Is there any way our children can escape having to do Irish in Primary school?

LordSutch

We are both Irish and we both had to do Irish in primary school, and then in secondary school, and then (as with the majority of the Irish population) neither of us ever used the language again (apart from the cupla focal). Now we have children of our own and the cycle is to begin again, our children will do compulsive Irish in Primary school, and then again in secondary school until they are seventeen or eighteen years of age, they will then go out into the big wide world, and . . . . .

Apart from declaring that our children are dyslexic, is there any way they can escape Irish lessons?

endacl

LordSutch wrote: »

We are both Irish and we both had to do Irish in primary school, and then in secondary school, and then (as with the majority of the Irish population) neither of us ever used the language again (apart from the cupla focal). Now we have children of our own and the cycle is to begin again, our children will do compulsive Irish in Primary school, and then again in secondary school until they are seventeen or eighteen years of age, they will then go out into the big wide world, and . . . . .

Apart from declaring that our children are dyslexic, is there any way they can escape Irish lessons?

Train to Belfast for school every day. Or get over it. Compulsory by the way. Compulsive would be different story..

longhalloween

Or just move to Belfast. Then come home once the kids are over 11.

LordSutch

So is Belfast the only place in Northern Ireland where schools don't have compulsive Irish?

SomeGuyCalledMi

Send you children to a gaelscoil. They will speak fluent Irish before their 6th birthday and they will never have to worry about it again.

endacl

longhalloween wrote: »

Or just move to Belfast. Then come home once the kids are over 11.

Come to think of it, Newry might be handier. Won't be as many schools to choose from though. And they'll have a state curriculum to follow too. Life sucks.

longhalloween

LordSutch wrote: »

So is Belfast the only place in Northern Ireland where schools don't have compulsive Irish?

Or Newry? That's the only 2 towns I know. Is Derry a town as well as a county?

greendom

it's great for kids to get an early experience of learning a 2nd language, even if it isn't a particularly useful one - do you really want to deprive them of that ?

Stripey Cat

If it's compulsive, then you won't be able to stop them.

darlett

Genuine question...Irish is compulsory, but does it actually matter if at the end of day, a pupil doesnt sit his/her Irish exam? They fail it, moving forward does it affect them? Does it perhaps stop them getting into college as a basic requirement? And if it does, what about if they get a pass in foundation?

dlofnep

It's a compulsory part of the Irish curriculum. Get over it, or home-school them if you feel that strongly about it.

LordSutch

greendom wrote: »

it's great for kids to get an early experience of learning a 2nd language, even if it isn't a particularly useful one - do you really want to deprive them of that ?

We visit the German side of the family at least twice a year, and I have always thought that if I had kids it be great for them to learn and speak German as a 2nd language. I honestly can't see why Irish has to be compulsive in this day and age of travel for work, and family living abroad.

- sorry.

endacl

longhalloween wrote: »

LordSutch wrote: »

So is Belfast the only place in Northern Ireland where schools don't have compulsive Irish?

Or Newry? That's the only 2 towns I know. Is Derry a town as well as a county?

And this is what happens! If only all that time wasted on Irish had been spent on geography. I spent years studying maths. I'm rubbish at maths. Why did I have to study maths?!? All those kids starting school now will also have years if maths ahead of them. They might be rubbish at it too. Waste of time...

Tigger

Geography is compulsory up till junior cert and it seems useless all you. We'd is google maps

endacl

LordSutch wrote: »

greendom wrote: »

it's great for kids to get an early experience of learning a 2nd language, even if it isn't a particularly useful one - do you really want to deprive them of that ?

We visit the German side of the family at least twice a year, and I have always thought that if I had kids it be great for them to learn and speak German as a 2nd language. I honestly can't see why Irish has to be compulsive in this day and age of travel for work, and family living abroad.

- sorry.

Get them German lessons? Why limit them to two languages? Neither of which, with any luck, will be compulsive.

greendom

LordSutch wrote: »

We visit the German side of the family at least twice a year, and I have always thought that if I had kids it be great for them to learn and speak German as a 2nd language. I honestly can't see why Irish has to be compulsive in this day and age of travel for work, and family living abroad.

