revised your opinion that the Patriots draft was dodgy?

SantryRed

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

So neilster, just to summarise:
You've backtracked on Hightower, and Wilson is no longer the quickest bust in draft history? Excellent. So it surely follows that you have now revised your opinion that the Patriots draft was dodgy?

He meant to say the Packers draft was dodgy...

neilster

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

Not discussing anything with you. You're a liar and a troll.

couldnt give a monkeys ...when ever points are made u dont like u dont discuss them...me and Tallaght and other guys who have subsequently gone off this forum could have right dingdongs but there is a spitefulness in general which comes out sometimes more recently where someone wud check times ....stats etc in general to catch the other out and or show them up not to discuss back and forth

for what its worth i have on occasion been very complimentary to the Pats , the awesomeness on one side of the ball and the results got whilst being bedevilled on the other side ...i have also tipped them for the SuperBowl and as favourites really .

I have criticed the pass rush a long time ago and was proved right in the SuperBowl. I have criticised drafting in general in the secondary . I think the character issues of some and the release or demotion of others has made my criticisms valid....Ras I Dowling being missing was a real blow as he was a first round talent imo ....many posters who are pats fans after the final defeat articulated as such ...

My beef is with some of the picks drafted when others were on the board or where they were drafted ... but such a concentration of picks on defense when that was the overwhelming need will of course draw dividends ...they were awful close to being champions as it was

neilster

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

So neilster, just to summarise:
You've backtracked on Hightower, and Wilson is no longer the quickest bust in draft history? Excellent. So it surely follows that you have now revised your opinion that the Patriots draft was dodgy?

youd think that the Tavon Wilson pick was universally lauded ...the average from what i seen was that the Pats draft was a B and the Wilson pick was a D...one thing which possibly explains why it was the 48th pick was that another team was nosing around and it seems it was the Chargers who were picking soon after ...but whilst the verdict seems to be that he will be solid in his career ....there is practically no=one putting the 2nd rd on him

Tavon Wilson views fron other sources

Patspulpit.com ....

---

Wilson doesn't look to be a game changer like Ed Reed. However, he looks like a solid, reliable player with a bunch of athletic upside. He's versatile and can fill a lot of holes on the Patriots defense. While I definitely question the value of the selection, if Belichick thought that Wilson was to be drafted by the Chargers, I won't question him.
Since Wilson does everything well, but nothing spectacularly (yet), I see Wilson developing into a more physical and athletic James Sanders, except a stronger run defender. He'll be a positive presence in the locker room, and I wouldn't be surprised if Wilson was drafted to be the next Sanders for Belichick

si.com = ranked 41st safety ..... from Tony Pauline si.com ..

Tavon Wilson/DB/New England/Pick No. 48 -- Few teams, if any, considered Wilson draftable, never mind assigning him a second-round grade. Wilson is a nice prospect, yet does not stand out in any single area.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/tony_pauline/04/28/steals.reaches.2012draft/index.html#ixzz1uBXKKR9n
si.com draft profile ..Positives: Feisty college safety with marginal size/speed numbers for the next level. Displays fluid movement skills, the ability to go sideline to sideline and a burst to the action. Works to keep the play in front of him and fights to break up throws. Aggressive defending the run or screen passes.

Negatives: Easily disrupted by blocks. Struggles in man coverage situations and cannot stay with receivers out of breaks. Occasionally bites on play-action passes.

Analysis: Wilson was solid on the college level and will be a serviceable player at the next level if he performs well on special teams.

Projection: FA

Wilson wasn't invited to any pre-draft all-star games of note

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/draft-2012/players/83104.html#ixzz1uBVmqqgV

ESPN Insider ... Wilson was the 24th-best safety prospect in the draft class. their complaint was his tackling capability and range

Profootballweekly ...ranked him as the 12th-best free safety prospect.

Waltherfootball.....8th rated safety ...which could be the closest to the truth

neilster

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

So neilster, just to summarise:
You've backtracked on Hightower, and Wilson is no longer the quickest bust in draft history? Excellent. So it surely follows that you have now revised your opinion that the Patriots draft was dodgy?

listen Wilson was graded as a free agent grade or late rounds ...it seems the Chargers liked Wilson also so seeing that its the 90s since they had a good safety ....ye were in good company so