Irish Rail fine because I bought two tickets with one student card

Billyum

Irish Rail are tryin to fine me €120 quid!

Their problem is! I bought two student tickets with my student travel card last january, one for me and one for another passenger and apparently thats not allowed! I did think of this when buying them but i said if its wrong then either A) the machine wont sell them to me or the ticket inspector wont let us through. I bought the tickets together from the kiosk at the station and it happily sold them to me without prompting me that this was not allowed! not only that, the ticket inspectors checked my ticket and the other passengers ticket and asked for my travel card at the the station, they said! yeah thats fine, have a nice journey! Our tickets and my student car were checked again after we had to change trains by another inspector, here again he said, yes thats fine bla bla bla.....

Then three months later i get a letter to the effect "this was actually not ok and you owe us 120 quid"... i had a good laugh and ignored it but now iv another letter saying the going to prosecute me! lol:mad: if i dont pay within a week, do they actually pursue these things?????

I dont know about you but i think after having two inspectors checking the tickets and the machine selling me them in the first place that coming back 3 months later is bollocks. If the inspector had asked us to pay the full fair, or informed us we were doing wrong, the other passenger would have payed them. If inspectors are going to let people through without checking tickets properly then by right, they should shove their letter up there hole.....

Any similar experiences or thoughts?

frozenfrozen

Can you just tell them your student id card was lost/stolen and that you can not be held accountable for anything it was used for? and claim that it was the ticket inspectors fault for not properly identifying the user(s) of the card at the time.

L1011

I would have thought it was blatantly obvious that a student discount only applies to the student themselves.

An inspector not knowing all the rules doesn't change anything.

Billyum

MYOB wrote: »

I would have thought it was blatantly obvious that a student discount only applies to the student themselves.

An inspector not knowing all the rules doesn't change anything.

Of course it changes it, the purpose of an inspector is to check the validity of passengers tickets, he examined them and expressly stated that they were fine.

Mycroft H

Each discounted fare must have the specific id attached to it. You need the student travel card for each person for each discounted fare as the persons ID is printed on the ticket.

Each person needs an individual student travel card, long story short. You could chance appealing the fine but ignorance of the law is no defense.

Billyum

I understand that, i do, but i wasnt sure of it at the time, its just why didnt the inspector pick up on it there and then? we would have willingly payed the full price, instead of waiting 3 months and charging €120, Its just annoying...

MrJoeSoap

Billyum wrote: »

Of course it changes it, the purpose of an inspector is to check the validity of passengers tickets, he examined them and expressly stated that they were fine.

And the purpose of a student ticket is to provide a discount for a student with the relevant travel card. It's quite clear you know that you were in the wrong here, but that you are shifting the blame onto the ticket inspectors.

The thing I don't understand is the process in the background between you showing your card and the letter making its way to you three months later. Surely if you had just briefly shown your ID there wouldn't have been any notice taken of your name and details etc? Seems a bit bizarre that two ticket inspectors have told you that you were fine to travel, then issued you with a fine.

Out of interest, have you contacted Irish Rail at all about this?

PS - If they've issued a fine, then issued a notice to prosecute, you'd be best off taking it seriously and not ignoring it like you've done to date.

MrJoeSoap

Billyum wrote: »

I understand that, i do, but i wasnt sure of it at the time

Again, ignorance won't wash in this situation. Surely anyone with a bit of awareness would realise a student couldn't just buy another student ticket for anyone? And if in doubt, ask before you buy.

frozenfrozen

I presume the ticket machine flagged the purchase of two tickets.

daddydick

Did you really think that just because you have a student card that you can get discounts for more than yourself??? Come off it!

Title is incrediblly harsh, you were at fault

frozenfrozen

As a 16 year old I had to pay 47 euro for a return ticket to dublin from limerick because I wasn't carrying a student card at the time, can I go and claim back the difference after the date or are they happy to stick with how it worked out for them?

OP if the person you bought the ticket for was also a student I see no problem with what you did and you should do as I said and claim your id was stolen and you can't be held accountable for what happened. If the person was not elegible to own a student card then you are the "prick" in this situation.

Billyum

frozenfrozen wrote: »

I presume the ticket machine flagged the purchase of two tickets.

No it didnt

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Again, ignorance won't wash in this situation. Surely anyone with a bit of awareness would realise a student couldn't just buy another student ticket for anyone? And if in doubt, ask before you buy.

Im not sayin ignorance is going to wash the situation at all, but after TWO! separate officials had told us that we could travel??? and then somebody else turn around and say this wasnt the case? their contradicting themselves

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

And the purpose of a student ticket is to provide a discount for a student with the relevant travel card. It's quite clear you know that you were in the wrong here, but that you are shifting the blame onto the ticket inspectors.

The thing I don't understand is the process in the background between you showing your card and the letter making its way to you three months later. Surely if you had just briefly shown your ID there wouldn't have been any notice taken of your name and details etc? Seems a bit bizarre that two ticket inspectors have told you that you were fine to travel, then issued you with a fine.

Out of interest, have you contacted Irish Rail at all about this?

PS - If they've issued a fine, then issued a notice to prosecute, you'd be best off taking it seriously and not ignoring it like you've done to date.

The travel card ID number has to be entered in the machine, they can get your contact details from that

Tragedy

Billyum, did your friend have a travel card?

Billyum

frozenfrozen wrote: »

As a 16 year old I had to pay 47 euro for a return ticket to dublin from limerick because I wasn't carrying a student card at the time, can I go and claim back the difference after the date or are they happy to stick with how it worked out for them?

OP if the person you bought the ticket for was also a student I see no problem with what you did and you should do as I said and claim your id was stolen and you can't be held accountable for what happened. If the person was not elegible to own a student card then you are the "prick" in this situation.

They were a student! they had a student card! but not a travel card! I just want to make clear!! both of us are students!

Billyum

Tragedy wrote: »

Billyum, did your friend have a travel card?

she did! iv told them this!! it wasnt "present" at the station

Tragedy

Billyum wrote: »

They were a student! they had a student card! but not a travel card! I just want to make clear!! both of us are students!

It shouldn't have sold you the two tickets without requiring two student travel cards and the ticket inspectors should have flagged the issue too.

I also don't see why it's your problem and not your friends. You had a student travel card, machine didn't ask for a second, and it's your friend and IR's problem thereafter.

Kristopherus

frozenfrozen wrote: »

As a 16 year old I had to pay 47 euro for a return ticket to dublin from limerick because I wasn't carrying a student card at the time, can I go and claim back the difference after the date or are they happy to stick with how it worked out for them?

OP if the person you bought the ticket for was also a student I see no problem with what you did and you should do as I said and claim your id was stolen and you can't be held accountable for what happened. If the person was not elegible to own a student card then you are the "prick" in this situation.

That advice is wrong. You are advising the OP to lie. Why that?:eek:

Victor

frozenfrozen wrote: »

Can you just tell them your student id card was lost/stolen and that you can not be held accountable for anything it was used for? and claim that it was the ticket inspectors fault for not properly identifying the user(s) of the card at the time.

Lying, fraud and/or perjury aren't good.

Billyum wrote: »

They were a student! they had a student card! but not a travel card! I just want to make clear!! both of us are students!

Billyum wrote: »

she did! iv told them this!! it wasnt "present" at the station

How do you reconcile those two statements?

Billyum

Victor wrote: »

Lying, fraud and/or perjury aren't good.

How do you reconcile those two statements?

The other passenger had a University ID card that day, they also have a student travel card but not with them at the station because it had expired with two weeks! as had mine! but IR allow a month for you to get a new one so they were both valid at the time, its just the other passenger didnt have their travel card with them!

Victor

You do realise that it all sounds very convenient?

Tragedy

Victor wrote: »

You do realise that it all sounds very convenient?

Why would it? Most students I know have a student travel card, in the OP he mentioned the tickets were bought in January. I have no idea if IR allow one months grace to get a new Travel Card, but what about his posts are convenient?

Billyum

Victor wrote: »

You do realise that it all sounds very convenient?

I dont understand what you mean Victor? which part is convenient? The part about forgetting the travel card?? the other passenger still has it for me to show to them, or the part about the months grace? I only know thats the case because the ticket inspector who allowed me onto the train pointed it out to me

MrJoeSoap

Here's the thing...

You've nothing to prove to anyone on this forum. Whether or not what you're saying is the absolute truth, a stretching of the truth or a fabrication is pretty much irrelevant to everyone on here. The main issues here are that you did not act when you initially received notification, you decided to ignore it. I know if it were me, I'd be straight onto them by phone, email, post and any other way possible to clear my name.

Instead, you've now waited and received a secondary notice mentioning prosecution and yet again you've hesitated and avoided the issue. To some people, myself included, that seems to indicate a possibility of guilt. The use of language like 'had a good laugh' and 'it happily sold' are defence mechanisms to sell your argument that don't really fly...

It's always easier to go onto a message board and call an organisation "pricks" rather than face up to the issue itself. Both you and your friend should be contacting Irish Rail to clear your name(s) straight away.

