Sexy baby - the documentary

Kimia

Have any of you heard of this? It was at the Tribeca Film Festival and apparently was award winning. It's about sexiness and what it means nowadays to different women with the likes of porn being available to everyone online, facebook having raunchy photos up etc.

It was hard enough to be a teenage girl back 15 years ago, I cannot even imagine how it must be now. Facebook must be a curse for so many. I remember seeing another documentary about how these teenage girls were rating boobs on how attractive they are and they were basing their entire opinions on what was in porn movies. :eek:

Here's the trailer: Some bits may not be safe for work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeD_RztXeko

Millicent

Looks interesting, if depressing.

I genuinely feel sorry for young girls these days. This may make me sound old and fuddy duddy (I'm 28) but I think things are going backwards, not forwards, in certain women's rights and marketing. Never before have kids had access to the sexual imagery available today while they don't have the tools to deal with it yet. Things have become hyper-sexualised, especially on the internet and in music videos. When I think of the sort of female role models my niece will grow up with, I worry.

daenerysstormborn3

Let me start by saying, I'm only 24, like Millicent, I don't want to come across as someone old before their time but oh god that is just so depressing.

I can really identify with the clip of the girl posing "saucily" and then crying at her mum saying she doesn't trust her and told her not to take "slutty pictures" as I have seen this in the relationship between a friend of mine and her daughter. Her daughter constantly posts really suggestive photos and status updates on facebook (to the point where I have deleted her because I just didn't like looking at the stuff she was putting up there) and gets upset when her parents try to rein her in. She says they don't trust her and she hates them because they won't let her go to discos in crop tops and skirts stuck up her arse.

Every single music video nowadays has girls in their knickers, if you're lucky.

I remember when Britney Spears' first video came out and she had the little yellow crop top thing on and the jogging pants and my mum saying that she was dressed like a tart, nowadays they just dance around in their knickers and fishnet tights.

I don't understand what the likes of Lady Gaga, Beyonce, Rihanna etc. think they're achieving dancing around in their pants. Why do they think their talents are not enough? Why do they think they have to take all their clothes off? And these are grown women, Beyonce is 30, Lady Gaga is 26 - these are adults that can't say they don't know where boundaries lie.

hdowney

Agreed. We all wanted to be more grown up when we were younger, but for us (only 26!) that meant robbing a bit of mums lippy and tottering around in here heels!! These days there are what can only be described as 'slutty' clothes, marketed specifically for children. I remember reading recently that the British government was trying to crack down on this, and reading in the piece about push up bra tops being aimed at 3 and 4 year olds!!! WTF like. Seriously what is the world coming too when they actively choose to make children into sex objects. You can't go anywhere without hearing of child abductions and child molestation these days and yet companies are getting away with these kind of marketing stunts, and parents are letting them which is even worse.

Kimia

What scares me most of all is the way young women think that their sole purpose is to be the sexiest so that they can get the guy. What kind of message is that sending out to a) the girls, and b) the guys! Young women are objectifying themselves these days and young men are as a result seeing them as fair game. It's terrifying.

I remember how bad it was when I was young. We wore short skirts and knee high boots with skimpy little tops (cringe) and LOVED getting the boys attention but had no real idea of what the consequences are. I didn't have a clue about sex until I was definitely 15/16 whereas these days it's 11 and 12 year olds doing stuff we did.

One of the consequences of this is that young women will start measuring their self-worth with how sexy she is, or how many men like her, or how many men she scores. We see it all the time in personal issues, where these young women will get with as many guys as she can so that she feels attractive and sexy, but somehow still end up feeling hollow and used.

I went through a similar period when I was younger where I constantly wanted approval and validation from men. It was so unhealthy. I never felt validated in the end - I always just felt like I had let myself down somehow. I just had no idea that there was any other way of being. It took a long time and some bad experiences for me to grow up.

Catari Jaguar

I think the medium has changed but the basic developmental instinct is still there. Teenage girls from the dawn of time and for generations to come will worry about their looks, try to attract boys through flirting and dressing provocatively, try sexual things they are uncomfortable with due to peer pressure or feeling left out, be curious and confused about their bodies etc.

Just now it's in a digital and much more accessible way. Yes it's harmful in that it's so public, and can't really get much worse, but things generally do come full circle so in another 10 years it might be totally diffferent...

