How to leave the Catholic church?

Stinicker

I understand that you could could leave the Catholic Church before but that they changed some rules last year. I want to officially excluded from their Church and will never set foot in a church again with the exception of my parents funerals when that sad day will come and should my sister ever marry.

Do I have to write a letter to the bishop or how does it work?

Thanks

doomed

Apparently you run backwards around a church three times shouting "rhubarb rhubarb" and that's it.

Seriously, it does not matter. You simply vote with your feet. Once you decide to go you are gone. Why would you need permission?

Stinicker

doomed wrote: »

Apparently you run backwards around a church three times shouting "rhubarb rhubarb" and that's it.

Seriously, it does not matter. You simply vote with your feet. Once you decide to go you are gone. Why would you need permission?

I don't need permission I just want myself struck of their list of followers and it be recorded in Church records that I no longer wish to be a member of their Religion.

stimpson

Stinicker wrote: »

I don't need permission I just want myself struck of their list of followers and it be recorded in Church records that I no longer wish to be a member of their Religion.

They stopped all that business a couple of years ago. It might be fun to get excommunicated though.

Sonics2k

Stinicker wrote: »

I don't need permission I just want myself struck of their list of followers and it be recorded in Church records that I no longer wish to be a member of their Religion.

They don't allow it anymore. Kinda makes you wonder why really.

Manach

Well, should the OP ever in future wish to change his/her mind the door into the Church is always open to people re-discovering their faith or converts.

marketty

Sonics2k wrote: »

They don't allow it anymore. Kinda makes you wonder why really.

Because they like to claim they are the biggest religion in the world so would prefer to keep you on the books from baptism to death

eviltwin

Good luck OP...even when the "count me out" system was open I still had to jump through hoops to get there. I actually doubt that my name was ever actually taken off the register. Voting with your feet is the best thing you can do.

stimpson

eviltwin wrote: »

Good luck OP...even when the "count me out" system was open I still had to jump through hoops to get there. I actually doubt that my name was ever actually taken off the register.

Freedom of information request FTW.

eviltwin

stimpson wrote: »

Freedom of information request FTW.

Never thought of that. Cheers!

Doc Farrell

Stinicker wrote: »

I understand that you could could leave the Catholic Church before but that they changed some rules last year. I want to officially excluded from their Church and will never set foot in a church again with the exception of my parents funerals when that sad day will come and should my sister ever marry.

Do I have to write a letter to the bishop or how does it work?

Thanks

So the church is good enough for your parents and your sister but not of a high enough standard for you? Why don't you try changing it from the inside unless you are an atheist in which case why are you not out enjoying yourself instead of bothering priests and bishops with paperwork.

There are many ways to get excommunicated, just get stuck into one.

Or, if you have so much time on your hands, join a charity and get stuck into something real and useful instead of typing on a Christianity forum.

odonopenmic

I feel for you. I had defected and then the Church moved the goal post so now I can't leave.

I tried to get excommunicated (but I was told by the Diocesan lawyer that "we would only excommunicate someone if we thought they still wanted to be part of the Church"). It's a bizarre system that, from what he said, seems intrinsically based on cruel and unusual punishment. If I want to be a Catholic, I could get turfed. If I don't want to be a Catholic, they will hold onto me.

I was told, and I quote, "once baptised, you cannot be unbaptised". And on that basis, that I could never ever leave the Church.

I know people say vote with your feet and I agree. I just wish there were more that could be done that would formally recognise my stance. I never realised how much of a difference it would mean to me until I felt a massive weight off my shoulders following the receipt of my baptismal cert with the the large DEFECTED in red lettering. It might sound really trivial but to me, it was the first time I've ever been allowed to choose my own course when it came to religion and it really meant a lot. More than just not attending/subscribing to the beliefs.

I'm still furious and sad about this - I've never been made to feel so powerless in my life. I was told that I could keep writing to Rome but it could take years and then maybe not even come to fruition.

