Good to see Irish Rail has embraced (not) the Leap card

coylemj

Looked at the IR website just now, there is a prominent box showing a hand holding an IR SMartcard with a banner 'Smartcard, Register, Top up or buy a smartcard'.

If you click the link on Smartcard there is a full explanation of their own card but not a sausage anywhere on their home page about the Leap Card.

As I understand it, the IR Smartcard can only be used within the 'short hop' zone so there is no possible journey where you can use the IR Smartcard but not the Leap card. Clearly IR have their heads in the sand and are trying to pretend the Leap card doesn't exist.

Surely after blowing €55 million, some minister should be knocking heads together?

foggy_lad

coylemj wrote: »

Looked at the IR website just now, there is a prominent box showing a hand holding an IR SMartcard with a banner 'Smartcard, Register, Top up or buy a smartcard'.

If you click the link on Smartcard there is a full explanation of their own card but not a sausage anywhere on their home page about the Leap Card.

As I understand it, the IR Smartcard can only be used within the 'short hop' zone so there is no possible journey where you can use the IR Smartcard but not the Leap card. Clearly IR have their heads in the sand and are trying to pretend the Leap card doesn't exist.

Surely after blowing €55 million, some minister should be knocking heads together?

They are not alone! Dublin Bus insist on you going into their HQ on o'connell street for a refund no matter what the amount, even though they must also pay for your journey there and back with a couple of travel90 tickets!

I had thought that IE were phasing out their own smart card and issuing people with leap cards instead but this looks unlikely if they are still selling it on the front page of their website?

sitstill

Speaking of IR and Leap, does anyone know when we will be able to top-up our Leap cards on the IR ticket machines??!

goingnowhere

Irish Rails smart card is considerably better than Leap in many ways until Leap catches up the Irish Rail smart card will remain

Irish Rail is doing auto renewal of monthly tickets on smart card which is miles ahead of leaps current abilities

sitstill

coylemj wrote: »

Looked at the IR website just now, there is a prominent box showing a hand holding an IR SMartcard with a banner 'Smartcard, Register, Top up or buy a smartcard'.

When you click on the link to buy a smartcard, it refers you to the Leap website.

markpb

goingnowhere wrote: »

Irish Rails smart card is considerably better than Leap in many ways until Leap catches up the Irish Rail smart card will remain

Good to see they wasted lots of money on a card which had a very short lifespan.

AngryLips

goingnowhere wrote: »

Irish Rails smart card is considerably better than Leap in many ways until Leap catches up the Irish Rail smart card will remain

Irish Rail is doing auto renewal of monthly tickets on smart card which is miles ahead of leaps current abilities

But Leap card is considerably better in the sense that you can use it on Luas and Dublin Bus also.

Victor

sitstill wrote: »

Speaking of IR and Leap, does anyone know when we will be able to top-up our Leap cards on the IR ticket machines??!

The current expectation is June 2012.

sitstill

Victor wrote: »

The current expectation is June 2012.

Why does it keep getting pushed back, I thought it was originally going to be Feb?

foggy_lad

sitstill wrote: »

Why does it keep getting pushed back, I thought it was originally going to be Feb?

The Irish Rail machines and software are not compatible with the leap software?

number10a

Not wanting to throw this entirely off topic, but does anyone know when the Leap cards are going to start working outside of Dublin, specifically Cork. The buses here have the tapping points just inside the door already. Ireland is such a small country that we really should just have one transport payment system for the whole place anyway.

Carawaystick

Obviously it is completely impossible for Irish rail to get leap terminals installed in their ticketing offices, it's much handier to direct people out to the rain and top up at the tram station in Connolly....

The nta are like poor high jumpers, setting the bar low and still knocking it down.

