Timing Belt Snapped During DOE Test

Dg_

Has this every happened to anyone , while the emissions was being done van was reved out to the limiter and held for a few seconds then bang belt broke. Where do I stand as in who is going to repair the engine ?

anthony4335

You are, if you look at the forms for the DOE, it is up to the owner to ensure that the engine is up to the test.

lomb

I think unless you signed anything then you can sue the DOE centre for negligence in the small claims court, and Id expect they would pay up as to them the amount is small and its not a regular occurance.

PaulieBoy

lomb wrote: »

I think unless you signed anything then you can sue the DOE centre for negligence in the small claims court, and Id expect they would pay up as to them the amount is small and its not a regular occurance.

Stick with the day job!
It's your tough luck, nothing to do with them. It's wrong and I don't agree with it but that's the way it is!

Dg_

PaulieBoy wrote: »

lomb wrote: »

I think unless you signed anything then you can sue the DOE centre for negligence in the small claims court, and Id expect they would pay up as to them the amount is small and its not a regular occurance.

Stick with the day job!
It's your tough luck, nothing to do with them. It's wrong and I don't agree with it but that's the way it is!

Part of the test is to check with the owner that the belt has being changed in accordance with the vechile manufacturer , this was not done.

Dg_

No paperwork was signed.

volvoman480

They broke it, they pay for it. It used to be the case that you had to sign a disclaimer before a DOE but not not for a long time.

Mycroft H

volvoman480 wrote: »

They broke it, they pay for it. It used to be the case sithat you had to sign a disclaimer before a DOE but not not for a long time.

I would agree. If you didnt sign anthing well then they can pay for it.

They broke it, they should fix it.

An Ri rua

For the NCT, you are advised that you must have the car at operating temp before it arrives. That would affect the timing belt's chances alright.

Obviously redlining diesels is a crime but we all definitely sign that disclaimer for our NCTs. well, I always have anyway. Not standard for the DOE?? The 10 advice points on the NCT /DOE letter, if you got one, does advise that you must ensure the vehicle engine is fit to be tested. I would think that covers them. As much as it covers a fail if seatbelts are not on show or seats are not clear. We don't sign for those either.

Dg_

I was standing watching the test at the time, he's supposed to purge the van first slowly rev it up an clean out the exhaust but the tester just punched the pedal to the floor and held it for a few seconds then he got the probe and clipped it onto the exhaust and again punched the accelerator to full and held it and bang puff of smoke and all was quiet ! I think it would be obvious to the receptionist in the place that the belt broke, So what would a supposed professional mechanic - tester do ???? He tried starting the the van ! Twice he cranked it, over and over the Damage was done but he was Gona make sure he had every valve an piston focked !

irelandspurs

I was asked when mine was done as he couldn't find any evidence of the last time it was done and said if i wasn't sure when it was done last that he wouldn't continue with the test as there was a risk of it breaking.I gave him permission as i had only just had it done.

An Ri rua

Dg_ wrote: »

I was standing watching the test at the time, he's supposed to purge the van first slowly rev it up an clean out the exhaust but the tester just punched the pedal to the floor and held it for a few seconds then he got the probe and clipped it onto the exhaust and again punched the accelerator to full and held it and bang puff of smoke and all was quiet ! I think it would be obvious to the receptionist in the place that the belt broke, So what would a supposed professional mechanic - tester do ???? He tried starting the the van ! Twice he cranked it, over and over the Damage was done but he was Gona make sure he had every valve an piston focked !

I hope you get compensated because that sounds lousy. I just had my 200K Xantia HDi redlined last week. I f**kin HATE it... No need for it.

Dg_

An Ri rua wrote: »

Dg_ wrote: »

I was standing watching the test at the time, he's supposed to purge the van first slowly rev it up an clean out the exhaust but the tester just punched the pedal to the floor and held it for a few seconds then he got the probe and clipped it onto the exhaust and again punched the accelerator to full and held it and bang puff of smoke and all was quiet ! I think it would be obvious to the receptionist in the place that the belt broke, So what would a supposed professional mechanic - tester do ???? He tried starting the the van ! Twice he cranked it, over and over the Damage was done but he was Gona make sure he had every valve an piston focked !

I hope you get compensated because that sounds lousy. I just had my 200K Xantia HDi redlined last week. I f**kin HATE it... No need for it.

It is crazy the way in which they rev them never are they Gona reach them revs in every day driving and if you tried you would need a long road in my case ! I had a car (diesel) in the Nct centre lately an I couldn't say anything bad about the way he tested it , he just revved it to near full an let it fall off again , none of this redline an hold it ****.

