Two arrested following discovery of body

thomasm

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gardai-probe-suspicious-waterford-death-two-held-3089384.html

Down scotch quay area, sketchy details so far

Nypd

thomasm wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gardai-probe-suspicious-waterford-death-two-held-3089384.html

Down scotch quay area, sketchy details so far

Here we go again

abouttobebanned

RIP :-(

CardBordWindow

RTE says

Two people have been arrested following the death of a man in Waterford city last night.
Gardaí are treating the death as suspicious.
The body of the man who was in his 60s was found in an apartment in the city last night. It was discovered in the Scotch Marsh House apartment complex, in the Scotch Quay area of the city.
It is not yet known how the man died.
A man in his late 40s and a woman in her late 30s have been arrested for questioning.
The man's body remains at the scene and the Office of the State Pathologist has been notified.
Both can be held for up to 24 hours under Section 4 of the Criminal Justice Act.
Gardaí are appealing for anyone who may have seen anything suspicious in the Scotch Quay, Scotsh Hall or William and Canada Street area's of the city between half nine and half past ten last night to come forward.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0424/mans-body-found-in-a-waterford-apartment-block.html

abouttobebanned

So it seems that scotch Quay is not the place to be these days.

cocoshovel

abouttobebanned wrote: »

So it seems that scotch Quay is not the place to be these days.

It doesnt seem like that bad of an area. Stuff like this can happen anywhere, as it did in Kilkenny a few months back in a fairly nice area.

I still dont know where Scothc Quay is, I know the general area by canada street but its not listed on any maps. Is it jjust an apartment complex?

Nypd

cocoshovel wrote: »

abouttobebanned wrote: »

So it seems that scotch Quay is not the place to be these days.

It doesnt seem like that bad of an area. Stuff like this can happen anywhere, as it did in Kilkenny a few months back in a fairly nice area.

I still dont know where Scothc Quay is, I know the general area by canada street but its not listed on any maps. Is it jjust an apartment complex?

Left turn after the little stone bridge on Lombard street, just before the auction house

cocoshovel

Nypd wrote: »

Left turn after the little stone bridge on Lombard street, just before the auction house

Thought that was Georges Quay?

abouttobebanned

Scotch Quay is the cobblstone quay that leads into the marina hotel. Under the bridge into a cul de sac is Harbour View, and around the corner leads into canada street.

For no reason whatsoever, here is a view into the canada street/park road area.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPlMB1TRrds

This is the 3rd major incident in this area in recent months. It's 85% foreigners down this way (according to a well known real estate agent.)

Gael23

Its down by Lombard St,Canada St, all that area. Thats not the best place to be

ziedth

Isn't there a very expensive apartment complex in that area? Two beds used to go for like €800 a month.

I used to live down in Adelphi Quay many years ago and i never saw an ounce of trouble.

mike65

abouttobebanned wrote: »

This is the 3rd major incident in this area in recent months. It's 85% foreigners down this way (according to a well known real estate agent.)

Well I hope it turns out to be Irish killers then. It'll mean the residents are in fact fairly safe.

TheGormog

Very sad news, RIP. A homegrown incident I hear.

membersonly

mike65 wrote: »

Well I hope it turns out to be Irish killers then. It'll mean the residents are in fact fairly safe.

It wouldn't mean that at all though really.

jo06555

Not foreigners its local and apparently its a brother of a well known name in the city ....bad beating the man got apparently

deisemum

RIP.

merlante

It's a grand area, never see any hassle or violent incidents. Very mixed population from students and non-nationals to more or less every class of people.

That said, there have been stabbings and a suspicious death within a week or so, if you include Canada sq. But, these are private incidents, between people who know each other. It's a different thing when people are assaulted on the street at random, which I've never seen.

ILoveShoez

Does it matter if they are Irish or Foreign?! Someone is now mourning the loss of a loved one be it a brother, father, uncle, nephew etc.

RIP.

hardybuck

merlante wrote: »

It's a grand area, never see any hassle or violent incidents. Very mixed population from students and non-nationals to more or less every class of people.

That said, there have been stabbings and a suspicious death within a week or so, if you include Canada sq. But, these are private incidents, between people who know each other. It's a different thing when people are assaulted on the street at random, which I've never seen.

If I was recommending an area to a friend or relative, I wouldn't be classing it as 'grand' because the violent assaults/murders take place behind closed doors. If this is where we are as a society then standards must be at an all time low.

abouttobebanned

Exactly. It's absolutely ridiculous to call it a grand area after the amount of incidents that have happened there recently.

And Iloveshoez, it may not matter where they were from but there's nothing wrong with us talking about it.