PDN

odonopenmic wrote: »

I tried to get excommunicated (but I was told by the Diocesan lawyer that "we would only excommunicate someone if we thought they still wanted to be part of the Church"). It's a bizarre system that, from what he said, seems intrinsically based on cruel and unusual punishment. If I want to be a Catholic, I could get turfed. If I don't want to be a Catholic, they will hold onto me.

That isn't actually true - an excommunicated Catholic remains a Catholic according to the teachings of the Church.

I'm not sure what the big fuss is about. If an organisation chooses to keep your name on their list of imaginary members then surely that is no skin off your nose?

doctoremma

PDN wrote: »

I'm not sure what the big fuss is about. If an organisation chooses to keep your name on their list of imaginary members then surely that is no skin off your nose?

I agree with this somewhat. I defected from the Catholic Church by not going to mass (although never went voluntarily anyway) and ticking a different box on any census/official paperwork. That's enough for me (at the moment).

When totting up numbers, I'd say a census holds more accurate information than church records?

Edit to say: I might feel more strongly if I lived somewhere where Catholicism claimed a majority and was inextricably linked with governance, law and society.

JimiTime

Welcome to the Hotel California.

odonopenmic

PDN wrote: »

I'm not sure what the big fuss is about. If an organisation chooses to keep your name on their list of imaginary members then surely that is no skin off your nose?

I would get p£$$ed off with an organisation if it refused to take me off their mailing list/gives my details to third parties/counts me as a member without my consent.

I never consented to being a Catholic, in any true sense. On my first go, I was six months old and was spoken for - damage done right there as I was baptised. And of course, someone will say about confirmation - as a twelve year old, being told that I had to attend an extra-curricular religion class, that I had to make my confirmation etc. It was never presented as a choice and to be honest, it felt a lot more like coercion - "just go along with it and don't make trouble". If I'd realised then what I know now, I would have walked out halfway through the mass, which I was very close to doing at the time.

I know that this shouldn't be a big deal but it is! I never joined so the idea that I can't leave is just ridiculous. I think leaving is a really personal thing - I don't look at Catholics and ask "why do you stay?" I don't look at non-practising, technically Catholic people and ask "why don't you try and formally leave?" It completely depends on the person, what works for them and what rests easy with them - that's all that's important. So while I respect your questioning why this matters so much, please respect my answering that it just does, on a deeply personal level.

lmaopml

Stinicker wrote: »

I understand that you could could leave the Catholic Church before but that they changed some rules last year. I want to officially excluded from their Church and will never set foot in a church again with the exception of my parents funerals when that sad day will come and should my sister ever marry.

Do I have to write a letter to the bishop or how does it work?

Thanks

Hi Stiniker, as far as I am aware some Parishes are still marking you off as defected from the baptismal register. You should check with your own Parish where you were Baptised. In order not to be Catholic all you have to do is really vote with your feet to be honest - As doctoremma implied the Census is what really matters as far as planning is concerned if that is important to you. The Baptismal register is only keeping on record that you received the Sacrament in the past iykwim - you cannot receive the others without receiving the first, so if you ever wished to marry in the Church then of course you would have to be a Catholic and so on....

Also, I know you had a thread a while back and that you were looking for an alternative Christian religion - in that sense your Baptism still counts. You were Baptised a Christian too - Likewise a person from another Christian religion would be recognised as being baptised if they became Catholic in most cases. Anyway, best of luck - I hope you find peace.

stimpson

odonopenmic wrote: »

I tried to get excommunicated (but I was told by the Diocesan lawyer that "we would only excommunicate someone if we thought they still wanted to be part of the Church").

Now that's not strictly true. Excommunication can be either latae sententiae (automatic, incurred at the moment of committing the offence for which canon law imposes that penalty); or it can ferendae sententiae (incurred only when imposed by a legitimate superior or declared as the sentence of an ecclesiastical court).

