Partner isn't out

OldNotWIse

Sorry if this is in the wrong place. Having an issue with my partner. We are two lesbians and have been in a relationship for just over a year. She is from a different country and is living here. We plan to go to visit her country during the summer, meet the family etc and I have just been told that when we go, I am to be "her friend". I understand she is not out and perhaps needs time to work up to telling her parents but when I hinted at this she more or less said she may never tell them! So I am essentially being asked to live my life as someone's dirty little secret. I went to the trouble of coming out, took the risk and worked with my family to come to terms with it etc and now I am expected to go scuttling back into the closet because she is too afraid to "disrespect" her mother. Am I being unreasonable? I dont expect her to come out right away but I am also not willing to spend the rest of my life hiding and pretending not to be the person I am.

Dravokivich

Has she provided any explaination behind this?

It's a tough one to call. If she is close to her mother, she may not want to disappoint her. Even though there's nothing wrong with homosexuality in any way, some people are still uncomfortable with it unfortunately. Perhaps her mother is the same way. I suppose it depends on whether you feel strongly enough for this girl to "act" straight/like a friend for the time that you're there.

OldNotWIse

Dravokivich wrote: »

Has she provided any explaination behind this?

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I feel so alone. She just said that its out of respect for her mother, that she knows her mother doesn't want to know (which implies that she knows on some level) and that she doesn't feel the need to rub it in. I understand this (and I told her b4 I dont mind going this time as her "friend" and meeting them and then at some point - as was implied b4- that she would have the conversation) but I was shocked when she said she would NEVER tell them :eek: her brother is gay, and out to their parents, so they are clearly not 100% homophobic and its not like they will take her out and shoot her or anything. It's like the "respect for my mother" line is a brick wall that I cannot permeate and no matter what I say, this is the line that she keeps coming back to. Imo it is more disrespectful to live a secret life and lie to your mother's face but perhaps she thinks this is a lesser evil

OldNotWIse

Deleted User wrote: »

It's a tough one to call. If she is close to her mother, she may not want to disappoint her. Even though there's nothing wrong with homosexuality in any way, some people are still uncomfortable with it unfortunately. Perhaps her mother is the same way. I suppose it depends on whether you feel strongly enough for this girl to "act" straight/like a friend for the time that you're there.

Good point, I am lucky that ny parents have always been very supportive, loving and accepting, and I can appreciate that not all people have this on their side. I didn't have a big issue with this time tbh, but it was when she said that she might "never come out" that I thought I dont want to spend the rest of my life being someone's dirty secret.

Dravokivich

I'm not entirely too sure how she could be doing it for her mother if her brother is also homosexual and she acknowledges her mother doesn't seem to have any issues with it.

I'm kind of thinking does she feel she owes her mother something?

Overall though, I'd find it hard to be in a full relationship with someone who out and out says that they are not going to make that relationship known to their family. Which is what will occur here if she is never going to introduce you to them as her partner.

Lux23

If you think back to hard you may have found to make the first steps to coming out you may have a better idea as to why she is so reluctant to do so herself. It's not easy for the majority of gay men and women to make this step and I think by pressuring her and making this issue more about how you feel you will just make the decision harder for her. And I don't know where she is from but Ireland is hardly the most enlightened of countries so I can just imagine what it may be like for someone from a Eastern Bloc country.

Give her time and offer your support, and remember she obviously loves you so try not to feel like a dirty little secret because I am sure you aren't.

Sleepy

You say her brother is also gay, could it be a "not wanting to make her parents realise they'll never have grandchildren" thing?

OldNotWIse

Sleepy wrote: »

You say her brother is also gay, could it be a "not wanting to make her parents realise they'll never have grandchildren" thing?

I'm not sure, she has 2 other sisters, one married and the other has a child

OldNotWIse

Dravokivich wrote: »

I'm not entirely too sure how she could be doing it for her mother if her brother is also homosexual and she acknowledges her mother doesn't seem to have any issues with it.

I'm kind of thinking does she feel she owes her mother something?

Overall though, I'd find it hard to be in a full relationship with someone who out and out says that they are not going to make that relationship known to their family. Which is what will occur here if she is never going to introduce you to them as her partner.

Exactly. I will always be second fiddle. I love her but I dont want to spend my life being a lie

28064212

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Exactly. I will always be second fiddle. I love her but I dont want to spend my life being a lie

Personally, I'd be willing to have a relationship with someone who didn't want me to interact with their family at all. That's their decision. However, I absolutely would not take part in some "act", pretending that I wasn't really going out with them, lying to their family's faces. That would sicken me and I wouldn't have any part of it

Johnny_BravoIII

Seeing as she doesn't even live in the same county as her folks, what difference does it make?

