The digital distribution future

Josey Wales

The topic of an all digital distribution future for the video game industry is a topic that has been discussed on and off during this generation of consoles. I've heard it discussed on numerous podcasts and it featured in some of the rumours about the next generation of consoles. There have been some steps taken already with full retail releases on the SEN and on Xbox Live but so far selections have been limited and the prices noncompetitive with traditional retail options. Now Nintendo has announced that they will be taking big steps into the digital distribution world with new first party titles available digitally at the same time as retail copies, starting with NSMB 2.

I'd like to know if everyone is happy with this direction?

Personally, I like to have a physical copy of the games I buy. I like putting the box on my shelf to display, to create a large library of games for a system. (One day when I get my own dedicated media room my collection will look great ) But when I buy downloadable titles I tend to forget that I own them. Out of sight, out of mind.

Then there is the single biggest issue about digital copies of games, ownership. If we buy the game and download it do we own it, or do we just own a license to play it as long as we have the machine that we downloaded it on. I might have bought more Virtual Console games on the Wii if I had been sure that Nintendo would allow us to transfer those games to any future system. I'm not convinced that is going to happen. The same goes for Sony and Microsoft. If either company makes major changes to the architecture of their new consoles it will rule out backwards compatibility. Will this be true for our digital games aswell?

Obviously this post was made mainly with consoles in mind because PC gamers are used to digital downloads of games with Steam etc...

Anyone want to share their opinions?

hooradiation

Josey Wales wrote: »

Personally, I like to have a physical copy of the games I buy. I like putting the box on my shelf to display, to create a large library of games for a system. (One day when I get my own dedicated media room my collection will look great ) But when I buy downloadable titles I tend to forget that I own them. Out of sight, out of mind.

Someone's not moved house recently I take it.

Bloody physical copies can go die in a fire, as far as I'm concerned.
Digital distribution is so goddamn convenient it's a travesty it's not become the main method of content delivery on all platforms.

Also, my 100+ games library doesn't need to be packed, carried and unpacked with digital distribution.

wyrn

hooradiation wrote: »

Someone's not moved house recently I take it.

Bloody physical copies can go die in a fire, as far as I'm concerned.

I have to disagree with you there. I've done a complete 180 on this. At first digital distribution was very handy. Instant games, cheap sales and being able to gift.

Now, I'm worried that all the money I spent on Steam might someday disappear. I also hate being forced to use Origin for ME. I wish that there was the option to burn a physical copy of a game after purchasing it online (I'd even pay extra for this piece of mind).

johnny_ultimate

I like have a good physical game collection, but frankly I have no qualms whatsoever with the shift towards digital distribution. As long as HDD sizes and broadband speeds are able to match what's being distributed, it's all good in my books. It's theoretically cheaper and easier: not quite there yet, but once I get over my nostalgic attachment to physical copies I realise I'm just receiving the same thing without the need for more shelves.

Game collecting will always be there for hobbyists, but the actual process of playing differs little if at all with digital distribution. A few kinks need to be ironed out - i.e. what happens to a game if the servers go offline?, the emergence of a more competitive digital marketplace - but other than that Viva La Revolution! Viva! Viva!

hooradiation

wyrn wrote: »

I have to disagree with you there. I've done a complete 180 on this. At first digital distribution was very handy. Instant games, cheap sales and being able to gift.

Now, I'm worried that all the money I spent on Steam might someday disappear. I also hate being forced to use Origin for ME. I wish that there was the option to burn a physical copy of a game after purchasing it online (I'd even pay extra for this piece of mind).

AFAIR you can do this with Steam, if you feel so inclined.

As for the fear it might all vanish - can't say it concerns me.
Older hardware breaks, CD's only have about 10 years or so before they just stop working, less if someone cut corners somewhere. Hell, getting older games to work on a PC can be impossible sometimes, thanks to OS shenanigans.

Physical copies aren't much more 'secure' than their digital counterparts, as far as I can see. So I feel pretty justified in trading that feeling of security for the convenience of digital distribution.

CastorTroy

I think if the digital copies work on later generations then it'll be much better. For example any games purchased off the Playstation Store now should work on the PS4.
A downside of digital retail games is the size. And if you buy a game on impulse you have to wait a long time to play it. So until speeds and caps become better, then I don't see it becoming the main way.
something that would be great would be if the games were prepatched. I remember downloading Burnout Paradise with Playstation Plus and after downloading, I decided to try it out only for a massive patch to begin downloading. If a patch is required, the games should be updated on the store.

Josey Wales

hooradiation wrote: »

Someone's not moved house recently I take it.

Nope, but I look forward to the opportunity to allow me to totally reorganise my collection. To try to get a whole separate room.

