Irish Rail Web Sale

LXFlyer

Given all of the recent discussion on this topic, the notice below that I spotted this morning may well appeal to people:

http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_offers.jsp?i=4577&p=118&n=144&ci=4

From Monday 23rd April 2012, for 6 weeks Iarnród Éireann is offering single/ one-way fares only online from €9.99-19.99* all seats all trains available on irishrail.ie once purchased 3 or more days in advance. Terms and Conditions apply.
The following table illustrates the fares available only online during the sale;
*One-Way Seat Sale to/ from Dublin

Belfast, Nenagh, Rosslare or Waterford
Book 3+ Days in Advance €9.99
Book 1 or 2 Days in Advance €14.99
Book on Day of Travel €19.99

Ennis, Galway, Limerick, Mayo or Sligo
Book 3+ Days in Advance €14.99
Book 1 or 2 Days in Advance €19.99
Book on Day of Travel €29.99

Cork or Tralee
Book 3+ Days in Advance €19.99
Book 1 or 2 Days in Advance €29.99
Book on Day of Travel €39.99

**Children under 16 years - half the appropriate adult fare
Return fares will either be the sum of the two single/ one-way fares or the InterCity regular fare, whichever is cheaper.

Terms and Conditions

• Promotion will be available until 3rd June 2012
• All promotional fares exclude transaction and credit card fees
• Bookings only availble up to 28 days in advance
• Any extension of the promotion will be communicated
• Promotional fares are standard class only
• Promotional fares do not apply to First Class
• Only available on www.irishrail.ie or Lo Call 1850 366 222
• Promotion not available from the booking office
• Available both directions to/from Dublin (terminus of train)
• Luas Add (€1.60 each way) is only available by selecting “Dublin City Centre” as an origin/ destination when travelling to/ from Cork/ Ennis/ Galway/ Limerick/ Mayo/ Nenagh/ Tralee/ Waterford
• No service time restrictions apply
• No exclusion dates apply
• No quota limit per service
• Subject to availability online
• €10 Surcharge applies to customers travelling on services other than the times printed on the ticket except where; a customer has paid the InterCity regular fare or the maximum web single fare (listed above) has been paid for the journey
• Bookings close out 90 minutes before departure (subject to change without notice)
• All other normal online Terms & Conditions apply
• Where the regular single fare from intermediate stations on these routes to/ from Dublin is normally greater than the online promotional fares listed, the promotional fare will be applied.
• Where the regular single fare from intermediate stations on these routes to/ from Dublin is normally less than the online promotional fares listed, the lower regular fare will be applied.

LeftBlank

On the Cork route, the booking office single would be cheaper on the day of travel?

Seems like they might be experimenting with simplifying their online fares to bring it away from the yield based model slightly.

Lunaarli

I was going to book a rail fare Wed from Dublin to Athlone, it was €10 each way.. Just checked now it's fecking €15 each way!!!!

How can they do that! I checked and even booking very far in advance it's the same..

Bus Eireann and an extra four hour journey it is so..

highlydebased

suntottie wrote: »

I was going to book a rail fare Wed from Dublin to Athlone, it was €10 each way.. Just checked now it's fecking €15 each way!!!!

How can they do that! I checked and even booking very far in advance it's the same..

Bus Eireann and an extra four hour journey it is so..

There are only a certain amount of seats at 10 euro. Why didn't you book it while those seats were there?

cson

Are you going via Limerick or what? I mean you must not be going direct if its going to take 4hrs to get to Athlone from Dublin on the bus.

foggy_lad

suntottie wrote: »

I was going to book a rail fare Wed from Dublin to Athlone, it was €10 each way.. Just checked now it's fecking €15 each way!!!!

How can they do that! I checked and even booking very far in advance it's the same..

Bus Eireann and an extra four hour journey it is so..

