Electric Cars

extremetaz

Just a quick line to make myself know to the Leaf owners on Boards - spotted a few threads about EV's but nothing significant yet.

Deposit is paid, ESB survey scheduled, and I'm hoping to take delivery in the next 2-3 weeks.

Trading in against my '06 Civic IMA as the fuel costs with our commute is starting to run in excess of €400/month far too regularly. Coupling that with my current motorloan and the figures come out significantly in favour of the Leaf.

Test drove two weeks ago and was sufficiently impressed with the performance for the role it'll be in. The range is very comfortable one way but the round trip would be marginal however, there are DC chargers readily available close to the work end thankfully.


I dare say we'll be seeing plenty more of them on the road in the next 24 months.

Zubeneschamali

extremetaz wrote: »

fuel costs with our commute is starting to run in excess of €400/month far too regularly.

Sounds similar to my commute, 800 km a week, and there is absolutely not a chance in hell that a Leaf could replace my car. I'd be interested to see how you think you'll manage.

How far is it one way? How long does it take you in the Civic?

extremetaz

Yeah, similar distance to that with the remainder made up with the second car.

The Leaf is for the main commute though which is 73km each direction, 6-days a week. The commute is mostly on secondary roads with only about 12-14k total on dual carraigways or motorways.

There are 24hr DC charge points close to either of our workplaces and arrangements are in the works for charging on site where we each are as well.

I don't know what your trip is comprised of but basically, the Leaf will work for us because we are travelling a very predictable path with charge facilities available at each end.

If you required flexibility in your commute, then at the moment, you're quite correct, they aren't much of an option for the distances you and I are talking about. You'd have to be doing far less mileage for them to work flexibly at the moment.

For weekend or unpredictable journeys then, we're retaining our old '01 Megane.

edit: It's about 1hr20 in the civic, just to address the question. What makes it worth switching then is the fact that the civic, even at 50mpg (reliably) is ringing in at ~€0.097c/km. The EV will ring in (on combined day/night charging) at €0.018.

Sesshoumaru

extremetaz wrote: »

Just a quick line to make myself know to the Leaf owners on Boards - spotted a few threads about EV's but nothing significant yet.

Deposit is paid, ESB survey scheduled, and I'm hoping to take delivery in the next 2-3 weeks.

Trading in against my '06 Civic IMA as the fuel costs with our commute is starting to run in excess of €400/month far too regularly. Coupling that with my current motorloan and the figures come out significantly in favour of the Leaf.

Test drove two weeks ago and was sufficiently impressed with the performance for the role it'll be in. The range is very comfortable one way but the round trip would be marginal however, there are DC chargers readily available close to the work end thankfully.


I dare say we'll be seeing plenty more of them on the road in the next 24 months.

One Leaf owner is doing a regular 5 working day commute from Tipperary to Dublin.

http://selfficiency.wordpress.com/automotive/nissan-leaf-diary/

His blog states he is doing 105km each way, so 210km per day. I met up with him and a few other Leaf owners at a little gathering we had in Sandyford a few weeks ago.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=77947136

I think he said he was doing up to 5,000km per month and was very happy so far.

I've had mine 12 months now and did 24,500 kilometres in that time period. Just had the first service, no detectable battery degradation, no issues whatsoever. Great car!

Zubeneschamali

extremetaz wrote: »

The commute is mostly on secondary roads with only about 12-14k total on dual carraigways or motorways.

There are 24hr DC charge points close to either of our workplaces
It's about 1hr20 in the civic

OK, the first and last are the big differences, I do 84 Km each way, and 80 Km is on the motorway. It's only 45 minutes in my car, and I wouldn't go to 80 minutes each way: I'd quit first.

extremetaz

Outstanding!

Can't say I was fretting much regarding the batteries etc.. but nonetheless it's still very comforting to hear there's folk out there using them in a similar manner.

You'll be able to add a Westmeath to Dublin commuter to that list as and from a few weeks time.

extremetaz

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

OK, the first and last are the big differences, I do 84 Km each way, and 80 Km is on the motorway. It's only 45 minutes in my car, and I wouldn't go to 80 minutes each way: I'd quit first.

lol - the Leaf is well capable of motorway speeds, it's just a little harder on the battery.

Basically, the roads we commute on play to its strenghts that little but more where range is concerned.