Now most of the reasons for Excommunicaiton latae sententiae revolve around weird things like bishops who do things like ordain women, or violating the seal of confession (very topical at the moment). One of the few avenues would be to use physical force on the pope or a bishop - See here: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P53.HTM

Now I doubt you'd get close enough to the pope, but I'd say you'd have a fair crack at a bishop. I don't know if physically restraining a bishop would be sufficient, or if you'd have to bash a bishop, but it seems to be the most accessible way.

lmaopml

stimpson wrote: »

Now I doubt you'd get close enough to the pope, but I'd say you'd have a fair crack at a bishop. I don't know if physically restraining a bishop would be sufficient, or if you'd have to bash a bishop, but it seems to be the most accessible way.

huh?

How odd. Boards is great init...lol...


You're kidding though right?

Onesimus

odonopenmic wrote: »

I would get p£$$ed off with an organisation if it refused to take me off their mailing list/gives my details to third parties/counts me as a member without my consent.

I never consented to being a Catholic, in any true sense. On my first go, I was six months old and was spoken for - damage done right there as I was baptised. And of course, someone will say about confirmation - as a twelve year old, being told that I had to attend an extra-curricular religion class, that I had to make my confirmation etc. It was never presented as a choice and to be honest, it felt a lot more like coercion - "just go along with it and don't make trouble". If I'd realised then what I know now, I would have walked out halfway through the mass, which I was very close to doing at the time.

I know that this shouldn't be a big deal but it is! I never joined so the idea that I can't leave is just ridiculous. I think leaving is a really personal thing - I don't look at Catholics and ask "why do you stay?" I don't look at non-practising, technically Catholic people and ask "why don't you try and formally leave?" It completely depends on the person, what works for them and what rests easy with them - that's all that's important. So while I respect your questioning why this matters so much, please respect my answering that it just does, on a deeply personal level.

Look. You never had a choice of what play school you went to or when you had a bad tooth and needed to get a filling but your parents made you get it filled because they know whats good for you and they are your guardians and they do whats best for you in life until you reach the appropiate age you do what they say when you are under their roof. Even if you didnt want to go, you went whether you liked it or not because it was whats best for you in life. Children dont have the ability to know whats good for them this is why the presence of an elder is important. And I dont hear you whinging and moaning about any of this.

Now that your older and over the age of 18 you now have the deciding power to go to the dentist or not. To go to whatever school you want and try leave whatever organisation you wish. But from looking at this post all I see is a type of little spoiled brat behaviour whinging and moaning about his name being on some church record.

I've got many of my names on different things I signed up to and still considered a member of their website or group but I just left. I dont go and battle them to terminate my membership because it just doesnt matter to me. Whether or not your name is on Church record you will always be a baptised Catholic and this is unchangable. This shouldnt matter to you though if you dont believe in God or believe that the Catholic Church is the true Church even if you have retained your belief in God because according to your belief that the Catholic churches view of God is the wrong one, then there is no baptism.

Your decision to battle this is just because you dont want the Church to have the great ''numbers'' because if they do then they are seen as ''all powerful''. Ultimately what you want is not to just leave, but the Catholic Church to leave the face of the earth. You have a hatred in your heart for Catholicism and your on a wee mission to express that hatred and kill the Church. :rolleyes::D come on my friend that aint never going to happen, soSuck it up and get on with your life man for goodness sake. :cool: Go buy a goldfish or something. Take a walk on the sahara and enjoy the sunshine.

stimpson

lmaopml wrote: »

huh?

How odd. Boards is great init...lol...


You're kidding though right?

Just trying to answer odonopenmic's question.

There are precious few options open to the lay would-be-excommunicatee.

eviltwin

Onesimus wrote: »

Look. You never had a choice of what play school you went to or when you had a bad tooth and needed to get a filling but your parents made you get it filled because they know whats good for you and they are your guardians and they do whats best for you in life until you reach the appropiate age you do what they say when you are under their roof. Even if you didnt want to go, you went whether you liked it or not because it was whats best for you in life. Children dont have the ability to know whats good for them this is why the presence of an elder is important. And I dont hear you whinging and moaning about any of this.