- sorry.

No need to apologise, it's your choice.

number10a

Exempting from them from Irish also would exempt them from ever becoming a teacher in this country. As primary teachers, they'd obviously need to use it every day. But even in secondary, you need to pass a test in Irish to register as a teacher, regardless of what you're teaching. I know a Welsh guy qualified to teach the science subjects in secondary and he can't do it here because of the Irish requirement. It's stupid, but them's the rules.

LordSutch

Looks like I've walked into the Gaelscoileanna appreciation society here.

Oops.

number10a

Tigger wrote: »

Geography is compulsory up till junior cert and it seems useless all you. We'd is google maps

That depends on the school. In fact, the only subject that is compulsory in Irish secondary schools is Irish. After that, it's up to the school and/or the student. Good luck getting into college without English and Maths of course.

greendom

LordSutch wrote: »

Looks like I've walked into the Gaelscoileanna appreciation society here.

Oops.

I think you have your answer though. No unless you're prepared to move out of the Republic.

LordSutch

Thanks greendom, it looks like there is no escape for our little ones.

endacl

number10a wrote: »

Exempting from them from Irish also would exempt them from ever becoming a teacher in this country. As primary teachers, they'd obviously need to use it every day. But even in secondary, you need to pass a test in Irish to register as a teacher, regardless of what you're teaching. I know a Welsh guy qualified to teach the science subjects in secondary and he can't do it here because of the Irish requirement. It's stupid, but them's the rules.

I registered as a teacher without any mention if an Irish requirement. Did I miss something?

BrianBoru00

number10a wrote: »

Exempting from them from Irish also would exempt them from ever becoming a teacher in this country. As primary teachers, they'd obviously need to use it every day. But even in secondary, you need to pass a test in Irish to register as a teacher, regardless of what you're teaching. I know a Welsh guy qualified to teach the science subjects in secondary and he can't do it here because of the Irish requirement. It's stupid, but them's the rules.

Thats NOT true. Seriously, How do people just make up such rubbish??:mad:

endacl

LordSutch wrote: »

Looks like I've walked into the Gaelscoileanna appreciation society here.

Oops.

Nope. The shoulder-chip spotters AGM. Gaelscoileanna appreciation society is next door.

dlofnep

LordSutch wrote: »

Thanks greendom, it looks like there is no escape for our little ones.

I'm sure they'll live. Who knows, they might even like it.

number10a

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

Thats NOT true. Seriously, How do people just make up such rubbish??:mad:

Going by what two people have told me I thought this was true, one who is Irish with crap Gaeilge who managed a pass, one Welsh who didn't have a snowman's chance in Hell of getting through and now works in a lab instead of teaching science. Maybe it has changed recently since I spoke to these people. But, this is coming straight from people who it directly affected, so forgive me for taking their words for it.

LordSutch

endacl wrote: »

Nope. The shoulder-chip spotters AGM. Gaelscoileanna appreciation society is next door.

Thanks a lot endacl, but original question was genuine, and as I have said in a previous post, Irish will be of little use to our children, while German would be very useful to us as a fimily as we spend a lot of time there with the kids due to family connections. Anyway, it looks like the kids will do Irish in primary & secondary school for the next fourteen years, and that's that

On a side note, we go to a creche three days a week and there are a couple of Polish Mums & Dads (with polish speaking tots) who have asked is it possible to substitute Irish for Polish in school? and obviously its not, but it is interesting to see how the population is changing and how language needs are changing too.

Feeona

LordSutch wrote: »

Thanks a lot endacl, but original question was genuine, and as I have said in a previous post, Irish will be of little use to our children, while German would be very useful to us as a fimily as we spend a lot of time there with the kids due to family connections. Anyway, it looks like the kids will do Irish in primary & secondary school for the next fourteen years, and that's that

On a side note, we go to a creche three days a week and there are a couple of Polish Mums & Dads (with polish speaking tots) who have asked is it possible to substitute Irish for Polish in school? and obviously its not, but it is interesting to see how the population is changing and how language needs are changing too.