It is probably because of their WEB SEAT SALE Which is most likely twaking up the quota of cheaper seats so all other cheap seats are raised in price to fund cheap seats on failing routes! http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_offers.jsp?i=4577

*One-Way Seat Sale to/ from Dublin
Book 3+ Days in Advance Book 1 or 2 Days in Advance Book on Day of Travel
Belfast, Nenagh, Rosslare or Waterford €9.99 €14.99 €19.99
Ennis, Galway, Limerick, Mayo or Sligo €14.99 €19.99 €29.99
Cork or Tralee €19.99 €29.99 €39.99

It appears they have removed all other cheaper fares on these routes and replaced them with these often higher sale prices! all athlone fares are now €14.99 for all trains while this sham is going on and the return fares are also dearer as they default to the normal booking office fares of €24.50 day return or €30 for an open return for which you MUST specify the time and date of your return at time of booking or face a €10 surcharge.

The bus is just as fast and still a lot cheaper!
http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1314893562-20.pdf
http://www.citylink.ie/index.php/routes-a-timetables/timetables/98

The same applies on the Carlow route with tickets online today costing €16 one way plus Fees and Charges of a few Eoro and the exact same ticket bought in the ticket office is only €16.

the online price also defaults to the normal return price for tickets bought in advance meaning no saving at all for passengers!

BenShermin

Have IÉ totally gotten rid of their "yield management" €10 single fares on the Dublin to Cork route as a result of this promotion? I've tried booking a few dates in mid-May and only the €19.99 fares are available.

If so that's me finished as an IÉ customer on that route, hello Aircoach/Go Bus.

foggy_lad

Already discussed here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2056615573

Clearly they have removed all the cheaper web fares and replaced them with their sale prices which means in many cases where a return is required it is cheaper to buy your ticket in the booking office!

highlydebased

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is probably because of their WEB SEAT SALE Which is most likely twaking up the quota of cheaper seats so all other cheap seats are raised in price to fund cheap seats on failing routes!

Ah will you go away out of that. Nonsense!

BenShermin

So before this "sale" I was able to get a Dublin to Cork return for €20, now the cheapest fare I can get is €39.98. Sale my arse!

dowlingm

foggy_lad wrote: »

the online price also defaults to the normal return price for tickets bought in advance meaning no saving at all for passengers!

To be fair, IE did say it was a ONE WAY sale, not a return sale.

I'll get me coat...

Lapin

suntottie wrote: »

Bus Eireann and an extra four hour journey it is so..

Hardly.

Also, the train is cheaper than the bus now over most of the Dublin - Galway route during midweek.

foggy_lad

Lapin wrote: »

Hardly.

Also, the train is cheaper than the bus now over most of the Dublin - Galway route during midweek.

Dont you mean the Bus is cheaper still? open return on most of the Galway route is now €30 plus €10 if you need to change your return time or date while the real Open return on the bus is usually less than €20 and you can travel on any service up to one month from the date of the outward journey.

Losty Dublin

BenShermin wrote: »

So before this "sale" I was able to get a Dublin to Cork return for €20, now the cheapest fare I can get is €39.98. Sale my arse!

Fair point though all fares on all services are now cheaper than their listed price rather than on the first come first served basis that would sell out fairly quickly. Overall, this is a good deal for the majority of passengers.

Hilly Bill

Are you on commission Foggy?

Sea Filly

BenShermin wrote: »

Have IÉ totally gotten rid of their "yield management" €10 single fares on the Dublin to Cork route as a result of this promotion? I've tried booking a few dates in mid-May and only the €19.99 fares are available.

If so that's me finished as an IÉ customer on that route, hello Aircoach/Go Bus.

Yup, me too, plus don't have to be booking a month in advance for the bus!

AlekSmart

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Are you on commission Foggy?

I doubt it Hilly Bill,but like poor oul Albert Einstein,he has a lot of time on his hands....:D

foggy_lad

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Fair point though all fares on all services are now cheaper than their listed price rather than on the first come first served basis that would sell out fairly quickly. Overall, this is a good deal for the majority of passengers.

Fares to intermediate stations are also set at the maximum even though before they were a lot cheaper so this is actually making it more expensive for most passengers rather than less!