Who are you to super-impose your idea of the relationship she should have with her mother?
Surely her relationship with her family is her's to nuture as she see's fit?

I can understand the awkardness of "pretending" to be friends whilst visiting.
I'd suggest you don't visit.

I sorta agree with the previous poster - they're not in the same country, so it shouldn't affect your relationship here. If she does have a gay brother, I'm sure she'll come out in her own time to her mother.

Idle Passerby

Maybe I'm cynical but is it possible she's keeping her sexuality a secret because she's young and experimenting and so that at some stage she can turn around and lead a "normal" straight life?

baby and crumble

Hey OP. I'm in a somewhat similar situation as you, in that I'm out to all my friends and family, and have been in a relationship with my partner for 8 years. She's not out to some members of her family, and basically won't ever be. It took me a long time to understand why. I felt a lot like you did, like a "dirty little secret" and all that. But as time went by, I came around to the idea that this was just how it was. It didn't mean that my partner doesn't love me, or isn't proud to be with me- I'm not kept a secret, I'm just known as the best friend to some people. However, I made sure my partner knew that if I was ever asked if we was gay, or if we were going out, I was not going to lie. All her family knows I am gay, and in all honesty I think everyone knows we're together, but no-one is saying anything out in the open, and to be honest, that's fine. It's not ideal,but to be honest I'm not a "shout it from the rooftops" kind of girl anyway.

Lots of people will say stuff like "if she's going to hide you she doesn't love you" or whatever, but life isn't black and white, what works for one person won't work for another. You need to explain all this to your girlfriend and see what she says. Try not to bring it to the level of "if you love me, you'll choose me!" unless you are happy for her to either choose her family and leave you, or for you to be the person that made sure she lost contact with her family. It's that simple.

Chucky the tree

While the brother is gay maybe coming out damaged his relationship with his parents and your gf doesn't want to risk that if she is really close to them? Also, at the time he brother came out maybe the mother confided in your gf her actual feelings towards the brother. Also if your gf is brining her "best friend" over to visit them and for family occasions I'm sure they'll cop on to what is actually going on.

Wompa1

I don't get what the big deal is? If my partner didn't want me to meet her parents then I wouldn't. No big deal, I'm not in a relationship with them, I'm in a relationship with her.

Its your partners decision. If it's a big deal to you then I'd just leave her to it.

Sappa

Got to respect her wishes in this,go along with her enjoy the hol and someday she may turn right round or yer may indeed finish causing her unnecessary stress now.

OldNotWIse

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

Seeing as she doesn't even live in the same county as her folks, what difference does it make?

Who are you to super-impose your idea of the relationship she should have with her mother?
Surely her relationship with her family is her's to nuture as she see's fit?

I can understand the awkardness of "pretending" to be friends whilst visiting.
I'd suggest you don't visit.

It's not "awkard" it's pretending to be someone I am not because she is ashamed of what we have together (though given that her brother is out to her parents and they haven't taken him out and shot him yet would suggest the "problem" with being gay might lie more with her than them)

OldNotWIse

Wompa1 wrote: »

I don't get what the big deal is? If my partner didn't want me to meet her parents then I wouldn't. No big deal, I'm not in a relationship with them, I'm in a relationship with her.

Its your partners decision. If it's a big deal to you then I'd just leave her to it.

Easier said than done. But like another poster pointed out, NOT meeting them is one thing, being expected to meet them and pretend you're something you're not is something else. Tempting as it is to leave her go by herself and say to hell with it, if I don't go, I will be the worst in the world.

OldNotWIse

Chucky the tree wrote: »

While the brother is gay maybe coming out damaged his relationship with his parents and your gf doesn't want to risk that if she is really close to them? Also, at the time he brother came out maybe the mother confided in your gf her actual feelings towards the brother. Also if your gf is brining her "best friend" over to visit them and for family occasions I'm sure they'll cop on to what is actually going on.

Thats something I hadn't considered actually. Having two gay children is no doubt a bigger disappointment than having one, though she told me her parents "found out" she was gay when she was 16 and since then have basically buried their heads in the sand. She more or less said, "I'm sorry Mammy and Daddy I promise I'll never be agy again" :mad:
We had a discussion about it over the weekend and she really wants my support on this so as her partner, I guess that's my job. I'm thankful that at least my parents are open and accepting and actually are very fond of her, so at least that's half the battle. If her parents want to be prejudiced, I refuse to make that my problem. I'll support her alright but under no circumstance will I masquerade as straight and pretend to have a male partner back in Ireland or anythign like that. If anything, her relationship with my parents will at least make her see that hiding in the shadows is not the norm for all families, and perhaps this will give her the courage to talk to her parents someday. Like you said (and something I believe myself), her parents would want to be pretty dumb not to know, and I guess the onus is on me to show them that I'm not some dungarees-sporting, ott radical lesbian, but just someone who cares for their daughter.

Added to this the fact that her brother knows (we have stayed with him before) as well as her two sisters.

LittleBook

OldNotWIse wrote: »

It's not "awkard" it's pretending to be someone I am not because she is ashamed of what we have together

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I'm thankful that at least my parents are open and accepting and actually are very fond of her, so at least that's half the battle. If her parents want to be prejudiced, I refuse to make that my problem.

As the mother of a gay child, I think you need to look at this another way ... she is not at all ashamed of what you have together, she's ashamed of her own parents and that's a horrible place to be. If anything, the fact that your parents are so good to her possibly makes her feel more embarrassed about how her own parents would be with you.

My daughter's friends think I'm some kind of heroine simply because I love her, get on well with her and have no problem with her sexuality ... how sad is that?! What does that say about their own environments?

OK, she won't be taken outside and shot, but she seems to genuinely believe her coming out could destroy the already tenuous relationship she has with her parents ... living a secret life in a different country.

So all I'm saying is that you should try to bear in mind that this is not about you, how she feels about you or your relationship. She can love you and be ashamed of her parents at the same time.

OldNotWIse

Idle Passerby wrote: »

Maybe I'm cynical but is it possible she's keeping her sexuality a secret because she's young and experimenting and so that at some stage she can turn around and lead a "normal" straight life?

Not cynical. She's 32. Has been actively gay since she was 16. Also she is pretty much out to everyone except her parents. Not being arrogant but I no more think she is straight than someone in a straight relationship might blame their relationship problems on their partner being gay.

OldNotWIse

LittleBook wrote: »

As the mother of a gay child, I think you need to look at this another way ... she is not at all ashamed of what you have together, she's ashamed of her own parents and that's a horrible place to be. If anything, the fact that your parents are so good to her possibly makes her feel more embarrassed about how her own parents would be with you.

My daughter's friends think I'm some kind of heroine simply because I love her, get on well with her and have no problem with her sexuality ... how sad is that?! What does that say about their own environments?

OK, she won't be taken outside and shot, but she seems to genuinely believe her coming out could destroy the already tenuous relationship she has with her parents ... living a secret life in a different country.

So all I'm saying is that you should try to bear in mind that this is not about you, how she feels about you or your relationship. She can love you and be ashamed of her parents at the same time.

Wow thanks for your post, was really honest and has made me stop and think. If her relationship with them is that insecure then the last thing she needs is her partner (who is supposed to love and support her) laying down the law about what she should do. I count myself lucky all the time that I have parents who are open minded and supportive (like you), and wish everyone could. She told me that she really wants me to meet them and that she doesn't want to tell them who I am before in case they decide straight out (no pun intended) not to like me. She said she wants tp "protect" what we have rather than "hide it" which I thought was her just playing with words to make me feel better, but perhaps she was being honest. She said she wanted to tell them someday and just be normal and happy and not have anyone in the dark but she doesn't know if she can.

LittleBook

OldNotWIse wrote: »

She said she wanted to tell them someday and just be normal and happy and not have anyone in the dark but she doesn't know if she can.

With the right support she can ... someday.

OldNotWIse

baby and crumble wrote: »

Hey OP. I'm in a somewhat similar situation as you, in that I'm out to all my friends and family, and have been in a relationship with my partner for 8 years. She's not out to some members of her family, and basically won't ever be. It took me a long time to understand why. I felt a lot like you did, like a "dirty little secret" and all that. But as time went by, I came around to the idea that this was just how it was. It didn't mean that my partner doesn't love me, or isn't proud to be with me- I'm not kept a secret, I'm just known as the best friend to some people. However, I made sure my partner knew that if I was ever asked if we was gay, or if we were going out, I was not going to lie. All her family knows I am gay, and in all honesty I think everyone knows we're together, but no-one is saying anything out in the open, and to be honest, that's fine. It's not ideal,but to be honest I'm not a "shout it from the rooftops" kind of girl anyway.

Lots of people will say stuff like "if she's going to hide you she doesn't love you" or whatever, but life isn't black and white, what works for one person won't work for another. You need to explain all this to your girlfriend and see what she says. Try not to bring it to the level of "if you love me, you'll choose me!" unless you are happy for her to either choose her family and leave you, or for you to be the person that made sure she lost contact with her family. It's that simple.

Hi thanks for that insight. I wouldn't be shouting it from the rooftops either, but I have always been quietly confident about who I am. I dont wish to give her an ultimatum (I always thought people who do this deserve to be the ones who have some else chosen over them) but you just got me thinking about what I would do if they ask me? I hadn't thought about that... They dont speak English though, so I suspect my gf will be like some kind of "censorship hub" in the middle of us all Yes I think I need to make it clear to her that I will not be lying about myself if asked (though I doubt they will ask me). If she wants to lie about herself I can respect that but it works both ways, if I want to be honest about myself, she has to respect that too. it's not a one way street. If they asked me if we were together...I dont know... I wouldn't want to be the one to out her against her will but it's not my decision to lie. I'd probably just say, "you need to ask her, not me if you have those kinds of questions" - ?

OldNotWIse

LittleBook wrote: »

With the right support she can ... someday.

I hope so. We have already overcome so many hurdles (immigration etc) to stay together.

And that's the thing, I guess. You've probably overcome much worse hurdles than this to be together - don't let something somewhat small (I say small when compared to the grander scale of things, not to diminish this actual issue) sour what you've got.

OldNotWIse

Deleted User wrote: »

And that's the thing, I guess. You've probably overcome much worse hurdles than this to be together - don't let something somewhat small (I say small when compared to the grander scale of things, not to diminish this actual issue) sour what you've got.

I'll try. Definitely do not want to lose her over this (ironically, that would probably be just what her parents want) so I am not going to let their small mindedness dictate my happiness. It's made a lot easier by the fact that she lives here, a life that facilitates the lie a lot more than one in her home country. Of course, if we were to live there some day, the terms would have to be different. It's one thing to move halfaway across the world and leave family and friends to be with the one you love, another to do all of that and essentially go "back into" the closet I guess I will make me peace with being a "holiday friend" but it she asks me to re-locate (in the future) then I would need to really give this issue more thought.

OldNotWIse

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I'll try. Definitely do not want to lose her over this (ironically, that would probably be just what her parents want) so I am not going to let their small mindedness dictate my happiness. It's made a lot easier by the fact that she lives here, a life that facilitates the lie a lot more than one in her home country. Of course, if we were to live there some day, the terms would have to be different. It's one thing to move halfaway across the world and leave family and friends to be with the one you love, another to do all of that and essentially go "back into" the closet I guess I will make me peace with being a "holiday friend" but it she asks me to re-locate (in the future) then I would need to really give this issue more thought.

And if you locate over there, you can cross that bridge when it comes. You obviously have something wonderful going on with this woman, something which I hope to find myself in a woman, so don't let her mother's small mindedness affect that. I'm going to assume that if you do locate over there, she's going to come out because obviously you shouldn't be expected to hide the relationship you have.

OldNotWIse

Deleted User wrote: »

And if you locate over there, you can cross that bridge when it comes. You obviously have something wonderful going on with this woman, something which I hope to find myself in a woman, so don't let her mother's small mindedness affect that. I'm going to assume that if you do locate over there, she's going to come out because obviously you shouldn't be expected to hide the relationship you have.

That was my assumption too until last Friday. This is how the whole thing blew up. I had made my peace with the idea that this holiday would be a "closeted" one lol, but that she wasn't completely writing off the idea of some day telling her parents. The blinder was when she said, "I may never tell them". Whatever reservations I may have had about re-locating before, a life of secrecy in a foreign country is not exaclty appealing


Also (and this is very far down the line) but I want a child someday (whether by myself or with my partner). I had decided that before we even met. It's obviously not something we have really discussed yet but it would be another consideration if we were to stay together, move to her country and keep our relationship a secret and I was to have a child, what kind of upbringing would the poor child have? Knowing it had half a family somewhere else that didn't want anything to do with it? I know this is very forward thinking but I know in my heart I want a child so it's something for consideration.

Is there a strong chance that you might be relocating over there? It would probably seem that this might not be an option if she is unwilling to come out to her mother.

OldNotWIse

Deleted User wrote: »

Is there a strong chance that you might be relocating over there? It would probably seem that this might not be an option if she is unwilling to come out to her mother.

I don't know. I don't really want to as I am very close to my family and it's so far away but I always told her I would not say No straight out, that I would keep an open mind about it and would certainly re-locate for a year if I found work and see how it goes. I wont put a blanket "never" as she has done with the idea of coming out, but I also wont promise to move indefinitely.

I really wish I could give you better advice, because I personally have never been in a situation like the one you're currently in, apart from just deal with the being a "holiday friend" and then facing any possible relocation issues when it comes up.

OldNotWIse

Deleted User wrote: »

I really wish I could give you better advice, because I personally have never been in a situation like the one you're currently in, apart from just deal with the being a "holiday friend" and then facing any possible relocation issues when it comes up.

No its cool, I appreciate it. tbh it's probably all that cna be said at the mo. most of life is about waiting and seeing how things unfold. There's no point jumping the gun now. Where a lot of people like "instant gratification" I tend to like instant solutions lol I simply cannot bear the thought of waiting it out and seeing (though I suspect her parents will know soon). Guess that's all that can be done. :rolleyes: