Faking a Reference

maamom

I really need a job this summer. Only problem is I've no experience and it is proving a major stumbling block. Therefore I am seriously considering faking a job/reference. Is there any way the potential employer could check if I was actually employed, i.e P45.

the_syco

They could could ring the reference and check?

maamom

I have that part already sorted.

Mr. Loverman

It is generally easy to spot fake references. If your "employment" was last year there will be no P45 for your new employer.

maamom

Thanks that's good to know Mr. Loverman. In what way would it be easy to spot. I wouldn't do it only I'm really desperate at the moment.

Graciefacey

I understand that you're desperate but its a pretty dumb thing to do. I'm not going to go into moral affairs but its dishonest. Also you happen to have a fake p45 with this fake employers details?

maamom

I was thinking of saying I worked last year so P45's wouldn't be an issue.

Graciefacey

maamom wrote: »

I was thinking of saying I worked last year so P45's wouldn't be an issue.

*facepalm*

I get the feeling you're just going to do it regardless of the advice you get on here but its just not a very decent thing to do and karma bites everyone on the backside!

maamom

Graciefacey wrote: »

*facepalm*

I get the feeling you're just going to do it regardless of the advice you get on here but its just not a very decent thing to do and karma bites everyone on the backside!

No I wasn't otherwise I wouldn't have posted here but Mr.Loverman's post makes it seem like there is no way of telling so long as the "employment" was last year so at this point it is something I would do.

So I would appreciate if you could stop looking down on me. I know it is not an honest thing to do and it is not something I want to do but I've tried doing things the decent way and I am getting nowhere. I am continually told I don't have the experience but how can I get the experience if no one will employ me in the first place. It really is a vicious cycle.

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

i say go for it, especially if it's just a Summer job. All these jobs are about getting your foot in the door, then you're grand.

seamus

Typical way to spot fake references is to ring the general reception number for the company given and ask for Mr Bloggs.

Graciefacey

I'm absolutely not looking down my nose at anyone Im simply pointing out what will happen if the employer finds out or if your reference trips up. Honesty is always the best policy

ABajaninCork

Don't do it!! Yes, we're all desperate, but no way should you fake either your experience OR your references.

Let's say you fake the reference. Employer takes you on. Great. Then they find that you've faked your references. There's a very good chance you'll be fired straight away. AND without references. How would that look?

We all have to start somewhere. Build your CV right, and there'll be no need to fake.

regress

Most employers don't bother with written references as they are too often fake. Standard procedure is to ring last two employers. Anything before that you will likely get away with lying about. Similarly general educational qualifications are rarely checked.

Jim2007

maamom wrote: »

I really need a job this summer. Only problem is I've no experience and it is proving a major stumbling block. Therefore I am seriously considering faking a job/reference. Is there any way the potential employer could check if I was actually employed, i.e P45.

Will not become obvious to your future employer that you don't have the required experience once you start on the job??? Most jobs have some tricks and techniques about them, which you are supposed to know if you are claiming to have experience???

cgpg5

Well, for example, if you are applying for a job in a restaurant and say you have experience, and then are hired you could well be thrown in at the deep end assuming that you are a capable waiter and given no training. It won't look great if you are incapable of carrying out tasks that anyone with experience in the job could do easily.

Denerick

Graciefacey wrote: »

*facepalm*

I get the feeling you're just going to do it regardless of the advice you get on here but its just not a very decent thing to do and karma bites everyone on the backside!

OP, don't listen to this kind of earnestness and negativity.

You need a job. You can probably do the job. Who is getting hurt here? Managers have waaaaay too much power in Ireland because of their ability to give a positive or negative reference. Just pretend that your job was cash in hand - hence there was no paperwork involved. They can never dis-prove this.

Graciefacey

Denerick wrote: »

Graciefacey wrote: »

*facepalm*

I get the feeling you're just going to do it regardless of the advice you get on here but its just not a very decent thing to do and karma bites everyone on the backside!

OP, don't listen to this kind of earnestness and negativity.

You need a job. You can probably do the job. Who is getting hurt here? Managers have waaaaay too much power in Ireland because of their ability to give a positive or negative reference. Just pretend that your job was cash in hand - hence there was no paperwork involved. They can never dis-prove this.

I'm not being negative, a job should be gained on your own merits and not on lies which is what this is.

Denerick

Graciefacey wrote: »

I'm not being negative, a job should be gained on your own merits and not on lies which is what this is.

You clearly haven't spent much time in the modern labour market so. Applying for jobs, and doing interviews is a process of codified BS where you exaggerate how talented you are and try to pretend that you will be indispensable to the organisation you wish to work for. Call me cynical, but most people are mediocre, and like most people we all have to lie and exaggerate in order to get ahead in life.

This is a great courtship where one party expects you to lie to them (Because no recruiter is so naive as to believe that an interviewee will be completely honest with them) and the other party assumes that they have to lie in order to get the job.

Thats why there are so many funny tv shows and films about mundane office based environments.

Graciefacey

Denerick wrote: »

Graciefacey wrote: »

I'm not being negative, a job should be gained on your own merits and not on lies which is what this is.

You clearly haven't spent much time in the modern labour market so. Applying for jobs, and doing interviews is a process of codified BS where you exaggerate how talented you are and try to pretend that you will be indispensable to the organisation you wish to work for. Call me cynical, but most people are mediocre, and like most people we all have to lie and exaggerate in order to get ahead in life.

This is a great courtship where one party expects you to lie to them (Because no recruiter is so naive as to believe that an interviewee will be completely honest with them) and the other party assumes that they have to lie in order to get the job.

Thats why there are so many funny tv shows and films about mundane office based environments.

Sure!!!

Denerick

Graciefacey wrote: »

Sure!!!