I can tell you first hand though, she'll shift happily enough on the motorway, you just wouldn't expect to get much over 100km to the charge I's imagine - but I'm sure the others will be well able to verify that at this stage.


I don't expect our commuting time to alter in the least - and I'd actually encourage you to take a closer look at one if your commute is as predictable as you're making out.

Atomic Pineapple

How much is it costing you to change to the Leaf and how long will it take you to make that up in fuel savings?

Anan1

OSI wrote: »

Reading that blog just convinces me even more that EV's aren't ready for main stream. The guy travels 105KM at 85Km/h on the motorway (f that) and still feels the need to stop for a quick charge on the way!!

And this doesn't fill me with confidence either:

Who cares about 'main stream'? Like just about any other type of car, EV suits some people and not others.

Zubeneschamali

extremetaz wrote: »

you just wouldn't expect to get much over 100km to the charge I's imagine

I don't believe I'd get to work at all on one charge. Not with any margin for error.

Sesshoumaru

OSI wrote: »

Reading that blog just convinces me even more that EV's aren't ready for main stream. The guy travels 105KM at 85Km/h on the motorway (f that) and still feels the need to stop for a quick charge on the way!!

And this doesn't fill me with confidence either:

Yes EV's are the opposite of ICE on motorways. Also I would put that incident down to driver inexperience. I don't bother looking at the trip computer anymore, I have enough experience now to know what my real world range is. In any case the Leaf got a firmware update in the last month, so that the computer uses a more efficient algorithm to calculate range.

If you look at the date I started that thread on our EV meet-up in Sandyford, you will see it was 2 months after that incident. The fact is he went to the meet-up and expressed extreme satisfaction with his car

extremetaz

draffodx wrote: »

How much is it costing you to change to the Leaf and how long will it take you to make that up in fuel savings?

To answer the question in short:

My monthly motor loan will increase by €20/week
My fuel bill will drop by (worst case) €54/week

Resulting in a net saving of €34/week

**************

Keep reading for the detailed breakdown of those figures:

The Cost-benefit analysis spreadsheet that I've done up combines energy prices at €0.09c/kWh as the night rate (ie: home charging) along with €0.18c/kWh as the daytime rate (ie: work charging) and splits the difference producing a figure of €0.135c/kWh (symmetrical journeys so half and half is a fair approximation).

I'm also, rather conservatively, assuming 120km to the full 24kWh charge (the car is 175km rated; 140km expected) so that produces a combined figure of €0.027/km as the worst case scenario.

Comparing that with the Civic:
50mpg and €1.67/L gives a price of €0.097/km

So the worst case difference in fuel expenditure is €0.07c/km or 72% to the good.

On my mileage (40,000km/annum) that adds up to €2800 or ~€54/week.

In my case, the purchase will increase my motorloan repayments by €80/month so even with that factored in I'm still €34/week better off in my pocket in the worst case outcome.

Sesshoumaru

OSI wrote: »

Was that before or after all the problems with chargers?

If you looks at the dates it is clearly well after he had that issue. It's very easy to pick some experiences out of his blog and ignore the context of the entire blog. He is a happy EV owner.

Zubeneschamali

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

The fact is he went to the meet-up and expressed extreme satisfaction with his car

Good for him, if he did his research and fancies spending the extra day a week driving slowly to and from work and watching it recharge on the way.

I don't think there are enough people like that in the world to make the Leaf a commercial proposition, though.

extremetaz

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I don't believe I'd get to work at all on one charge. Not with any margin for error.

Well in that case prob best to stay as you are then.

As Anan1 mentioned, right now they're very much a specific tool for a specific job. Luckily enough, with where myself and the missus are located, and how we commute, we fit the profile almost perfectly.



@ OSI - I didn't start this thread to try and convert anyone, merely to add myself to the EV ranks and make contact with other people who's experience I may benefit from. I'm not about to get into an IC vs. EV pissing contest with you or anyone else (and for the record I AM a petrolhead - I own one classic and one modern motorcycle and have had numerous cars through the years, but I'm also a mortgage holder in a time of recession, and EV's are looking like an incredibly effective way to cut my transport costs).

Yes, there are issues with both the charging stations themselves and their volumes and distributions at the moment, but those are typical teething problems which, at a minimum, Topaz, Applegreen, Nissan, Peugeot and the ESB are all collaborating to tackle. Ford will be in on that list soon enough as well and others will follow.

Early adoption carries its risks yes, but if the people who are in a position to adopt merely stick their head in the sand, then nothing ever develops and nobody ever benefits.

