Do Barca need to tweek their style?

parc

So it's not an "are barca finished thread" :pac: but I thought they looked limited with 10 men in front of them last night, and weak at the back over 2 legs.

Do barca need to tweek their team for times like this when they seem a bit tired, like say bring in a vidic/ferdinand type partnership in defense. A Ferdinand type player who is very tall and strong and can play the ball nicely on the ground and a Vidic type player whos an absolute dominater. I think the barca philosophy can fail quite badly when the team is not at around 80% of their potential. Anything under that and they buckle at the back.


It was almost like they needed to let chelsea counter attack, so they could get the ball back and counter that, just to get a bit of space. But when chelsea went forward they would inevitably score.

Neil3030

They just need a striker who isn't crocked. Chelsea could put 3 or 4 players on Messi because they'd no real other forward threat to cope with.

Sgt Pepper 64

parc wrote: »

So it's not an "are barca finished thread" :pac: but I thought they looked limited with 10 men in front of them last night, and weak at the back over 2 legs.

Do barca need to tweek their team for times like this when they seem a bit tired, like say bring in a vidic/ferdinand type partnership in defense. A Ferdinand type player who is very tall and strong and can play the ball nicely on the ground and a Vidic type player whos an absolute dominater. I think the barca philosophy can fail quite badly when the team is not at around 80% of their potential. Anything under that and they buckle at the back.


It was almost like they needed to let chelsea counter attack, so they could get the ball back and counter that, just to get a bit of space. But when chelsea went forward they would inevitably score.

You beat me to it, but I was amazed to see this

Barcelona's style defended by Pep Guardiola after Chelsea defeat



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17836889

Thats just crazy isnt it? Barca having to defend their style?!

TaosHum

I think they need a plan B, rather than tweek their style. They created many a crossing opportunity (especially in the 2nd half) but without an aerial threat, they would pass it back and try create through the middle.

You have to admire the way they play and their commitment to it, but maybe a change of emphasis when they are struggling might be what is needed when trying to break down a stubborn opponent.

mike65

They need a big man up front, Liverpool would like to interest them in one.

parc

Neil3030 wrote: »

They just need a striker who isn't crocked. Chelsea could put 3 or 4 players on Messi because they'd no real other forward threat to cope with.

Yeah that's true all right.

I'm definitely not asking questions of their style. Just think if I were them I would want a couple of tall solid centrebacks who can play the ball.

Redzer7

I don't think they need to tweek their style as much as everyone, having a plan B will only benefit them though.
Some of the chances they didn't take last night and the chances they created at the Stamford Bridge are usually finished every other team, I can never recall seeing a Barcelona side creating so many clear cut chances and not finishing their opponents off. They really do need a clinical striker who will remain fit.

they need a plan B, and are a bit like Arsenal when met with tough tactics.

leggit

I just thought they were unlucky, missed penalty, hit the woodwork a couple of times, just wasn't their day.

Another day they could have put 3-4 past chelsea

Blatter

Why would they need to change their style?

They created more than enough chances over the two legs to win the tie, hit the woodwork 3 times in open play (Alexis, Pedro, Messi), hitting it again for the missed penalty, Busquets and Cesc missing chances from 7 yards out in the first leg, Cesc dink cleared off the line in first leg, Messi missing a one on one early on in the second leg.

They just weren't clinical enough over the two legs, nothing to do with style.

carlop

Plan B could well have been Pique up top, much like Inter two years ago (which worked). Obviously though that went out the window.

I don't think they should panic buy Andy Carrol just yet, but it may be worth looking at La Masia and seeing is their any player they can try and mould into a more physical centre-forward.

Let's not underestimate how big a loss Villa has been either.

plasmaguy

Not sure.

I think they were desperately unlucky over both legs.

They were far far the superior side in both games.

Both Chelsea goals in the Nou Camp and also the goal at Stamford Bridge came against the run of play and were counter attacks.

You sometimes get that in football, one team all over the other but can't put the ball in the net.

But for Cech and the woodwork, Barca would be in the final.

Chelsea were lucky.

johnners2981

They need a new keeper, he could of easily saved Drogbas goal if he dived for it instead going for it with his feet.

He doesn't get tested that much cause Barcelona always have 70%+ possession but when he does he gives sloppy goals away which has cost Barcelona this season

PhlegmyMoses

Too early to say but I do think that they need to broaden their player base and rotate a bit more. I know they've introduced a few new players this year but Messi. No need for him Messi etc to be playing 50+ every season. They should have enough to beat a lot of the lesser teams.