Now that your older and over the age of 18 you now have the deciding power to go to the dentist or not. To go to whatever school you want and try leave whatever organisation you wish. But from looking at this post all I see is a type of little spoiled brat behaviour whinging and moaning about his name being on some church record.

I've got many of my names on different things I signed up to and still considered a member of their website or group but I just left. I dont go and battle them to terminate my membership because it just doesnt matter to me. Whether or not your name is on Church record you will always be a baptised Catholic and this is unchangable. This shouldnt matter to you though if you dont believe in God or believe that the Catholic Church is the true Church even if you have retained your belief in God because according to your belief that the Catholic churches view of God is the wrong one, then there is no baptism.

Your decision to battle this is just because you dont want the Church to have the great ''numbers'' because if they do then they are seen as ''all powerful''. Ultimately what you want is not to just leave, but the Catholic Church to leave the face of the earth. You have a hatred in your heart for Catholicism and your on a wee mission to express that hatred and kill the Church. :rolleyes::D come on my friend that aint never going to happen, soSuck it up and get on with your life man for goodness sake. :cool: Go buy a goldfish or something. Take a walk on the sahara and enjoy the sunshine.

Very unfair to make an assumption about the reasons why this poster wants to make his or her decision to leave formal.

Onesimus

eviltwin wrote: »

Very unfair to make an assumption about the reasons why this poster wants to make his or her decision to leave formal.

and so what? let him come back and prove me wrong then. Whether or not he is lying about why he wants to leave when he replies is on his head at the end of the day. I had my say and thats that.

I can assume all I want in this case. But for me they are pretty close enough assumptions.

Onesimus

Bannasidhe

I was lucky - I got out before they shut the gate.

I absolutely and utterly disagree with everything that denomination stands for so there was no way I wanted to be on any kind of record as a Roman Catholic. :mad:

lmaopml

stimpson wrote: »

Just trying to answer odonopenmic's question.

There are precious few options open to the lay would-be-excommunicatee.

*steps carefully away*

Well, it was really nice talking to you strange internet person. :pac:

stimpson

lmaopml wrote: »

*steps carefully away*

Well, it was really nice talking to you strange internet person. :pac:

Hey - I don't make the rules.

Sonics2k

Onesimus wrote: »

Look. You never had a choice of what play school you went to or when you had a bad tooth and needed to get a filling but your parents made you get it filled because they know whats good for you and they are your guardians and they do whats best for you in life until you reach the appropiate age you do what they say when you are under their roof. Even if you didnt want to go, you went whether you liked it or not because it was whats best for you in life. Children dont have the ability to know whats good for them this is why the presence of an elder is important. And I dont hear you whinging and moaning about any of this.

Now that your older and over the age of 18 you now have the deciding power to go to the dentist or not. To go to whatever school you want and try leave whatever organisation you wish. But from looking at this post all I see is a type of little spoiled brat behaviour whinging and moaning about his name being on some church record.

I've got many of my names on different things I signed up to and still considered a member of their website or group but I just left. I dont go and battle them to terminate my membership because it just doesnt matter to me. Whether or not your name is on Church record you will always be a baptised Catholic and this is unchangable. This shouldnt matter to you though if you dont believe in God or believe that the Catholic Church is the true Church even if you have retained your belief in God because according to your belief that the Catholic churches view of God is the wrong one, then there is no baptism.

Your decision to battle this is just because you dont want the Church to have the great ''numbers'' because if they do then they are seen as ''all powerful''. Ultimately what you want is not to just leave, but the Catholic Church to leave the face of the earth. You have a hatred in your heart for Catholicism and your on a wee mission to express that hatred and kill the Church. :rolleyes::D come on my friend that aint never going to happen, soSuck it up and get on with your life man for goodness sake. :cool: Go buy a goldfish or something. Take a walk on the sahara and enjoy the sunshine.