Zubeneschamali

extremetaz wrote: »

we fit the profile almost perfectly.

You're the first highish-mileage motorist I've seen say so. Most people seem to think the EV is ideal for a 10km toddle into town in traffic sort of commute, not a run-the-battery-flat-both-ways trip.

Matt Simis

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

You're the first highish-mileage motorist I've seen say so. Most people seem to think the EV is ideal for a 10km toddle into town in traffic sort of commute, not a run-the-battery-flat-both-ways trip.

Yes I was surprised by that too. Imo this does not fit the profile, it fits the maximum allowable distance assuming charging on both ends, its the fringe of whats possible, definately not (IMO) the profile the marketing guys are spinning of the average motorist (average = "the profile").

The Leaf is for the main commute though which is 73km each direction, 6-days a week. The commute is mostly on secondary roads with only about 12-14k total on dual carraigways or motorways.

There are 24hr DC charge points close to either of our workplaces and arrangements are in the works for charging on site where we each are as well.

As it happens I also drive from Meath to Dublin, maybe about 50km each direction every day. I find the average speed (by everyone not just me) on the sparsely populated secondary roads in excess of the speed possible (give traffic) on the M3 or M4. Ill wave when overtaking!

Im willing to give EV's a chance when the average speed is 120kph and the range returned is greater than 150km on one full charge. Fast charging (30min?) is nice, but not a major factor as an unexpected 30min stop on a journey would already be a dealbreaker for me.

Anan1

extremetaz wrote: »

Early adoption carries its risks yes, but if the people who are in a position to adopt merely stick their head in the sand, then nothing ever develops and nobody ever benefits.

The level of conservatism with regard to electric cars around here is quite comical, people seem somehow affronted by the idea that an EV might suit anyone.

extremetaz

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

You're the first highish-mileage motorist I've seen say so. Most people seem to think the EV is ideal for a 10km toddle into town in traffic sort of commute, not a run-the-battery-flat-both-ways trip.

Fortunately I benefit from the privilage of being an Electronic Engineer with a specialisation in energy systems so I'm a little more familiar with, and confident in, Lithium battery chemistries than most.

I'd actually hold entirely the opposite view to what you've outlined above. No battery likes to sit fully charged for extended periods of time, but farthermore, there is absolutely no cost benefit to these vehicles over those distances.

What you're outlining places them in the bracket of exclusive toy rather than cost effective tranport.

Having said that, the likes of the Reva did serve to enforce that opinion I suppose - my father has one of them as it happens. Now *that* is a purely urban vehicle, not even remotely suited to extra-urban travel. However, it's also classed as a quadricycle, not a car, and has a 13kW motor fed from a 12kWh pack. It has no brake servo, no steering or traction aids, no airbags...

It's not even remotely representative of a proper electric car.

The Leaf has a 24kWh pack driving an 80kW motor. That's 107BHP, and it's available from stopped! It has traction control, cruise control, ABS, power steering, climate control, airbags, electric windows, etc, etc, etc....

In short - this IS a proper car.

Again - I'm not trying to convert anyone here, but if you happen to shed some of your prejudices whilst you're here then great.

The only difference with them is the range restriction - and that is why, as I said, they'll suit some more than others.

extremetaz

Matt Simis wrote: »

...Imo this does not fit the profile, it fits the maximum allowable distance assuming charging on both ends, its the fringe of whats possible...

You are incorrect. It fits a comfortable commute at average traffic speeds on the roads I travel, with no significant loss in performance over the Civic (minor loss in roll on from 100-140km/h - and this is first hand knowledge, I made sure to note it during the test drive), and a 50km cushion in the range at each end (enough to ensure you can reach any charger in the dublin area!).

Matt Simis wrote: »

As it happens I also drive from Meath to Dublin, maybe about 50km each direction every day. I find the average speed (by everyone not just me) on the sparsely populated secondary roads in excess of the speed possible (give traffic) on the M3 or M4. Ill wave when overtaking!

Funnily enough, my parents live on the N4, so I'm quite familiar with that road and drive it regularly. Furthermore, the M3 actually forms part of the daily commute we do (we can use either route really). The Leaf WILL handle either without any difficulty.

Matt Simis wrote: »

Im willing to give EV's a chance when the average speed is 120kph and the range returned is greater than 150km on one full charge. Fast charging (30min?) is nice, but not a major factor as an unexpected 30min stop on a journey would already be a dealbreaker for me.

