The myth of man uniteds squad . . .

Drumpot

I read this alot about the man united team being poor and this and that, even from our own fans, but I have to say if this united team is poor it doesn't say much for the EPL or indeed world football.

This squad won the league and was in the champions league final last year and got beaten by a team that is recognised by many as the greatest team of all time. Indeed it's mainly been this team that has stopped united winning a couple more champions leagues in the last 4 years.

This season I believe united have a stronger squad then we had last season. United hit the ground running with a cleverly/Anderson cm partnership only for that to be cut short by savage injuries. Couple that with Long term injuries to vidic, Valencia, fletcher, hernandez (who still hasnt full fitness) coupled with regular knocks to rio, park,smalling, jones and nani have stretched uniteds squad many times this season (one game we missed 13 registered first team players and 11 in next game.

When Vincent kompany and yaya toure were missing from city there was a huge fuss made about their absence, I can't really see how this was such big news tbh considering the lack of airtime uniteds injury list has gotten! (at times Rooney in cm and Carick in defence).

I am very confident of this squad and think we are one or two players short from yet another period of domination. Since the early 00s rival fans have been crossing their fingers and writing united off constantly, praying more then believing that uniteds period of success is over. The average age of uniteds team at the start of the season was 23, before injuries put pay to players being introduced to the team. De Gea , jones, cleverly, young and Wellbeck were all new squad additions and were all starting. Bringing back scholes was inspirational and helped a very young squad get a bit more experience when it needed it most. How some people think its desperation is laughable as scholes would walk onto most teams in the world and age counts for nothing if you still have it!

I am not saying this is one of the greatest united starting teams ever, but for me it's one if the greatest squads. Our players are better (particularly playing together as a team) then most people give them credit. To mock this team is to make the money king kenny, Mancini and co have spent look all the more shockingly poor management.

To united fans who believe the sh*t that this united team aren't that good, just ask any other fan of the epl if they would swap places with united in the league. That will quickly answer any debate that starts from a rival fan of how bad this united team is.

hots

Compare position to position with the '99 team, I'd be surprised if 2 or 3 current players make it in that team?

adox

The squad is most likely the strongest in the league. The strongest starting 11 most definitely isn't.

The main reason Utd are sitting top at the moment is the 12 th man and I'm not talking about a ref.

I seriously don't think they would be top without Fergie at the helm.

amiable

adox wrote: »

The squad is most likely the strongest in the league. The strongest starting 11 most definitely isn't.

The main reason Utd are sitting top at the moment is the 12 th man and I'm not talking about a ref.

I seriously don't think they would be top without Fergie at the helm.

The winning habit around the squad helps too

Mushy

hobbit of the shire wrote: »

Compare position to position with the '99 team, I'd be surprised if 2 or 3 current players make it in that team?

2 current players to make it in the '99 squad....Ryan Giggs and Paul Scholes.

Poor squads don't win leagues(not that it's been won yet), but poor squads certainly don't lose 1 match out of 13/14.

Drumpot

hobbit of the shire wrote: »

Compare position to position with the '99 team, I'd be surprised if 2 or 3 current players make it in that team?

Vidic, evra, carrick, Rooney and fletcher are all integral part of united winning 5 epls, 3 champo league final appearances and one cl win. I'm not saying they are all superior to what we had in the 90s but that's not a bad record for a suposedly inferior bunch of lads!

I also think a fit hernandez Rooney frontline is more talented then yorke/cole (although their partnership made them better players so that's debatable. I would say Valencia is a better player then becks and Giggs/ scholes still play. So you might have irwin, vidic, staam, Neville,Valencia, scholes,keane,Giggs, Rooney, Hernandez. With last seasons top epl scorer on the bench, Not that bad!

And there definitely wasnt a team as good as this barca back then!

kitakyushu

ManU are top of the league so clearly they have quality. Tho if you look at their players on paper it's hardly inspiring. Turfed out of Europe at the group stages and embarrased by the the likes of Bilbao suggest United don't have strength in depth and are receding as a team rather than closing in on the likes of Real and Barca.

Man City clearly have management and personnel issues and I question their attitude and desire to win also. However at their best and if they had put in a solid season I've no doubt they'd already be league champions now.

With United looking good for another title most of the credit goes to Fergie imho in getting the most out of players who individually haven't exactly wowed me thusfar.

Sgt Pepper 64

I agree, its a poor squad and them and that imposter Fergie should be thrown out of the league on their behinds IMMEDIATELY!