I don't know why you're getting such a hard time from other posters over a simple question to be honest! Irish is a good introduction for learning a second language (or third in your childrens' case) It's also nice to be able to read signs as Gaeilge, and have a bit of knowledge about the Irish culture. The kids will be fine with it, get them to teach you a few words, it might revive a bit of interest in the language for you!

As for teaching Polish instead of Irish, it's amazing how quickly foreign nationals pick up Irish. From my experience, they're better at it than the Irish kids!

Stripey Cat

I don't know why you're getting such a hard time from other posters over a simple question to be honest!

It was the repeated use of "compulsive" that got to me.

Seanchai

Feeona wrote: »

I don't know why you're getting such a hard time from other posters over a simple question to be honest!

You're clearly unfamiliar with Lord Sutch's political views on things Irish. The pattern is well established; feigned shock at the existence of some Irish view/tradition etc, and then the standard unionist bigotry: anything but Irish, anything but their culture. You'll find his posts glorifying British imperialism and their poppy commemorations, his posts calling those who fought for Irish freedom throughout the centuries "terrorists" and so on in both the After Hours and Politics fora. His old username was Camelot, and boy did he have "interesting" views on things Irish!

endacl

LordSutch wrote: »

endacl wrote: »

Nope. The shoulder-chip spotters AGM. Gaelscoileanna appreciation society is next door.

Thanks a lot endacl, but original question was genuine, and as I have said in a previous post, Irish will be of little use to our children, while German would be very useful to us as a fimily as we spend a lot of time there with the kids due to family connections. Anyway, it looks like the kids will do Irish in primary & secondary school for the next fourteen years, and that's that

On a side note, we go to a creche three days a week and there are a couple of Polish Mums & Dads (with polish speaking tots) who have asked is it possible to substitute Irish for Polish in school? and obviously its not, but it is interesting to see how the population is changing and how language needs are changing too.

It wasn't so much the question I responded to, as the tone of your post. Perfectly reasonable question, but 'no escape for our little ones'? Come on...

The vast majority of what we learn in school, beyond arithmetic and literacy, is from a utilitarian view, mostly pointless. The 'useful' stuff comes later through higher education and experience. What a child does is develop an ability to learn and to reason, which they will go on to use later in life. Education is about developing facility.

If your child at eight develops a passionate interest in dinosaurs, are you going to ban dinosaur books from the house, as they are extinct and of no use in the modern world?

Let your 'little ones' take advantage of the opportunity to develop their enormous capacity for acquiring language. If Irish is the tool, so what? The ability they develop can then be applied to any language you, in your wisdom, deem useful.

BrianBoru00

number10a wrote: »

Going by what two people have told me I thought this was true, one who is Irish with crap Gaeilge who managed a pass, one Welsh who didn't have a snowman's chance in Hell of getting through and now works in a lab instead of teaching science. Maybe it has changed recently since I spoke to these people. But, this is coming straight from people who it directly affected, so forgive me for taking their words for it.

It hasn't changed recently, they're incorrect, certainly it hasn't been a requirment for the last 20 years

Stripey Cat

Dinosaurs are extinct? How can be so sure? There might be a hidden cave somewhere in a jungle, or under the arctic ice cap.

Even if there is not, a scientist could bring them back to life by cloning them and then put them in a safari park with a dodgy fence...

endacl

Stripey Cat wrote: »

Dinosaurs are extinct? How can be so sure? There might be a hidden cave somewhere in a jungle, or under the arctic ice cap.

Even if there is not, a scientist could bring them back to life by cloning them and then put them in a safari park with a dodgy fence...

While this would indeed be extremely cool, the knowledge of how to do so would not he acquired at either primary or secondary school. If it were though, I would totally ride a brontosaurus to work!

Big Bag of Chips

Just because you don't like something or weren't good at it, doesn't mean your kids will be the same.