Sale me arse! At least there are enough bus alternatives to put this sham of a company out of business!

xtradel

Would be nice to be able to check prices and book a seat.....looked up Galway-Limerick return for the 1st May and no prices available.

foggy_lad

xtradel wrote: »

Would be nice to be able to check prices and book a seat.....looked up Galway-Limerick return for the 1st May and no prices available.

It is not a proper intercity service so you can't buy online or book seats on the railcars.

xtradel

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is not a proper intercity service so you can't buy online or book seats on the railcars.

I know this is probably a really thick question....but why??? I know you cant reserve a seat on the commuters but why cant i buy a ticket online? All i want to do is take a spin down to limerick on the cheap but there's no way i'd risk going in to ceannt to get stung by some crazy fare!

Maybe its because of the roaring success of the wrc they dont need normal folk going on daytrips :rolleyes:

Cokeistan

The Aircoach for Cork - Dublin is about to get a hell of a lot more business me thinks

schemingbohemia

foggy_lad wrote: »

Fares to intermediate stations are also set at the maximum even though before they were a lot cheaper so this is actually making it more expensive for most passengers rather than less!

Sale me arse! At least there are enough bus alternatives to put this sham of a company out of business!

Sure why bother reading the T&C in the OP foggylad?

Where the regular single fare from intermediate stations on these routes to/ from Dublin is normally greater than the online promotional fares listed, the promotional fare will be applied.
Where the regular single fare from intermediate stations on these routes to/ from Dublin is normally less than the online promotional fares listed, the lower regular fare will be applied.

foggy_lad

xtradel wrote: »

I know this is probably a really thick question....but why??? I know you cant reserve a seat on the commuters but why cant i buy a ticket online? All i want to do is take a spin down to limerick on the cheap but there's no way i'd risk going in to ceannt to get stung by some crazy fare!

Maybe its because of the roaring success of the wrc they dont need normal folk going on daytrips :rolleyes:

Booking office fares are very often cheaper than online fares even when there is a web fare sale on! There are no credit card charges using the booking office. As for why, you should ask Barry kenny. Only intercity journeys can be booked or bought online, it may be a fraud prevention measure?

foggy_lad

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Sure why bother reading the T&C in the OP foggylad?

Where the regular single fare from intermediate stations on these routes to/ from Dublin is normally greater than the online promotional fares listed, the promotional fare will be applied.
Where the regular single fare from intermediate stations on these routes to/ from Dublin is normally less than the online promotional fares listed, the lower regular fare will be applied.

Carlow to Dublin booked in advance open online return costs €20 PLUS €3 fees and charges

Carlow to Dublin booking office walk up fare costs €20.50

These are repeated across the network

It's not rocket science

foggy_lad

http://irnirishrailwaynews.yuku.com/topic/2550/Irish-Rail-defends-unannounced-new-fares-structure#.T5lGt9nHm2Y

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/irish-rail-defends-unannounced-new-fares-structure-191659.html#ixzz1t3E7hAri

Irish Rail defends unannounced new fares structure

By Dan Buckley

Wednesday, April 25, 2012

The days of €20 return train fares between Cork and Dublin are gone.

Irish Rail has almost doubled its cheapest inter-city online fares and has also increased its standard charges, bringing the return fare from Dublin to Cork or Tralee to just two cent shy of €86, if transaction and credit card fees of up to €6 are included.

However, a greater number of fares for less than half that price will be available to book within three days of travel. Until now, passengers hoping to avail of €20 return fares had to book three weeks in advance and the number of cheap fares available was extremely limited.

The unannounced changes — which came into effect this week — will see a far greater number of cut-price fares available to book online. Online fares from Cork and Tralee will be €19.99 each way regardless of travel time, if booked online up to three days in advance of travelling.

A spokesman for Irish Rail yesterday defended the new fares structure, saying it would benefit more train travellers and offer better value overall.