Sappa

I don`t know,I think teenagers nowadays are more screwed up than ever because of technology and trends like twitter/facebook putting pressure.
I had the misfortune of spending last night with a group of early 20 year olds,now I am only 31 but these were living on a different planet to me.
I could not relate to them at all and when myself and my friends were that age,sure we were wild but we were not nearly half as neurotic or vain.
Never again,I actually dread having children,that they would turn out o be a spoilt brat at 15 and tell me to feck off after years of sacrificing for them.
I think your either cut out to have them or not really.

jaffacakesyum

Sappa wrote: »

I don`t know,I think teenagers nowadays are more screwed up than ever because of technology and trends like twitter/facebook putting pressure.
I had the misfortune of spending last night with a group of early 20 year olds,now I am only 31 but these were living on a different planet to me.
I could not relate to them at all and when myself and my friends were that age,sure we were wild but we were not nearly half as neurotic or vain.
Never again,I actually dread having children,that they would turn out o be a spoilt brat at 15 and tell me to feck off after years of sacrificing for them.
I think your either cut out to have them or not really.

I worry about this in the sense of having children as well. I would want my kids to be kids for as long as possible. Not in the send that I want them to be babies for the rest of their life and count on their mammy. But no 12 year old girl should be caked in make up and worrying about the latest fashion trends, and dressing provocatively, posing on facebook etc. trying to attract boys. Unfortunately, that's just the way things are these days

I'm only 20 too by the way but mature for my age and friends my age certainly wouldn't be vain or neurotic (in general). And at 20 I believe you are well into adulthood and should be allowed dress as you like. It's more the 10/11 year olds up until they're 17/18 that worry me.

As a parent what can you do? You don't want to make your child's life a misery and risk being bullied, as you don't let them in on the latest fashion trends, or don't get them an iPhone for Christmas. Yet I want my kids to be kids, enjoy life, be active, be polite, grounded and not spoilt.

Morag

But no 12 year old girl should be caked in make up and worrying about the latest fashion trends, and dressing provocatively, posing on facebook etc. trying to attract boys. Unfortunately, that's just the way things are these days

That is the way things are for some kids, not all.
Yes it is not easy to go against trend and to try and teach your kids not to be sheep and to respect themselves and to have good boundaries but it can be done and the children benefit from it.

saa

I'm in my 20s now but when I was 14-16 I was allowed to use the internet however I liked, I spent lost nights talking to people I knew on msn instead of meeting up with them, putting up photos of myself that werent bad its just not a good idea to try and put up a vision of your identity online as there is always a footprint of it somewhere, there is a myspace account I cannot get into and if they changed the privacy tomorrow all those photos would be available, I hate the idea that I'm giving out my business card and the tool that people are using to check me out could contain some of that crap.

I looked like a normal teenager, didn't go for that sexually suggestive thing but I did end up meeting up with this guy I didn't know when I was 16 that could of went so badly. I didn't have sex with him or even plan on doing that how naive I wonder what he was thinking.

When I have my children I'm going to look out for them and use a wonderful little word called no. No one ever said no to me or was even looking out for me, I ate what I wanted going through periods of eating nothing then eating too much, I did what I wanted on the internet putting myself in danger and looked up some warped stuff that did more damage than all the freedom to go where I wanted when I wanted irl.

lazygal

I feel so bad for today's teenagers, male and female. I'm 30 but still remember my school days. I wasn't a particularly happy, popular or outgoing teenager so the social pressures of today in terms of Facebook, going out and being part of a group would be a total nightmare for me. Most of my cousins are aged 12-21 and their use of FB terrifies me sometimes. Every single thing goes up on it, from horrible comments about their 'friends' to drunken pictures of nights out. It seems the total norm to them to share every single detail of their lives, from the minor to the major. I actually have given my aunts and uncles a discreet heads up about what their kids are posting because some of it was just so inappropriate for their age.

I don't care if I sound uncool or a prude, I just don't see how parents can be so clueless as to what their kids are up to when its all put up on public profiles on FB. I'm not the most tech savvy in the world but I never post pictures of me on FB and my friends know this, so respect my wishes not to put up pictures of me on their pages. I have a perhaps naive hope that by the time my children are teenagers the internet will have 'settled down' a bit. I also know its easy to say this now but I also want them to be children for as long as possible. I don't want my 12 year old crying because some boy in her class called her a slut and I don't want to come across my 15 year old getting a BJ at a disco. My parents kept a tight leash on us, in fact I knew to not even bother asking to go to the local disco because it was a firm no, you're too young. In hindsight, they took the best possible approach.