ROCKMAN

OK Yes we are league champions and we got to the champions league final .
But in that final we were outplayed ,outclassed etc etc etc .... Barca where in the showers thinking of getting laid as we where still jumping the last .and if we use Europe as the standard we didn't even get to the knockout stages this year .
As for this years league, Our performance in general have been piss poor par 5/6 games at the start of the season you would struggle to remember more than 3/4 good performances never mind top class. Now yes we still got the results and football is all about the results but for me the standard and level of football we have played this season has been well below par. So yes I really think this is one of the weakest teams/squads we have seen over the last few years .

PhlegmyMoses

Barcelona are the best team possibly ever. Being outclassed by them =/= not being a very team\squad.

ROCKMAN

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Barcelona are the best team possibly ever. Being outclassed by them =/= not being a very team\squad.

True..And alot of other top[ class teams have fallen short too.
but if you mention or use last year champion league performance as prove of achievement and level of standard then the result and manner of defeat in that final and the results from the same competition this year have to be look at and considered.

Drumpot

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Barcelona are the best team possibly ever. Being outclassed by them =/= not being a very team\squad.

Exactly. I wouldn't bet my house that united of 99 (that was losing the final with nothing left on the clock) would beat this barca team! I actually thought the united team the next season was stronger (got sucker punched by Madrid!).

But that aside, my post is about the squad and the fact that the individuals are better as a unit then by how they are being judged individually.

People are also confusing exciting football with effective football. In 99 who can forget united v inter? We mugged them! How they didn't win that was like the recent Chelsea v barca! Also against juve we were dead and buried only we threw caution to the wind and they folded! That was a magical year for any united fan but I think we confuse fond memories with team effectiveness.

Bodhisopha

It's a relatively poor squad and says a lot about the EPL right now. Not sure what it says for world football as United have been shamed in Europe this season and last seasons final for that matter having arrived there via one of the easiest routes to the final i have ever seen.

It's all down to Fergie and his ability to get his team up and winning games they really should win, he's a master at that. Can't stand him but i continue to be in awe of his management skills on the domestic front.

Drumpot

ROCKMAN wrote: »

True..And alot of other top[ class teams have fallen short too.
but if you mention or use last year champion league performance as prove of achievement and level of standard then the result and manner of defeat in that final and the results from the same competition this year have to be look at and considered.

What top team has outplayed that barca team?

They beat Madrid 5-1 yet I don't hear even the Madrid fans call their team the worst Madrid ever and they didn't even sack Jose. They've sacked del bosque for only winning the cl !

Nobody is saying this united team is perfect, just that they aren't as bad as they are being made out to be.

G.K.

United's squad is excellent. Excellent for winning the EPL - it seems Fergie's been fine-tuning it for that pupose.

I've argued that City's squad is stronger and I believe it would be in other top European leagues, especially La Liga where the pressing you'll find from many teams would affect United more than City, at this stage.

However, United only have 2 trouble areas - CM and LB (And possibly a backup wingers, I don't rate Young as much as others do and Park is visibly in decline). Sort them out and it's looking fierce. But as it is Scholes is the best CM by a distance, possibly the only top class one, and Fabio's going out on loan leaving Evra for LB (I pity you all).

As I see it 3/4 players would be needed. A CM in the Martinez mould, a CM in the Scholes mould, a CM in the Xhaka mould if Anderson leaves, and someone like Jeremy Mathieu who can play LB or LW and is at the peak of thier career, ready for Fabio to be integrated in in a year or so. Maybe even get Mathieu on a year's loan.

So while the squad's not shocking, there are definite areas for improvement.

Sgt Pepper 64

G.K. wrote: »

United's squad is excellent. Excellent for winning the EPL - it seems Fergie's been fine-tuning it for that pupose.

I've argued that City's squad is stronger and I believe it would be in other top European leagues, especially La Liga where the pressing you'll find from many teams would affect United more than City, at this stage.

However, United only have 2 trouble areas - CM and LB (And possibly a backup wingers, I don't rate Young as much as others do and Park is visibly in decline). Sort them out and it's looking fierce. But as it is Scholes is the best CM by a distance, possibly the only top class one, and Fabio's going out on loan leaving Evra for LB (I pity you all).

As I see it 3/4 players would be needed. A CM in the Martinez mould, a CM in the Scholes mould, a CM in the Xhaka mould if Anderson leaves, and someone like Jeremy Mathieu who can play LB or LW.