"This will give far more people the chance of making use of cheaper fares," said Andrew Roche, the company’s business development manager. "Up to now, there were only a few selected times that cheaper fares applied to and that did not suit everyone. From now on, discounted online fares will apply to all travel times once they are booked up to three days in advance. That means that far more people will benefit."

One odd aspect of the new fare structure, however, is that some relatively short inter-city journeys will cost far more than others that take longer. Passengers on the Tralee-Cork-Dublin line will, for instance, pay relatively more than those on the Galway to Dublin or Waterford to Dublin lines.

The online fare from Waterford to Dublin-Heuston is now €9.99 each way, a journey that can take up to three-and-a-half hours. At the same time, the fare from Charleville to Dublin, which takes as little as two hours and two minutes, now costs more than double that figure, at €19.99 each way.

Similarly, fares from Limerick or Galway to Dublin, at €14.99, are far better value — mile for mile — than the fare from Thurles.

While the Galway journey takes almost three hours and at least two hours 15 minutes, the journey from Thurles is one hour less than that at 74 minutes, yet the fare is the same.

Passengers should also be aware they may be "fined" on board trains if they get on a train earlier than the one they have booked, even if the same fare applies.

One angry passenger complained to the Irish Examiner that, having booked an online fare of €19.99 from Dublin to Cork for a 3pm train journey last week, she had to pay a surcharge after getting on the 2pm train instead. "I managed to get to the station early, so I got on the earlier train, which was not full.

"The online fare for the 2pm train was exactly the same, yet I had to pay an extra €18 which I think is grossly unfair. In fact, it could have been worse as I was told by the inspector that I could have been ‘fined’ €100 for getting on the early train."

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/irish-rail-defends-unannounced-new-fares-structure-191659.html#ixzz1t9ROFmCb

mickydoomsux

Only our marketing department could manage to make the newspapers for running a "promo" that somehow makes ticket prices higher.

Not a brain between them.

I actually had to email them recently because they had printed some blurb about the recent student return promo on the last set of bank-holiday timetables. The original date for the end of the promo was the Friday before the bank holiday weekend so they had to change it.

This is what we're up against.

foggy_lad

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Only our marketing department could manage to make the newspapers for running a "promo" that somehow makes ticket prices higher.

Not a brain between them.

I actually had to email them recently because they had printed some blurb about the recent student return promo on the last set of bank-holiday timetables. The original date for the end of the promo was the Friday before the bank holiday weekend so they had to change it.

This is what we're up against.

I understand what they are doing or trying to do but they should really stop while at least some passengers remain loyal!!

Nobody actually benefits from this as they have removed all the cheaper seats from all routes and set a pricing structure which people will just not pay when the bus is so much more frequent and far cheaper!

They have greatly increased all their online prices yet call it a sale while to encourage online sales thay make the booking office fares several euros cheaper!

The Railway Children could have done a better job with a jotter, pencil and abacus.

bk

It is interesting that the price of intermediary like Charleville now cost more then longer distance intercity routes.

It seems that IR are trying to reduce the price of routes where they face competition from the new direct bus services, while pumping up the prices where they face no competition. Lovely!

Having said that it isn't a bad idea, if they can bring the normal price down to €43 and the speed down to at least 2 hours 30 minutes and even better 2 hours, then that would be reasonable and they might actually be able to compete with the new direct bus services.

BTW this pricing system was recommended by the consultants in the recent report into intercity travel. So it seems they are trialing it now. I assume in response to the extra competition.

However I think they need to be far more flexible on people changing their booking or taking earlier or later trains, only charging the price difference.

The bus companies are much more flexible about this IME, they seem to have no problem changing a booking to another day or time, and if you turn up early or late the drivers don't mind as long as there is space.

Also IR really need to drop the stupid booking fees. The bus companies don't require any booking fees for online booking.

Also IR need to drop the fee for carrying a bike, that is really a very nice advantage of the bus companies.

Isn't competition great

LXFlyer

It probably has far more to do with the recent appointment of a new Commercial Manager, who is from outside the company.

dowlingm

bk wrote: »

It seems that IR are trying to reduce the price of routes where they face competition from the new direct bus services, while pumping up the prices where they face no competition.