That said, most people do grow up without any major scars and come through teenagedom mainly unscathed. It just makes me sick that the pornographication of our culture has filtered down to teenage girls thinking pubic hair needs to be waxed off and anal sex is a normal part of any person's sexual repertoire. I know there's a huge industry to battle against but does anyone else feel sick and tired of how porn has become normalised in everyday culture and that they've well and truly had enough of it?

daenerysstormborn3

I was told "no" a lot when i lived at home. I certainly wasn't into all the "cool" things, like the latest fashion/make up/music, i did my own thing. I was friends with everybody in school though, from the sports fanatics to the nerds. I don't know if school is still like that though, where you can be an outsider as regards all the latest "cool" stuff but not have to worry about being alienated for it.

Lia_lia

Meh. It's just the way thing are developing. It's scary, but it is what it is.

Twenty years ago raunchy photos in magazines may have received the same shock. It's nothing new.

Maybe I'm just like this because I've grown up in the "digital age".

Never went for the whole "sexy" thing either. Don't think the media or whatever ever affected me like that.

I don't know, nothing to add to this really. And I think porn is hilarious most of the time.

Morag

How ignorant and unaware parent can be is frankly scarey.
I see it with parents of kids in primary and secondary.

LadyMayBelle

Thanks for this link. I Spent the past few days trying to get my head round teens... I work in a secondary school and counsel the kids there... I knew stuff was bad (12 year olds sexting, getting caught out out by patents etc) but after a few sessions during the week, I felt so drained and clueless. I've kids aged 13 and 14 who give blow jobs regularly, usually in the company of their friend so 'nothing more happens'. Hand jobs, blow jobs and full sex at 14.. Is now becoming 'normal', and it's honestly heartbreaking. The school teaches sex ed in a way that tells them about the anatomy of the process, but as they tell me : they know that stuff well, it's the emotional side they'd like to know about. It's all well and good encouraging girls to respect themselves and build their self esteem, because I think it has now how beyond that, into a scary space where it's normal.

Sorry for rant, it really got me thinking!

lace

It is so scary.

I'm in my early 20's and there was much talk of blowjobs etc when I was in primary school (5th and 6th class) but none of it was ever serious. The biggest concern most kids had was getting their first kiss or girlfriend/boyfriend. When I got to secondary school, there was more sexual joking etc but the majority of girls didn't act on anything till much later.

I remember Bebo becoming popular when I was in 2nd or 3rd year and suddenly everything was about how many "friends" you had and how many "luvs" you got. There were girls who went out of their way to be "sexxi" and put up pictures of themselves in their underwear but nobody ever seemed to consider the fact that this is illegal. Some of our teachers admitted to seeing pictures of students out drinking, smoking, in skimpy clothes etc. on Bebo and tried to warn girls against it but it never made any difference.

I know people say pop culture has become more raunchy in recent years but I remember Christina Aguilera writhing around in chaps and Destiny's Child in animal skin bikinis in the sand. I accidentally saw the video for Smack My B*tch Up when it first came out. I remember learning the dance to The Bad Touch.

I think the problem is that it's becoming increasingly easy for children to act like adults. More and more products are being made for children of young ages. This one is the worst case I've heard of but any day I go into Penneys I'm disgusted at how many miniature versions of adult clothing are on sale - bikinis for 2-year-olds are just wrong!

Da Shins Kelly

It's pretty scary. There's so much pressure on young people, particularly girls, nowadays. They're given completely impossible and unrealistic standards to live up to. It's not fair. This form of 'sexy' - the provocative pictures on social networking sites, raunchy music videos, the porn star look - is so unhealthy. First of all, if it's about attracting men, I don't know any man who thinks that whoring it up is sexy. Secondly, there is more than one way to be sexy. Thirdly, it's less about modern sexuality than it is about objectifying women. It's the beauty myth.