The unexpected is the enemy of the EV right now - no question about it. You need to be sure of where you're going and be sure that you can reach a charge point when or before you require it.

As to the speed and the range at speed - I don't think you'll have too long to wait.

Jimbob 83

Shockin

draffodx

draffodx wrote: »

How much is it costing you to change to the Leaf and how long will it take you to make that up in fuel savings?

extremetaz wrote: »

To answer the question in short:

My monthly motor loan will increase by €20/week
My fuel bill will drop by (worst case) €54/week

Resulting in a net saving of €34/week

**************
:....

In my case, the purchase will increase my motorloan repayments by €80/month so even with that factored in I'm still €34/week better off in my pocket in the worst case outcome.

So if you divide the cost to change by 34 euro what's the answer?

extremetaz

RoverJames wrote: »

So if you divide the cost to change by 34 euro what's the answer?

huh?... I think you need to read the post again.

€35 is the net saving every week after factoring in the "cost to change".


*edit:

...unless you're looking for me to factor in the fuel savings as a percentage of the actual capital cost of the entire car as opposed to how the change affects my monthly outgoings?... ...is that it?

but sure that'd be a nonesense altogether...

Zubeneschamali

extremetaz wrote: »

What you're outlining places them in the bracket of exclusive toy rather than cost effective tranport.

Lot's of people own a six-cylinder German saloon for that 10km toddle into town, it's not like EV owners would be the only ones with expensive toys.

Best of luck with your machine.

extremetaz

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Lot's of people own a six-cylinder German saloon for that 10km toddle into town, it's not like EV owners would be the only ones with expensive toys.

Best of luck with your machine.

lol - can't argue with that, but those 6-cyls are exactly that, expensive toys, not practical commuters.

I regularly work on a '63 E-type Coupé in here, and I've my eyes towards a Mk.I Capri someday, so I can definitely relate, but the fact remains, there's no way you could afford to drive them everyday.

extremetaz

extremetaz wrote: »

huh?... I think you need to read the post again.

€35 is the net saving every week after factoring in the "cost to change".


*edit:

...unless you're looking for me to factor in the fuel savings as a percentage of the actual capital cost of the entire car as opposed to how the change affects my monthly outgoings?... ...is that it?

but sure that'd be a nonesense altogether...

Apologies, basically changing cars has resulted in your saving 54 per week and the motor tax too of course, so the cost to change upfront divided by the weekly saving would be a nice figure to know

subway

unkel wrote: »

Oh no, it's a lot worse than that. At 120km/h I would say the car uses roughly (for simplicity reasons) about half of its power (same would apply to an average ICE vehicle). The engine power is 80kW and the battery capacity is 24kWh

This means a fully charged Leaf will only lasts a bit over 30mins at 120km/h. Not 90mins

A 50MPG diesel with the same power and a 65l tank would last 10 hours at 120km/h

An EV as is, is only suitable as a city car in reality...

Is this not a worry op?

extremetaz

RoverJames wrote: »

Apologies, basically changing cars has resulted in your saving 54 per week and the motor tax too of course, so the cost to change upfront divided by the weekly saving would be a nice figure to know

Changing the car will result in Fuel savings of €54/week.
This offsets against a €20/week increase in my motorloan repayments.
So that leaves me €34/week better off.

Hadn't considered the tax.
The last disk on the Civic was €333 or so I think, and it's gone up since then hasn't it?

In any case, the Leaf is €160, so that's a few more quid in pocket as well.


edit*:

oh - and my insurance quote dropped as well. Don't have those numbers by me at the moment, but it's another ~€50 or so in the year.

ottostreet

Electric car threads are popping up far too regularly for my liking these days

So you're not answering the question asked

subway

since you keep bringing up the loan, how many years are you extending your paymends by?

extremetaz

subway wrote: »

Is this not a worry op?

..was that in this thread? Missed it if so.

It's correct to a point. The amount of energy required to move through air at increasing velocity, increases exponentially, so it is correct to say that the Leaf will use a hell of a lot more power travelling at 120Km/h as opposed to 100Km/h, and even more again that 80km/h.

However, doubling the power is a gross overestimate, so I'd dismiss that portion of the quote.