Predalien

I don't think so, I'd be of the opinion that they can be boring to watch but that doesn't mean I don't recognise their brilliance, every team will lose games, football involves a lot of luck on occasion and during the two legs against Chelsea luck completely deserted Barca.

Other teams have recognised that there is a way to beat them, but the tactics employed by Chelsea will only work now and again. The way Barca play works most of the time, and will continue to work, it is the best possible system for the quality of players they have.

They were unlucky as well that Messi's form has dipped slightly but that happens to every player, in the last three games they have been unlucky twice and were undone by the best tactical manager in the game with the most expensive team in the world in the other game, that's no disaster, it's just a blip.

Predalien

Predalien wrote: »

Other teams have recognised that there is a way to beat them, but the tactics employed by Chelsea will only work now and again. .

Well thats better than not now, and not again.
Teams who play attacking football against Barca, never win.(RM are the exception, best team & manager etc)

Gbear

They're exhausted, the squad is too shallow and they somewhat lack for a dedicated goalscorer to take the pressure of Messi. Nothing wrong with the style.

They missed about 5 or 6 sitters against Chelsea. No tweaking of their style needed to remedy that.

CSF

Villa coming back will change everything

Dempsey

Lacking a natural striker and not enough squad rotation during the season cost them at the business end of the season.

stovelid

It's clear that not winning everything this year is unacceptable and needs to be addressed as soon as possible.

tolosenc

The big question now is whether Barcelona will sack Michel Platini.

That_Guy

They're really missing Villa I think. It's admirable that they continued to play their passing game but with 10 minutes to go last night, they should've tried a few more shots from outside the box. Chelsea frustrated them and they couldn't break them down.

Doesn't look like there's a plan b there to me.

Injuries haven't helped really but the players they have in reserve are more than capable of filling the boots.

SlickRic

no they don't.

they just need another striker who can score regularly. Villa has been a bigger loss than many will think; as has Pedro's injury. both those players' form over the last couple of seasons have been massive.

if Sanchez could stay fit long enough, he'd make a difference too.

Llorente would be perfect for them if they do want a plan B who can still 100% mesh with the teams general style of play.

klose

Missing villa a lot alright, they don't really have an out and out cf atm but it hasent really been a problem till now imo.

Only seen the 2nd half but that chucero or however ya spell it the guy down the left was pretty pants.

Blatter

I don't see what huge difference Villa makes to them. He'd contribute alright, but I wouldn't say they have missed him hugely. He didn't even play as a focal point for them, he was shunted out to the left and was not nearly as prolific as he was at Valencia and the national side.

He's a factor, but not a major one. There's a few others like trying to accommodate Cesc into the team and playing 3-4-3, Pedro being woefully out of form, Xavi not being himself, Iniesta out of form, Abidal out (their best defender this season), Pique out of form all season.

Villa? No, not a major factor. Alexis has been individually better than Villa ever was for Barca, and better for the team too.

Sappy404

This thread has 20 views, 19 replies. Seems everyone's got an opinion.

Mine is that they need a plan B, both in midifeld and up front.

Warper

Blatter wrote: »

Why would they need to change their style?

They created more than enough chances over the two legs to win the tie, hit the woodwork 3 times in open play (Alexis, Pedro, Messi), hitting it again for the missed penalty, Busquets and Cesc missing chances from 7 yards out in the first leg, Cesc dink cleared off the line in first leg, Messi missing a one on one early on in the second leg.

They just weren't clinical enough over the two legs, nothing to do with style.

I think this is the first time I agree with you.

Lets hope Barca never change their style as that is what makes them unique. Fcuk the Plan B. Stay loyal to what you are. Granted at times they can be frustrating and they are thoroughly predictable but i hope they never change. They rely on technique, not strength and in todays world where the emphasis is on bulked up muscle heads they are a joy.

theteal

johnners2981 wrote: »

They need a new keeper, he could of easily saved Drogbas goal if he dived for it instead going for it with his feet.

He doesn't get tested that much cause Barcelona always have 70%+ possession but when he does he gives sloppy goals away which has cost Barcelona this season

this actually came up in conversation last night. Valdes is poor and has been for as long as I can remember - in the last week alone, he could/should have saved drogba's had he dived properly for it. he also made an arse of himself by coming out for no reason providing ronaldo with basically an open goal to tap into at the weekend.

as for changing style, nope. as has been said, they just need to take their chances, on form they would have scored 4-6 goals over the 2 legs from the chances they created. i will concede that they are looking a bit tired coming to the end of a long season.

as an aside: one of the lads threw Given's name in as a potential replacement for a bit of a joke. no joke in my eyes, a very solid keeper that they could have gotten for a couple of million - the only obstacle would be a lack of speaking spanish/catalan (need a communicator in goal)

leggit

SlickRic wrote: »

no they don't.

they just need another striker who can score regularly. Villa has been a bigger loss than many will think; as has Pedro's injury. both those players' form over the last couple of seasons have been massive.

if Sanchez could stay fit long enough, he'd make a difference too.