I'm not that old, but when I think back to when I was younger and everyone was scandalized by Britney Spears dressing a little provocatively in a school uniform, and compare that to today when Rihanna is practically simulating sex in her music videos, it seems like a big leap. Like someone was saying before, a lot of female role models just can't be taken seriously. Beyonce is a talented woman, but she claims to be this strong, powerful woman and an example to all women, while at the same time dancing around onstage with barely anything on her. The same goes for Lady Gaga and Rihanna, and others. The fact that these women feel the need to augment their talent by sexing it up is proof that we're going backwards instead of forwards. It's become the norm for female popstars to be over-sexualised - that's how they get themselves out there and get people talking about them and their music. It sends out a terrible message - this is how you get people to like you, this is the only type of sexy. They dress it up by saying that this is sexual liberation and that women are more empowered than ever before. There is absolutely nothing empowering about Rihanna. When I see her I just see a woman who has to be hyper-sexual in order to maintain her status, otherwise she'll be forgotten about. If anything, that's anti-empowerment. It's objectification. It's pretty soul-crushing, especially when you think that a male popstar would never have to do it.

On the subject of girls trying to appear more sexy to appeal to men, to be honest, I think a lot of it is to do with trying to out-do each other. They're trying to impress each other and appear to be more sexy/pretty/attractive than others. Women are competitive. I even see it among my own friends. It's as much to do with attracting male attention as it has to do with bettering each other.

psicic

As a 31 year old guy, I had a pretty long post written that ended up coming off as completely misogynistic, so I just wanted to say two things:

One: I honestly pity young girls growing up today, exactly because the sex-culture that's now mainstream is like the late night dream of some hormone-ridden teenage-boy. Getting 'safe' validation by posting inappropriate pictures on social networking sites to hundreds of strangers is a symptom of this, I suspect.

Two: A lot of modern exploitation is dressed up in the garb of liberation and self-empowerment. I personally want to be outraged - but I think I'm too old-fashioned to draw the line and decry parents for not knowing where to draw the line themselves. To be 100% honest, I sometimes wish there was some guidebook letting me know if the latest pop-sensation 'grinding her gear' while singing very suggestive lyrics in front of legions of screaming tweens is empowering or sexist. I always think the latter, but am reliably informed it's the former.

Giselle

psicic wrote: »

I sometimes wish there was some guidebook letting me know if the latest pop-sensation 'grinding her gear' while singing very suggestive lyrics in front of legions of screaming tweens is empowering or sexist. I always think the latter, but am reliably informed it's the former.

It IS the latter. One of the great cons of the last decade or so is convincing girls that being 'sexy' (ie, dressing completely age inapropriately and suggestively) is empowering. Its not, it just makes young girls complicit in their own exploitation by the fashion and entertainment industry. Popular culture commodifys womens bodies and sells the concept to girls as liberation. I once saw an article in a magazine advising teens on how to get in touch with their 'inner minx'.

Another con is that allowing your sexuality free reign is empowering. Well, lots of girls, when they're very young, just wind up feeling like prudes if they don't keep up. Being liberated and exercising no discernment are difficult lines to negotiate if you're very young, suggestible to peer pressure, want to be liked and validated.

God, I sound so old fashioned, but I don't care. I'm 26 and when I see some really young teens and how drunk they are, and how sluttily dressed, I close my eyes and send a silent wish out to the universe that I never have a daughter. Its just too damn hard for girls to just BE.

For every confident overmade-up and underdressed teenager, is at least one other insecure and vulnerable young person who's swimming in shark infested waters and thinks its a swimming pool.

Lia_lia

I don't know. I'm 23 and when I was a young teenager girls were dressing up like sluts and giving blowjobs all over the place too. It's not completely new. I never did any of that because I chose not to. Couldn't give a shite about looking "sexy". If anything I've always covered up to try and not look anyway sexy. Don't like attention from men. Girls can choose not to follow others who dress/act like this too, it's up to them.

LadyMayBelle

Lia_lia wrote: »

I don't know. I'm 23 and when I was a young teenager girls were dressing up like sluts and giving blowjobs all over the place too. It's not completely new. I never did any of that because I chose not to. Couldn't give a shite about looking "sexy". If anything I've always covered up to try and not look anyway sexy. Don't like attention from men. Girls can choose not to follow others who dress/act like this too, it's up to them.