Dg_

An Ri rua wrote: »

For the NCT, you are advised that you must have the car at operating temp before it arrives. That would affect the timing belt's chances alright.

Obviously redlining diesels is a crime but we all definitely sign that disclaimer for our NCTs. well, I always have anyway. Not standard for the DOE?? The 10 advice points on the NCT /DOE letter, if you got one, does advise that you must ensure the vehicle engine is fit to be tested. I would think that covers them. As much as it covers a fail if seatbelts are not on show or seats are not clear. We don't sign for those either.

Booked over the phone , there was a two week wait so they had sufficient time to post the letter with the advice points on it but never did nor was it shown to me on the day, I'm no mechanic so I'm paying them to test my vehicle for me, in my opinion the van was fit for testing to the best of my knowledge, he's the professional here , I'm an electrician myself if I go to someone's house to do any testing the first thing I do is a visual inspection , he is required to do the same when he saw no evidence of a timing belt change he should have stopped what he was doing and ask me when it was last done.

Bearcat

Can't stand the way they rev the boll@x out of jeeps for the doe. My poor old landie never sees the redline except for the doe. Thank god the engine is chain driven but I have to plug me ears with the din.

Feel really sorry for you OP.

Nissan doctor

Its unfortunate that it happened during the test but unfortunatly the belt breaking was 100% due to it being overdue or incorrectly fitted/tensioned etc.

Revving a healthy , fully warmed up diesel to its factory set rev limitter will have no ill effects.

Dg_

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Its unfortunate that it happened during the test but unfortunatly the belt breaking was 100% due to it being overdue or incorrectly fitted/tensioned etc.

Revving a healthy , fully warmed up diesel to its factory set rev limitter will have no ill effects.

I agree with what your saying it's correct. I said limiter earlier but the van has no limiter the last couple of lines on the Rev clock are red for a reason ! It still comes back to the tester not carrying out the test in accordance with the rules set down by the Rsa in the Lgv Testers Manual.

Nissan doctor

Dg_ wrote: »

I agree with what your saying it's correct. I said limiter earlier but the van has no limiter the last couple of lines on the Rev clock are red for a reason ! It still comes back to the tester not carrying out the test in accordance with the rules set down by the Rsa in the Lgv Testers Manual.

What kind of van is it? It must be 20odd+ years old if it hasn't got a rev limiter.

Dg_

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Dg_ wrote: »

I agree with what your saying it's correct. I said limiter earlier but the van has no limiter the last couple of lines on the Rev clock are red for a reason ! It still comes back to the tester not carrying out the test in accordance with the rules set down by the Rsa in the Lgv Testers Manual.

What kind of van is it? It must be 20odd+ years old if it hasn't got a rev limiter.

It's a 9 yr old volkswagen , limiter to me would be stopping it redlining while standing still !

George Dalton

I'm with Nissan Doctor on this one, it is 100% your responsibility, not the tester.

The factor rev limit is a safe limit for the engine assuming everything is in good working order. Obviously this was not the case here.

When was the belt last changed?

Dg_

George Dalton wrote: »

I'm with Nissan Doctor on this one, it is 100% your responsibility, not the tester.

The factor rev limit is a safe limit for the engine assuming everything is in good working order. Obviously this was not the case here.

When was the belt last changed?

So are you saying its ok that he continued the test even when he saw no evidence of when the belt was last changed, It is part of the test to look or ask for info on when the belt was last changed if it cant be verified test must be stopped.

George Dalton

Where are you getting that info from? It is crazy to expect the tester to verify a belt change within a specified interval on each and every van that they test. They wouldn't even have all the technical information that they need to verify that since the intervals vary from engine to engine.

It's up to you to ensure that the vehicle is fit to be tested. End of story.

slimjimmc

Ultimately it's your responsibility to ensure the van was fit for testing. You don't have to be a mechanic so if you're not qualified to make that assessment then you should hire the services of someone who is. Nobody likes to see their engine revved hard to the limiter but the engine and it's components are designed for the stress plus a bit. Imo you'll have a hard time convincing the test centre that they're responsible for their premature failure.

trixyben

The TB is an item which is the owners responsibility to have changed correctly within the said milage or age of the car, if it has been changed within its due dates, not only the belt but pulleys tensioners etc and all done correctly it will be well fit to be put under strain from hard driving imo...

