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How much of Net Income should you pay towards Mortgage.
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Exactly you are living proof that if you want something you can make it work whatever the circumstances within reason of course.
A lot of people want an easy life as in very comfortable mortgage mediocre house I'm of the opinion that you should always try to push yourself to get the best and what you want yes your mortgage may be higher but you have the house you want and the encouragement to do better and get that better job or promotion etc instead of settling for comfortable.
If it's an easy life or not why do you care? what's a mediocre home?
It's not the bricks and mortar that make a home and there's a lot more to a home than having it planted in a foxrock cul de sac.
You could buy a "medicore" 4 bedroom house in the arse of tyrrelstown for nearly 800k
Is this good enough for you?
It's not "settling" if you're happy. it's not settleing when you can't sleep a wink at night because you can't afford your mortage anymore.
2006 is long gone.
meanwhile in the real world...
Obviously I hit a nerve not sure why in answering your statements
1)Why do I care I the answer is I don't I'm having a discussion on a subject someone has asked advice on people are suggesting a person on €120k should get a €200k mortgage the op can easily afford more you don't have to settle for less than you want because you don't push yourself that's my point
2)No it's not bricks and mortar that makes a home it's location and size not sure what you will get in Dublin for €200k like some people are suggesting
3)Secondly who's talking about an €800k house in tyrellstown the op is suggesting €350 and people keep trying to turn him off it0 -
Obviously I hit a nerve not sure why in answering your statements
No nerve hit with me, I've no debt.1)Why do I care I the answer is I don't I'm having a discussion on a subject someone has asked advice on people are suggesting a person on €120k should get a €200k mortgage the op can easily afford more you don't have to settle for less than you want because you don't push yourself that's my point
But why does paying less mean settling for less when the market is currently in free fall? paying more != always = getting more2)No it's not bricks and mortar that makes a home it's location and size not sure what you will get in Dublin for €200k like some people are suggesting
It's the people who live in it, you can get a fabulous 3 bedroom house in a lovely fairly recently built estate in clonsilla for example. but I'm not watching the whole of dublin so I don't know what else is out there right now but as it's a falling market one can wait awhile.3)Secondly who's talking about an €800k house in tyrellstown the op is suggesting €350 and people keep trying to turn him off it
your point was spent more, my point is you could have said the same thing and wasted 800k on a **** box in tyyrelstown. spending 800kl doesn't guarantee anything and nor does 350k you don't have to go out and spend the full limit a bank is willing to take a risk on. you don't have to settle for anything. people are not turning him off, there's always options and people are putting those options out there.
Are you selling a house? are you an EA? is there a specific reason you want him to spend 150k where he may not need to?0 -
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But why does paying less mean settling for less when the market is currently in free fall? paying more != always = getting more
Apart from some exceptions basic economics dictates that paying more gets you more eg Superquinn is more expensive than Aldi an Ipad is more expensive than a Motorolla Tab etc
People seem to have this idea that anything over €250k is not value a house for €350k or even €500k can still be value if it is bigger or has desirable features or in a great location fair enough €800k in Tryelstown or whatever you quoted is not value but that was in the boomIt's the people who live in it, you can get a fabulous 3 bedroom house in a lovely fairly recently built estate in clonsilla for example. but I'm not watching the whole of dublin so I don't know what else is out there right now but as it's a falling market one can wait awhile.
Its the people who live in it fair enough but its also the lifestyle it gives you eg bad neighbours anti social behaviour feeling uncomfortable going the shops by yourself and there are places like that so its not just the people who live in it.
You've just proved my point you pay for size and location you've just quoted a small house in a not so desirable location for €200kyour point was spent more.
My point is not spend more for the sake of spending but if you see a house you like and its going to cost you more but still within your means then by all means go for it.0 -
No he just bought a house for €350k plus so is trying to encourage others to do so so he feels a bit better
How do you know how much I bought my house for I was on here previosly saying how much I got approved for.
