HOW MANY MILES TO BABYLON (DISCUSSION THREAD)

Inimitable

Hey lads I wanted to set up this thread as I think 'How Many Miles To Babylon' deserves its own discussion thread....

If you're doing Ordinary level English 'most likely' you are doing "HMMTB" as the Single Text or Comparative....

It would be good if people could discuss the novel in any way they wish such as key moments, themes, images, main charachters sexuality perhaps?

There is alot to this novel and I find it very interesting but it seems every person I talk to about it has their very own view on the events that take place within the novel so DISCUSS TO YOUR HEARTS CONTENT!

Coeurdepirate

I'm doing it for part of my HL comparative... And I haven't even read it

Killian In The Name Of

Have you gotten notes on the theme of the characters' sexuality? Because I always felt there was this light undertone of erotica, even though Jennifer Johnston says that is definitely not the case (as far as I know)?

We've never been given anything of the sort, we just specified in the relationship between two male characters in relation to the Key Moments through the text.

Hayezer

Killian In The Name Of wrote: »

Have you gotten notes on the theme of the characters' sexuality? Because I always felt there was this light undertone of erotica, even though Jennifer Johnston says that is definitely not the case (as far as I know)?

We've never been given anything of the sort, we just specified in the relationship between two male characters in relation to the Key Moments through the text.

We haven't gotten notes on their sexuality either, just for the theme of friendship that friendships can lead to feelings of great affection and platonic,non-sexual love or something. We sorta discussed in class if they were gay but that was just for a bit of a laugh really :L

Inimitable

I phrased it wrong haha We speculated as to whethere or not they had any real form of a sexual relationship. My teacher analysed the relationship between Jerry & Alec in great detail as it forms the basis of almost every question asked and we 'lightly' discussed the whole homosexuality theme but never took any notes or mentioned it in an exam focused way.

I think that if you are doing ordinary level English and you want to achieve a high grade in paper 2 in particular then you should really go out and buy the Key Notes mentor book.. I have it and it really halves the workload and I know of a school that the teacher ordered the book for the whole class and it is really effective for notes and revision.

I have been studying "How Many Miles To Babylon" as my single text for the past 3 months and I think it is a really easy novel to get a grasp of in contrast to shakesperean plays such as Macbeth and Hamlet.

My teacher continiously tells me that it was a grave mistake for me to have done Ordinary as I was capable of getting on brilliantly in the Higher level paper :mad::mad::mad:

Gumbi

I believe one is looking far too much into it if one were to believe that there is a sexual undertone as part of their relationship. Way too much.

spurious

Very close platonic relationships were and still are very common among soldiers and people in stressful situations generally.

It is possible for a man to love another man without it being sexual.

Inimitable

Yes, but it is thought by some to be a detail that Jennifer Johnston ( the author) left for the reader to decide for themselves.... it is natural to speculate whether or not there is actual evidence of such accusations within the text but from thorough reading you will find no evidence of this matter.

I believe that they were both 'loners' and they were each others only friend and they relied on each other through thick and thin which inturn really developed a close bond between them which may have given off the homosexual vibe....

Gumbi

Inimitable wrote: »

Yes, but it is thought by some to be a detail that Jennifer Johnston ( the author) left for the reader to decide for themselves.... it is natural to speculate whether or not there is actual evidence of such accusations within the text but from thorough reading you will find no evidence of this matter.

I believe that they were both 'loners' and they were each others only friend and they relied on each other through thick and thin which inturn really developed a close bond between them which may have given off the homosexual vibe....

Can you give an example of such a "vibe". People can be close without being sexual...

Inimitable

Alec and Jerry were two friends who met by a lake and became good friends... and after Alicia makes the shoking revelation about the true paternity of Alec's father and he rampages out of the house they drink poteen and swim...... 'naked'...... :eek:

Is that not a telling sign to anyone that would delve deep enough into this topic of discussion

Coeurdepirate

We discussed that in class, but our teacher told us that we don't need to talk about it. She said it'd be a good thing to bring in in an ideal world, but too risky for the lc as your script corrector could be a homophobic nun or something!

Inimitable

I know liek you dont know what the examiner is going to be like atall... my teacher told us not to talk about because its awkaward and wont be on the marking scheme as a correct answer....

Coeurdepirate

Exactly! That being said, a friend of mine chose "A modern fairytale" as her short story last year and her main character was gay, and she got an A1 in HL! So you never know!

spurious

Inimitable wrote: »

Alec and Jerry were two friends who met by a lake and became good friends... and after Alicia makes the shoking revelation about the true paternity of Alec's father and he rampages out of the house they drink poteen and swim...... 'naked'...... :eek:

Is that not a telling sign to anyone that would delve deep enough into this topic of discussion

Not really.
Bathing suits were not de rigeur in those days.
You have to judge the piece within its time.

spurious

Coeurdepirate wrote: »

We discussed that in class, but our teacher told us that we don't need to talk about it. She said it'd be a good thing to bring in in an ideal world, but too risky for the lc as your script corrector could be a homophobic nun or something!