The only thing that differentiates the person earned 25k per year in an office and the person earning 50k is that one of those people has a better capacity to bull**** people.

Graciefacey

Oh please! I'd rather live my life honestly working my way up and going home happy every night rather than being false and deceitful. Fools gold

Mrs OBumble

Denerick wrote: »

The only thing that differentiates the person earned 25k per year in an office and the person earning 50k is that one of those people has a better capacity to bull**** people.

MOD NOTE: Folks ... let's cool it down a bit. That statement is blatently untrue, and perhaps on the brink of being offensive to some.
/moderation


OP IMHO, don't be trying it for a professional job: if you claim that you can program in Java, are an expert in an accounting package etc, you will most probably get caught out, and this could negatively affect your future, as the employer will have to fire you if they don't trust you.

Also be aware that in some roles, it could be considered to be fraud.

That said, I guess you're applying for minimum wage summer work, not a professional position. If you're bright, and can manage to get on with your colleagues, you will get away with a fake CV for that sort of job. Lines like "we did it differently in my last place, can you show me how you record orders here" will work wonders, as will careful observation of how your colleagues do stuff. Working in a shop or fast-food or a pub isn't rocket science. And an employer will know that if you're young, you probably won't have had a lot of experience with doing complicated stock-returns or equipment maintenance or refusing groups of drunks - it's unlikely you'll be left alone in a difficult situation just 'cos of what your CV says.

Denerick

JustMary wrote: »

MOD NOTE: Folks ... let's cool it down a bit. That statement is blatently untrue, and perhaps on the brink of being offensive to some.
/moderation

Its not untrue, I can tell you from personal experience. Its an opinion, not a fact. Anyway, please carry on, didn't mean to offend anyone, just trying to reassure the OP that he needn't get too worried about the ethics of the interview, its mostly politics and the sooner he figures that out the sooner he will get ahead in life.

Mr. Loverman

Graciefacey wrote: »

Honesty is always the best policy

I strongly disagree.

Half-truths and political spin are always the best policy. Unfortunately.

Mark200

Denerick wrote: »

Graciefacey wrote: »

I'm not being negative, a job should be gained on your own merits and not on lies which is what this is.

You clearly haven't spent much time in the modern labour market so. Applying for jobs, and doing interviews is a process of codified BS where you exaggerate how talented you are and try to pretend that you will be indispensable to the organisation you wish to work for. Call me cynical, but most people are mediocre, and like most people we all have to lie and exaggerate in order to get ahead in life.

This is a great courtship where one party expects you to lie to them (Because no recruiter is so naive as to believe that an interviewee will be completely honest with them) and the other party assumes that they have to lie in order to get the job.

Thats why there are so many funny tv shows and films about mundane office based environments.

The person who gets hurt is the person who really does have experience and didn't lie.

And your line about the difference between a 25k employee and 50k employee is just simply untrue in my experience.

Rossin

Come on now does nobody know managers earning rediculous money that clearly winged it to get into that position!

I had an interview 2 weeks ago for a management position, I could have easily lied and said I had management experience and im pretty sure I wouldve got the job. My references wouldve backed me up as well. I didnt bother as I was only doing the interview for practice, but it showed me how easily you can land up in management without any experience in it.

I've worked under managers that were clearly useless at their job, I doubt very much they got there through honesty!

I'm lucky that I dont have to lie, but if i was as stuck the op sounds for work then I would have no hesitation in doing anything I can to get work

IRL_Sinister

Nobody cares about references for an unskilled summer job anyway.

Don't bother. If the employer finds out you're going to be screwed. You're risking getting a job at all by faking a reference. A reference won't get you an interview.

the_syco

The reference:
"Mr Joe Bloggs, 123 Fake Street. I did lots of shelf stacking."

Possible employer rings up the number on you CV, which happens to be your mates number. They ask for the Easter Bunny, your friend says that's him, and the game is up.

Dr Brown

Graciefacey wrote: »

I'm absolutely not looking down my nose at anyone Im simply pointing out what will happen if the employer finds out or if your reference trips up. Honesty is always the best policy

Honesty is NOT the best policy.

Many a job I only got because I had to pretend I had previous experience otherwise I would not have got the jobs.

TallGlass

Gotta love this site sometimes. Bullets flying around here like no tomorrow.

Listen, just don't do it. Blatantly lying on a CV is just not on, exaggerate or be very story telling in an interview but I wouldn't fake a reference.

Anyway, no one has offered you a solution.

Let me give you one, go out there and do some volunteering, once a week until summer that will give you a decent reference. Do it in something your interested in or maybe not.

Foweva Awone

Six years later, he's probably sorted one way or another.

utyh2ikcq9z76b

The game has not changed in 6 years, do you what you have to do, they don't call it a rat race for nothing!

Also use soft words like 'fluffed my CV up a tad' , instead of 'wrote a load of ****e in it'

Dr Brown

TallGlass wrote: »

Gotta love this site sometimes. Bullets flying around here like no tomorrow.

Listen, just don't do it. Blatantly lying on a CV is just not on, exaggerate or be very story telling in an interview but I wouldn't fake a reference.

Anyway, no one has offered you a solution.

Let me give you one, go out there and do some volunteering, once a week until summer that will give you a decent reference. Do it in something your interested in or maybe not.

I actually lost out on a very good job one time because I only had one good reference but needed two.

If I had of made up a reference I would of got the job.

All these years later if I'm still gutted I didn't get my friend to act as a "reference".

gozunda

As to those that think that not providing a P45 will catch the OP out - facts are some employers who never bother their rear end to give these to their ex employees. Yes it is a 'requirement' in employment law - however if a company doesn't comply - there are no sanctions or authority to force them to do so.

Stheno

Mod: six year old thread.

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