Llorente would be perfect for them if they do want a plan B who can still 100% mesh with the teams general style of play.

Llorente would be a perfect signing for them, would give them much more attacking options.

Morzadec

I would echo what most say in here about a lack of a striker. Sanchez and Fabregas are probably their biggest goal-threats outside of Messi and they're not really goalscorers.

Villa was in the top 5 scorers last season in La Liga. This year Sanchez is the highest (bar Messi of course) in 9th place.

Compare that with Real Madrid who have Higuain and Benzema in 4th and 5th place respectively.

Villa's loss has been very important imo. Barca need to get him back fit and firing or buy another CF

Valdes did one good thing last night though, knocking Pique out.

Vudgie

A footballing centre back like Agger would suit them down to the ground...though I hope I haven't tempted fate.

Their current crop of youngsters look relatively ordinary though they could also develop in 2 - 3 years to be world beaters.

Barca need 2 - 3 players and they will be bullet proof again. I think they should look outside the marquee players this summer and they may find the answer to their issues.

Amirani

theteal wrote: »

as an aside: one of the lads threw Given's name in as a potential replacement for a bit of a joke. no joke in my eyes, a very solid keeper that they could have gotten for a couple of million - the only obstacle would be a lack of speaking spanish/catalan (need a communicator in goal)

It is a joke. Given is completely overrated by so many Irish people. He's very limited in many areas. Why do you think he's never played for a team that's been in contention to win things?

dfx-

They don't need to tweak their style, it works, it creates the chances against packed defence and all others. If you don't take them like in the semifinal, you don't take them.

They need a finisher, they have a footballing centre-half in Pique but he has disintegrated mentally this season. They also need to pick between Xavi or Fabregas, not both as Fabregas too often gets in the way. Get Iniesta off the left wing and keep Villa from the transfer rumours abound earlier in the season.

Llorente would be a must though.

Samich

It's Barca style that the Chelsea players camped in their penalty area. Was crazy, even when the CHelsea 2nd went in the Barca players from kick off dribbled the ball straight to the edge of the area. No other team ever has made a team defend like this.

cgpg5

NiallSparky wrote: »

It is a joke. Given is completely overrated by so many Irish people. He's very limited in many areas. Why do you think he's never played for a team that's been in contention to win things?

Given overrated? You are either clueless or writing this with the intention of winding people up. I'll just ask though, in what areas is he limited?

Never in contention to win things? Sure Newcastle only made two FA cup final appearances when he played. Were also in the top 4 teams in England at the beginning of the noughties with Robson at the helm.

He also won an FA cup with City. He was definitely one of the best and most consistent keepers to play in the PL of that there is little doubt

Flincher

I think they are getting caught out occasionally having a defensive midfielder at centre back. Maybe having CB who can pass instead of a midfielder who can defend might prevent the occasional crucial goal.

Agger or Vermaelen (or Lucio if he was a few years younger) might have been a better fit than Mascherano

Amirani

cgpg5 wrote: »

Given overrated? You are either clueless or writing this with the intention of winding people up. I'll just ask though, in what areas is he limited?

Never in contention to win things? Sure Newcastle only made two FA cup final appearances when he played. Were also in the top 4 teams in England at the beginning of the noughties with Robson at the helm.

He also won an FA cup with City. He was definitely one of the best and most consistent keepers to play in the PL of that there is little doubt

His command of his area is poor and he's notoriously slow off his line. You've proved my point with the rest of the post - who the hell cares about FA Cup final appearances? A feat achieved in recent years by teams like Millwall, Portsmouth and Cardiff.

Coming top 4 in the early noughties wasn't exactly a spectacular achievement either. Nicky Butt was a prominent member of that Newcastle team sure. If Given was as good as people seem to think then he would've played for World Class teams, won trophies and not be automatically relegated to the bench in favour of Joe Hart. It's deluded to think he's good enough for Barca.

cgpg5

NiallSparky wrote: »

His command of his area is poor and he's notoriously slow off his line. You've proved my point with the rest of the post - who the hell cares about FA Cup final appearances? A feat achieved in recent years by teams like Millwall, Portsmouth and Cardiff.

Coming top 4 in the early noughties wasn't exactly a spectacular achievement either. Nicky Butt was a prominent member of that Newcastle team sure. If Given was as good as people seem to think then he would've played for World Class teams, won trophies and not be automatically relegated to the bench in favour of Joe Hart. It's deluded to think he's good enough for Barca.

