Mortgage debt forgiveness is here, Dublin nurse gets €152k debt write-down

The_Conductor

Rabidlamb wrote: »

So as long as this generation of home-buyers don't get pregnant, or lose their jobs or split up, everything will be fine.
That last bunch were a right unreliable shower.

And they have to have the ability to save a 20% deposit- which at least shows some element of financial prudence (the two lenders in the article- ICS and KBC both will give a max of 80% on the figures being quoted). The journalist didn't present all the facts in his article in an objective manner.

Monty Burnz

Rabidlamb wrote: »

So as long as this generation of home-buyers don't get pregnant, or lose their jobs or split up, everything will be fine.
That last bunch were a right unreliable shower.

Lessons haven't been learned...

RoverZT

smccarrick wrote: »

The topic is about a bank customer, who happens to be a nurse, who is the first person to be granted a mortgage write-down after surrendering her property and its subsequent sale for less than the principle outstanding on it.

If you want to turn it into yet another public sector bashing thread- it is not appropriate for this forum, you have been warned, and you will be banned. Quite simple really.

If you want to discuss Ms. White's employment status- do it elsewhere, or face the consequences.

The end.

Is a private nursing home a public sector job?

No it is not.

I don't know why you are bringing public sector into it:rolleyes:

Why did you just assume that?

Looking for an argument?

It's quite simple really.

Nurses with experience are on savage money here, I showed you an example of it.

There is plentiful employment in that sector, money is great, most private and state hospitals/homes are unionised so most have job secuirty.

She is in one of the few sectors that have not been affected by the recession.

She is in full time employment, fully qualified, on great wages, with plentiful work all around the country, the world.

She doesn't deserve the debt forgiveness.

RoverZT

RoverJames wrote: »

It seems she was earning €70k/annum when she borrowed the €245k, seems quite reasonable a transaction to be fair. Hardly the banks fault she left the job and had a hankering to live in the West of Ireland.

Thank you RoverJames.

Glad to see some people have some cop on here.

Rabidlamb

smccarrick wrote: »

And they have to have the ability to save a 20% deposit- which at least shows some element of financial prudence (the two lenders in the article- ICS and KBC both will give a max of 80% on the figures being quoted). The journalist didn't present all the facts in his article in an objective manner.

Back in my day a deposit was optional as there were more jobs than people & a minimum 6% pay rise was guaranteed every year.
You could also downsize when you retired to release some lovely equity.
My homes brochure spoke of horse racing evening in the Curragh & golf at the K-Club while my wife enjoyed her spa treatment.
They were simpler times with less form filling.

Steven81

Think she did quite well, havent read all pages but the amount she has to repay is of a small amount, repaying between 50-60 euros a week as a nurse if she is still employed as this wont make her poor but i can only think they looked at her circumstances and that is all she can afford.

As for slating nurses they are the ones on the front line, work unsociable hours ( Nights, weekends, christmas) and have to deal with a lot, if you are in a hospital this is seen and think they deserve everything they earn.

odds_on

Part of the problem was that people wanted as much as they could get to buy a house that was often bigger and better than they actually needed - a status symbol.
And today there is the exact same problem - just looking at other threads in Accommodation & Property today, where someone is asking
How much of Net Income should you pay towards Mortgage.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056615900

Ok, he is just asking but IMHO he really wants to buy a bigger better property that he doesn't actually need. Peoples wants and needs are completely different.

Zamboni

Just catching up with this story now.
It is a massive two fingers to the prudent tax payer who sat back from the celtic savage property rush.
Despite making a conscious decision to stay out of the market we now must pay for the losses of the banks and the bail outs of individuals who made life financial decisions without the adequate knowledge or research.
This society does not value informed decision, prudence or effort and it rewards incompetence, poor mathematical ability and irrational decision making.