Adrienne Rich is on the Leaving - that poor fictional nun must be apoplectic.

The SEC is big enough and mature enough for homosexuality and the possibility of it or not, to be of no concern.

Gumbi

Inimitable wrote: »

Alec and Jerry were two friends who met by a lake and became good friends... and after Alicia makes the shoking revelation about the true paternity of Alec's father and he rampages out of the house they drink poteen and swim...... 'naked'...... :eek:

Is that not a telling sign to anyone that would delve deep enough into this topic of discussion

Context, my friend. Context.

Inimitable

I know about the way of the times in the early 1900's but in all honesty if one was looking for evidence all they would have to do is look at the book in a broad context and it would not take very long to get an inkling of homosexuality between them but that aside I think it is only a theory.

implausible

You'll waste a huge amount of time trying to get notes on or write on sexuality as a theme in Babylon - it is far too specific and there really isn't enough to write. If you are comparing it, there is not necessarily going to be sexuality as a theme in the other texts.

If you must, discuss it under the heading of relationships (platonic/sexual) and/or friendship as these headings are far broader and far more likely to be examined in the LC. And as for the examiners being offended, they are teachers who live in the real world and have been teaching and correcting this novel for ten years :rolleyes:.

Inimitable

Do you ever wonder if teachers get tired of doing the same novel/drama every year? Shakesperean texts such as Hamlet & Macbeth come up every year and most teachers stick with the same one year after year.

I want to become a English teacher but I would find it monotonous doingthe same one very year. I know you can argue the point that subjects such as Biology and Business never change but it seems different for English as you have to read it analyse it every time....

Any english teachers out there want to give their opinions?

Gumbi

Inimitable wrote: »

I know about the way of the times in the early 1900's but in all honesty if one was looking for evidence all they would have to do is look at the book in a broad context and it would not take very long to get an inkling of homosexuality between them but that aside I think it is only a theory.

I'm looking at the broad context and I'm not seeing any evidence supporting of this theory. Would you specify?

Inimitable

Simply think of it very broadly... They become friends by the lake... they then spend every waking hour almsot with each other .... they keep telling each other all their problems...... they drink together then swim naked.... they go to war together... then they lie to get each other out of trouble.... Alec sacrifices his life for Jerry just so that he does'nt have to be killed by the firing squad.

I'm not saying each of those statements is evidence but when you look at it as a whole it just gives one an impression.

Gumbi

Inimitable wrote: »

Simply think of it very broadly... They become friends by the lake... they then spend every waking hour almsot with each other .... they keep telling each other all their problems...... they drink together then swim naked.... they go to war together... then they lie to get each other out of trouble.... Alec sacrifices his life for Jerry just so that he does'nt have to be killed by the firing squad.

I'm not saying each of those statements is evidence but when you look at it as a whole it just gives one an impression.

None of that necessarily implies homosexuality.

-Alec goes to war because of his mother, IIRC. Jerry goes because of his father. They don't go to war "together".

-They swam by the lake and drank together because they were friends.

-Alec spares Jerry the firing squad by killing him, thus dooming himslelf, because he's his friend

-The lies are told because they're friends

The only piece of evidence that comes anywhere close to even remotely implying homosexuality is the swim in the lake, which, given the fact that no further evidence of homosexuality is there, is explained much more reasonably by the fact that it was not uncommon to do so in those days.

cloud493

There's also the scene in the trenches when jerry comes back as evidence as homosexuality, if it counts?

Gumbi

cloud493 wrote: »

There's also the scene in the trenches when jerry comes back as evidence as homosexuality, if it counts?

To which scene are you referrong? On the face of it, it sounds like evidence of friendship, not homosexuality.

spurious

You need to read some contemporary accounts of life in the trenches during the First World War and the relationships formed by the men.

cloud493

The bit where Jerry gets back, after the sergeant has reported him missing to the major, and Alex gives him rum, and they sleep in the same bed? I might be entirely wrong, haven't got the book to hand.

hardCopy

When we studied this (Ten years ago!) our teacher told us this was specifically denied by the author at a reading.

But we never believed her

itsme_94

any body have any essays on HMMTB?:)

pandaface

can anyone help me out with alecs reaction to being told mr. moore is not his father in how many miles to babylon? ): thanks

cloud493

pandaface wrote: »

can anyone help me out with alecs reaction to being told mr. moore is not his father in how many miles to babylon? ): thanks

How'd you mean exactly?

Lollipop95

Reading this at the moment,like it so far! Seems like it will be a very powerful story. I am curious to know why Jennifer Johnston chose to call it 'How Many Miles To Babylon' and the important of the title. Anyone know?