The Myth of Steven Gerrard

partyguinness

Come on...who's up for it??:D

For me the hard-on people have for Steven Gerrard just shows how blind people. Now he is a good honest player, always gives 100% and cant be faulted for that.

Gerrad is a classic symptom of what is wrong with English football. If running around 110mph where every pass can be no less than 30 yards then Gerrard is your man.

My thesis is this:

England's national team at major tournaments. They only have Plan A.

1. Run around at 100mph playing long pases up the channels.
2. After every 5 passes give the ball away to the opposition.
3. Then run around chasing shadows while technically superior teams hold on to the ball and do them on the counter attack
4. Get the ball back and try Plan A all over again
5. Retreat into a shell because you do not know what else to do and then the crowd gets on your back.
6. But, all is not lost, get one of your players sent off and put up a heroic ulimatley doomed defensive wall.
7. Heroic and now we can blame the ref and/or dirty cheating foreigners

Wake up..it is long ball kick and rush football....:mad:

Gerrard fits perfectly into this...running around, long 30 passes that bounce off the defenders. If that doesnt work he is clueless and vanishes.

Oh sure he will pop up with the odd special goal but that just masks a pretty ordinary player.

Yes he has been Liverpool's best and most effective player for the last 10 years but so what and was got them out of countless difficult situations.

In summation, a good honest player who has done well with a limited range of abilities a bit like Beckham.

Dubit10

Oh great just what we need another anti LFC thread.

Turtyturd

Dubit10 wrote: »

Oh great just what we need another anti LFC thread.

Nah Myth threads are just this weeks 'Are X and X done?' threads.

partyguinness

Dubit10 wrote: »

Oh great just what we need another anti LFC thread.

To be fair I am not anti LFC. This is just about Gerrard.

I would hope people would be a little more mature than that.

Dunphy once called him a nothing player.

Big fish, tiny, tiny pond. Should have joined Chelsea rather than just talking about it.

Xabi Alonso was a better player in his time at Liverpool imo.

LuckyLloyd

The only myth about Steven Gerrard is that his best position is as a central midfielder.

He has never been the best decision maker (though he can do heart stopping things on instinct), he is naive positionally and has no ability to set rhythm and tempo.

He has been a marvellous athlete though, has a bullet shot, and can make all the passes. His best football has been played when he is free to push up with the front line (with the likes of Hammann / Alonso / Masch behind him) and just make plays. He is a magnificent football player, but merely a good traditional central midfielder.

The last thing that is worth noting is how much of a big moment performer he has been. I don't really need to qualify that with examples as I'm sure everyone on this forum will be familiar with some of his clutch moments down through the years. That comes at the expense of consistency. There have been many 'smaller' teams to leave Anfield down through the years after facing an average performance from him. His England career is also, for me, a distinct disappointment when taken as a whole.

Paparazzo

I heard a good stat about him this season
Games liverpool won where Gerrard started: 9%
Games liverpool won where Gerrard didn't start: 50%

kryogen

Definitely not the best of his generation anyway

I am pie

Perhaps Pele, Fergie & Carlo Ancelotti could draw this to a close for us....

To me he is one of the super best midfielders in the world. He is an excellent player.
Pelé, three-time World Cup winner, before the 2006 World Cup (Source)

He has become the most influential player in England, bar none. Not that Vieira lacks anything, but Gerrard does more.
Alex Ferguson, manager of Manchester United FC (Source)

He is undoubtedly one of the best midfield players in the world.
Carlo Ancelotti, manager of AC Milan (Source)

Cantona's Collars

Mr.Hollywood pass himself,for every good game he has,there's the 5 bad ones that people tend to forget.Never consistent enough for me to be called a Premier League great,don't get me wrong he was a decent player (years of carrying Liverpool are catching up on him now) but didn't quite have "it" imo.

He fell between several stools,not disciplined enough to be a CM,was used on the wing and as a second striker so he never had a position he could call his own.Perhaps now it's time for him to change his game ala Scholes,he could be very effective in that role.

missingtime

partyguinness wrote: »

Now he is a good honest player, always gives 100% and cant be faulted for that.

Pffft....100% me hole

jaykay74

I am pie wrote: »

Perhaps Pele, Fergie & Carlo Ancelotti could draw this to a close for us....

To me he is one of the super best midfielders in the world. He is an excellent player.
Pelé, three-time World Cup winner, before the 2006 World Cup (Source)

Pele is a rent a quote, depends on who is paying his bills that particular day. Didn't he cite Nicky Butt as an outstanding midfielder during the 2002 WC

partyguinness

kryogen wrote: »

Definitely not the best of his generation anyway

He is no Cantona...;)

Xavi6

Best player in the league at his peak and the most complete midfielder you'll find.

Blatter

A high quality player but the biggest mistake from England's point of view (and Liverpool's at times) was thinking that he's a central midfielder. I think he has always seen himself as a CM as well, bizarrely enough.

He doesn't have the brain to play at a high level there. He could never relate to the different context in games and could never consistently dictate as a result.

A genuine top tier attacking midfielder at his peak though, no doubt about that.

I am pie

There are a few more there from the likes of Henry, Zidane and even Red Nev if you are interested.

....no doubt the muckspreaders and naysayers on this thread know better though.

EdenHazard

He's class, went from being a good tough tackling defensive midfielder to into this all action world class player. He annoys me but he had spells in his career where he was amazing. There'd be loads of players better than him though.

jaykay74

Xavi6 wrote: »

Best player in the league at his peak and the most complete midfielder you'll find.

You haven't looked that far then

Corholio

Seems flavour of the month to be knocking players who have any sort of decent reputation with anyone. Gerrard is a quality player, his goals record is excellent and has pulled Liverpool from many a hole. Im not a fan of Liverpool in the slightest either by the way. Never quite did it with England, then again who has in the past 10 years?

To call Gerrard a pretty ordinary player is ridiculous to be honest.

I am pie

jaykay74 wrote: »

Pele is a rent a quote, depends on who is paying his bills that particular day. Didn't he cite Nicky Butt as an outstanding midfielder during the 2002 WC

Fergie ? Ancelotti? Zidane? Henry ?

Still, I imagine you know better.

Leiva

This Soccer forum is gone to the fúcking Dogs !


that is all .

jaykay74

I am pie wrote: »

Fergie ? Ancelotti? Zidane? Henry ?

Still, I imagine you know better.

No I said Pele is a rent a quote, can you not read! :pac:

I have little or no opinion on Gerard of note. Carry on though

LuckyLloyd

partyguinness wrote: »

Gerrard fits perfectly into this...running around, long 30 passes that bounce off the defenders. If that doesnt work he is clueless and vanishes.

Oh sure he will pop up with the odd special goal but that just masks a pretty ordinary player.

In summation, a good honest player who has done well with a limited range of abilities a bit like Beckham.

Oh my, just reading the OP properly now.

You sir, are an idiot.

kryogen

Good player, not top tier by any stretch , wouldnt be fit to lace Keane or Vieras boots in terms of a central midfielder, never was real central midfielder to be fair to him but he does seem to think he is one.

Someone said most complete midfielder? well thats clearly just plain wrong!

Never dragged Liverpool to great heights domestically, did well for them in one off cup games now and then alright, but even those were overshadowed by some of his teammates, (see 2005 for examples)

Would have made a fine attacking midfielder with the right system around him.

Gerrard is just a scouse Alex Song.

Pinturicchio

jaykay74 wrote: »

Pele is a rent a quote, depends on who is paying his bills that particular day. Didn't he cite Nicky Butt as an outstanding midfielder during the 2002 WC

"His left foot is fantastic. It’s like Mozart. God gave Freddy [Adu] the gift to play soccer." - Pele

"Totti is the best player in the world." - Pele

SlickRic

Leiva wrote: »

This Soccer forum is gone to the fúcking Dogs !

that is all .

lighten up a bit mate.

i'm not going to allow a mass influx of these, but they can spark good discussion.

Lloyd said pretty everything that needs to be said.

i will also add that Rafa is the only one who really understood how to get the very best out of him. he needs to be pretty much devoid of the responsibilities of your normal midfielder. he needs a licence to make things happen as far up the pitch as possible.

he's been wasted IMO for a lot of years in positions that are not his best; positions where he can do a good job, but not where he can excel.

a great player.