Dravokivich

goingnowhere wrote: »

Irish Rails smart card is considerably better than Leap in many ways until Leap catches up the Irish Rail smart card will remain

Irish Rail is doing auto renewal of monthly tickets on smart card which is miles ahead of leaps current abilities

It's not a matter of catching up, its phasing in in stages. Once full functionality is across to the Leap Card the Irish Rail Card is going to be taken out. Same with Luas.

number10a wrote: »

Not wanting to throw this entirely off topic, but does anyone know when the Leap cards are going to start working outside of Dublin, specifically Cork. The buses here have the tapping points just inside the door already. Ireland is such a small country that we really should just have one transport payment system for the whole place anyway.

Matthews did a pilot as far as I recall, but that was generally for commutter towns around Dublin heading into Dublin.

dowlingm

Carawaystick wrote: »

The nta are like poor high jumpers, setting the bar low and still knocking it down.

To be fair, the NTA's consultants told them the event was limbo dancing. Still crap at it though

ppthree

Just seen a Leap card sticker on a ticket machine in Connolly.

Victor

ppthree wrote: »

Just seen a Leap card sticker on a ticket machine in Connolly.

Some functionality is currently being rolled out, but will taken a while for it to reach all stations.

deRanged

Victor wrote: »

Some functionality is currently being rolled out, but will taken a while for it to reach all stations.

would that be all stations in Ireland, do you know?

it'd be handy if the leap card worked on the commuter lines in Cork. My IR smartcard works just fine (in the sense that it gets me to and from Midleton but there's nowhere in the county to read it) but the leap card would be a handy way to buy tickets for additional passengers, or the Cobh line.

foggy_lad

deRanged wrote: »

would that be all stations in Ireland, do you know?

it'd be handy if the leap card worked on the commuter lines in Cork. My IR smartcard works just fine (in the sense that it gets me to and from Midleton but there's nowhere in the county to read it) but the leap card would be a handy way to buy tickets for additional passengers, or the Cobh line.

Considering not all stations have a ticket office or even a ticket machine it will not be rolled out to all stations, more likely to cover the main stations(Connolly,Heuston, Pearse, Kent) first and then spread to smaller stations in Limerick Galway and Dundalk

robd

ppthree wrote: »

Just seen a Leap card sticker on a ticket machine in Connolly.

Was rolled out to Connolly and Grand Canal Dock last week, based on railusers.ie post. Appears to be soft rollout as nothing is being said about it by RPA.

Is continuing rollout to all ticket (Dart at least) machines. Requires hardware change of reader in each machine so will take weeks to complete. No fixed schedule given.

Has anyone tested it yet?

Dravokivich

deRanged wrote: »

would that be all stations in Ireland, do you know?

it'd be handy if the leap card worked on the commuter lines in Cork. My IR smartcard works just fine (in the sense that it gets me to and from Midleton but there's nowhere in the county to read it) but the leap card would be a handy way to buy tickets for additional passengers, or the Cobh line.

Just to keep yourself aware, currently only Dublin Bus allows the purchasing for additional passegners with Leap Card as they are able to produce receipts for each passenger at the drivers machine.

Irish Rail is touch on/off within Dublin so couldn't really facilitate multiple tickets.

Wouldn't mind know how they'd implement it, if it's going to be expanded outside of Dublin with Irish Rail.

robd

Dravokivich wrote: »

Wouldn't mind know how they'd implement it, if it's going to be expanded outside of Dublin with Irish Rail.

I guess if they really wanted to they could just treat it like a wallet and allow purchase of point to point ticket at the ticket machine.

Personally I think the whole allowing additional passengers is a not that useful a feature. Plus it might unintentionally discourage passengers from obtaining their own leap card. Auto topup is the major missing feature which I believe is now in early testing.

coylemj

Could we temporarily dump jargon like 'functionality' and 'roll out' and could someone tell us the name of any railway station(s) where you can now top up a Leap Card with cash and/or credit card using an Irish Rail ticket machine.

AngryLips

robd wrote: »

Personally I think the whole allowing additional passengers is a not that useful a feature. Plus it might unintentionally discourage passengers from obtaining their own leap card. Auto topup is the major missing feature which I believe is now in early testing.

It might work as a disincentive or it might work as a useful way to convert cash-paying passengers. Either way, I wouldn't call it useless.

Speaking for myself only there has been plenty of times when I've jumped on the bus with a mate instead of some other means of getting around because I happen to have my leap card on me even though my companion doesn't have any spare change for the bus fare. To be honest, I think the advantages it offers when you're traveling with out-of-towners far outweigh whatever disincentive there might be.

markpb

robd wrote: »

Personally I think the whole allowing additional passengers is a not that useful a feature. Plus it might unintentionally discourage passengers from obtaining their own leap card. Auto topup is the major missing feature which I believe is now in early testing.

I think it's a great feature after being initially dubious. I use it all the time when friends and family come to Dublin for a day or two. They'd never buy their own Leap card for such a short period of time but being able to hop on the bus without having cash is very handy.

I think auto-topup will be the killer feature. DB stand to benefit the most from Leap but because of the lack of top-up collection, I think it's limited the appeal so far. Auto-topup should close that gap and make it a lot more attractive.

robd

AngryLips wrote: »

Either way, I wouldn't call it useless.

I never said it was useless. I just don't think it's that useful in the scheme of things. Big difference between useless and not very useful. In the scheme of things being that, auto-topop from the start, would have been a much better feature to put the effort into.

robd

markpb wrote: »

I think it's a great feature after being initially dubious. I use it all the time when friends and family come to Dublin for a day or two. They'd never buy their own Leap card for such a short period of time but being able to hop on the bus without having cash is very handy.

I think auto-topup will be the killer feature. DB stand to benefit the most from Leap but because of the lack of top-up collection, I think it's limited the appeal so far. Auto-topup should close that gap and make it a lot more attractive.

I too have used the feature and was getting lots of use followed by infrequent use (as I changed office locations) out of leap card. Was great till I ran out of credit and haven't been near a Luas ticket machine to top it up, which I'd have to remember to do next time I'm in city centre. Can't do it at local rail station. Have found it hard to track down an advertised Payzone shop that actually does really do leap card topups.

Although there are situations where this companion fare is useful, the main job of the Leap Card should be driving efficiencies, reducing interaction with ticketing staff and reducing dwell times of buses. Fails miserably at that as a feature, particularly for the poor soles in the queue behind you.

robd

coylemj wrote: »

Could we temporarily dump jargon like 'functionality' and 'roll out' and could someone tell us the name of any railway station(s) where you can now top up a Leap Card with cash and/or credit card using an Irish Rail ticket machine.

To date:

Docklands
Connolly Station

AlekSmart

markpb wrote: »

I think it's a great feature after being initially dubious. I use it all the time when friends and family come to Dublin for a day or two. They'd never buy their own Leap card for such a short period of time but being able to hop on the bus without having cash is very handy.

I think auto-topup will be the killer feature. DB stand to benefit the most from Leap but because of the lack of top-up collection, I think it's limited the appeal so far. Auto-topup should close that gap and make it a lot more attractive.

Perhaps...however as far as I am aware,even when ATU is enabled the Leapcard will still have to be updated at the current hardwired locations,as the on-bus hardware will still NOT be capable of topping up ....:(

goingnowhere

Auto top up does work on the bus.....

AlekSmart

goingnowhere wrote: »

Auto top up does work on the bus.....

I stand corrected ...or at least I will when my machine delivers it to my customer...:D

goingnowhere

Driver and customer will not notice if the system decides to trigger an auto top up event.

The fact the auto top up happens is recorded on the TGX150 and is uploaded with the normal leap usage data from the bus each evening and the LEAP back office deals with the direct debit request.

AlekSmart

goingnowhere wrote: »

Driver and customer will not notice if the system decides to trigger an auto top up event.