I don't need to make myself feel better I'm delighted with what I got and will never need to move in my lifetime I don't need people to agree with my decisions to be happy.
Why would I buy a house if I wasn't happy with the decision why would I give a rats what anyone else went out and bought0 -
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Join Date:Posts: 30614
Ok guys, lets chill- please be civil towards one another.0 -
Apart from some exceptions basic economics dictates that paying more gets you more eg Superquinn is more expensive than Aldi an Ipad is more expensive than a Motorolla Tab etc
But the food in aldi is of superior quallity in most cases?
Ipad's lock you into specific OS's etc. you're not getting more. But if having an apple badge is important to oneself then maybe you do or walking around with a superquinn bag is. but that's a different story.People seem to have this idea that anything over €250k is not value a house for €350k or even €500k can still be value if it is bigger or has desirable features or in a great location fair enough €800k in Tryelstown or whatever you quoted is not value but that was in the boom
People's whole perception of house prices is blurred because of the boom and this should exactly be the reason that the OP hold off and wait till things are more properly alligned. 350k might sound reasonable now for a house that was 800k but in reality the house may only be really worth aprox 90k or less.Its the people who live in it fair enough but its also the lifestyle it gives you eg bad neighbours anti social behaviour feeling uncomfortable going the shops by yourself and there are places like that so its not just the people who live in it.
Why does spending less mean leaving in anti-social areas? house prices in knocklyon were pretty simmilar to Tallaght but as far as neighbours and what not goes it's like living in two different worlds.
But spending more to live in a "nicer" area doesn't guarantee you anything a neighbour hood can change in less than a decade as the next generation grow up from very good to bad and visa versa. spending 150k extra isn't going to guarantee this i'm afraid.You've just proved my point you pay for size and location you've just quoted a small house in a not so desirable location for €200k
Since when is clonsilla not desirable? and how does one single house in an area prove a point? What area is so much better than clonsilla that is worth an extra 150k? I'm starting to think there might be some delusions of grandeur here
My point is not spend more for the sake of spending but if you see a house you like and its going to cost you more but still within your means then by all means go for it.
But what you consider within your means and what's really within your means e.g. taking into considerations items mentioned in this thread may not be living within your means.
It's only seems to be on property where anyone would advise someone to spend more than they have to. it seems bizarre to me.0 -
Thanks for all the replies. Have read through them all with interest.
People's whole perception of house prices is blurred because of the boom and this should exactly be the reason that the OP hold off and wait till things are more properly alligned. 350k might sound reasonable now for a house that was 800k but in reality the house may only be really worth aprox 90k or less.
As much as some people were in cloud cookoo when paying €800k for a house in Tyrellstown whoever thinks that 3/4 bed semi detached houses in decent areas of south county dublin will fall nearly 90% from peak have to be in cloud cookoo too!0 -
The Toffees wrote: »Thanks for all the replies. Have read through them all with interest.
As much as some people were in cloud cookoo when paying €800k for a house in Tyrellstown whoever thinks that 3/4 bed semi detached houses in decent areas of south county dublin will fall nearly 90% from peak have to be in cloud cookoo too!
i don't think anyone suggested a 90% drop in south dublin?
I didn't even suggest the house in tyrellstown will drop 90% I was suggesting what I think is a reasonable price for a host there.
if the avg ind wage is down to around 30-35k based on 3x salary you're looking at 90-105k.
This doesn't mean that's what's going to happen.
I don't know what's considered a "decent" area in south dublin apart from the big boys foxrock/blacrock/dalkey/kiliney. are you talking dundrum? rathfarnham? terenure? rathgar?
There's few places that are in reach.
We're two highly paid profesionals, but I know should I lose my job tomorrow. I shouldn't have a problem getting another job the problem is wages have dropped a huge amount demand for all jobs is gone through the roof and you just won't command the wages unless one is in a very specialised field. for most people this isn't the case.
when one is in the public sector and has job seciruty, I don't even know what's secure in there anymore with the talk of all the cuts?
All some people are saying is, don't be wreckless have a think about it.