Welcome to capitalism and PD mandated competition.

This is interesting:
http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=APR330495

foggy_lad

dowlingm wrote: »

Welcome to capitalism and PD mandated competition.

This is interesting:
http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=APR330495

That could see the abolition of first class tavel and full meals being served.

bk

dowlingm wrote: »

Welcome to capitalism and PD mandated competition.

Well my reaction is different, simply open up those other places to private operators too.

foggy_lad wrote: »

That could see the abolition of first class tavel and full meals being served.

No harm, I'm not sure many people use it anyway.First class is a throw back to when second class was truly awful.

Does anyone really want to get a crappy hot meal on a train over getting to your destination quicker and having a meal in a nice restaurant?

Today it is better to offer a good high level, fast and affordable service to all customers.

dowlingm

bk wrote: »

Does anyone really want to get a crappy hot meal on a train over getting to your destination quicker and having a meal in a nice restaurant?

while I would prefer restaurant food, the fact that I get a hot breakfast and dinner on VIA Rail between Toronto and London/Kingston means I don't have to use up on site time etc. The leisure traveller makes a different calculation but for my firm my time is worth enough $ that they have paid for First the last eight years knowing they easily make that back even considering the much higher First prices over here (First also gets lower penalties for change of train which is important if a project duration has uncertainty in it). The First cars are often quite busy so plenty of other people make a similar call apparently.

foggy_lad

dowlingm wrote: »

while I would prefer restaurant food, the fact that I get a hot breakfast and dinner on VIA Rail between Toronto and London/Kingston means I don't have to use up on site time etc. The leisure traveller makes a different calculation but for my firm my time is worth enough $ that they have paid for First the last eight years knowing they easily make that back even considering the much higher First prices over here (First also gets lower penalties for change of train which is important if a project duration has uncertainty in it). The First cars are often quite busy so plenty of other people make a similar call apparently.

While I accept that many business people will be required to work with their laptops on the train and for this reason on our awful trains first class is their only option because of the lack of powerpoints on the other loco-hauled trains, on all the new trains there is power at every seat and the first class cars are exactly the same as the other cars so it would be wasteful for a company to pay big money in these cash-strapped times for a first class seat on services using the 22000's.

dowlingm

foggy - I kind of agree with you - as currently offered by IE First is a waste of money. For me, there should be two classes:

First -

• reasonable included food or light snack plus for pay extras,
• better legroom
• two dedicated staff for each First carriage to ensure prompt service selected from those with either Irish (esp Galway/Tralee routes) or foreign language proficiency
• either fold out or fixed table at all seats
• no-fee reservable seat
• total ticketing flexibility
• spotlessly clean lounge with dedicated bathrooms at all *terminal* stations served by First class trains with armchairs, workstations, snacks and papers
• priority boarding at stations with gated platforms.
• zero tolerance for messing of any sort and phones requested to be on silent/vibrate mode

The fare for First would have to rise a bit and the upgrade fee from Standard/Standard Plus would have to be commensurate with the actual fare difference rather than a loophole. (Why for instance there is a Student discount on First is beyond me)

Standard -

• for pay food only
• fee required for change of ticket
• fee required for reserved seat

There should also be a "Standard Plus" option which entitles you to change ticket and reserve seat for a combined/smaller fee which is what people who normally travel First could get on regional routes and people on a budget pay on trunk routes.