CastorTroy wrote: »

something that would be great would be if the games were prepatched. I remember downloading Burnout Paradise with Playstation Plus and after downloading, I decided to try it out only for a massive patch to begin downloading. If a patch is required, the games should be updated on the store.

This is also a bugbear of mine. I downloaded plenty of things from the PS+ service only to find that I need to download a patch when I go to play it. Surely it should be a simple matter of having the latest build ready to go on the server.

Retr0gamer

The digital distribution model works well on PC where there is plenty of competition and prices are fair for customers but on the consoles there's a monopoly. I can see new games coming out for silly prices like 70 euros and staying that way for years because it's the only place you can buy these games. The lack of competition is bad for me as a consumer. And then there's losing games if one of these companies goes bust.

CastorTroy

It will be interesting to see how the digital downloads work for Nintendo. Not so much their prices in the eStore, but since they say they'll let retailers sell download codes as well as the physical copies. Will the retailers charge the same for both?

uncle_sam_ie

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

As long as HDD sizes and broadband speeds are able to match what's being distributed, it's all good in my books.

That's the problem for Ireland though. I'm lucky to have 2meg DSL my neighbours two miles down the road can't even get a phone line.

o1s1n

hooradiation wrote: »

CD's only have about 10 years or so before they just stop working.

Well that's just not true. There was disc rot with lots of laserdiscs due to oxidation, and to a far less extent some early CDs.

However If a CD is cared for and not scratched, it'll last for a lot longer than 10 years. Also, games tend to be pressed on better quality discs.

I have hundreds of CD based games and they all still work fine. Most of my ps1 stuff would be pushing 15+ years (jesus, some of them would be approaching 20!) and they still work.

I do understand what you mean about moving though, I moved a load of games and consoles about a year ago and it was an absolute massive pain in the arse. Then I had to worry about where they were being stored, damp etc.

Still, I don't think the hassle is big enough to push me 100% digital.

BlitzKrieg

Then there is the single biggest issue about digital copies of games, ownership. If we buy the game and download it do we own it, or do we just own a license to play it as long as we have the machine that we downloaded it on. I might have bought more Virtual Console games on the Wii if I had been sure that Nintendo would allow us to transfer those games to any future system. I'm not convinced that is going to happen. The same goes for Sony and Microsoft. If either company makes major changes to the architecture of their new consoles it will rule out backwards compatibility. Will this be true for our digital games aswell?

There is a misconception here and the unpopular truth is no you dont own the game even when you buy the physical copy. So changing over to the digital platform offers no greater risk then buying a copy of mario galaxy 2 for your Wii. Once the disk breaks or you lose the means to play it, nintendo will not replace it for you, they will expect you to go out and buy it again.


Every fear you have expressed can and did occur with physical copies in the case of microsoft and sony and the original xbox and playstation 2 towards the playstation 3 and 360. Both had major architecture changes and could only offer limited backward compatibility (limited includes select consoles offering full compatibility that are as rare as diamonds nowadays before anyone brings up the original US/Jap ps3 models). As such my copy of strangers wrath is useless unless I buy an original xbox or find a decent xbox emulator.

If nintendo didnt allow you to transfer your VC account to the Wii U from the Wii how different is that from you owning a snes and buying a N64? You couldnt take Super Metroid with you to the N64.

Also the *like having the box/cd* argument is just a matter of time. They said the same for music when itunes start taking off and now look. All it takes is for the level of convenience to be great enough that you cant resist, it's not at that point yet, but it has reached it for music (the ipod) and for film/TV (netflix) so perhaps the next generation and the uptake of cloud services will be the kicker for videogames.

Though I'd say there'll be some thoughts which model would be better for them. The netflix monthly subscription for a large library system or the current purchase/rent model of itunes xbox live, onlive, VC etc.

It's a matter of which fits the market better. I mean the netflix model thrives on the notion that the idea of ownership of the product has been removed, sheer choice/convenience trumps the notion of ownership and I dont think anyone is under the illusion that they own season 4 of Eureka on netflix.

Would people complain about the idea of ownership as much if instead of buying old nintendo games that they instead spent £10 a month for access to the 8-bit-16-bit library. It might be cheaper in the long run if you bought individual titles you wanted to play, but the sheer convenience and choice from a netflix model might suit some more.

I must admit I'm surprised Onlive didn't try to negotiate a deal of this sort with some publishers. Perhaps they did. I'm beginning to think that compared to other entertainment industries the game industry lacks long term thinking. ( the gamestop debacle is enough proof of that) edit: actually onlive has that playback bundle so they did do a version of the netflix model


Speaking of Onlive. They are probably the only risk out there with digital distribution. If the company fails then the service disappears and since their service is entirely cloud based then yes it is a greater risk then a physical copy. But since none of the other services are completely cloud based, then Onlive are the only risky option.

chrislad

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The digital distribution model works well on PC where there is plenty of competition and prices are fair for customers but on the consoles there's a monopoly. I can see new games coming out for silly prices like 70 euros and staying that way for years because it's the only place you can buy these games. The lack of competition is bad for me as a consumer. And then there's losing games if one of these companies goes bust.