Youve actually been watching Axel Witsel (CM) and Nicolas Gaitain (Winger)

Drumpot

Bodhisopha wrote: »

It's a relatively poor squad and says a lot about the EPL right now. Not sure what it says for world football as United have been shamed in Europe this season and last seasons final for that matter having arrived there via one of the easiest routes to the final i have ever seen.

It's all down to Fergie and his ability to get his team up and winning games they really should win, he's a master at that. Can't stand him but i continue to be in awe of his management skills on the domestic front.

So you think their European performances are what define them? Basel, benfica would top the epl? Or did united just chop and change their team too much? (fergie admitted it himself, playing Rooney in central midfield!).

That's a pretty lame argument. Uniteds European expoits were simply a blip and the easy group they got simply confirms it (unless again you think benfica and Basel would be uP there with spurs, arsenal and city?)

And uniteds squad is stronger then last season. Suppose, maybe barca are just an average team playing in a sh"t time of football!

ROCKMAN

Drumpot wrote: »

What top team has outplayed that barca team?They beat Madrid 5-1 yet I don't hear even the Madrid fans call their team the worst Madrid ever and they didn't even sack Jose. They've sacked del bosque for only winning the cl !

Nobody is saying this united team is perfect, just that they aren't as bad as they are being made out to be.

Read post again ,meant the other way ,A lot of other top teams have fallen short too..

G.K.

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Youve actually been watching Axel Witsel (CM) and Nicolas Gaitain (Winger)

What?

Richard Hillman

Its hard for this team considering United had their best team ever just 4 years ago. This team are absolutely pants compared to when United had Ronaldo, Tevez and Rooney up front and an unbelievable defense but so are every other United team compared to the 08 team. In terms of the defence, they are near enough the same players but their performance level is nowhere near that of 4 years ago. The current team is a very good team but are very unlucky to come after what was United's greatest side.

The_Kew_Tour

G.K. wrote: »

United's squad is excellent. Excellent for winning the EPL - it seems Fergie's been fine-tuning it for that pupose.

I've argued that City's squad is stronger and I believe it would be in other top European leagues, especially La Liga where the pressing you'll find from many teams would affect United more than City, at this stage.

However, United only have 2 trouble areas - CM and LB (And possibly a backup wingers, I don't rate Young as much as others do and Park is visibly in decline). Sort them out and it's looking fierce. But as it is Scholes is the best CM by a distance, possibly the only top class one, and Fabio's going out on loan leaving Evra for LB (I pity you all).

As I see it 3/4 players would be needed. A CM in the Martinez mould, a CM in the Scholes mould, a CM in the Xhaka mould if Anderson leaves, and someone like Jeremy Mathieu who can play LB or LW and is at the peak of thier career, ready for Fabio to be integrated in in a year or so. Maybe even get Mathieu on a year's loan.

So while the squad's not shocking, there are definite areas for improvement.

This is one of best posts I have read about United in long time.

Spot on lad.

Bodhisopha

Drumpot wrote: »

So you think their European performances are what define them? Basel, benfica would top the epl? Or did united just chop and change their team too much? (fergie admitted it himself, playing Rooney in central midfield!).

That's a pretty lame argument. Uniteds European expoits were simply a blip and the easy group they got simply confirms it (unless again you think benfica and Basel would be uP there with spurs, arsenal and city?)

And uniteds squad is stronger then last season. Suppose, maybe barca are just an average team playing in a sh"t time of football!

Didn't you just use last seasons performances to support the argument that they're better than they get credit for?


Basel and Benfica top the EPL? Of course not, it's a matter of styles and neither are suited to the league. The trick is to have a squad that can compete both domestically and in Europe. This United squad has been found wanting in that regard, imvhaho.

ROCKMAN

Drumpot wrote: »

So you think their European performances are what define them? Basel, benfica would top the epl? Or did united just chop and change their team too much? (fergie admitted it himself, playing Rooney in central midfield!).

That's a pretty lame argument. Uniteds European expoits were simply a blip and the easy group they got simply confirms it (unless again you think benfica and Basel would be uP there with spurs, arsenal and city?)

And uniteds squad is stronger then last season. Suppose, maybe barca are just an average team playing in a sh"t time of football!

In fairness ,it was you that used the champion league final as an example of the quality of the squad in the OP,
also a quality /strong squad surely can/should deal with chopping and changing isn't that the point/purpose of the squad in the first place.....

Drumpot

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Its hard for this team considering United had their best team ever just 4 years ago. This team are absolutely pants compared to when United had Ronaldo, Tevez and Rooney up front and an unbelievable defense but so are every other United team compared to the 08 team. In terms of the defence, they are near enough the same players but their performance level is nowhere near that of 4 years ago. The current team is a very good team but are very unlucky to come after what was United's greatest side.