If it was very near the due date to be changed then im afraid thats down to you, if you say it has been changed recently and done properly then its the garage who done the repair you should be taking this up with not the testers as this is something they dont even look at or take into account on the test

Dg_

George Dalton wrote: »

Where are you getting that info from? It is crazy to expect the tester to verify a belt change within a specified interval on each and every van that they test. They wouldn't even have all the technical information that they need to verify that since the intervals vary from engine to engine.

It's up to you to ensure that the vehicle is fit to be tested. End of story.

What's crazy about asking the owner when the belt was changed last I don't expect him to have to read my mind. I know were in Ireland but they have computers in these places now and since its a DOE centre holding a lot of technical info on a range of different vehicles is usually what it's there for ,where do you think he gets all the limits for doing the test emissions etc do you expect every vehicle to be the same ? I brought it to get tracked and the fella typed in the reg and low and behold it brought up all the info the computer needed tolerances etc. Why didn't you do some research on it before preaching to me about What you think should be done and not done. End of story.

Nissan doctor

Dg_ wrote: »

It's a 9 yr old volkswagen , limiter to me would be stopping it redlining while standing still !

The red area of the rev dial indicates the high end of the rev range, there is an electronic limiter which will prevent the engine revving beyond its factory tolerances.

Everyone likes to blame someone else when something breaks on their car but the simple fact is its your responsibility, no-one else's, to ensure that your vehicle is fit for testing.

Lets not forget, as well, that revving the engine at standstill puts very little strain on the engine and if the belt broke while doing this, then it would have broken within the next few times you drove the van anyway.

Dg_

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Dg_ wrote: »

It's a 9 yr old volkswagen , limiter to me would be stopping it redlining while standing still !

The red area of the rev dial indicates the high end of the rev range, there is an electronic limiter which will prevent the engine revving beyond its factory tolerances.

Everyone likes to blame someone else when something breaks on their car but the simple fact is its your responsibility, no-one else's, to ensure that your vehicle is fit for testing.

Lets not forget, as well, that revving the engine at standstill puts very little strain on the engine and if the belt broke while doing this, then it would have broken within the next few times you drove the van anyway.

Are you just arguing a point for the sake of it.Pull up your pants and stop talking through your a.ss ! Within the next few times well that's very technical isn't it , so can you show me where it's wrote that revving the engine to max is putting only a little stress on it! "Let's not forget" was this sumthing everyone learns at school.

Jimdagym

Dg_ wrote: »

was this sumthing everyone learns at school.

You are not really making any effort to learn it now.

Dg_

Jimdagym wrote: »

Dg_ wrote: »

was this sumthing everyone learns at school.

You are not really making any effort to learn it now.

Why would I want to learn Bs , if I want to learn something I'll ask a professional that knows what he's talking about.

Nissan doctor

Dg_ wrote: »

Are you just arguing a point for the sake of it.Pull up your pants and stop talking through your a.ss ! Within the next few times well that's very technical isn't it , so can you show me where it's wrote that revving the engine to max is putting only a little stress on it! "Let's not forget" was this sumthing everyone learns at school.

Its called 4 years of collage, numerous further training classes and 12 years in total experience on the function and precise operation of an engine.

Accelerating on the road puts much more strain(load) on an engine then revving it while stationary.....this is not an opinion!

However, judging by your responses, the qualified and experienced mechanics who have given their educated opinion in this thread are wasting their time.

From now on, don't bother having your vehicle serviced or maintained at all, why waste your money when if it fails, it will be the garage/test centers/last owners/manufacturers or anyone's fault but your own.

Jimdagym

Dg_ wrote: »

Why would I want to learn Bs , if I want to learn something I'll ask a professional that knows what he's talking about.

Look who is replying to you. George Dalton and Nissan Doctor are professionals. Both highly respected mechanics. Now re-read your responses to what they are telling you.
If you keep being this rude to people who are trying to offer you advice instead of just telling you what you want to hear, than you wont get too many more replies to this thread IMO.

Pottler

If it breaks during the test it's your problem. You also do not pass the test. You are not the first person to suffer this, you won't be the last, but please also don't be the whingiest. It's unfortunate, it's sad, but there you go. Better thread might have been "How do I go about repairing a 9 yrs old VW that suffered a broken belt".:) If you ask Nissan Doctor really nicely, and apologise for being twattish to him, he might even advise you how to go about it. I doubt if you could find a better lad to advise you on that subject.

