Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

The retention of '6 counties' by Britain in 1921

Options
13»

Comments

  • Options
    #62
    MarchDub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭MarchDub


    @whitelines - This is a History forum.

    If you are not used to the nature and method of historiographical discussion than maybe that is why you are doing your own reading into 'some' of the posts and absolutely explains - to me anyway - your 'bafflement'.


  • Options
    #63
    HamletOrHecuba
    Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭HamletOrHecuba


    whitelines wrote: »
    The passion with which some address the issue of anti-nationalist discrimination on this thread baffles me. Of course NI was a cold house for nationalism, in the same way in which The Free State/ROI was a cold house for pro-British elements.

    For the record Im partly Ulster British myself and believe partition was just, however will explain to me just how the Irish Free State was a cold house to pro-British elements and what exactly you mean by a cold house?


  • Options
    #64
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    HamletOrHecuba wrote: »
    If anything it could be argued that the Free State and the ROI after it bent over backwards to the Protestant minority who in return have shown absolutely no gratitude. Even though they get a special grant to send their kids to their own schools for instance the Church of Ireland forbids the flying of the Irish tricolour on its property.

    Where in earth did you get that rubbish from?


  • Options
    #65
    HamletOrHecuba
    Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭HamletOrHecuba


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Where in earth did you get that rubbish from?

    Which bit are you referring to as rubbish?

    Protestants are entitled to a special grant to enable them to send their children to Protestant schools.

    The Church of Ireland bans the Irish Tricolour from its grounds and always has, though it made an attempt to ban the Union Jack from them as well a few years back in order to appear less politically biased which of course failed miserably.

    Those are facts- sadly. Obviously you dont have any Protestants in your family?


  • Options
    #66
    jonniebgood1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Where in earth did you get that rubbish from?

    More diplomacy required Fred in future.
    HamletOrHecuba wrote: »
    Protestants are entitled to a special grant to enable them to send their children to Protestant schools.

    The Church of Ireland bans the Irish Tricolour from its grounds and always has, though it made an attempt to ban the Union Jack from them as well a few years back in order to appear less politically biased which of course failed miserably.

    Those are facts- sadly. Obviously you dont have any Protestants in your family?

    I think what Fred meant was do you have a source for your information on a CoI ban on the tricolour. I thought it was preference expressed for a flag that could be flown across the 32 counties on certain days without causing controversy. I thought a tricolour or union jack were flown depending on the choice of paritioners.

    In any case we are well off the topic at this stage so we should return to it. Was the retention of NI a saving face exercise?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #67
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

    The Church of Ireland bans the Irish Tricolour from its grounds and always has, .......

    You may want to inform the relevant authorities....
    http://cache.virtualtourist.com/15/4730498-St_Patricks_Cathedral_Dublin.jpg
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mV6f63Extb8/TlunUwENr_I/AAAAAAAAAGQ/p6O2IV8ZiU0/s1600/dublin+day+one+089.JPG

    I trust you've a source for this claim re the ban?


  • Options
    #68
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Nodin wrote: »
    You may want to inform the relevant authorities....
    http://cache.virtualtourist.com/15/4730498-St_Patricks_Cathedral_Dublin.jpg
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mV6f63Extb8/TlunUwENr_I/AAAAAAAAAGQ/p6O2IV8ZiU0/s1600/dublin+day+one+089.JPG

    I trust you've a source for this claim re the ban?

    I'm more interested in finding out where I claim my grant for the "Special" schools.


  • Options
    #69
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    I'm more interested in finding out where I claim my grant for the "Special" schools.

    I'm open to correction, but I believe that fees in private protestant schools are/were subsidised by the state as they were the only alternative to "state" schools which were of course run by the catholic church. It's thus hardly that generous a move, as its a result of the failure to provide a neutral secular school system.


  • Options
    #70
    MarchDub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭MarchDub


    Thread has gone way off topic -


  • Options
    #71
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    MarchDub wrote: »
    Thread has gone way off topic -

    Has it? Maybe it demonstrates why "protestants" didn't want to join the Irish republic.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #72
    jonniebgood1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Has it? Maybe it demonstrates why "protestants" didn't want to join the Irish republic.

    I see this as deliberate goading, or trolling. Whichever you prefer.
    It earns you an infraction and a warning against repeating the offence.
    There is no need for a response in thread to this from other users- if there is a response then further infractions may follow.
    The thread is way off topic- the tricolour ban on CoI grounds was not substantiated so should be left at that as it is off topic.

    moderator.


  • Options
    #73
    conor.hogan.2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,246 ✭✭✭conor.hogan.2


    The border was thought out very well. 9 counties would have been subsumed already whereas 6 is more "stable" and 4 while "more concentrated" would have been way to small to keep.


  • Options
    #74
    TaosHum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,746 ✭✭✭TaosHum


    With regards to Irish Home Rule, my question is (and this is going down the speculative route) would it have been better for Ireland as a hole if the 1914 Home Rule Bill had of been implemented? (I'm aware of the reasons as to why it lost support/was not ratified but asking "what if")

    What I mean is, with Ireland being completely governed by a Parliament in Dublin, but still a dominion of the British Empire, my guess would be that Ireland would have eventually gotten complete independence later on and thus would (probably) not have needed to give up the 6 counties.

    I'm basing this on that the 1914 HR Bill would have set a precedence of Dublin controlling all of Ireland affairs, including Ulster. Thus it would have been difficult to take that away when Ireland would eventually seek for complete independence.

    Would a slow and steady approach like Home Rule have led to greater rewards, rather than going for the jugular between 1918-1920?


  • Options
    #75
    Dr.Nightdub
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭Dr.Nightdub


    The 1914 Bill specified that Ulster (defined as 6 counties, after both 4- and 9-county options had been looked at) was to be excluded.


  • Options
    #76
    TaosHum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,746 ✭✭✭TaosHum


    Dr.Nightdub wrote: »
    The 1914 Bill specified that Ulster (defined as 6 counties, after both 4- and 9-county options had been looked at) was to be excluded.

    Well that ends that so :pac:. I was thinking of when it was originally drawn up in 1912, but changed due to Ulster opposition.

    My question then is, could any scenario at the beginning of the 20th century had led to an all Ireland government? Or was it always going to play out like it has due to Ulster/Conservative opposition?


  • Options
    #77
    jonniebgood1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    TaosHum wrote: »
    Well that ends that so :pac:. I was thinking of when it was originally drawn up in 1912, but changed due to Ulster opposition.

    My question then is, could any scenario at the beginning of the 20th century had led to an all Ireland government? Or was it always going to play out like it has due to Ulster/Conservative opposition?

    Partition was just one of a line of issues that had been used by Unionist leaders as a tool against home rule. It had been around before 1912-14, refer to posts no 23-27 of this thread.


Advertisement