Again, I think people are confusing top players in a team , with a good team. United lost 2-0 to barca with tevez, rooney and ronaldo! On the day that united team were no closer to barca then the one last year and they were at least the defending champions !

Drumpot

ROCKMAN wrote: »

In fairness ,it was you that used the champion league final as an example of the quality of the squad in the OP,
also a quality /strong squad surely can/should deal with chopping and changing isn't that the point/purpose of the squad in the first place.....

United were knocked out of the champions league this season because of complacency. The group couldn't of been weaker, are you suggesting they weren't good enough to get out of it? Also, completely ignores the injury crisis that no team has had to deal with anywhere this season!

I wouldn't judge united on their European cup final appearance alone last season, I am just doing the same this season!

I don't think going out in the group had anything to do with how good the squad was in comparison to the teams in the group. Fergie tampered too much and played our best player out of position! The teams performances were as lethargic and complacent as the managers tactics.

Sgt Pepper 64

G.K. wrote: »

What?

You were saying about how you need a CM, its well known that Utd was watching those 2 players in Chelseas CL matches with Benfica
Gaitain probably knocked a few million off his price, but he has been on Utds radar for some time

Its source, but UTD were deffo there watching these 2

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/320804/20120328/manchester-united-transfer-news-axel-witsel-eden.htm

Gary Neville before the 1st match was saying that everyone should watch out for Gaitan & Witsel, he said he was very impressive when they played United & that Witsel was perfect for the EPL, I remember it was a weird sort compliment to those specific two & for me it's consistent with him knowing that both of them were potential Manchester United players.

G.K.

Ah I see, I got confused with the usage of the word 'you', given I'm a Leeds fan not a United one.

Richard Hillman

Drumpot wrote: »

Again, I think people are confusing top players in a team , with a good team. United lost 2-0 to barca with tevez, rooney and ronaldo! On the day that united team were no closer to barca then the one last year and they were at least the defending champions !

I know but the year United won it they beat Barca in the semi's. Barcelona improved a lot when Rijkaard left and Guardiola came in. I think the only difference between the 08 winning team and the 09 runners up IMO was a better organised Barcelona team.

ROCKMAN

Drumpot wrote: »

United were knocked out of the champions league this season because of complacency. The group couldn't of been weaker, are you suggesting they weren't good enough to get out of it? Also, completely ignores the injury crisis that no team has had to deal with anywhere this season!

I don't think going out in the group had anything to do with how good the squad was in comparison to the teams in the group. Fergie tampered too much and played our best player out of position! The teams performances were as lethargic and complacent as the managers tactics.

YES...

am I missing something we didn't get out of it ,
I think how good the squad is had everything to do with us not getting out of the group stages , if the squad is as good as you're saying it should have been able to deal with the injury crisis especially in such a weak group as you put it.
Squads are put together to deal with injuries ,team tactics and schedules/fixtures

Drumpot

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I know but the year United won it they beat Barca in the semi's. Barcelona improved a lot when Rijkaard left and Guardiola came in. I think the only difference between the 08 winning team and the 09 runners up IMO was a better organised Barcelona team.

I was at the semi final in old trafford and it was a very nervy game. Took a scholes cracker to win it and messi had been injured leading up to these games. Think he only lasted 60mins in both games!

That said, we did only win the final on penos! I'm not trying to take things away from uniteds achievements, I just think that fond memories can replace objective discussions like these. Doesn't make me right by any means but I just wonder what this squad will have to do to get some respect from its own fans.

Cleverly/Anderson were our starting cm partnership this season. They started very well, how they would of done over the season is open to debate but given the injuries to them I think the squad has performed very well. I just think there is too much focus and highlighting of the negatives with no appreciation for some of the barriers to this squad showing what it's really capable of.

gosplan

adox wrote: »

The squad is most likely the strongest in the league. The strongest starting 11 most definitely isn't.

The main reason Utd are sitting top at the moment is the 12 th man and I'm not talking about a ref.

I seriously don't think they would be top without Fergie at the helm.

Exactly. The Man U squad aren't why they're top, it's their manager. Defo last year and probably this year, you could give Fergie any of the top four squads and he'd win the league.

Sgt Pepper 64

gosplan wrote: »

Exactly. The Man U squad aren't why they're top, it's their manager. Defo last year and probably this year, you could give Fergie any of the top four squads and he'd win the league.