You'll tend to find over the last few years on this forum people going go on buy a house are selling a house are an EA or have just landed themselves in a huge amount of debt to get the party back.
You have another group that want to see prices drop rock bottom.
Read all the advise see have a good think about it as said before you can't cover every eventuallity but you have a really great opportinuity not to land your familiy in a shed load a debt and live a comfortable life.
there's no rush.0 -
But the food in aldi is of superior quallity in most cases?
Ipad's lock you into specific OS's etc. you're not getting more. But if having an apple badge is important to oneself then maybe you do or walking around with a superquinn bag is. but that's a different story.
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So you're going to pick me up on that they were the first 2 examples that came to mind can be applied to anything a 1 carat diamond vs 2 bottom line is more sought after things command a higher pricehouse prices in knocklyon were pretty simmilar to Tallaght but as far as neighbours and what not goes it's like living in two different worlds.
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When were houses in Knocklyon the same as Tallaght there has always been a big differential in house prices in the 2 areas have you just made this upBut spending more to live in a "nicer" area doesn't guarantee you anything
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I take your point but it certainly increases your chances of a quiet life if you put an identical house in finglas and foxrock which is going to cost more and rightly so the cost of bricks and mortar has nothing to do with the value of a house surely you can understand that the same applies to all markets not just housing a product is worth what the buyer perceives it to be or how sought after it isSince when is clonsilla not desirable? and how does one single house in an area prove a point? What area is so much better than clonsilla that is worth an extra 150k? I'm starting to think there might be some delusions of grandeur here
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Really you think Clonsilla is one of the best places in Dublin to live I've nothing against the area but you could definitely list at least 10 places people would be willing to pay extra money for without even thinking
Delusions of Grandeur definitely not I'm as working class as can be but I'm willing to point out what others are afraid to and I'm not directing that at you by the way I've lived in nice and bad so I am talking from experience0 -
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So you're going to pick me up on that they were the first 2 examples that came to mind can be applied to anything a 1 carat diamond vs 2 bottom line is more sought after things command a higher price
Well they were the only examples you gave so there the only things I had to work with.When were houses in Knocklyon the same as Tallaght there has always been a big differential in house prices in the 2 areas have you just made this up
I can't give you an exact date but there was a number of occasions I checked and houses in the beverly area in knocklyon for example was commanding I think 370k.
A number of houses in the homelawns area roughly at the same time were commanding the same. I don't know what eithier command now.
Also Tallaght is a huge area you can't put up the price of a house in jobstown for example against a house in Old Bawn, in fact there was a time when Old Bawn was commanding higher prices than knocklyon.
I'm not sure why you would accuse me of making it up, I have nothing to gain from this point.I take your point but it certainly increases your chances of a quiet life if you put an identical house in finglas and foxrock which is going to cost more and rightly so the cost of bricks and mortar has nothing to do with the value of a house surely you can understand that the same applies to all markets not just housing a product is worth what the buyer perceives it to be or how sought after it is
Well mere mortals can't tend to afford the prices in foxrock. I imagine a huge % of middle class profesionals can't so putting foxrock up against finglas is rather silly in this case.
Generally yes something is worth what they're willing to pay. the problem is now is affordability, job losses huge over hang of houses. banks not lending etc there is far more factors at play rather than just someone will way.Really you think Clonsilla is one of the best places in Dublin to live I've nothing against the area but you could definitely list at least 10 places people would be willing to pay extra money for without even thinking
Why are you putting words in my mouth? I think it's a beautiful quiet area yes with schools good public transport train/lots of bus routes. shopping center's etc. Is there a specific problem you have with this area?Delusions of Grandeur definitely not I'm as working class as can be but I'm willing to point out what others are afraid to and I'm not directing that at you by the way I've lived in nice and bad so I am talking from experience
As have I lived on what would be regarded both sides of the tracks. There is some horrific places in what are regarded as "nice areas" parts of rathfarnham, in dun laoghire there's parts i wouldn;t bring up a dog.