Dg_

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Dg_ wrote: »

Are you just arguing a point for the sake of it.Pull up your pants and stop talking through your a.ss ! Within the next few times well that's very technical isn't it , so can you show me where it's wrote that revving the engine to max is putting only a little stress on it! "Let's not forget" was this sumthing everyone learns at school.

Its called 4 years of collage and 12 years in total experience on the function and precise operation of an engine.

Accelerating on the road puts much more strain(load) on an engine then revving it while stationary.....this is not an opinion!

However, judging by your responses, the qualified and experienced mechanics who have given their educated opinion in this thread are wasting their time.

From now on, don't bother having your vehicle serviced or maintained at all, why waste your money when if it fails, it will be the garage/test centers/last owners/manufacturers or anyone's fault but your own.

I'm not asking for your or any other mechanics expert opinion on why it happened, or who's to blame for the belt braking, I have my own opinion on that,I was asking did it ever happen anyone ,and whos liable to fix it, I said the tester should have checked was it changed because that's what the rsa state they should have done. But a Lot of ppl like to give there opinion without getting any facts about the test procedure , just keep repeating its your responsibility over and over.

Dg_

Pottler wrote: »

If it breaks during the test it's your problem. You also do not pass the test. You are not the first person to suffer this, you won't be the last, but please also don't be the whingiest. It's unfortunate, it's sad, but there you go. Better thread might have been "How do I go about repairing a 9 yrs old VW that suffered a broken belt".:) If you ask Nissan Doctor really nicely, and apologise for being twattish to him, he might even advise you how to go about it. I doubt if you could find a better lad to advise you on that subject.

Another example of talking without really known the facts. I don't need advice on fixing hence why it's not in the title.

Nissan doctor

Ok then:

Dg_ wrote: »

I was asking did it ever happen anyone

Not to my own vehicle(I know the timing belt intervals), but it has happened in my garage while we were doing unrelated work on a car.

Dg_ wrote: »

and whos liable to fix it

You are. Which also answers the question that you didn't ask about who is to blame.





There is a whiff of troll starting to appear around here TBH.

Dg_

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Dg_ wrote: »

Why would I want to learn Bs , if I want to learn something I'll ask a professional that knows what he's talking about.

At least two of the people that have posted in this thread are top mechanics and a number of us her can vouch for their work.

I appreciate that but there still missing the point ! The test was not carried out according to the set rules !

Dg_

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Ok then:

Dg_ wrote: »

I was asking did it ever happen anyone

No, but it has happened in my garage while we were doing unrelated work on a car.

Dg_ wrote: »

and whos liable to fix it

You are.

It's not a car Lgv so a Doe test, and are you up to date with the latest rules set down by the rsa for the testers ?

Dg_

Smell of troll ? I taught I told that fella to pull up his pants !

zenno

Hang on, why would anyone or even a tester want to fully rev the vehicle for said amount of time when the vehicle would never in real life ever be reved to the full for said time ?. No-one will ever drive the vehicle with the accelerator all the way down to the floor.

I'm no techy with mechanics but it seems a dumb thing to do to test the vehicle imo. I'd have the tester pay for the damage end of story.

Nissan doctor

Dg_ wrote: »

It's not a car Lgv so a Doe test, and are you up to date with the latest rules set down by the rsa for the testers ?

Look we are wasting our time here.

The belt did not snap because the tester didn't ask a question, it snapped because the vehicle wasn't maintained properly.....meaning, that without question, the test center is not responsible, the same thing applies with the NCT test.

You have your own opinions though(educated and fact based, no doubt) so best of luck.:rolleyes:

Dg_

zenno wrote: »

Hang on, why would anyone or even a tester want to fully rev the vehicle for said amount of time when the vehicle would never in real life ever be reved to the full for said time ?. No-one will ever drive the vehicle with the accelerator all the way down to the floor.

I'm no techy with mechanics but it seems a dumb thing to do to test the vehicle imo. I'd have the tester pay for the damage end of story.

its part of the test but before you start the van the tester is ment to insure the belt has being changed according to the manufacturers set rules ,if not you dont continue with the test .

Nissan doctor

zenno wrote: »

Hang on, why would anyone or even a tester want to fully rev the vehicle for said amount of time when the vehicle would never in real life ever be reved to the full for said time ?. No-one will ever drive the vehicle with the accelerator all the way down to the floor.

I'm no techy with mechanics but it seems a dumb thing to do to test the vehicle imo. I'd have the tester pay for the damage end of story.

The smoke test is done over the full rev/power range that the vehicle is capable of. The test is based on what the vehicle is capable of, not how the driver actually uses it.