To deal with the concern you were pointing me towards though, what the quote is saying is that extended journeys at motorway speeds, will decrease the range available from an EV. That's perfectly correct. However, as I mentioned in the initial post, I don't do a lot of distance in the commute, at motorway speeds. This isn't on account of my driving style or anything so personal, it's simply because the average traffic speed (excluding towns, villages etc..) on my route is ~90Km/h, and at these speeds the range is still entirely sufficient to meet my needs.

As to exactly how far the car will travel at 120Km/h, you'll have to either ask some of the others, or come back to me in about 6 weeks. ;)

subway

I'm guessing an 06 civic worth around 7k?
So 18k to change, presuming it's a new ev since they are pointless second hand, or do you still get the free charger?

-Corkie-

ottostreet wrote: »

Electric car threads are popping up far too regularly for my liking these days

Lol come back back Skoda Octavia TDI threads all is forgiven...

subway

extremetaz wrote: »

..was that in this thread? Missed it if so.

It's correct to a point. The amount of energy required to move through air at increasing velocity, increases exponentially, so it is correct to say that the Leaf will use a hell of a lot more power travelling at 120Km/h as opposed to 100Km/h, and even more again that 80km/h.

However, doubling the power is a gross overestimate, so I'd dismiss that portion of the quote.

It wasn't here, it came up on another thread and no owner disagreed with it, iirc.

subway

subway wrote: »

I'm guessing an 06 civic worth around 7k?
So 18k to change, presuming it's a new ev since they are pointless second hand, or do you still get the free charger?

So if the fuel savings are 54 per week, the tax and insurance are another 6 perhaps, that's a saving of 60 per week, say 80 including maintenance, 18000 divided by 80 is .....

SO using those rough figures in 225 weeks you will have a 2012 leaf rather than an 06 civic for the same spends fRom now, not a bad deal really

extremetaz

RoverJames wrote: »

So you're not answering the question asked

subway wrote: »

since you keep bringing up the loan, how many years are you extending your paymends by?

subway wrote: »

I'm guessing an 06 civic worth around 7k?
So 18k to change, presuming it's a new ev since they are pointless second hand, or do you still get the free charger?

aaaah - so ye are getting at the complete capital cost.

I have 18months left on the loan for the Civic.

The trade in is clearing that outright with a little left over.

The new finance will last 5 years.



... the thing is this though... I've had a motorloan, spanning multiple cars and motorbikes, for the last 14 years... This is why I wasn't getting the question. I wasn't deliberately being evasive I just wasn't getting the point of that analysis.

Bottom line, if I didn't change the Civic for the Leaf... I was going to change it for something else anyways. Most likely an '08 or newer deisel of some description. The thing is, that would still have left me with a motorloan, albeit slightly reduced rather than increase, and also still have left me with a monsterous fuel bill in any case.

In short - I'd still not have been significantly better off than I presently am.


As for keeping the Civic and getting the finance out of the picture altogether, I did consider that, but the bottom line is that I need to cut my costs NOW, not in a year and half's time.

*edit:
oh - and yes, you do get a free charger. ESB install that before you take delivery of the car.

*edit again:
you meant if you buy the EV secondhand.. no idea. Having said that, pending a Nissan healthcheck, I'd have had no problem buying a secondhand one if it was available.

extremetaz

subway wrote: »

It wasn't here, it came up on another thread and no owner disagreed with it, iirc.

and nor should they - it's reasonably correct.

going faster.... requires more fuel.... why is that surprising exactly??

subway

Because with an ev you have feck all fuel to spare and it takes a few hors to refill, honestly thought that was quit obvious...



I've never had a carloan and always trade up for cash so it's always interesting to see people "saving" huge amounts of money by buying new cars. Never mind the interest costs.

Given your situation, would compare the ev to an alternative new car, not the old civic, tbh.

Zubeneschamali

extremetaz wrote: »

going faster.... requires more fuel.... why is that surprising exactly??

30 minutes range from fully charged at motorway speeds is beyond surprising, it's absolutely shocking the first time you hear it, and rules an EV right out for many people.

extremetaz

subway wrote: »

Because with an ev you have feck all fuel to spare and it takes a few hors to refill, honestly thought that was quit obvious...

On my commute I'd expect a minimum of 40% "fuel to spare"

25mins on a DC fastcharge will bring it from 0% -> 80%, or 7 hours from 0% -> 100% on the standard charger.

Either are easily manageable within the working day - and I've already stated several times that EV's require planned journeys and that flexibility is not the forté right now. So the point is largely moot.