It's funny how Catholics take this view, especially when you consider that Ratzinger was a member of the Hitler Youth.

Of course the defense here is that "he was forced into it" so it doesn't really count and it's not his fault, but funnily enough it changes when we talk about Baptism.

I'm happy I wasn't baptized personally, but I'd like to know that if I was I'd be able to remove myself from the list of registered Catholics.

It'd be like me joining the Fianna Fail party 10 years ago, you could be damn sure that if I wanted to leave the party because I want no further association with them, or for them to claim I'm a part of their belief system.

People do not want to be associated, and while it's fine for the Vatican to have a record that people were members at some point, they can at least be moved to a separate file saying "Former member" or something similar.

lmaopml

stimpson wrote: »

Hey - I don't make the rules.

You could have done this instead Or I liked the run around the Church shouting rhubarb three times option from earlier - but hey each to their own

stimpson

lmaopml wrote: »

You could have done this instead Or I liked the run around the Church shouting rhubarb three times option from earlier - but hey each to their own

I'm not sure how that helps with his question. If you know of an easier way to get excommunicated, I'm all ears.

PDN

stimpson wrote: »

I'm not sure how that helps with his question. If you know of an easier way to get excommunicated, I'm all ears.

Actually the question was about leaving the Catholic Church, not excommunication.

Excommunication does not stop you being a Catholic, but is designed to bring disobedient Catholics back to obedience.

stimpson

PDN wrote: »

Actually the question was about leaving the Catholic Church, not excommunication.

Excommunication does not stop you being a Catholic, but is designed to bring disobedient Catholics back to obedience.

I was referencing this post where odonopenmic was told he couldn't be excommunicated.

I'm aware it doesn't stop you being a Catholic, but as a Catholic it's his right to be excommunicated if he wants to be.

lmaopml

stimpson wrote: »

I'm not sure how that helps with his question. If you know of an easier way to get excommunicated, I'm all ears.

Sorry, back to the serious business of how to be excommunicated - Sorry op - and everybody else seeing Spiderman in stereo.


Continue...

Benny_Cake

This seems to come up every couple of weeks, there must be a lot of people out there who are annoyed with their parents!

OP, your baptismal record is just that, a record that you were baptised. The Catholic church doesn't use them as a means of counting how many members they have, for that they would rely on the census. So if you don't consider yourself Catholic, and don't claim to be Catholic, then I think you can safely say that you aren't one.

eviltwin

Benny_Cake wrote: »

This seems to come up every couple of weeks, there must be a lot of people out there who are annoyed with their parents!

OP, your baptismal record is just that, a record that you were baptised. The Catholic church doesn't use them as a means of counting how many members they have, for that they would rely on the census. So if you don't consider yourself Catholic, and don't claim to be Catholic, then I think you can safely say that you aren't one.

Is it really as simple as that? I had to have interviews in Archbishops Palace!

Why then did they shut off the count me out facility.

Bannasidhe

Benny_Cake wrote: »

This seems to come up every couple of weeks, there must be a lot of people out there who are annoyed with their parents!

OP, your baptismal record is just that, a record that you were baptised. The Catholic church doesn't use them as a means of counting how many members they have, for that they would rely on the census. So if you don't consider yourself Catholic, and don't claim to be Catholic, then I think you can safely say that you aren't one.

I've been doing family research for people and I use parish records, now should my great-great-great grandchildren decide to do the same and they go and check out my baptismal cert I want them to read the words DEFECTED and know that I officially rejected the Roman Catholic Church and all it stands for.

My great grandfather defected back in the 1930s - too much Rome Rule in the Free State for his tastes. I was so proud to read his baptismal cert and see he was a man of principle who was brave enough to stand by his beliefs.

Brer Fox

The Church records are simply statements of fact. If an individual was baptised, then that is a fact which the Church records. The Church is very much entitled to keep records of who has been baptised.

Benny_Cake

eviltwin wrote: »

Benny_Cake wrote: »

This seems to come up every couple of weeks, there must be a lot of people out there who are annoyed with their parents!