Spot on and beaten to the post. I cheered when Fergie was retiring - and cried when he didnt!

He doesnt always get it right in europe, but domestically the stats dont lie, the only manager not to just moan about Chelseas billions but to sit down and actively work out a plan to take us on
The mans a legend and I hate him for it!

Ardent

Drumpot wrote: »

I read this alot about the man united team being poor and this and that, even from our own fans, but I have to say if this united team is poor it doesn't say much for the EPL...

Haven't read the rest of the discussion but.....end of thread right there!

LuckyLloyd

Best squad of players in the Premiership in terms of overall depth. I really wish it weren't the case.

smokedeels

As is often pointed out, while we don't have the strongest starting 11 in the EPL, it's the best squad. That and the manager is the main reason for the teams success.

Also, I think a few stand out performers have been underrated by people.
Carrick and Evans in particular, they have been as good as anyone in their respective positions in the EPL since the turn of the year. DDG too has been simply amazing since he got his place back.

Also, and this sounds strange, I don't think people understand just how good Wayne Rooney is.

GSPfan

I'd argue that United fans don't complain so much about Squad depth. Its more of a complaint about a lack of decent Midfielders.

Carrick is limited, Scholes blows hot and cold imo, Anderson and Cleverley are constantly injured.

We have goalkeepers, we have defenders, we have wingers (all of them in fact), we have forwards. Its just that bloody central midfield that lets United down. Trying to rest players in that area almost always results in the oppositions midfield looking superior.

Leiva

70% Squad
10% Winning habit
20% Fergie's Voodoo shít

Al Capwned

G.K. wrote: »

United's squad is excellent. Excellent for winning the EPL - it seems Fergie's been fine-tuning it for that pupose.

I've argued that City's squad is stronger and I believe it would be in other top European leagues, especially La Liga where the pressing you'll find from many teams would affect United more than City, at this stage.

However, United only have 2 trouble areas - CM and LB (And possibly a backup wingers, I don't rate Young as much as others do and Park is visibly in decline). Sort them out and it's looking fierce. But as it is Scholes is the best CM by a distance, possibly the only top class one, and Fabio's going out on loan leaving Evra for LB (I pity you all).

As I see it 3/4 players would be needed. A CM in the Martinez mould, a CM in the Scholes mould, a CM in the Xhaka mould if Anderson leaves, and someone like Jeremy Mathieu who can play LB or LW and is at the peak of thier career, ready for Fabio to be integrated in in a year or so. Maybe even get Mathieu on a year's loan.

So while the squad's not shocking, there are definite areas for improvement.

A whole lot of sense, as usual.

adox wrote: »

The squad is most likely the strongest in the league. The strongest starting 11 most definitely isn't.

The main reason Utd are sitting top at the moment is the 12 th man and I'm not talking about a ref.

I seriously don't think they would be top without Fergie at the helm.

Yep. Read a comment recently somewhere that if Fergie has the players City have, the league would be all but over by now.... I tend to agree.

cson

@ Sgt Pepper, United could do worse than nab Belgium's CM combo Witsel and Fellaini. Rate both of them very highly.

dfx-

A squad with a black hole of a central midfield regardless of Anderson or Nani or Carrick is extremely poor and is indicative of how bad the rest of the league is.

Winning the league with a black hole in the middle of the pitch, the most important part:eek:

eagle eye

United have been missing Vidic all year, they've not had a regular right full all season. They have not had a regular starter in the middle of the park all season.

When you look at the City squad and the depth they have in all positions, then look at the Chelsea squad which is not as good but still pretty powerful imo. United should not be ahead of them in the league given the chunks of time that important players have missed for them this season.

Only one United player has played over thirty games so far this season(Evra). Only seven other outfield players have played more than twenty games and they include Evans, Carrick and Jones, none of whom I believe were first choice at the start of the season.

This team being in contention at this stage would be a great achievement. Bringing Scholes out of retirment was a master stroke for sure. For me it will be one of Ferguson's greatest achievements if they do go on and win the league this year.

Wolf Club

I think the fact that United will win the league this year is down to 2 factors; their outstanding winning mentality and the regression of the other top teams. Chelsea, Arsenal and particularly Liverpool are poorer now than they've been in the last 10 years, and while City and Spurs have improved they've still not got what it tales. United deserve much praise for winning the league and their spirit is exceptional but I couldn't see them winning La Liga, Serie A or even the Bundesliga to be honest.

homerjay2005

Compare the bench spurs have today and what uniteds will be tomorrow. That will be a good gauge of how strong uniteds squad is. its the best in the league, the first 11 needs 2 center midfielders to make the first 11 the best around.no other team wud be able to soak up the injuries united have had this year.