Bluezar

I live down in Scotch quay and I love living down there. Bit unfair to judge everyone by the actions of scumbags. Had the Gardai at the door earlier asking me and my mates quetions about the incident. The Garda told me that a man had been killed. Street is cordoned off now and all the press were put back onto William Street as only residents could come in and out. Forensics were in there about an hour ago when I left home

batm!ke

Bluezar wrote: »

I live down in Scotch quay and I love living down there. Bit unfair to judge everyone by the actions of scumbags. Had the Gardai at the door earlier asking me and my mates quetions about the incident. The Garda told me that a man had been killed. Street is cordoned off now and all the press were put back onto William Street as only residents could come in and out. Forensics were in there about an hour ago when I left home

^ This. I lived on Scotch Quay / William St. / Canada Square for 5 years and never actually saw trouble. Could be a few dodgy-looking characters around alright but never happened upon an incident or was involved in one.

fricatus

Yeah, I lived down there (a good while back) and my brother presently does. No real issues at all. I never felt threatened, and neither did anyone I know.

I suppose the fact that there is a big concentration of single males and divorced guys means that there are sometimes drinking sessions where friendly banter can take an unexpected turn when some eejit has had ten too many. That seems to be the sort of thing that happens down there.

There certainly aren't gangs of scumbags assaulting passers-by like you get in more suburban areas though. I'd have no problem walking around there at any time.

Speak Now

Thats two horrible deaths in the city today

abouttobebanned

I lived in harbour view for a long time, but like you guys I kept myself to myself and never really strayed towards canada street. And I often walked home from work at 2 and 3am...never a bother. But I wouldn't go as far as to say the area is a grand spot.

merlante

hardybuck wrote: »

If I was recommending an area to a friend or relative, I wouldn't be classing it as 'grand' because the violent assaults/murders take place behind closed doors. If this is where we are as a society then standards must be at an all time low.

I think you're missing the point. That man who died, died not because he went for a walk along Scotch quay. He died because he knew the wrong people. If the group had been over in his house, instead, we'd be talking about a 'suspicious death' in Spring Garden alley.

Where would you prefer to live? Somewhere where every once in a while somebody gets beaten up on the street, or somewhere where nobody ever gets beaten up on the street but where somebody gets killed by acquaintances behind closed doors? I'd take the safe streets, personally. And there'd want to be a lot more murders and stabbings before I'd be reluctant to recommend an area in which I have never witnessed any violence. There are plenty of housing estates where people haven't been murdered but where gangs roam and occasionally attack people. That is not where I would like to live.

I remember one year Waterford was named 'murder capital' for its murder rate. Did we all stop recommending Waterford as a place to live? (That was for 4 (!) murders in the city and county that year, by the way.)

As far as I'm concerned, these violent incidents are a function of the sort of people the victims hang around with. Until members of the general public start getting preyed upon, beaten up, robbed, etc., I wouldn't hesitate to recommend an area to someone. (You may remember that an individual was beaten to death in the park by a couple of guys with hurleys a few years back. This has stopped neither parents bringing children to the park nor joggers running late into the evening -- and rightly so -- it was a private matter.)

mike65

That was 2006 wasn't it?

http://irishsalem.com/irish-controversies/crime-in-ireland/worstyear-forkillings-01jan06.php

stats are of course useless for this sort of discussion, one murder can make the per capital rate jump massively a small population.

merlante

mike65 wrote: »

That was 2006 wasn't it?

http://irishsalem.com/irish-controversies/crime-in-ireland/worstyear-forkillings-01jan06.php

stats are of course useless for this sort of discussion, one murder can make the per capital rate jump massively a small population.

Those heady days! We're all lucky to have gotten through the 'terror' of '06.

Luckycharms_74

The announced the man on WLRfm at 3.00 news. He lived in spring garden alley and he was a local

Edit : Just saw merlante's post

abouttobebanned

merlante wrote: »

I think you're missing the point. That man who died, died not because he went for a walk along Scotch quay. He died because he knew the wrong people. If the group had been over in his house, instead, we'd be talking about a 'suspicious death' in Spring Garden alley.

Where would you prefer to live? Somewhere where every once in a while somebody gets beaten up on the street, or somewhere where nobody ever gets beaten up on the street but where somebody gets killed by acquaintances behind closed doors? I'd take the safe streets, personally. And there'd want to be a lot more murders and stabbings before I'd be reluctant to recommend an area in which I have never witnessed any violence. There are plenty of housing estates where people haven't been murdered but where gangs roam and occasionally attack people. That is not where I would like to live.