First bold- couldn't be more untrue.

Second- you categorically referred to the fact that he never played for a team close to winning anything. Is an FA cup not something?

Third- Nicky Butt played for United in that period. He also played for England though and had a great WC 2002 so why would it be a bad thing if he was in that team?

Fourth- he is far better than Valdez could ever dream of being so then why couldn't he be deemed good enough for Barca?

I'll just assume though you're not being serious so I'll leave it at that

cgpg5

NiallSparky wrote: »

His command of his area is poor and he's notoriously slow off his line. You've proved my point with the rest of the post - who the hell cares about FA Cup final appearances? A feat achieved in recent years by teams like Millwall, Portsmouth and Cardiff.

Coming top 4 in the early noughties wasn't exactly a spectacular achievement either. Nicky Butt was a prominent member of that Newcastle team sure. If Given was as good as people seem to think then he would've played for World Class teams, won trophies and not be automatically relegated to the bench in favour of Joe Hart. It's deluded to think he's good enough for Barca.

Shearer was ok though wasn't he?

dfx-

More than anything they need a pre-season and not the Harlem-Globetrotters nonsense of last season.

Amirani

cgpg5 wrote: »

First bold- couldn't be more untrue.

Second- you categorically referred to the fact that he never played for a team close to winning anything. Is an FA cup not something?

Third- Nicky Butt played for United in that period. He also played for England though and had a great WC 2002 so why would it be a bad thing if he was in that team?

Fourth- he is far better than Valdez could ever dream of being so then why couldn't he be deemed good enough for Barca?

I'll just assume though you're not being serious so I'll leave it at that

No, I don't consider getting to an FA cup final or even winning an FA cup as a particularly amazing achievement. Look at the teams who've done it in the past few years.

Just making the point that Newcastle weren't a world class side during the period in which they managed a top 4 finish twice. They weren't close to winning the league either year or thereafter.

I don't consider Valdes to be world class either and would say that he isn't good enough for Barca. Just because Shay is better than him doesn't mean he's good enough to play for the best team in the world either. They could and should do better than both, even if Valdes is a catalan.

Amirani

cgpg5 wrote: »

Shearer was ok though wasn't he?

Shearer won a Premier League title. Set a record transfer fee and scored a hell of a lot of goals. Says more about him as an individual than the teams he played for.

chillian17

Article: Where did it all go wrong for Barcelona?

eagle eye

A few things I've thought this season when watching Barca.

Most notably is how many players were not fully fit. The most important one is Xavi who seems to be struggling with fitness a lot of late. Pique has been out for half the season. A player who has only recently being getting the plaudits he deserves is Eric Abidal, he really balanced up their defense and they are not the same at the back without him. You just can't lose two players of that class at the back and not be hugely affected by it.

Other things I've noticed. Cesc Fabregas is a wonderful player in his own right but I always get the feeling when he plays that he just doesn't blend in and everything seems a little cluttered in midfield. Its taking away from the team too imo because Iniesta is put out on the left side of midfield a lot when he is in the team. When you don't have Iniesta in the middle I feel that teams have more chance to break because Iniesta is the quickest one to react and pressure when Barca lose possession. He doesn't always win the ball back but he is responsible quite a lot for making the player he pressures make the mistake which leads to them losing possession. I don't think Xavi is as affective when Cesc is in the team either.

Up front Villa has been a big loss. Alexis Sanchez' form has been in and out. I think he will be much better next year when Villa returns.

ricero

they should sign loriente of bilbao and they would be sorted

Smegball

There was one man they were missing to come off the bench for games like last night when they desperately need someone who can shoot from outside the box.

That man is...

Darron Gibson

:pac:

G.K.

Valdes is there because he can play with his feet.

theteal

G.K. wrote: »

Valdes is there because he can play with his feet.

it's a shame he can't play with a football though :pac:

Nailz

What people don't realise is that if Valdez did dive for Drogba's goal he would have been too late getting down to it; he was on his heels, which is also why he went with his feet. It's never a good sign when a keeper gets caught on their heels but it happens to most keepers every so often, he's not an excellent goalie but he's not bad, he's improved vastly over the last 6 years or so.

But I do think they need to get rid of the elitist attitube and incorporate a 'plan B' into their side - not every team "caves" to their pressure like a few teams have shown this season. And they need stronger players throughout their side other than Pique and Puyol at the back, who can also be prone to the odd injury.

sh__93

It was clearly difficult to pass through the Chelsea defence so they needed someone they could cross the ball to last night. Dare i say someone like Ibrahimovic. :pac: