UAV in Airsoft

whydave

After seeing the below clip I had a thought (and yes it hurt !) As there are no set Airsoft rules (irish). What should be the rules of engagement for UAV in an Airsoft environment ?
IF it's armed can you fire at it and if it's unarmed what can you do ?
(remember the player who brings one to a game has spent a LOT of cash )
So what do you think ?

whydave wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNPJMk2fgJU

Jsmurff

It would be brilliant to try and utilise such technology in Airsoft but only for reconasense roles as I would not trust anyone with and armed arial device as it could go an shoot anywhere including people adjacent to a game/ site or onto nearby roads possibly cosing accidents

Also I would not want to spend a lot of time and money putting one together only to have it shot at and destroyed in seconds

So in short it would be great craic but it isn't really a feasable tactic or tool for Airsoft

desertstorm

I'd say it's definitely do-able, there's loads of videos online of quad rotors/UAVs doing really impressive things, but there'd be a lot of safety issues that would stop it actually happening (armed that is)

If we're talking hypothetical's here, you could make it to withstand bb strikes and then have something like target plates player's have to hit which would make it return to base/land automatically

Talking about a lot of money to get a system like that working though! Even if it were recon only, I doubt you could trust people to not shoot it so you'd still have to bear that in mind while making it

Probably more realistic option if you wanted something RC in airsoft is a land based device

fayer

Gerrowadat has one and uses's it in RedBarn, not sure what his opinion of it is.

Steve

Zomg Okay

No for Recon only !

If the marshal is okay with it and the owner is okay with the possibility of some numpty emptying a high-cap into it, as well as the inevitable work involved in finding a way to make it operate an airsoft gun, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

gerrowadat

I had a Parrot AR drone I used once. The range is kind of pants (wifi range).

You can get remote RF kit for it for about 250m range, but your all in price is north of 500 quid by then if you want video.

T4RGET

i would say the rules would have to be no engagement, airsoft is a game of simulation for the most part, so we're going to have to 'pretend' it's a real UAV meaning it is well out of range of bullets,or in this BB's. and even still like mentioned there is a lot of money spent on a platform like that so i would say lay down rules so it cannot be shot at (these rules i mean for a recon drone, and not armed as i can't see a aerial vehicle like that being able to fire BB's with any great success)

OzCam

Unless you can fly one of these higher than 30 metres, the owner will either have to get agreement from everyone on site not to shoot at it or be prepared for someone to try to shoot it down. It's just too tempting a target.

PS: I'd love one.

joe stodge

if it came to it i'd throw rocks at it to get it out of the sky.

T4RGET

joe stodge wrote: »

if it came to it i'd throw rocks at it to get it out of the sky.

and that would work better than BB's how :P

gerrowadat

And this is why there are no UAVs in airsoft. Too many bunny rabbits.

Sterling Archer

It could work but with strict rules, and only for some game modes,
Firstly Unarmed
I'd see it as a reward or back-up eg. you team get pushed back beyond your front line, you therefore get 5-10 mins of uav use, monitored by a marshal <-- most important bit i'd think means you'd have to think ahead.

Or your team have to defend a base you get 5 mins uav every 10-15 mins.

Or you capture an objective to get 10 mins uav use, available right away or at anytime.

Co-ordination by marshals would be key eg. once the uav time is up its either RTB or land and have a marshal collect it and RTB or hold it for an in field launch next time.

Also, possible a sin-bin or stern finger shaking for people you shoot at it

Inari

I don't think it's relevant how much something cost; if you bring it to a game to be used, there is acceptable risk. A systema rifle is $1,000+; it doesn't mean that no one is allowed shoot at you in case you get startled and fall on your rifle thus breaking it.