I remember one year Waterford was named 'murder capital' for its murder rate. Did we all stop recommending Waterford as a place to live? (That was for 4 (!) murders in the city and county that year, by the way.)

As far as I'm concerned, these violent incidents are a function of the sort of people the victims hang around with. Until members of the general public start getting preyed upon, beaten up, robbed, etc., I wouldn't hesitate to recommend an area to someone. (You may remember that an individual was beaten to death in the park by a couple of guys with hurleys a few years back. This has stopped neither parents bringing children to the park nor joggers running late into the evening -- and rightly so -- it was a private matter.)

it seems you're missing the point too. These "wrong people" were living in this area. Hence, in my opinion, it's not a grand place to live.

mikom

merlante wrote: »

I think you're missing the point. That man who died, died not because he went for a walk along Scotch quay. He died because he knew the wrong people.

As far as I'm concerned, these violent incidents are a function of the sort of people the victims hang around with.

Tell that to Shane Geoghegan.

1967

The chap who died was a harmless individual and never put in or out on anybody,yes he liked a drink but that does in no way mean he should have his life taken,the guy arrested is not out of prison long for a very violent offence in the same area five or six years ago,for the intuative people on this forum the guy arrested has a brother with a few dogs

merlante

abouttobebanned wrote: »

it seems you're missing the point too. These "wrong people" were living in this area. Hence, in my opinion, it's not a grand place to live.

Sure, but maybe they live in other areas too. At 1/2 murders per year in the city we'd have to wait about 100 years for any reasonable statistics!

I take the point that there *may* (and I'm not convinced about this) be more dubious people in the Scotch quay/Canada sq. area than there are generally in the city. (It's very difficult to say for certain one way or the other.) But to me this is yet another story about the company people keep. You're entitled to your opinion, but in my view, the area is a good place to live and better than most facilities-wise, where -- unless you hang around with dubious people -- you are unlikely to experience any trouble.

merlante

mikom wrote: »

Tell that to Shane Geoghegan.

Like I said, if ordinary bystanders start getting killed then the problem is far worse.

By the way, just before people do the lazy thing and respond without reading the thread, I am not a) advocating murder, b) saying that murders behind closed doors are okay or c) suggesting that people who hang out with scumbags deserve to die. I hope these things are obvious!

hardybuck

merlante wrote: »

I think you're missing the point. That man who died, died not because he went for a walk along Scotch quay. He died because he knew the wrong people. If the group had been over in his house, instead, we'd be talking about a 'suspicious death' in Spring Garden alley.

Where would you prefer to live? Somewhere where every once in a while somebody gets beaten up on the street, or somewhere where nobody ever gets beaten up on the street but where somebody gets killed by acquaintances behind closed doors? I'd take the safe streets, personally. And there'd want to be a lot more murders and stabbings before I'd be reluctant to recommend an area in which I have never witnessed any violence. There are plenty of housing estates where people haven't been murdered but where gangs roam and occasionally attack people. That is not where I would like to live.

I remember one year Waterford was named 'murder capital' for its murder rate. Did we all stop recommending Waterford as a place to live? (That was for 4 (!) murders in the city and county that year, by the way.)

As far as I'm concerned, these violent incidents are a function of the sort of people the victims hang around with. Until members of the general public start getting preyed upon, beaten up, robbed, etc., I wouldn't hesitate to recommend an area to someone. (You may remember that an individual was beaten to death in the park by a couple of guys with hurleys a few years back. This has stopped neither parents bringing children to the park nor joggers running late into the evening -- and rightly so -- it was a private matter.)

For me its not a choice between violent attacks in the home or on the street. I've never lived in an area which had either issue.

If you go back in time, even the areas which would be considered very tough didn't have this sort of carry on. It has slowly crept into society and become normal for some people. If this man died because he knew the wrong people, I certainly wouldn't want to count them as neighbours or even friends of my neighbours.

The incident in the park - I've never brought children there at 3am. It was always dodgy there at night and still is.

merlante

hardybuck wrote: »

For me its not a choice between violent attacks in the home or on the street. I've never lived in an area which had either issue.

If you go back in time, even the areas which would be considered very tough didn't have this sort of carry on. It has slowly crept into society and become normal for some people. If this man died because he knew the wrong people, I certainly wouldn't want to count them as neighbours or even friends of my neighbours.

The incident in the park - I've never brought children there at 3am. It was always dodgy there at night and still is.

Jesus, where have you lived? In fairness, there are 100 cops in Waterford and they are there for a reason. You wouldn't necessarily hear about everything that goes on in your area.