I have very different interests to my parents, Irish being one of them! And I expect my kids to have different likes and dislikes to me.

byhookorbycrook

Answer given to original question, so that's the end of that.

LordSutch

Seanchai wrote: »

You're clearly unfamiliar with Lord Sutch's political views on things Irish. The pattern is well established; feigned shock at the existence of some Irish view/tradition etc, and then the standard unionist bigotry: anything but Irish, anything but their culture. You'll find his posts glorifying British imperialism and their poppy commemorations, his posts calling those who fought for Irish freedom throughout the centuries "terrorists" and so on in both the After Hours and Politics fora. His old username was Camelot, and boy did he have "interesting" views on things Irish!

This is the 'Primary & Pre School' forum Seanchai, so there is no need to start one of your After Hour Republican wars here :rolleyes:

I am Irish and my wife is Irish, my kids are Irish too, but I am anti compulsory Irish in schools, and I was against PIRA campaign in which many good people were killed, Seanchai then mentions the poppy which I wear on poppy day (guilty as charged). This thread is about my kids (starting school next year) and whether or not they will have to do compulsory Irish, and like many people in this country I don't speak Irish, and neither will they, but they could put German to good use in the coming years . . . .

That post of yours Seanchai is just so misleading and stabbing, I know that you have Republican leanings, but this is not the Forum for that carry on, let it go and concentrate on the topic at hand please.

Big Bag of Chips

LordSutch wrote: »

but they could put German to good use in the coming years . . . .

They can learn German in secondary school. When we were in 6th class we had German classes in school (paid for as extras!)

But schools are struggling to afford their bins collections, they can't really afford to have an array of languages available at primary level.

LordSutch

Thanks Big Bag of Chips, I know in my heart that they will have to do Irish in Primary & Secondary, but I was curious to see if any fellow parents/
teachers were of the same mind. Seems like I am in a tiny minority here, and judging by one or two posts the very idea of my question is not liked.

I surely do have my answer now, so I'll say goodbye and thanks for your replies.

BYE.

Carlos_Ray

Maybe if you highlighted your reservations about the language to the department of education they'll reassess the policy of teaching Irish as a compulsory subject. I'm sure they've never heard it before :rolleyes:

You're not going to get special treatment. If you're not happy with the Irish education structure, do as previous posters have said, and send your child to a school abroad.

As for German. I've yet to meet a German that doesn't speak English, and in many respects German is a language in decline. Using your logic about Irish, why bother learning to speak German when we can communicate perfectly well with them in English? If you really want your child to speak a "useful" language, send them to mandarin Chinese classes.

greendom

The option of the Gaelscoil is one that should be taken seriously too. If it's going to be learnt why not do it properly? To be bilingual at such an early age is marvellous and should increase their propensity to learn other languages as they get older.

LordSutch

Dear Lord, what is it with (some) of you guys!

I certainly won't be coming back to this forum again in a hurry.

PS I have a long track record of defending the Irish language as long as its not mandatory in secondary school, and this is the 1st time I have ventured into Primary territory re this subject (my kids start next year), and now that I know the atmosphere, I won't be back in a hurry . . .

Stripey Cat

LordSutch wrote: »

I am anti compulsory Irish in schools

Yay!

ShamoBuc

LordSutch wrote: »

Dear Lord, what is it with you guys! (post 40)

I certainly won't be coming back to this forum again in a hurry.

PS I have a long track record of defending the Irish language as long as its not mandatory in secondary school, and this is the 1st time I have ventured into Primary territory re this subject (my kids start next year), and now that I know the atmosphere, I won't be back in a hurry . . .

Eh, you asked a question, several people gave you the correct answer.

Others left comments you didn't like/appreciate..... that probably happens in other threads aswell - no big deal surely.

You won't be back? Slán;)

Stripey Cat

the poppy which I wear on poppy day (guilty as charged). This thread is about my kids (starting school next year)

Mod note:Original question answered, am locking the thread.Byhookorbycrook