I agree on this point - take PSN - FIFA Street is 69.99 to download, a new title. It's less than 50 in a bricks and mortar store, plus you can trade it back in.

Retr0gamer

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

There is a misconception here and the unpopular truth is no you dont own the game even when you buy the physical copy.

As much a the copyright holders would like to let you think that most court cases on this matter seem to disagree and you do actually own the physical copy.

Overheal

As much a the copyright holders would like to let you think that most court cases on this matter seem to disagree and you do actually own the physical copy.

Yes, you own physical plastic product; you don't own the game content though. You are not free to modify or copy or redistribute it. You have a license that says how you can use that plastic. Those two creepy Japanese fellas from the original "Wii would like to play" commercial are not going to come busting down your door looking to take your box art away from you though.

hooradiation wrote: »

Also, my 100+ games library doesn't need to be packed, carried and unpacked with digital distribution.

Eh, mine does. My library has no problem filling a TB

wyrn wrote: »

I have to disagree with you there. I've done a complete 180 on this. At first digital distribution was very handy. Instant games, cheap sales and being able to gift.

Now, I'm worried that all the money I spent on Steam might someday disappear. I also hate being forced to use Origin for ME. I wish that there was the option to burn a physical copy of a game after purchasing it online (I'd even pay extra for this piece of mind).

Your steam files can be burned onto DVD. Theres a utility in steam for this.

Like steam said when it launched it did so with the contingency that if the system went tits up, they would untether whatever game executables they were allowed to from the Steamworks component of DRM. Meaning if you bought say Half Life and the whole plan went under, you'd get an executable that simply asks for your game's serial key, like the olden days, and no longer ask to shake hands with Steam before launching.

I'd imagine they have this agreement with all games that use Steamworks.

And now at this point the digital media industry is far too large: rest assured if they go under it will turn into a mega-sized lawsuit for release of user license agreements. The business model as it stands though is now far too successful: it's not going anywhere but up.

CastorTroy wrote: »

something that would be great would be if the games were prepatched. I remember downloading Burnout Paradise with Playstation Plus and after downloading, I decided to try it out only for a massive patch to begin downloading. If a patch is required, the games should be updated on the store.

Sounds like a personal problem: Steam has functioned that way since, ever. As long as steam is running it will receive game updates that are installed on your system. I assume Impulse and Origin are this way also but I don't run them nearly as much.

Grumpypants

I moved house recently and as i was without broadband for about 2-3 weeks i realized a huge flaw with digital gaming.

Obviously Onlive was gone completely along with the 200+ games.
Steam also gone.
All the PS+ games are tied to an account and when i went to play them it asked my to sign into the playstation network! Again couldn't do this so couldn't play any of those game i had downloaded either.

I was very glad to have a box full of disks that i could play.

BlitzKrieg

Retr0gamer wrote: »

As much a the copyright holders would like to let you think that most court cases on this matter seem to disagree and you do actually own the physical copy.

keyword there

BlitzKrieg

Steam also gone.

You can log into steam offline and still play all the games you downloaded

All the PS+ games are tied to an account and when i went to play them it asked my to sign into the playstation network! Again couldn't do this so couldn't play any of those game i had downloaded either.

Cant speak for PSN but again like steam with xbox live you can log in offline and play all the games you have downloaded.

wyrn

Overheal wrote: »

Those two creepy Japanese fellas from the original "Wii would like to play" commercial are not going to come busting down your door looking to take your box art away from you though.

Ha! Now there's a mental image.

Your steam files can be burned onto DVD. Theres a utility in steam for this.

Cheers! I didn't realise. I don't know why or how I missed this. A few years ago, my desktop was starting to die and I wanted to transfer the orange box onto my laptop (which had it's own issues including not being able to connect to the internet).

dmcg90

I'm actually doing a thesis involving this, this is great stuff!

hooradiation

o1s1n wrote: »

Well that's just not true. There was disc rot with lots of laserdiscs due to oxidation, and to a far less extent some early CDs.

However If a CD is cared for and not scratched, it'll last for a lot longer than 10 years. Also, games tend to be pressed on better quality discs.

I have hundreds of CD based games and they all still work fine. Most of my ps1 stuff would be pushing 15+ years (jesus, some of them would be approaching 20!) and they still work.

Ehh, I've seen them go kaput in under two years but whatever. Lucky you, I guess.
Point is they won't last forever.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

You can log into steam offline and still play all the games you downloaded



.

yeah, I was in a similar situation a year ago when I moved apartment. forgot to set my steam to offline mode before I packed up the computer, when I got to internetless apartment.. was ****ed
just connected phone to pc, go online with steam for 1 second. set it to offline mode, then disconnect phone internet. all steam games now available.