If united invest properly this summer, the team will rattle the cl next year. if uniteds squad is poor, the rest of the league is woeful.

Giggsy11

Wolf Club wrote: »

I think the fact that United will win the league this year is down to 2 factors; their outstanding winning mentality and the regression of the other top teams. Chelsea, Arsenal and particularly Liverpool are poorer now than they've been in the last 10 years, and while City and Spurs have improved they've still not got what it tales. United deserve much praise for winning the league and their spirit is exceptional but I couldn't see them winning La Liga, Serie A or even the Bundesliga to be honest.

This is just ridiculous. You think ManUtd can't win Bundesliga? Dortmund won it and they finished last in their group.

Only league United wouldn't win is La Liga as Barca and Madrid have superb team and best 2 in the world, apart from it United would have won any other league (If they win Premier league)

Edit: Bold part sounds like Serie A, Bundesliga > Premier league which is far from truth.

G.K.

It would be harder for United to win either of those leagues.

G.K.

smokedeels wrote: »

Also, and this sounds strange, I don't think people understand just how good Wayne Rooney is.

I am one of these, at least until recently

eagle eye

Giggsy11 wrote: »

This is just ridiculous. You think ManUtd can't win Bundesliga? Dortmund won it and they finished last in their group.

Only league United wouldn't win is La Liga as Barca and Madrid have superb team and best 2 in the world, apart from it United would have won any other league (If they win Premier league)

Edit: Bold part sounds like Serie A, Bundesliga > Premier league which is far from truth.

I agree the comment was ridiculous but you do realise if you are using this year's Champion's League as your barometer then you are saying United wouldn't win the Swiss league.:D

Giggsy11

eagle eye wrote: »

I agree the comment was ridiculous but you do realise if you are using this year's Champion's League as your barometer then you are saying United wouldn't win the Swiss league.:D

Err, I meant this year champions league group stage shouldn't be taken into account to judge what we could win and what not as Bundesliga champions were awful in champions league

I think that poster made that comment because of our European performance so I just gave example of German team. :pac:

Wolf Club

Giggsy11 wrote: »

This is just ridiculous. You think ManUtd can't win Bundesliga? Dortmund won it and they finished last in their group.

Only league United wouldn't win is La Liga as Barca and Madrid have superb team and best 2 in the world, apart from it United would have won any other league (If they win Premier league)

Edit: Bold part sounds like Serie A, Bundesliga > Premier league which is far from truth.

Well personally I think Bayern Munich and AC Milan are better teams at the minute than Man Utd and therefore Utd would finish behind them in their respective leagues. To be fair my comment was hugely speculative though. As for your Dortmund CL point; how did Utd do in the Champions League this year? I don't think the Bundesliga or Serie A are better than the EPL either, I think the tops teams in those leagues are better but there is less of a difference between 1st and 10th in the EPL than there is in other European leagues; therefore making it better as a league overall.

Giggsy11

Wolf Club wrote: »

Well personally I think Bayern Munich and AC Milan are better teams at the minute than Man Utd and therefore Utd would finish behind them in their respective leagues. To be fair my comment was hugely speculative though. As for your Dortmund CL point; how did Utd do in the Champions League this year? I don't think the Bundesliga or Serie A are better than the EPL either, I think the tops teams in those leagues are better but there is less of a difference between 1st and 10th in the EPL than there is in other European leagues; therefore making it better as a league overall.

Bayern are 8 points behind Dortmund (Before this week games), and Milan are behind Juve. Sounds like they are not the best teams in their respective nation.

(Imo Milan > Juve, but I'm going by points table only).

Wolf Club

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Bayern are 8 points behind Dortmund (Before this week games), and Milan are behind Juve. Sounds like they are not the best teams in their respective nation.

(Imo Milan > Juve, but I'm going by points table only).

I see your point and I understand how you could think that my point is ridiculous; I can't say I follow the Bundesliga very closely and therefore can't explain why Bayern are so far behind Dortmund, but the CL games and few league games I've seen Bayern play this year have lead me to the conclusion that they are a better team than Man Utd, or any other team in Europe bar Barca and Real. United's defense is probably stronger; but other than that Bayern are better all over the pitch (well, I'd have Rooney over Gomez because of his overall game, but Gomez' goal count this year isn't too shabby either).