A UAV is a piece of equipment some people may choose to invest in. It could be a game changer. I don't believe you can, or at least should be able to, use a game changer subject to your rules alone. I mean people already bring their BB force-fields, so where would it end? If you use a UAV it's your job to keep it safe - if someone shoots you while you're using it, you fall and as a result it crashes, where do you stand? You're in an airsoft game. You're the anomaly in the equation. If you are uncomfortable with the level of investment versus the risk, then it is not an acceptable risk, so don't use it. Hence why you didn't see many Aston Martins out in the snow

Sorry if this post comes across a little aggressive - I would love to see their use in games, as I love all different types of equipment being used (M203's, Grenades, Riot Shields, IED's etc) but it all comes down to how they're used, and having recently had a bit of a pain with an indestructible game changer, the thought of 'no engagement allowed' doesn't sit well with me. There are ways around it, such as a second over-riding controller that you could fight to obtain to safely shut it down etc.

Keegan

....but it's my ball and nobody is allowed take it!!!!

Have to agree with you Kev and I know where your coming from :rolleyes:

Sterling Archer

On a separate note just think of the game footage..

Along with my first post I think you'd need to be playing with players who prefer to use radios, no point knowing things if no one else does...

I'd love to have one, and bring it to a site and play as a uav operator for either side.

Alabastor_Twob

No for Recon only !

How weird. I've always had an interest in RC planes (even though I've never had the money to afford them), and last night I was sketching plans for an armed airsoft UAV that I might try building over the summer. Or rather, build a cheap RC plane that looks like an armed UAV.

But anyway, I would think that they should be armed if the owner decides so and is willing to fork enough money over to build it, but I don't think it would be a game changer. If you only had one then it wouldn't be able to do any overwhelming amount of damage. Any weapon that has the capacity to fire more than one or two bursts of bb's would probably be rather heavy, and a UAV that could carry it would probably be obscenely expensive. And I don't think there are any airsofters in Ireland who are that rich.

So really, it's probably a null point, unless someone got a squadron of tiny helicopters each loaded with a downwards pointing 40mm airsoft grenade.

ironclaw

All due respect lads, its not a viable suggestion. Wind, rain, damage, open sites. Site insurance etc. You'd have to be loaded to drop €500 on a 'UAV' and allow people to shoot it, or operate it or generally bring it into such a gaming enviorment. It serves no benefit in furthering the game. Maybe for game footage but not as an addition to gaming.

I honestly cannot see why people would even consider this as a viable or enjoyable addition to gaming. IMO, excusing the pun, time to take the head out of the clouds lads.

Steve

gerrowadat wrote: »

And this is why there are no UAVs in airsoft. Too many bunny rabbits.

Yeah, post edited. Less of the derogatory stuff please.

gerrowadat

Relevant to both previous posts.

MagicIRL

The closest you'll get will be some form of RC helicopter or similar. And, as said above, I only think it could be used for filming game from above. Having attempted to fly an RC Helicopter indoors, I can say it is incredibly difficult. And that's without trees, wildlife and the elements against you.

whydave

No for Recon only !

So in summing up we the boards.ie airsoft community believe the UAV's in Airsoft should be unarmed and for recon only and if the owner wishes to arm it then it can be fired apon (with set site rules idea below )

Shane_ef wrote: »

It could work but with strict rules, and only for some game modes,
Firstly Unarmed
I'd see it as a reward or back-up eg. you team get pushed back beyond your front line, you therefore get 5-10 mins of uav use, monitored by a marshal <-- most important bit i'd think means you'd have to think ahead.
Or your team have to defend a base you get 5 mins uav every 10-15 mins.
Or you capture an objective to get 10 mins uav use, available right away or at anytime.
Co-ordination by marshals would be key eg. once the uav time is up its either RTB or land and have a marshal collect it and RTB or hold it for an in field launch next time.
Also, possible a sin-bin or stern finger shaking for people you shoot at it

Jsmurff

Wait I just remembered something that will render this completely pointless…

Hands up if you've played a game where you switched your handset to the enemy's channel…

Sorry to rain on the parade but Iam in a fowl mood

desertstorm

I think if you were to arm it, 203's would be a good route... 4 203s pointing downward arranged to give a nice spread zone could make for a good game bonus for flushing out trouble

In terms of taking hits, you could have a protective shell on the underside of the UAV, with a piezo-sensor attached to the shell so it could monitor how many times it's been hit and determine when it's "disabled"

I'd be all up for making one, been wanting to make a quadro for a while, unfortunately I have neither the time or funds... but definitely something I'd be interested in looking into when I get a chance!