The fact the auto top up happens is recorded on the TGX150 and is uploaded with the normal leap usage data from the bus each evening and the LEAP back office deals with the direct debit request.

Excellent News

Is there any particular reason for keeping this significant positive development quiet.?

Dravokivich

goingnowhere wrote: »

Auto top up does work on the bus.....

The card still needs to touch at Luas, Irish Rail and Payzone to be configured for it.

goingnowhere wrote: »

Driver and customer will not notice if the system decides to trigger an auto top up event.

The fact the auto top up happens is recorded on the TGX150 and is uploaded with the normal leap usage data from the bus each evening and the LEAP back office deals with the direct debit request.

Surely there'll be a threshold that once it goes under, the auto topup is triggered, so a user should know when to expect it. Then at the end of the transaction you'll see the balance of the card updated.

goingnowhere

Dravokivich wrote: »

The card still needs to touch at Luas, Irish Rail and Payzone to be configured for it.

Or if you order a leap card with auto top up pre enabled

Dravokivich wrote: »

Surely there'll be a threshold that once it goes under, the auto topup is triggered, so a user should know when to expect it. Then at the end of the transaction you'll see the balance of the card updated.

There is no tone or other obvious indicator to the customer that the top up has taken place, it just happens

Dravokivich

goingnowhere wrote: »

Or if you order a leap card with auto top up pre enabled

Hmm, dunno, have they released anything saying that?

goingnowhere wrote: »

There is no tone or other obvious indicator to the customer that the top up has taken place, it just happens

But it happens when your balance goes under a certain threshold, keep an eye on your balance and you'll know when to expect it. Watch what the screen displays as your balance after and you should see it's applied.

robd

AlekSmart wrote: »

Excellent News

Is there any particular reason for keeping this significant positive development quiet.?

It's not rolled out yet. Only in friendly user trials.

AlekSmart

Dravokivich wrote: »

The card still needs to touch at Luas, Irish Rail and Payzone to be configured for it.

Surely there'll be a threshold that once it goes under, the auto topup is triggered, so a user should know when to expect it. Then at the end of the transaction you'll see the balance of the card updated.

This very element,in the current economic climate could be somewhat off-putting to many potential users...

https://www.leapcard.ie/PageSetting/ContentViewer.aspx?Val=CG%2fCj953WkPB%2b7fwjkLFshsyP7wecX6fiV0VBn3Q632F20yhboVXGTVmv%2b2bImvcFvyDWv8wk%2bd4E5kAGPCvjpJvBUgOhvVEg%2fB6ZgVyLiI6nLqx13jMpsQIKgDUASmGM793kdSI9FJOtf2oYKBBrP3uRbgVAG0ZGo31awr2Vmg%3d

3.4 Auto Top-Up - Coming Soon

(a) The terms and conditions in this section 3.4 shall be binding on any Leap Card customer who avails of the Auto Top-Up facility (when introduced).

(b) Registered and Personalised Leap Card customers can apply for the Auto Top-Up facility by completing the online application form available at www.leapcard.ie. As part of the application process the Leap Card customer must nominate an account with an accepted payment source (as per sub-section (h) below) from which Auto Top-Ups can be debited (the “Account”).

(c) The Leap Card customer is responsible for ensuring that the Account information is accurate and up to date and that his/her Account is at all times valid and contains sufficient funds or credit in order to meet deductions by the Authority in accordance with these Terms and Conditions. Leap Card customers can update their Account information Online. Leap Card customers shall inform Leap Card Customer Care immediately of any closure or termination of the Account.

(d) The Authority will set a minimum Travel Credit balance (the “threshold”) from time to time. With Auto Top-Up, when a Leap Card customer’s Travel Credit balance falls below the threshold, the Leap Card will be automatically reloaded with Leap Card customer’s pre-selected reload value (the “reload value”), and simultaneously an instruction will automatically be sent to debit the reload value from the Account. The initial threshold is set at €15.00.