Bannasidhe

odds_on wrote: »

Part of the problem was that people wanted as much as they could get to buy a house that was often bigger and better than they actually needed - a status symbol.
And today there is the exact same problem - just looking at other threads in Accommodation & Property today, where someone is asking
How much of Net Income should you pay towards Mortgage.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056615900

Ok, he is just asking but IMHO he really wants to buy a bigger better property that he doesn't actually need. Peoples wants and needs are completely different.

I agree completely. I remember when my sister remortgaged to pay for an extension she didn't need- she just had to have a wet room with a multi-jet shower, a bathroom with a jacuzzi, 2 ensuites plus two separate toilets - making 4 in the house. There's only herself and her husband - how many toilets do 2 people need in a suburban semi detached???
I nearly had a stroke when I heard that the tiles for the wet room cost 14 grand - wtf??? Do they wake you in the morning with a cooked breakfast and do the ironing while you are out at work???
When exactly did we all begin to need our own personal jax?

coup1917

The deal this woman has received seems to good to be true. There is obviously s lot more to it but the issue i have is that she borrowed on the back of a 70k salary. Then she decided to move to a job paying 50k as it was something she had always wanted to work at. Taking a job with a lesser salary when you are a single income paying a mortgage was naive. We would all like to move into our dream job but its not always possible, even for a joint income household paying a mortgage.

With property supplements falling out of our daily papers and stories of property prices in certain parts on the rise, news of this type of deal are really leading to a disjointed economy for years to come.

Lantus

Solair wrote: »

Yeah, but it's a bit like the difference between a weather forecast done by a professional meteorologist using all the best tools available and some guy in the pub going "Woohoo! It's going to be sunny forever - I'm burning all my winter clothes and investing in shorts and suncream!"

Personally, I'd go for the high-tech meteorologist with their computer models, satellites, forecasting technology than the lad down the back of the pub.

The Irish banks seem to have very much in the "woohooo!" school of economic modelling.

If you look at the the history of modern banking, the Irish banks' collapse is right up there with the very worst economic melt downs and it's entirely down to lack of ability to assess risk and forecast market trends.

The main role of a bank is risk assessment. If that system goes horribly wrong, then your organisation will not be in banking for very long! That's why we no longer have any normally functioning banks in Ireland.

We'd love to think that banks assess the future long term but in reality they are a business and any business tends to base it's future on the last quarter only. If the LQ was good they get bouyant and invest and spend.

It's maddness really but for most businesses the money going into the till day to day is the only measure they have.

That said ALL economies move in cycles, boom, bust and so on. After sudden screaching up periods there are always corresponding down periods. You would think that someone somewhere in even just one bank would of known that. But you get too many new age managers talking up the 'we are different' and this whole 'soft landing' thing that we seemed to swallow. If anyone had bothered to look it up you'd see (according to wiki) that there isn't one example of it happening anywhere. Not a good sign. Yet the 'herd' repeated it until they all believed it.

Almost willing it to happen. Life doesn't work like that though.....

SO, I would blame in this order, banks and politicians equally at about 40% each for shameless greed, reckless spending, lack of regulation and believe in infinite growth as if this country had discovered a never ending seam of gold we could all tap into for ever. The people (us) must also take some responsibility at around 20% for swallowing the rubbish the banks and politicians put out and not stopping to think for ourselves. For many of us there was much greed and profiteering to be had and we enjoyed it far too much.

If we want to change ireland for the better the first person to change must be ourselve's.

the groutch

nobody should get this kind of debt forgiveness if they are still in full-time employment, END OF!

Rabidlamb

Looks as those who emigrated while leaving mortgage debt haven't much to worry about.
I remember people touting in here how the banks would chase you to Austrailia for any shortfall.
How they'd have agents waiting at the airport for when you'd show up.
A woman moves to Galway & they let her off €150k.

Gandhi

Seems to me that she got the forgiveness because the bank sold the property for such a low value. The article says her lawyer argued that the bank repossessed, and then let the house sit for too long while prices were dropping. I think the details of that court case should be a central part of this story and the original article only spent a sentence or two on it.

Plus, she spent tens of thousands on this house, and will be forced to spend thousands more, having already lost the whole thing. It is not like she got a free house out of it.

Zamboni

Zamboni wrote: »

Just catching up with this story now.
It is a massive two fingers to the prudent tax payer who sat back from the celtic savage property rush.
Despite making a conscious decision to stay out of the market we now must pay for the losses of the banks and the bail outs of individuals who made life financial decisions without the adequate knowledge or research.
This society does not value informed decision, prudence or effort and it rewards incompetence, poor mathematical ability and irrational decision making.

Let's not forget the prudent tax payers who also are still paying their mortgages and getting on with things despite the negative equity, not all homeowners who bought during the boom jacked in their €70k/annum job because they fancied moving to the West.

99% of people who bought in the boom haven't been bailed out so let's not get carried away

riclad

Germany ,france never had a boom bust in housing,
because they have a proper banking regulatory system.
WHEN i saw houses in rough areas ,council estates going for 220k ,i knew we were going for a housing price crash.
Central bank,regulator ,debt of finance were not doing their job, since they are civil servants they will still retire on nice big pensions.
I wonder will other single people ask for the same deal as that nurse.
She gets off just paying 20k,without even going thru bankruptcy process.
Many single people bought apartments for 200k, now worth 100k.
And in a few years, she can buy a nice house in the west ,much cheaper than dublin .

The banking industry was run for the benefit of bankers, builders, developers.crony capitalism and the taxpayer is left with the bill to rescue the banks.

monkeybutter

You'd have to admire her though. While the rest of us bend over to take our medicine, she's off scot free, enjoying the sunsets in connemara no doubt.

Is she smart and we are thick?

If the rest of you piggys don't get it, there's only so much in the feeding trough, and you don't want to go hungry now do ya. To be paddy last yet again? Like 2007, climbing over each other for the last scrap.

If you are underwater with your mortage, if it makes financial sense, then walk away, it's not painless, it will cost you, but you owe it to yourself. People say you should treat buying a house as a business decision, now is your chance.

Galwayguy35

Just saw a clip of this on the late news. She got off the hook and was whinging that she wouldn't be able to get a mortgage. I don't see why there should be any debt forgivness, people need to take responsibility for their own actions, noone forced them to take out loans and those of us who used our heads and calcuated what we would actually be able to pay back and borrowed accordingly won't get any such write down of debts.

Pkiernan

I lost €22,000 investing in the Dot.com boom and bust in 2001-2003.

I demand that the taxpayer reimburse me.

Just like we're footing the bill for this irresponsible nurse.

Galwayguy35

Pkiernan wrote: »

I lost €22,000 investing in the Dot.com boom and bust in 2001-2003.

I demand that the taxpayer reimburse me.

Just like we're footing the bill for this irresponsible nurse.

We are.

ted1

I decided to rent during the boom as I knew that everything wE overvalued. Do you think I'll get money back. I have serious problems with tax money being used to bail out bad investments. The funny thing is i'm an engineer and all my friends who are bankers and accoutants told me I was not buying. As my daughter says silly you.

clarsax

Facts in this case are misleading. The crux is she handed back the keys and surrendered the property years before the bank sold it. Yes she was naive and irresponsible but she thought it was the end of it. If the bank had sold it promptly then the deficit would have been far less, possibly nil

Snakeblood

clarsax wrote: »

Facts in this case are misleading. The crux is she handed back the keys and surrendered the property years before the bank sold it. Yes she was naive and irresponsible but she thought it was the end of it. If the bank had sold it promptly then the deficit would have been far less, possibly nil

Naive and irresponsible isn't an excuse though. If I tell someone I don't think I'm paying my debts, and think that's the end of it, they're still my debts, and my responsibility to repay them. Jingle mail works in the states, not here.

xoxyx

clarsax wrote: »

Facts in this case are misleading. The crux is she handed back the keys and surrendered the property years before the bank sold it. Yes she was naive and irresponsible but she thought it was the end of it. If the bank had sold it promptly then the deficit would have been far less, possibly nil

So, what. Did she bury her head in the sand and think everything would be taken care of? A reasonable person would have followed what the bank was doing in order to protect their interests. Totally irresponsible IYAM.

Gurgle wrote: »

Something smells a bit off here:


If she borrowed €245k and never made a repayment, then the house was sold for €75k? That's pretty damn cheap, even for Coolock in a recession.

Sorry if this has already been addressed, but I skimmed the thread and didn't see an answer. That was my first question - why was there such a downfall between €245,000 and €75,000?

daenerysstormborn3

Steven81 wrote: »

Think she did quite well, havent read all pages but the amount she has to repay is of a small amount, repaying between 50-60 euros a week as a nurse if she is still employed as this wont make her poor but i can only think they looked at her circumstances and that is all she can afford.

As for slating nurses they are the ones on the front line, work unsociable hours ( Nights, weekends, christmas) and have to deal with a lot, if you are in a hospital this is seen and think they deserve everything they earn.

They chose the profession knowing the conditions of the job, this does not give them free reign to whinge and moan about it. And having just come out of hospital after being involved in an RTA, i'm afraid the majority of nurses i dealt with do not deserve their large pay packets and job security. I dealt with one nurse who was a shining example of the profession.

Anyway that's OT.

This woman does not deserve debt forgiveness and i don't think it should be introduced in this country at all. What about the people who have struggled and gave up every luxury to ensure they could meet their mortgage repayments? Is their struggle less so just because they put their mortgage repayments as their top priority? Sure why doesn't everyone just stop paying and then nobody will have to deal with their debts? That's the kind of attitude this precedent is going to set.

golden lane

the country is in a terrible mess.........some are rewarded, some are punished........i think there needs to be a complete overhaul of the banking system.........and then a complete overhaul of the public employment renumeration.........

ireland is becoming a mafia type state........

indiewindy

golden lane wrote: »

the country is in a terrible mess.........some are rewarded, some are punished........i think there needs to be a complete overhaul of the banking system.........and then a complete overhaul of the public employment renumeration.........

ireland is becoming a mafia type state........

There are so many things still wrong in this country
the effective rewarding of failure like the nurse who is the source of this thread
new beginnings: a vested interest
The landlords in killeney with a substantial property portfolio getting misplace sympathy when they tried to play the old eviction card
ps wages too high
sw to high
vested interested getting free reign to sout their nonsense economic policies on the airwaves
This country is run for the benefit of a small minority, not the vast majority of people who live prudently:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

golden lane

indiewindy wrote: »

There are so many things still wrong in this country
the effective rewarding of failure like the nurse who is the source of this thread
new beginnings: a vested interest
The landlords in killeney with a substantial property portfolio getting misplace sympathy when they tried to play the old eviction card
ps wages too high
sw to high
vested interested getting free reign to sout their nonsense economic policies on the airwaves
This country is run for the benefit of a small minority, not the vast majority of people who live prudently:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

exactly.......mafia style

How Strange

She was on morning Ireland yesterday and said there was great mercy in this country at the moment whatever that means. I suppose for her it means she walks away from her obligations. She said she was all for paying her debts .... and yet she got her debt reduced to 18k by engaging new beginnings. They can expect lots of calls from people in negative equity. Oh and she'd prayed to god and left it in his hands to sort out .... so BoI and New Beginnings were really doing gods work.

It's a pity we're atheists so we just keep paying a mortgage on a 2 bed apt in huge negative equity.

JuliusCaesar

Can't see what everyone is getting so excited about, as most of you don't seem to have read the basis of her case, which isn't applicable to most people in negative equity.

Her legal team argued that the house should have been sold more quickly before the property market plunged.

clarsax wrote: »

The crux is she handed back the keys and surrendered the property years before the bank sold it. Yes she was naive and irresponsible but she thought it was the end of it. If the bank had sold it promptly then the deficit would have been far less, possibly nil

The bank mishandled her case, and could have covered the mortgage outstanding if they had sold the house promptly.

Yet another example of banks not managing themselves properly.

You can be irate at the bank, not the nurse.