I think a possible issue that may limit a system like that practically is that flying RC's are meant to stay within view of the controller by law? Not sure about that for certain, just remember my brother mentioning something along the lines of that before

Something along the lines of this might be more practical, but again a load of issues/risks such as someone just giving it a boot:

Also, just coz:

Sterling Archer

Look at it like this, shur it'd be a bit of crack

GaryIrv93

I think it'd work better if it was smaller and quieter. Because if any other airsofter on the opposing team happened to see it, they'd probably do their best to shoot it down and alert the others. I've an idea: what about airsoft SAM launchers for taking down those UAV's if people start using them? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBt_W_qxcLs Though they might create good diversions: if they get spotted by the opposing team, many might turn their attention to the UAV, and give the other team a chance to close in on them. It's a good little machine I think.

T4RGET

whydave wrote: »

So in summing up we the boards.ie airsoft community believe the UAV's in Airsoft should be unarmed and for recon only and if the owner wishes to arm it then it can be fired apon (with set site rules idea below )

yup sums it up, it's only fair. you know if you get shot at.. shoot back. then again depending on how high it can fly I'd say it may actually be pretty difficult to hit.

Inari

As I said before; there needs to be a method of taking it out. Shooting it down is the main way people will think, and is the most realistic. I appreciate someone has invested a lot, but if they weren't prepared to take the risk then they should not have brought it.

There is always a simple solution though - if you're using video, and people are shooting at your UAV and you're worried, just call it as a hit and return it to ground. I'd say there ar even easier and better solutions than that which would work more conclusively

Puding

ignoring all the practical issue ( cost, weight, safety, stuff like that), I know from experience that information is key in any event but the reality is even at the most organized games communication is fractured at best, no point having the information from a UAV if you can not get it to the people that need it

solve that problem first I say

tbh I would actually see a small remote control car for squads to use would be more practical to start with

Sterling Archer

Puding wrote: »

tbh I would actually see a small remote control car for squads to use would be more practical to start with

AW2

Inari

It is interesting to think of their usage in game, especially with Puding's suggestion of the RC Car.

I can see some benefit on their use in the likes of Vacant or Tallaght CQB, with games semi-designed around their usage, such as a hostage rescue game where any alert of 'police' entering will cause the hostages to be executed. The UAV or RC car reconnaissance mission would allow the attackers gain a rough idea of the layout of the defenders, to plan an attack.

But even so, having just plucked that from the top of my head, the inherent flaws become obvious - the device is easily spotted, and thus easily gotten rid of.

I would love to see greater integration of different equipment across the board though. I mean all you have to do is think of a game you were at, where someone brought something slightly unusual that added a much-needed layer to the game's dynamic, such as a support gun, or even grenades? UAV's and RC cars w/cameras have the potential to add to the game, but what exactly that is, is as of yet purely speculative.

Arcto

Bad idea for ingame use. It would all be great until someone shoots the rotors off of it and then someone starts crying about there expensive COD copter.

Would be great for footage though.

SideNote: That FPSRussia video is fake as fook. I can tell by these pixels.

whydave

No for Recon only !

Arcto wrote: »

SideNote: That FPSRussia video is fake as fook. I can tell by these pixels.

whydave wrote: »

I had a thought (and yes it hurt !)

Still think it's class !!

mayotobo

the parrot ARdrone's battery only lasts for up to 20 mins and the time needed to deploy it and fly it would render the user more vulnerable and as such i believe would be add an eciting and different element to the game...with slightly updated rules such as a limit to the amount of batteries per skirmish and the restriction of shootig at it. Also the ARdrone now has a 720p front camera which would make for excellent footage. But hey thats only my opinion

TheDoc

The larger paintball games use UAV's and they work fine, and nobody acts the bollox.