(e) During the application for Auto Top-Up, Leap Card customers may designate a reload value (e.g. €20.00, €30.00, €40.00 or €50.00). The Leap Card customer may not change the reload value once Auto Top-Up has been enabled.

(f) Notwithstanding anything to the contrary herein contained, the Leap Card customer agrees that a minimum period of 7 days must elapse between each Auto Top-Up. The Authority shall not be obliged to top-up an Auto Top-Up enabled Leap Card until after the Leap Card customer’s Account has been successfully debited for any previous Auto Top-Ups.

(g) The Leap Card customer’s online account will display details of the Auto Top-Up amounts that the Leap Card customer has chosen.

(h) Auto Top-Up may only be paid for via direct debit payments using the Leap Card customer’s designated current account; Credit card payments will not be accepted as a payment method for Auto Top-Up.

(i) Leap Card customers may cancel their Auto Top-Up facility Online at any time. The cancellation request only becomes effective when configured on to the Leap Card. Until the Leap Card is configured, the Auto Top-Up remains in place and the Authority will not be liable for any Auto Top-Up prior to configuration. The Leap Card customer will nominate online where the Leap Card will be taken for configuration. Note that currently Leap Card customers are not able to nominate the Validators on Dublin Bus or Bus Éireann for configuration. The Authority will endeavour to ensure that the cancellation request will be available for configuration on to the Leap Card as soon as possible; however, it cannot guarantee that the request will be available sooner than 48 hours after cancellation.

(j) If an Auto Top-Up instruction for a Leap Card is rejected by a Leap Card customer’s financial institution, the Authority reserves the right to do any or all of the following:

i. Recover from the Leap Card customer the amount of any rejected transaction plus all costs incurred (including legal costs on a full indemnity basis) by the Authority for the recovery of any such amounts.

ii. Withdraw the Auto Top-Up facility from the Leap Card customer.

iii. Suspend the use of the Leap Card for such period as may be determined by the Authority.

iv. Cancel the Leap Card.

v. Disqualify the Leap Card customer from applying for any new Auto Top-Up facility for such length of time as may be determined to be appropriate by the Authority.

vi. Deduct or set-off any monies owing to the Authority from the remaining value and any Deposit in respect of the Leap Card.

(k) The Authority reserves the right to withdraw the Auto Top-Up facility for all Leap Card customers at its discretion or modify either the reload value or the threshold value.

I believe the €15 trigger-point is too high and I also have reservations on the amount of minimum top-up,which appears to be €20.

Given the erratic nature of the current on-line Top-Up service and (36 Hours for my last one) I am now confident that this explains the notion of,yet another,"Soft-Launch"....:)

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

This very element,in the current economic climate could be somewhat off-putting to many potential users...

https://www.leapcard.ie/PageSetting/ContentViewer.aspx?Val=CG%2fCj953WkPB%2b7fwjkLFshsyP7wecX6fiV0VBn3Q632F20yhboVXGTVmv%2b2bImvcFvyDWv8wk%2bd4E5kAGPCvjpJvBUgOhvVEg%2fB6ZgVyLiI6nLqx13jMpsQIKgDUASmGM793kdSI9FJOtf2oYKBBrP3uRbgVAG0ZGo31awr2Vmg%3d



I believe the €15 trigger-point is too high and I also have reservations on the amount of minimum top-up,which appears to be €20.

Given the erratic nature of the current on-line Top-Up service and (36 Hours for my last one) I am now confident that this explains the notion of,yet another,"Soft-Launch"....:)

Remember also that you will only be allowed one auto top-up a week so choose your top-up amount carefully when the feature eventually becomes available.

bk

foggy_lad wrote: »

Remember also that you will only be allowed one auto top-up a week so choose your top-up amount carefully when the feature eventually becomes available.