There is ****e everywhere and 150k won't change it. 1.5 mil might give you a chance.0 -
There is ****e everywhere and 150k won't change it. 1.5 mil might give you a chance.
I don't think this is true. €150k is a huge amount of money now in a credit starved economy. The difference between a 200k home and a 350k home is enormous. (I'm talking about real prices, not silly aking prices).
The whole 3 x wages thing still works, its just 3 X average wage will buy somewhere up and coming, or in a new burb, and 3 X professional wage buys somewhere more established, central and leafy.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 30614
Regarding price falls in South County Dublin- we're currently at a little over 60% for houses, and over 80% for apartments (and there are hundreds of vacant apartments- look at Bernard McNamaras development in D4 alone as an example).
Prices in Dublin (and South Dublin in particular) increased far more and by a far higher percentage, during the boom, than elsewhere. They have also had the inverse- a far higher and steeper fall thus far, than elsewhere.
CSO commentaries on March suggest the stabilisation in prices is now a minor upward trend in South Dublin (apartments aside) countered by continuing falls, albeit not at as fast a speed, elsewhere.
Property prices outside the Pale have as yet not lost anything approaching the same percentages as Dublin prices- and also tend to be significantly larger- which will make next year's property tax a particularly contentious issue. Remember the previous property tax in the 70s was seen as a Dublin tax- as the houses were bigger there, and worth more. The inverse is now the case, after the developments of the last 2 decades. There will be civil war if its seen as unfairly imposed on larger homes faoin tuath, rather than shoeboxes in South Dublin co.co. etc.
Interesting times ahead.0 -
smccarrick wrote: »CSO commentaries on March suggest the stabilisation in prices is now a minor upward trend in South Dublin (apartments aside) countered by continuing falls, albeit not at as fast a speed, elsewhere.
I know you're only mentioning the commentaries from the CSO, but i think its important people recognise that one swallow doesnt make a summer. The level of transactions is so low that its only natural that the statistics will be skewed from time to time. This increase comes after the greatest monthly fall. The year on year fall was still huge. I think when we've seen 3/4 more months of the same can we even suggest that prices are stabilising.0 -
StillWaters wrote: »I don't think this is true. €150k is a huge amount of money now in a credit starved economy. The difference between a 200k home and a 350k home is enormous. (I'm talking about real prices, not silly aking prices).
The whole 3 x wages thing still works, its just 3 X average wage will buy somewhere up and coming, or in a new burb, and 3 X professional wage buys somewhere more established, central and leafy.
I'm referring to avoiding riff Raff.
Take stilorgan for example. Bray, shankill, loughlinstown, dumdrum dun laogihire.
There's parts of dun laoghire that make parts of tallaght look like foxrock
The 150k makes no guarantee for a quiet life.0 -
I know you're only mentioning the commentaries from the CSO, but i think its important people recognise that one swallow doesnt make a summer.
+1. The CSO figures are based on numbers for a quarter that only make up 14% of transactions considered to constitute a normal, functioning market!0 -
The Toffees wrote: »Myself and the wife are currently looking at houses at the moment. We have mortgage approval in principal for more than we intend to use. My question is what % of net income is the norm to spend on a mortgage.
It really depends on your lifestyle. Do you go on lots of expensive holidays , nights out, expensive cars etc. I would work out a detailed budget, allocate money for everything and see what you have left then. Also if you could buy somewhere with good public transport/within walking distance of work, it's worth paying more for a house if you can walk to work/get the luas with the money you would save in driving costs.
Have a look at here http://www.drcalculator.com/mortgage/ie/ and stress test yourself to 5/10% interest rates (not saying that is going to happen but it's worth knowing).
We are in similar position as yourselves and paying 30% of our joint income (while saving another 30% of our net income). Spend sensibly, budget and still have money for a couple of holidays a year and nights out etc (don't have any kids).
I would also think buying a house in the south Dublin area at the moment is a good idea if your looking at staying for 7/10 years.0
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