I'd be very interested to hear how this turns out.

BluntGuy

Moved to commuting and transport.

Honestly, that's prob not a good thread title. Just saying.

montreal2011

If the machine did not request you to enter both cards and the inspectors did not request proof which you could not present then I don't see what case they have on ye.

If ye had valid cards at the time, or two weeks out of date but within the month grace period, then send them a photocopy of each. If you renewed within the month grace period then send them also.

If ye did not get new cards, does that month grace period still apply? If not then it would seem that the fine might have to be paid . . .

foggy_lad

Billyum wrote: »

Irish Rail are tryin to fine me €120 quid!

Their problem is! I bought two student tickets with my student travel card last january, one for me and one for another passenger and apparently thats not allowed! I did think of this when buying them but i said if its wrong then either A) the machine wont sell them to me or the ticket inspector wont let us through. I bought the tickets together from the kiosk at the station and it happily sold them to me without prompting me that this was not allowed! not only that, the ticket inspectors checked my ticket and the other passengers ticket and asked for my travel card at the the station, they said! yeah thats fine, have a nice journey! Our tickets and my student car were checked again after we had to change trains by another inspector, here again he said, yes thats fine bla bla bla.....

Then three months later i get a letter to the effect "this was actually not ok and you owe us 120 quid"... i had a good laugh and ignored it but now iv another letter saying the going to prosecute me! lol:mad: if i dont pay within a week, do they actually pursue these things?????

I dont know about you but i think after having two inspectors checking the tickets and the machine selling me them in the first place that coming back 3 months later is bollocks. If the inspector had asked us to pay the full fair, or informed us we were doing wrong, the other passenger would have payed them. If inspectors are going to let people through without checking tickets properly then by right, they should shove their letter up there hole.....

Any similar experiences or thoughts?

By checking your ticket and allowing you to travel the agents of Irish rail have fully validated both tickets!

It would be the same as being told by some ticket checker that you could board and make a journey for free, you and your friend were allowed to travel by an authorised person so they can't come back months later and change their own rules!

corktina

big lesson here: 90% of advice given on boards is wrong....contact IE or pay the fine,you wont get anywhere argueing your case on here.

Rock of Gibraltar

Yeah this is simply a legal question so you need to talk to someone who knows what they're talking about, consumer protection law, and not a bunch of people who know the in's and out's of transport in Ireland.
If you're op is correct and you're being fined for Irish Rail selling you something, which is totally ridiculous, then if I were you i'd get onto the free legal aid people and see if you can get it thrown out.

Here is their website: http://www.flac.ie/

AlekSmart

Billyum wrote: »

They were a student! they had a student card! but not a travel card! I just want to make clear!! both of us are students!

May I ask the nature of your studies Billyum ?,as in,are you a seasoned Student Travelcard user ?

The same question for your accompanying friend..?

I find it illuminating to discern the breakdown of these types of Student Travel Discount "problems" as it may well point to a deeper deficiency in our entire educational process ?

goingnowhere

You broke the rules, you knew you were breaking the rules and after some close calls the nasty people in Irish Rail finally caught you. Totally legit cop you broke the rules and now you will be dragged kicking and screaming the pay up.

As AlexSmart says it is amazing the frequency of these issues and it does raise a question as to our education system.

The ticket system is audited and if multiple tickets are issued against the same ID number or multiple tickets for different journeys on same day you WILL be hearing from Irish Rail

Consumer law doesn't apply here, the OP broke the terms and conditions and therefore invalidated the contract of travel. Rail Safety Act applies as there was intent to defraud by not having the valid documentation for the ticket. The documentation is only required during the journey so purchase in advance without the ID card is allowed.

Tragedy

goingnowhere wrote: »

You broke the rules, you knew you were breaking the rules and after some close calls the nasty people in Irish Rail finally caught you. Totally legit cop you broke the rules and now you will be dragged kicking and screaming the pay up.

As AlexSmart says it is amazing the frequency of these issues and it does raise a question as to our education system.

The ticket system is audited and if multiple tickets are issued against the same ID number or multiple tickets for different journeys on same day you WILL be hearing from Irish Rail

Consumer law doesn't apply here, the OP broke the terms and conditions and therefore invalidated the contract of travel. Rail Safety Act applies as there was intent to defraud by not having the valid documentation for the ticket. The documentation is only required during the journey so purchase in advance without the ID card is allowed.

He had a student travel card for his own ticket, what terms and conditions did the OP break to invalidate his contract of travel?