Wow the combination of not being able to change the top-up amount and only one top up a week, make this another big mistake :mad:

carlmango11

foggy_lad wrote: »

Remember also that you will only be allowed one auto top-up a week so choose your top-up amount carefully when the feature eventually becomes available.

What's the logic behind this decision?

robd

carlmango11 wrote: »

What's the logic behind this decision?

Standard anti fraud measure. The topup is offline. i.e. The card gets the credit added to it at validator/gate, then at the end of the day all the topups are pushed to central server, then Credit Card Payments and Direct Debits requests are processed.

The threshold amount and only per week measure do see a little too stringent. Perhaps, they will reduce over time. Perhaps the €15 was picked cause it's near to twice the maximum fare that a leap card can do?

Would have thought the auto topup amount is stored in the card so you should be able to change it at a Ticketing machine in the future. Again someone with more specific knowledge of the cards might no more.

Victor

deRanged wrote: »

would that be all stations in Ireland, do you know?

No, it would be stations in the Dublin area that are already Leap-enabled. Strictly speaking, Leap is a Dublin Transport Authority product.

bk

Victor wrote: »

No, it would be stations in the Dublin area that are already Leap-enabled. Strictly speaking, Leap is a Dublin Transport Authority product.

Which is a bit short sighted. A country our size, it really should be a national project. Just like the new Journey Planner and RTPI projects.

No reasons why Leap couldn't be used on Cork city bus services, Irish Rail Cork Commuter services, etc.

Victor

carlmango11 wrote: »

What's the logic behind this decision?

It also stops a lot of confusion from over-lapping transactions.

LXFlyer

bk wrote: »

Which is a bit short sighted. A country our size, it really should be a national project. Just like the new Journey Planner and RTPI projects.

No reasons why Leap couldn't be used on Cork city bus services, Irish Rail Cork Commuter services, etc.

I would agree - but at a later stage. Get the Greater Dublin rollout complete and fully functioning before biting off more than one can chew.

I'd far prefer they took their time and get the thing right before going on huge expansions.

AlekSmart

lxflyer wrote: »

I would agree - but at a later stage. Get the Greater Dublin rollout complete and fully functioning before biting off more than one can chew.

I'd far prefer they took their time and get the thing right before going on huge expansions.

Lxflyer,I cannot see you having ANY problems of that nature with Leapcard...when God made time in Leapcardland,he made PLENTY of it !!!:rolleyes:

curryman

Ticket Machines in Heuston Station started getting upgraded this evening with leap stickers also being put on them.

carlmango11

Not sure if this is old news but Leap is working with machines in Pearse.

One thing I noticed though. When I put my card into the pocket the screen said "Status: Tagged On". If by that they meant I had touched onto a Luas or Dart then it's wrong. I had taken the bus earlier that's it. Anything else it could mean?

Wouldn't be Irish Rail if it worked fine. ...impending rant must control myself.

foggy_lad

carlmango11 wrote: »

Not sure if this is old news but Leap is working with machines in Pearse.

One thing I noticed though. When I put my card into the pocket the screen said "Status: Tagged On". If by that they meant I had touched onto a Luas or Dart then it's wrong. I had taken the bus earlier that's it. Anything else it could mean?

Wouldn't be Irish Rail if it worked fine. ...impending rant must control myself.

You should check and see were you charged for a journey at the time it said you were tagged on.

goingnowhere

If the last journey was Dublin Bus it will show tagged on or tagged off, based on the time elapsed

On Luas machines you will see 'time exceeded' for the same situation

carlmango11

goingnowhere wrote: »

If the last journey was Dublin Bus it will show tagged on or tagged off, based on the time elapsed

On Luas machines you will see 'time exceeded' for the same situation

I had used the bus ~8 hours beforehand though? Actually I'm pretty sure I didn't even use my Leap card on it now that I think about it!

Also I checked the website: I wasn't charged for any journies so that's not it..