Murders are rare enough. They are always felt to be bizarre/horrifying/out of place, wherever they happen, because they are thankfully rare. I would say, without checking the statistics, that murders are down over time. I mean, you only have to go back to the troubles and the formation of the state, etc.

Statistically speaking, if you want to predict a chance of something really bad kicking off in a group, the criminal records, education and occupations of the group members will be a much better predictor of serious crime than the area one of them happens to live in. Particularly, when there are plenty of students and quite a few families in the area in question and, realistically, they are much less likely to be killing each other.

I would also hope that if and when the perpetrator is charged and put away that there wouldn't be too many other would-be murders in the area!

Re the park, it's a lot safer than it used to be, even a few years ago. 3am is probably not the safest time to be wandering around anywhere.

Potential-Monke

merlante wrote: »

You wouldn't hear about everything that goes on in your area.

FYP.

merlante wrote: »

Murders are rare enough. They are always felt to be bizarre/horrifying/out of place, wherever they happen, because they are thankfully rare. I would say, without checking the statistics, that murders are down over time. I mean, you only have to go back to the troubles and the formation of the state, etc.

According to this link, the statistics show that Homicide has been steadily increasing in Ireland since 1953 (up to the latest, 2007). There is no breakdown by area, but it still shows a trend...

merlante

Potential-Monke wrote: »

According to this link, the statistics show that Homicide has been steadily increasing in Ireland since 1953 (up to the latest, 2007). There is no breakdown by area, but it still shows a trend...

Cool.

Looking at the Homicide Rate per 100,000 pop, it's definitely up between 1991 and 1996. Only up slightly, I would say, between 1996 and 2006, but the 2005-2007 taken together looks like things have taken a turn for the worse. Not sure how statistically significant those changes are. Still, it does seem to get worse over time since 1951. Would be interesting to see the recession figures! (Maybe people's perceptions are right and things are getting worse?)

I guess from the 70's/80's on you're seeing the gangland stuff come in to boost the numbers. Pity we don't have figures for murders arising from pissups gone sour.

mike65

The per 100,000 thing is crazy for murder in Waterford or indeed any Irish county, 1 person get done in its 1 in 100,000 2 get done in its 1 in 50,000 but are you now twice as likely to get murdered? Nope. In 2006 one of the dead was killed by someone passing through if I recall correctly.

abouttobebanned

Please tell me that it wasn't how do that was killed

ex_infantry man

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Please tell me that it wasn't how do that was killed

did you hear that also???

abouttobebanned

Yes and I'm hoping its a nasty rumour.

cocoshovel

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Yes and I'm hoping its a nasty rumour.

Has been spread many times before, so Id be skeptical.

cocoshovel

From RTE website

Gardaí are treating the death of Joe O'Brien as suspicious.

hardybuck

merlante wrote: »

Jesus, where have you lived? In fairness, there are 100 cops in Waterford and they are there for a reason. You wouldn't necessarily hear about everything that goes on in your area.

Murders are rare enough. They are always felt to be bizarre/horrifying/out of place, wherever they happen, because they are thankfully rare. I would say, without checking the statistics, that murders are down over time. I mean, you only have to go back to the troubles and the formation of the state, etc.

Statistically speaking, if you want to predict a chance of something really bad kicking off in a group, the criminal records, education and occupations of the group members will be a much better predictor of serious crime than the area one of them happens to live in. Particularly, when there are plenty of students and quite a few families in the area in question and, realistically, they are much less likely to be killing each other.

I would also hope that if and when the perpetrator is charged and put away that there wouldn't be too many other would-be murders in the area!

Re the park, it's a lot safer than it used to be, even a few years ago. 3am is probably not the safest time to be wandering around anywhere.

Jesus where have you lived!? If Gardai ever entered where I grew up in Waterford (Newtown) it would be to investigate a burgulary rather than someone getting attacked on the street or stabbed in the home. If someone didn't cut their grass once a week people would hear about it. I'm sorry if violent attacks became a normal part of life where you lived, and I don't think it should be classed as normal.

The criminal records, education and occupation will have an impact on income, and therfore where people decide to live. So basically some areas are rougher than others, i.e. the area where this occured. Thanks for backing up my piont for me.

Back to point though, these types of attacks are becoming increasingly frequent. We can't really blame politicians or Gardai for this, people are just getting out of their minds and becoming more and more violent. Were incidents like this happening 20 or 30 years ago?

jo06555

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Please tell me that it wasn't how do that was killed

Serious??? I taught him straight away for some reason , harmless owl fella hope not true , only seeing him other day with his plastic cup down on mall

cocoshovel

jo06555 wrote: »

Serious??? I taught him straight away for some reason , harmless owl fella hope not true , only seeing him other day with his plastic cup down on mall

See my post down below that with the RTE quote. They name who the person was. I dont think thats his name.

merlante

hardybuck wrote: »

Jesus where have you lived!? If Gardai ever entered where I grew up in Waterford (Newtown) it would be to investigate a burgulary rather than someone getting attacked on the street or stabbed in the home. If someone didn't cut their grass once a week people would hear about it. I'm sorry if violent attacks became a normal part of life where you lived, and I don't think it should be classed as normal.

The criminal records, education and occupation will have an impact on income, and therfore where people decide to live. So basically some areas are rougher than others, i.e. the area where this occured. Thanks for backing up my piont for me.

Back to point though, these types of attacks are becoming increasingly frequent. We can't really blame politicians or Gardai for this, people are just getting out of their minds and becoming more and more violent. Were incidents like this happening 20 or 30 years ago?

I can assure you that, even in Newtown, people have been arrested for assault at various points.

Let break it down for you: some areas have a mix of people, some of whom have criminal records, low education and low-income occupations, and others of whom come from various other backgrounds, i.e. students, economic migrants etc.; other areas have predominantly people who have criminal records, low education and low-income occupations -- these are the bad areas. If you think scotch quay is one of the more dangerous areas of the city then I find it hard to take your argument seriously. (Obviously a few very hard men on here -- who are clearly scumbags -- probably lording it down in Limerick now.)

The homocide figures that were cited earlier clearly show that although murders have increased over the years, society has not suddenly erupted into carnage in very recent times. But anyway, I have no idea what point you are trying to make, when you imply a) that stabbings are so rare you'd hear all about it, and b) attacks are increasingly frequent and people are "getting out of their minds and becoming more and more violent". If you mean that things have *suddenly* gotten worse, that doesn't appear to have happened. Do you think maybe you might have an overly rosy picture of your childhood and are just watching the news more these days?

Bluezar

Just asked a Garda outside our flat and it was not How do that was killed

BlaasForRafa

1967 wrote: »

The chap who died was a harmless individual and never put in or out on anybody,yes he liked a drink but that does in no way mean he should have his life taken,the guy arrested is not out of prison long for a very violent offence in the same area five or six years ago,for the intuative people on this forum the guy arrested has a brother with a few dogs

Think I know who you're talking about because I heard that rumour tonight as well.

Adyx

merlante wrote: »

I think you're missing the point. That man who died, died not because he went for a walk along Scotch quay. He died because he knew the wrong people. If the group had been over in his house, instead, we'd be talking about a 'suspicious death' in Spring Garden alley.

Where would you prefer to live? Somewhere where every once in a while somebody gets beaten up on the street, or somewhere where nobody ever gets beaten up on the street but where somebody gets killed by acquaintances behind closed doors? I'd take the safe streets, personally. And there'd want to be a lot more murders and stabbings before I'd be reluctant to recommend an area in which I have never witnessed any violence. There are plenty of housing estates where people haven't been murdered but where gangs roam and occasionally attack people. That is not where I would like to live.

I remember one year Waterford was named 'murder capital' for its murder rate. Did we all stop recommending Waterford as a place to live? (That was for 4 (!) murders in the city and county that year, by the way.)

As far as I'm concerned, these violent incidents are a function of the sort of people the victims hang around with. Until members of the general public start getting preyed upon, beaten up, robbed, etc., I wouldn't hesitate to recommend an area to someone. (You may remember that an individual was beaten to death in the park by a couple of guys with hurleys a few years back. This has stopped neither parents bringing children to the park nor joggers running late into the evening -- and rightly so -- it was a private matter.)

mike65 wrote: »

The per 100,000 thing is crazy for murder in Waterford or indeed any Irish county, 1 person get done in its 1 in 100,000 2 get done in its 1 in 50,000 but are you now twice as likely to get murdered? Nope. In 2006 one of the dead was killed by someone passing through if I recall correctly.

I didn't think I'd be agreeing with Merlante after the last thread but to be honest this is pure sense. Unless you're in with the wrong crowd I think Waterford is in general a very safe place. You're always going to have your scumbags knocking around but even walking home from town to Cherrymount along the Cork/Tramore Road at 2:30-3:00 in the morning, I've never felt in any real danger. Relatively speaking, I think Waterford is quite safe for your average person.

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Think I know who you're talking about because I heard that rumour tonight as well.

Longish grey/white hair is the rumour I heard but I hope not. Obviously RIP to whoever it may be.