They WILL do motorway speeds and they WILLl do them for significant distances. They'll just go farther to a charge if you're travelling slower.

That's it - that's all - it genuinely is that simple and it genuinely is exactly the same story with an IC motor.

subway wrote: »

I've never had a carloan and always trade up for cash so it's always interesting to see people "saving" huge amounts of money by buying new cars. Never mind the interest costs.

Ordinarily I'd agree with you - and if I could afford my motorloan and €400/month in fuel, I'd carry on regardless. However - I cannot condone spending €400/month in fuel - it's time for a change, and this is the best option I've found.

subway wrote: »

Given your situation, would compare the ev to an alternative new car, not the old civic, tbh.

I've done my maths, and my homework, and spent a full day and a half doing up a cost benefit spreadsheet mapping out our travel patterns throughout the year and factoring in every alternative to using the car. I've even factored in the benefits of having a night rate meter at the house and how we can use that to cut our heating bill and get better value out of any other appliances that are heavy on juice.

Bottom line, this is the right choice for me.

May not be for you - but as I've said several times, I'm not here to convert people, just to add my voice to the guys already here and to hopefully glean some info for now, and contribute some in the future.

extremetaz

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

30 minutes range from fully charged at motorway speeds is beyond surprising, it's absolutely shocking the first time you hear it, and rules an EV right out for many people.

LOL!

Taking that as a worst case scenario, and assuming there's any truth behind it at all 30 minutes range at 120km/h is still 40 MILES!!

You're telling me that's not sufficient for at least a decent portion of the commuting populous??


As I keep saying, they may not suit you personally, but that doesn't mean they can't do the job.


*edit: few quick sums to throw that 40miles (60km) into perspective.
Taking my fuel consumption,
60km X2 in the Civic = €11.64 (50mpg @ €1.67/L)
x5 = €58.20

60km X2 in the Leaf = €3.24
x5 = €16.20

Meaning fuels savings of €42 per week.

The motor finance situation will vary from family to family naturally, but for anyone like myself, and I'd like to think I'm at least somewhat representative, the savings are still there.

gunnerfitzy

RoverJames wrote: »

So if the fuel savings are 54 per week, the tax and insurance are another 6 perhaps, that's a saving of 60 per week, say 80 including maintenance, 18000 divided by 80 is .....

SO using those rough figures in 225 weeks you will have a 2012 leaf rather than an 06 civic for the same spends fRom now, not a bad deal really

How much did your insurance work out at? What companies quoted?

extremetaz

gunnerfitzy wrote: »

How much did your insurance work out at? What companies quoted?

I've only quoted for the transfer so far as I'm not up until September. I'm with aviva so I just rang them. They said it's not on the system yet but will be by renewal time. In the meantime they're quoting me at the equivalent rate to a micra. Which amounts to a rebate of about €50 over the rest of the policy duration.

Zubeneschamali

extremetaz wrote: »

30 minutes range at 120km/h is still 40 MILES!!

That's why we see all those cars with 1 gallon tanks, right? Because 40 miles is plenty!

RoverZT

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

That's why we see all those cars with 1 gallon tanks, right? Because 40 miles is plenty!

If you take a wrong turn like I have a few times on the M50, you will be calling the AA to pick you up:D

RoverZT

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

30 minutes range from fully charged at motorway speeds is beyond surprising, it's absolutely shocking the first time you hear it, and rules an EV right out for many people.

That is shocking, you have to drive like a granny I suppose to get range.

Days of fast driving are over in that joke, pity too as it has instant torque.

If you did bomb it on, accelerating from 120 -160 kmh on numerous occasions as you would do if you had a good car, would it even last 15 minutes?

beazee

RoverZT wrote: »

If you did bomb it on, accelerating from 120 -160 kmh on numerous occasions as you would do if you had a good car

Not the best idea really. €80 and 2 points each time you're pulled over.

BorneTobyWilde

Electric not for everyone,
But fact is there are alot of grannies on road

Matt Simis

The range at high speeds seem at odds with these guys but the math is surely correct:
http://www.rimac-automobili.com/evaluation-vehicles/e-m3-evaluation-vehicle-11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX-_azD2vNo

Snow/Winter testing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTlyqNLe2Jo

RoverZT

beazee wrote: »

Not the best idea really. €80 and 2 points each time you're pulled over.

Ok kitty.

An emergency scenario.