JohnMarston

It will be a dark day when you can no longer buy a physical copy of a game

BlitzKrieg

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

yeah, I was in a similar situation a year ago when I moved apartment. forgot to set my steam to offline mode before I packed up the computer, when I got to internetless apartment.. was ****ed
just connected phone to pc, go online with steam for 1 second. set it to offline mode, then disconnect phone internet. all steam games now available.

???

Do you actually need to do that?

Whenever I cant get online my steam just asks me if I want to change to offline mode when it's booting up.

Overheal

I always did it the way Mordy does it.

JohnMarston wrote: »

It will be a dark day when you can no longer buy a physical copy of a game

That must be what you mean, since video games are all virtual, and nobody has put out a really useful game manual in years, since game design has pretty much dictated it's extinction.

Most especially in PC space, because the Online platform is so successful retailers sit on physical copies forever, to the point where they might still have things on the shelf for full price even when their MMO servers went offline years ago. The exact same thing will happen to console games within a generation or two.

Retr0gamer

hooradiation wrote: »

Ehh, I've seen them go kaput in under two years but whatever. Lucky you, I guess.
Point is they won't last forever.

Unless you've been using them to sand the floor they should last. Not got any CD games that don't work and they date back as far as 1992.

ShadowHearth

I love digital distribution, but I really hated it when my Internet connection was down for 2 weeks.
Found my old civ 4 disc - did not realised when connecion was back

Corkfeen

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

???

Do you actually need to do that?

Whenever I cant get online my steam just asks me if I want to change to offline mode when it's booting up.

Nope, all you have to do is have the setting to save credential on steam. Then it allows offline access whenever you want.

JohnMarston

Overheal wrote: »

I always did it the way Mordy does it.




That must be what you mean, since video games are all virtual, and nobody has put out a really useful game manual in years, since game design has pretty much dictated it's extinction.

Most especially in PC space, because the Online platform is so successful retailers sit on physical copies forever, to the point where they might still have things on the shelf for full price even when their MMO servers went offline years ago. The exact same thing will happen to console games within a generation or two.

:rolleyes: I obviously meant a copy of a video game i can pick off the shelf and buy. Did i say board game?

Overheal

JohnMarston wrote: »

:rolleyes: I obviously meant a copy of a video game i can pick off the shelf and buy. Did i say board game?

Well you said physical game. Video games are virtual. How the 0s and 1s are delivered to you seem fairly inconsequential.

JohnMarston

Overheal wrote: »

Well you said physical game. Video games are virtual. How the 0s and 1s are delivered to you seem fairly inconsequential.

Fantastic

Popoutman

The content distributors want to have their cake and to eat it, regarding the physical disks. One one hand they say you have a license to use it, in which case a replacement of the media would be a non-issue. However if you were sold a physical copy then you can do what you see fit with that copy - include make your own copies for your own use if you wish, to trade in that physical copy, etc. With the moves in place to try to prevent the secondhand games market from progressing one would have to be careful where one buys the games from...

I now buy all my PC games from GOG.com as I'm not in need of the latest blockbuster game with only 10 hours of playability in it. I get to download a DRM-free copy of the game installation, that I can burn to CD or copy to any external device - it's great! I can even download it again without worry!

I have a rather extensive steam collection as well, but that is all backed up and I can play that as I see fit even if I can't sell those games. Assets that instantly depreciate after purchase to a net worth of zero. If I can get a game drm-free I will - such as Legend of Grimrock or the humble bundles

I think that the GOG model is the one that will show the most promise and that will please the most people. Prices at the right point, more purchases at that price point and no annoying safedisk or other broken shiny-disk sh|te to deal with. Pay, download, run, enjoy. No faffing.
It beats the attempted lockin from the likes of ubisoft - whose digital restriction management efforts have turned me off all of their titles and I have found that when I mistakenly bought a game without reading who the distributor was and then found it was a company that was dumb about the digital restriction management - I simply refused to open the package and I torrented the pirated version. This meant I was covered from all angles as I had paid for my copy of the media and the download was nothing more than a format shift. The company never got to install its restriction stuff on my pc, and I got to play the game.

Varik

Popoutman wrote: »

It beats the attempted lockin from the likes of ubisoft - whose digital restriction management efforts have turned me off all of their titles and I have found that when I mistakenly bought a game without reading who the distributor was and then found it was a company that was dumb about the digital restriction management - I simply refused to open the package and I torrented the pirated version. This meant I was covered from all angles as I had paid for my copy of the media and the download was nothing more than a format shift. The company never got to install its restriction stuff on my pc, and I got to play the game.

You're covered by 1 angle, that the company is probably not arsed to be after you.