OP, your baptismal record is just that, a record that you were baptised. The Catholic church doesn't use them as a means of counting how many members they have, for that they would rely on the census. So if you don't consider yourself Catholic, and don't claim to be Catholic, then I think you can safely say that you aren't one.

Is it really as simple as that? I had to have interviews in Archbishops Palace!

Why then did they shut off the count me out facility.

I honestly don't know why they closed off that facility. I think that it's regrettable that they did, I was just saying that from the OP's point of view it should be pretty irrelevant what the church would think.

eamo12

"Ultimately what you want is not to just leave, but the Catholic Church to leave the face of the earth. You have a hatred in your heart for Catholicism and your on a wee mission to express that hatred and kill the Church. come on my friend that aint never going to happen, soSuck it up and get on with your life man for goodness sake. Go buy a goldfish or something. Take a walk on the sahara and enjoy the sunshine."

Well said, some people have a lot of hate in their heart.

Bannasidhe

Brer Fox wrote: »

The Church records are simply statements of fact. If an individual was baptised, then that is a fact which the Church records. The Church is very much entitled to keep records of who has been baptised.

and an individual is very much entitled to have that record amended to show they rejected the Catholic church.

DERPY HOOFS

You should stay on the catholic list though in case god checks the naughty or nice list.
Better to be safe than sorry.You may go into a church and ask to be taken off the list, next thing you are getting a exorcizm....

MadsL

eamo12 wrote: »

"Ultimately what you want is not to just leave, but the Catholic Church to leave the face of the earth. You have a hatred in your heart for Catholicism and your on a wee mission to express that hatred and kill the Church. come on my friend that aint never going to happen, soSuck it up and get on with your life man for goodness sake. Go buy a goldfish or something. Take a walk on the sahara and enjoy the sunshine."

Well said, some people have a lot of hate in their heart.

If (and I use the word IF) I was abused by a member of the church, I would want the fact that I am no longer a member of that church noted and recorded. I don't feel that that church should have any right to count me as a member. Would you disagree?

Or should I not express my abhorrence of my former abuser's organisation because that would be "hatred"? Rather patronising responses to tell this person to go take a walk tbh.

gimmebroadband

I'm wondering, do those who want to leave the CC leave because they no longer believe/agree with the faith, or is it just because they don't like the clergy/hierachy?

Sonics2k

gimmebroadband wrote: »

I'm wondering, do those who want to leave the CC leave because they no longer believe/agree with the faith, or is it just because they don't like the clergy/hierachy?

Bit of both really, and each option is viable.

eviltwin

gimmebroadband wrote: »

I'm wondering, do those who want to leave the CC leave because they no longer believe/agree with the faith, or is it just because they don't like the clergy/hierachy?

Both. I don't believe in god or the bible so I always wanted to leave. After the Murphy report I could take no more. No hatred here but being a member no longer sat right with me.

Doc Farrell

eviltwin wrote: »

Is it really as simple as that? I had to have interviews in Archbishops Palace!

Why then did they shut off the count me out facility.

I think I've located the reason! What did you say there?!

Adamas

Sonics2k wrote: »

They don't allow it anymore. Kinda makes you wonder why really.

They own you because your parents signed you over as property in trust to them in exchange for supposed benefits. It's basic contract law.

eviltwin

Doc Farrell wrote: »

I think I've located the reason! What did you say there?!

It was a complete waste of time to be honest

Brer Fox

Bannasidhe wrote: »

and an individual is very much entitled to have that record amended to show they rejected the Catholic church.

Yes and that is the case now - a note is made on the entry to say that the person no longer considers themselves a practising Catholic or some variant on that theme. But the entry itself is a matter of historical record.

Bannasidhe

Brer Fox wrote: »

Yes and that is the case now - a note is made on the entry to say that the person no longer considers themselves a practising Catholic or some variant on that theme. But the entry itself is a matter of historical record.