Finally, I would institute a frequent traveller scheme like VIA Rail's for which you get points based not on distance but on fares paid (70 Euro fare = 70 points) with bonuses for Standard Plus (10%) and First (25%). The points would be redeemable for tickets or upgrades to SP or First. This could also be a bonus for tourists - VIA Rail has a reciprocal arrangement with SNCF where points can be redeemed on each others services so with a similar agreement you could have French tourists arriving in Ireland with prebooked rail travel using SNCF points to get them around the country.

foggy_lad

dowlingm wrote: »

foggy - I kind of agree with you - as currently offered by IE First is a waste of money. For me, there should be two classes:

First -

• reasonable included food or light snack plus for pay extras,
• better legroom
• two dedicated staff for each First carriage to ensure prompt service selected from those with either Irish (esp Galway/Tralee routes) or foreign language proficiency
• either fold out or fixed table at all seats
• no-fee reservable seat
• total ticketing flexibility
• spotlessly clean lounge with dedicated bathrooms at all *terminal* stations served by First class trains with armchairs, workstations, snacks and papers
• priority boarding at stations with gated platforms.
• zero tolerance for messing of any sort and phones requested to be on silent/vibrate mode

The fare for First would have to rise a bit and the upgrade fee from Standard/Standard Plus would have to be commensurate with the actual fare difference rather than a loophole. (Why for instance there is a Student discount on First is beyond me)

Standard -

• for pay food only
• fee required for change of ticket
• fee required for reserved seat

There should also be a "Standard Plus" option which entitles you to change ticket and reserve seat for a combined/smaller fee which is what people who normally travel First could get on regional routes and people on a budget pay on trunk routes.

Finally, I would institute a frequent traveller scheme like VIA Rail's for which you get points based not on distance but on fares paid (70 Euro fare = 70 points) with bonuses for Standard Plus (10%) and First (25%). The points would be redeemable for tickets or upgrades to SP or First. This could also be a bonus for tourists - VIA Rail has a reciprocal arrangement with SNCF where points can be redeemed on each others services so with a similar agreement you could have French tourists arriving in Ireland with prebooked rail travel using SNCF points to get them around the country.

That will never work here now because the 22000's are built and the carriages all have the same seats etc so to slap on a first class car would be impossible! loco-hauled passenger trains are being phased out by Irish Rail as far as I can see and it also appears that standard class passengers are subsidising first class accommodation on most journeys due to the extra cost of staff serving the first class car and dining car.

Take an average Dublin-Cork train with maybe 30 passengers in each carriage while only a few pay the extra for first class maybe 10. Those 10 pay €120 return each except some will only be paying the upgrade to first class because they have free travel. now set this against the level of service for first class and the cost of providing a first class service and compare it to the 210 other people with little or no service from staff but who are paying almost as much for a return journey. normal standard class passengers are subsidising first class!

bk

dowlingm wrote: »

Standard -

• for pay food only
• fee required for change of ticket
• fee required for reserved seat

All already exist, you pay for your food, your pay if you change your ticket and you have to pay to reserve a seat and book online, in fact you have no choice to reserve a seat and pay if you book online.

dowlingm wrote: »

There should also be a "Standard Plus" option which entitles you to change ticket and reserve seat for a combined/smaller fee which is what people who normally travel First could get on regional routes and people on a budget pay on trunk routes.

To be honest, won't work due to the far cheaper and more flexible options available on the new direct luxury bus coach services. A standard reserved seat costs €80 to Cork, with a fee if you change it. The coach costs €22 with almost total flexibility with which time you travel.

To be honest IR will have to go the opposite way to compete. Get rid of both the online booking and seat reservation fees and become more flexible about changing tickets for standard class.

First class is a total waste of money, it can go two ways scrap it or improve it. To be honest I don't think their is little demand for an improved first class service in Ireland. Times are tight in Ireland and few companies are willing to pay out extra for their employees travel anymore.

Like the idea of travel points, Bus Eireann do something like that with BE Club.

dowlingm

foggy: Obviously some of the changes above would require equipment refits. However, it wouldn't all have to happen overnight. Furthermore, most of the suggestions would either only require operational/staffing changes or would affect station buildings. The 22Ks are built, yes, but IE seem to break a 1st class set every so often (22037, now 22033) so it's not like opportunities to yank one from service for a quick internal refit are non-existent. I've only been in Standard on a Mark 4 and it was a little while back but from what I recall Mark 4 seats don't line up with the windows - perhaps a refit in First would give an opportunity to give a more sympathetic internal layout. Given the less than strenuous utilisation of the Mark 4s I think it's possible to do a rolling refit, and I believe your assertion that loco haul is simply going away to be a figment of your ample imagination. The de Dietrichs are due for total refit anyway but NIR parsimony will likely get in the way of any great strides there.