They are actually going to Sennybridge for a rather big game this summer, brother in law is a serious paintball milsimer.

They attach little GPS devices in their vests, and the UAVs pick up the signals and relay it back to command. I'm not sure on the actual "livefeed" in terms of time delay, but commanders have a relatively solid idea where their teams are.

They also use small blocksthat have little GPS transmitters, that they place in buildings or locations to mark enemy targets or structures for commanders to organise air strikes.

He was showing me a video on his phone of the command tent at the last event he was at.

For all the guff people give paintballers, the milsim paintballers are MILES head of airsoft when it comes to this stuff.

**** they even have transport with mounted 50cal cases, that have gravity fed markers inside them so it looks like a 50cal paintball marker.

We were seriously looking into the HUD setup for airsoft. It involved us having GPS transponders on our person, which relays your positions back to your commanders HUD, which literally was on his helmet and on a PDA.

Each team member also had a PDA system where they could mark targets which would be highlighted along with marking downed men, objectives etc etc

However the cost was significant, and required a method of data transfer between team members

But mostly because of the fact most games here are skirmishes and unorganised, the investment in a piece of tech that promotes organised gameplay would be a waste.

They are pretty much the norm in the US airsoft milsim scene afaik, forget the name, but it was a pricey setup at around the €300-400 mark.

desertstorm

With the amount of people who have smart phones, I wonder would someone with the smarts for it be able to make an app to relay team member whereabouts?

Could get rough positioning from GPS, and communication via 3G? Then just leave the app running in your pocket or somewhere safe while commanders monitor, or whip it out to see where everyone is?

Wouldn't claim to have the know-how myself and I've no idea how difficult it'd be to make such an app

mayotobo

desertstorm wrote: »

With the amount of people who have smart phones, I wonder would someone with the smarts for it be able to make an app to relay team member whereabouts?

Could get rough positioning from GPS, and communication via 3G? Then just leave the app running in your pocket or somewhere safe while commanders monitor, or whip it out to see where everyone is?

Wouldn't claim to have the know-how myself and I've no idea how difficult it'd be to make such an app

but that means bringing smartphones with you skirmishing...smartphones which are largely expensive and delicate. it would only take one stray bb to crack a screen...i know this from experience

However with the growing interest in android platforms and more people getting familiar with programming with .sdk files id imagine it won't be long until someone does this. apps like latitude which relays a friends position could be used to feed information to the pilot of the drone much like a spotter. so the basic requirements for this setup would be everyone carry a smartphone on the field and have them protected with a small foam padded lunchbox or sonething like that, an ARdrone and two tablets/smartphones. i plan on getting one soon and will certainly test out the idea at home with some friends. If I'm happy with the setup I'd have no problem taking it to a site of the marshalls would allow it

desertstorm

mayotobo wrote: »

protected with a small foam padded lunchbox

Always knew this would come in handy again

richieffff

desertstorm wrote: »

With the amount of people who have smart phones, I wonder would someone with the smarts for it be able to make an app to relay team member whereabouts?

Could get rough positioning from GPS, and communication via 3G? Then just leave the app running in your pocket or somewhere safe while commanders monitor, or whip it out to see where everyone is?

Wouldn't claim to have the know-how myself and I've no idea how difficult it'd be to make such an app

Sort of like BattleTac?

TheDoc

Downside being everyone would nee to have a GPS enabled smartphone.

And considering the ****ters that play with their full auto from two feet, nah sorry, not risking a €400 phone...

Plus its basically an addon for layor, which is meh.

Arkslippy

The problem with the uav is that if something happens like often do with rc models, it loses control or crashes and it lands on someone......

for landbased vehicles the problem is if someone gives it a kick or steps on it and breaks it.

the only real problem id have is that if team "a" arrives with a gAmes change it could cause the other team to think it unfair.