No it's not. A note is now made in a separate book indicating the person expressed an interest in defecting. That is not at all the same thing as amending the record or making a note on the record.

Onesimus

MadsL wrote: »

If (and I use the word IF) I was abused by a member of the church, I would want the fact that I am no longer a member of that church noted and recorded. I don't feel that that church should have any right to count me as a member. Would you disagree?

Or should I not express my abhorrence of my former abuser's organisation because that would be "hatred"? Rather patronising responses to tell this person to go take a walk tbh.

It was not the Church who abused anyone. It was a ''man'' or a ''woman'' if we are talking about nuns in an isolated case or the many bishops who covered up and so on. These people are but a minority in a Church that is made up of many good people who practice what they preach.

To see someone attempt to write off their name of some record and spending their entire life trying to do so, says a lot more about the reasons behind as to why that person would want to do so, and what it is thats going on inside them rather than just settling the case, seeking the therapy they need to help them cope with such a nasty crime commited upon them and then doing their very best to get on with their lives.

If (and I mean IF ) I was abused by a member of the Church I'd simply have the case settled with the person who abused me and understand that the Church didnt abuse me and that there are many good people in there that make up that Church, just as there are many good Gardai in the force or any other religion such as Islam or Hinduism. Ya cant paint everyone with the same brush just because some men and women commited a crime within that organization. A crime that contradicts the very morals of that organization which is love.

So if I did have a desire to write my name off the record and spend my whole life trying to do so, would just tell me that I've got more than just a case to settle but that in my heart I really truly just want to wipe them off the face of the earth because some of us dont want to settle the case with a ''man'' who abused us, we want to hate and kill the Church in which we see as the one who abused us when they didnt, it was a couple of judas's and wiping the Church off the face of the earth? We all know that aint never going to happen just because our name is off some record.

And thats coming from a household where my parents were abused also in the past by Brothers, Nuns and priests etc. Yet their ability to settle it and get on with being a good Christian says a lot to me to be honest. I therefore can at least grasp some of the pain that many go through but running around trying to wipe your name off a sheet of paper is not going to help you it will actually make matters worse in my opinion.

Zombrex

Onesimus wrote: »

It was not the Church who abused anyone. It was a ''man'' or a ''woman'' if we are talking about nuns in an isolated case or the many bishops who covered up and so on. These people are but a minority in a Church that is made up of many good people who practice what they preach.

To see someone attempt to write off their name of some record and spending their entire life trying to do so, says a lot more about the reasons behind as to why that person would want to do so, and what it is thats going on inside them rather than just settling the case, seeking the therapy they need to help them cope with such a nasty crime commited upon them and then doing their very best to get on with their lives.

If (and I mean IF ) I was abused by a member of the Church I'd simply have the case settled with the person who abused me and understand that the Church didnt abuse me and that there are many good people in there that make up that Church, just as there are many good Gardai in the force or any other religion such as Islam or Hinduism. Ya cant paint everyone with the same brush just because some men and women commited a crime within that organization. A crime that contradicts the very morals of that organization which is love.

So if I did have a desire to write my name off the record and spend my whole life trying to do so, would just tell me that I've got more than just a case to settle but that in my heart I really truly just want to wipe them off the face of the earth because some of us dont want to settle the case with a ''man'' who abused us, we want to hate and kill the Church in which we see as the one who abused us when they didnt, it was a couple of judas's and wiping the Church off the face of the earth? We all know that aint never going to happen just because our name is off some record.

And thats coming from a household where my parents were abused also in the past by Brothers, Nuns and priests etc. Yet their ability to settle it and get on with being a good Christian says a lot to me to be honest. I therefore can at least grasp some of the pain that many go through but running around trying to wipe your name off a sheet of paper is not going to help you it will actually make matters worse in my opinion.

At what point does something become the "Church"? Using your logic you could say the church doesn't care about people or preach love and compassion, that is just something that some people in the church do.

It seems like you want to have your cake and eat it.