I dont think it's that simple for every girl though Lia Lia; a lot does depend on the parenting and on what goes on behind closed doors as well. Again, it's part down to the shift in what 'normal' means. It's not as cut and dry as girls just being able to stand up for themselves and decide to NOT wear something more exposing... I looked back at a photo of myself recently from when I was 18 (2000) and wore a 'short skirt' to go out to the local disco...IT JUST ABOUT COVERED MY KNEES! Style in general has changed, so that contributes too.

Peer pressure is MASSIVE, and these kids living in a 'digital age' are exposed all sides everyday to how one should look, should act, should be...as opposed to just 'being'. It's bigger than when we (those of us in our twenties and thirties).

I came across that Tavi Gevinson speaking at a TED Teens conference (youtube it), and her website/magazine rookiemag.com actually has some grounded info on empowering young women. We need someone like that over here.

Morag

LadyMayBelle wrote: »

. It's not as cut and dry as girls just being able to stand up for themselves and decide to NOT wear something more exposing...

I disagree with that, I think fostering that self of self and self confidence and empowerment is what is needed so they can do just that. I think it really needed and it starts with simple things and will stand them in good stead up to the the bigger choices and risks like sex and drugs.

LadyMayBelle wrote: »

I came across that Tavi Gevinson speaking at a TED Teens conference (youtube it), and her website/magazine rookiemag.com actually has some grounded info on empowering young women. We need someone like that over here.

We do need more for girls and boys over here places which are not face book.

missyb

I really like Tavi Gevinson too, so intelligent. I hate the way what it is to be sexy is being sold as so narrow and basic, its so different for everyone but the individualty of it has been taken away and now its simply about being draped around a stripper pole and grinding your ass, as though people are cartoon characters without different tastes. Whats sexy to one person is not to another and vice versa, but this narrow view of "sexy" is being rammed down our throats, I cant even make sense of it, I feel bad for teenagers trying to.

Lia_lia

LadyMayBelle wrote: »

I dont think it's that simple for every girl though Lia Lia; a lot does depend on the parenting and on what goes on behind closed doors as well.

It's funny actually, when I was a teenager I never went to discos or anything like that. My Mother actually encouraged me to go to them and allowed me to drink alcohol from a young age. I never did though. She still to this day tries to get me to wear shorter dresses etc when going out for some absurd reason. She actually goes out way more than I do and I'm 25 years younger than her!

Maybe she was just using some kind of reverse psychology thing the whole time, and it worked!

LadyMayBelle

Lia_lia wrote: »

LadyMayBelle wrote: »

I dont think it's that simple for every girl though Lia Lia; a lot does depend on the parenting and on what goes on behind closed doors as well.

It's funny actually, when I was a teenager I never went to discos or anything like that. My Mother actually encouraged me to go to them and allowed me to drink alcohol from a young age. I never did though. She still to this day tries to get me to wear shorter dresses etc when going out for some absurd reason. She actually goes out way more than I do and I'm 25 years younger than her!

Maybe she was just using some kind of reverse psychology thing the whole time, and it worked!

That's quite possible, and as I say nothing is a nothing statement; kids who see violence in the home aren't necessarily gonna become violent us another example.
There are tonnes of factors ( that's what I meant by 'not as cut and dry' Sharrow- I'm incredibly less eloquent on mobile boards!!)
The whole thing makes me think how sad it is to be honest!

Da Shins Kelly

Lia_lia wrote: »

It's funny actually, when I was a teenager I never went to discos or anything like that. My Mother actually encouraged me to go to them and allowed me to drink alcohol from a young age. I never did though. She still to this day tries to get me to wear shorter dresses etc when going out for some absurd reason. She actually goes out way more than I do and I'm 25 years younger than her!

Maybe she was just using some kind of reverse psychology thing the whole time, and it worked!

That could be true. I think it's about a balance. If parents make drinking and going out and all that big taboo subjects, I think teenagers, in their rebellious natures, are more likely to go ahead and cross those boundaries and land themselves in trouble. I've seen it with loads of people - the parents hide the drink away, shelter them their whole lives, and then the minute they get a little bit of freedom, they're off the rails. Likewise, if parents have very blasé attitudes towards alcohol and sex and all that goes with it, I think then it's difficult for kids to know where the boundaries are at all, and may end up doing things that they might regret later. A very uptight attitude to drinking and sex and everything is as unhealthy as an extremely liberal view, I think.