I drive a diesel and have no issue using high revs and running up to the rev limiter when needed for overtaking or whatever....nor would I be concerned about anything failing due to this....in fact, considering that high amounts of build up are the cause of many diesel running problems, using the full rev range every so often to clear it out fully could be deemed as good for the engine..

Nissan doctor

Dg_ wrote: »

its part of the test but before you start the van the tester is ment to insure the belt has being changed according to the manufacturers set rules ,if not you dont continue with the test .

Before you bring the van to be tested, you are supposed to ensure that the vehicle has been maintained properly and is capable of being tested, and if not, it shouldn't have even been presented to the tester in the first place.

As I think someone asked already, when was the belt last changed?

zenno

I agree as it only takes a couple of seconds for the tester to ask this question and yes I think it's imperative that the tester asks when the timing belt was last changed. What sort of idiot would test a vehicle as flooring the accelerator for a period of time knowing there could be a chance of the belt snapping. stupid test and should be abolished.

Nissan doctor

zenno wrote: »

I agree as it only takes a couple of seconds for the tester to ask this question and yes I think it's imperative that the tester asks when the timing belt was last changed. What sort of idiot would test a vehicle as flooring the accelerator for a period of time knowing there could be a chance of the belt snapping. stupid test and should be abolished.

The Irish test centers didn't just wake up one day and say 'wouldn't it be a laugh if we revved the life out of everyone engine to see what happens'
The DOE testing methods, as with the NCT ones, are recognised methods used Europe wide and designed in conjunction with vehicle manufacturers.

zenno

Nissan doctor wrote: »

The Irish test centers didn't just wake up one day and say 'wouldn't it be a laugh if we revved the life out of everyone engine to see what happens'
The DOE testing methods, as with the NCT ones, are recognised methods used Europe wide and designed in conjunction with vehicle manufacturers.

Ok then, lets just say I had a couple of thousand miles left before i needed to change the timing belt and i was going to change it close to the specified change time and I said to myself well i have a few thousand miles left before i needed to change it, and I had to leave it in for the test straight away and they fully reved it with this junk and my belt snapped ?. I'm sure there is a very good possibility the belt could snap even if it had a few thousand miles left on it ?.

I just think that reving the life out of the vehicle for a few seconds can cause wear and tear in some way. but like i said I'm no mechanic.

Nissan doctor

zenno wrote: »

Ok then, lets just say I had a couple of thousand miles left before i needed to change the timing belt and i was going to change it close to the specified change time and I said to myself well i have a few thousand miles left before i needed to change it, and I had to leave it in for the test straight away and they fully reved it with this junk and my belt snapped ?. I'm sure there is a very good possibility the belt could snap even if it had a few thousand miles left on it ?.

I just think that reving the life out of the vehicle for a few seconds can cause wear and tear in some way. but like i said I'm no mechanic.

A correctly fitted, good quality belt/belt kit will not break once within its specified life span just by revving the engine.

Accelerating up to speed or up a hill(normal everyday driving) puts several times more load on an engine then revving it at standstill.

challengemaster

Alright, I'm not going to claim to be the most knowlegable in this area, obviously ND and George would have a much better idea.

If we all can agree that the belt snapped because it was either fitted wrong, a bad quality part, or had exceeded it's stated life

Would the fact that the belt snapping occurred during a situation where it's being revved excessively have caused more engine damage and thus carrying a larger repair bill?

If so, then it would certainly seem fair that the DOE centre contributes towards the repairs.

zenno

Nissan doctor wrote: »

A correctly fitted, good quality belt/belt kit will not break once within its specified life span just by revving the engine.

Accelerating up to speed or up a hill(normal everyday driving) puts several times more load on an engine then revving it at standstill.

I see. makes sense obviously, I just didn't think of that one.

Nonoperational

I don't see how the DOE have any responsibility at all to be honest. You could rev it at 7000 revs for 5 minutes straight and it won't affect a belt that's within it's stated lifespan.

Nissan doctor

challengemaster wrote: »

Alright, I'm not going to claim to be the most knowlegable in this area, obviously ND and George would have a much better idea.

If we all can agree that the belt snapped because it was either fitted wrong, a bad quality part, or had exceeded it's stated life

Would the fact that the belt snapping occurred during a situation where it's being revved excessively have caused more engine damage and thus carrying a larger repair bill?

If so, then it would certainly seem fair that the DOE centre contributes towards the repairs.

But unless the rev limiter has been removed or is faulty somehow then the engine can't be revved excessively.