bk: like foggy you seem to subscribe to the school of "I would never use it so no-one else ever would". IE obviously aren't so sure, hence the market segmentation tender. You also seem to have fallen victim to the disapproving finger wag of Angela Merkel that the Irish were enjoying themselves too much and deserve only porridge and sackcloth henceforth. While there are many businesses which likely cannot afford to pay for first class travel, there are still a few businesses in Ireland not completely flat on their face and a few individuals of sufficient net worth to want a bit of comfort in leisure travel (I have had a few as seatmates in VIA1). As I said in my previous post, some people aren't buying First class for price reasons but others aren't because the current offering simply isn't a good enough product (I wouldn't, if I lived and worked in Ireland at the moment). Many of those people will choose their comfortable car and eschew public transport completely, since even Aircoach can't offer door to door service if your door isn't Westmoreland St or Dublin Airport.

The notion that IE must become a bus on rails and nothing more is the same mantra that broke Aer Lingus as a brand. At a time when Irish people had more and more to spend, Aer Lingus panicked at the O'Leary PR machine and threw the baby out with the bathwater - a guy I know from London and travels frequently posted this on his 2,000 Twitter followers a couple of weeks ago: "Ireland's great but cold day in hell before #AerLingus sees yours truly again".

Aer Lingus Premier was a bit like IE Premier - it had a nice name but if you compared it to Business (never mind First) in other airlines it paled by comparison. Now even small regional airlines like Flybe are heading back in the opposite direction by segmenting fares and adding frills. The notion that terminal facilities aren't important is exploded by a carrier like Porter Airlines (based in Toronto) which has built a lucrative brand on quiet lounges with espresso machines and coffee rather than the banging and clattering of the main terminal.

You can call Aircoach "luxury coach" all you want, and it certainly beats the hell out of the buses of my youth, but for some a bus is a bus is a bus. You can also assert that Aircoach would serve places like Thurles, Mallow and Charleville if only they were given the routes but the reality is that the introduction of the express has led to a net cut in stopping service, so we'll have to see what happens in phase 2 to see if Aircoach really has a commitment to anything other than a city-city service. As I said before I think Aircoach deserves to have success and I may use it again (but not from Westmoreland St) but to go on a rampage and write off the entire intercity network on the strength of a private company whose parent is wobbly on its feet is, in my view, unwise.

Finally, for clarity, I listed what Standard *would* offer not what it offers now simply to point up the fact I believe there should be a very obvious distinction that First gets you more than a lick of paint and a nicer looking seat cover.

foggy_lad

I can't see it myself but my vision is possibly coloured by the incompetence and ineptitude evident in most areas of the IE operation usually spreading from Management down the line.

Passengers must be at the station 20 minutes before departure is all well and good but that time should be added to the overall journey time!

The facts are that IE have their age old terms and conditions which they will twist and turn at any opportunity to deny all responsibility for their own screw-ups.

they have a reservations system which they charge for but it does not work, they have brand new trains which have faulty power sockets as well as faulty smoke detectors in the toilets as well as other flaws with the passenger information displays not working either because they are broken or the staff are unable to use them properly.

Speed restrictions have been in place for years all the way through the richest period our country has ever experienced yet IE have completly failed to protect or enhance the infrastructure that they have been left in charge of, in fact they are now crying that they will need an extra 50million per year for god only knows how long to remove a few miles of these restrictions per year, they are like a money sponge only when they get squeezed nothing comes out!

Spending even more money on this awful company and giving its incompetent management and CIE any more money is likely to seriously annoy the Germans who are bankrolling us for the forseeable future!

Ireland has one line that could possibly sustain a first class service but let the folks in NIR pay for it if they want it! why should standard class passengers subsidise forst class services they don't use don't want and don't see any need for?