Morricone

In 08-09 he was the best player in England and was world class. There were few attacking midfielders on a par with in the world at the time.

Such a clutch performer, Olympiakos, Ac Milan, West Ham and countless other occasions when he pulled mastery from nothing.

Probably the best naturally instinctive player I've ever seen. He could be wildly inconsistent, especially when in centre mid but during the 04-05, 05-06 and 08-09 seasons he was magnificent, absolutely magnificent.

I am pie

jaykay74 wrote: »

No I said Pele is a rent a quote, can you not read! :pac:

I have little or no opinion on Gerard of note. Carry on though

I'll make this slightly simpler for you as it is appears you are struggling.

Discounting your opinion on Pelé , what do you make of Ferguson, Ancelotti and Neville's comments about Gerrard ? Are they all wrong and you are right?

Or are you a fairly limited wind up merchant with a childish prediliction for smiley faces?

Carry on...

kryogen

Oh yeah, he was no Paul Scholes

*Just to note, I may be being a little harsh due to the nature of the stupid comments in the other thread

Cantona's Collars

Leiva wrote: »

This Soccer forum is gone to the fúcking Dogs !


that is all .

We aren't here to rip Gerard to shreds,just to have a debate as to how he is held in such high regard by fans.Even die-hard Liverpool fans must admit he's very inconsistent and can disappear in games.His failings in some games were glossed over when he popped up with a last minute winner or a screamer of a goal having been completely anonymous for the rest of the game.
Look at Rooney vs Villa,he scored 2 but overall was poor but he'll be remembered for the 2 goals,not the fact he lost the ball time after time.

jaykay74

I am pie wrote: »

I'll make this slightly simpler for you as it is appears you are struggling.

Discounting your opinion on Pelé , what do you make of Ferguson, Ancelotti and Neville's comments about Gerrard ? Are they all wrong and you are right?

Or are you a fairly limited wind up merchant with a childish prediliction for smiley faces?

Carry on...

NO. You gave 3 sources. I dismissed Pele as he is a fool and a rent-a-quote. I have no other opinion of note to share here as I have little or no opinion on how good Gerard is as I said before. Maybe you missed that bit. How does that wind anyone up though

I used smilies to keep it light but apparently you are not a fan... /shrugs.

People are so angry these days.

Liam O

Great attacking midfielder, good centre midfielder. Embraced his good qualities to the detriment of both his team and his great qualities really. Will be overrated by Liverpool fans the same way Charlie Adam was overrated for Blackpool last season. Can be devastating in the right system but any sort of adaptation it's a struggle. Terrifying player to watch against your team though when he's on form.

kryogen

I am pie wrote: »

I'll make this slightly simpler for you as it is appears you are struggling.

Discounting your opinion on Pelé , what do you make of Ferguson, Ancelotti and Neville's comments about Gerrard ? Are they all wrong and you are right?

Or are you a fairly limited wind up merchant with a childish prediliction for smiley faces?

Carry on...

Your arguments are silly though

If they were brought up in the Cantona thread as in, well Fergie said he is the greatest, Zidane said he was a master etc it would be shot down as much as it is here.

I am pie

kryogen wrote: »

Good player, not top tier by any stretch , wouldnt be fit to lace Keane or Vieras boots in terms of a central midfielder, never was real central midfielder to be fair to him but he does seem to think he is one.

Someone said most complete midfielder? well thats clearly just plain wrong!

Never dragged Liverpool to great heights domestically, did well for them in one off cup games now and then alright, but even those were overshadowed by some of his teammates, (see 2005 for examples)

Would have made a fine attacking midfielder with the right system around him.

This is everything that is wrong with a certain brand of fans who are fans of a particular football club but have never really graduated to actually appreciating the game as a whole.

To come on these boards and start claiming that Cantona, Gerrard or any other clearly top class football player didn't make it strikes me a churlish in the extreme. It's playground stuff.

What's next here ? Ian Rush was lucky in front of goal ? Arsenal were never really that Invincible ? It's a bit silly all told.

I am pie

kryogen wrote: »

Your arguments are silly though

If they were brought up in the Cantona thread as in, well Fergie said he is the greatest, Zidane said he was a master etc it would be shot down as much as it is here.

Honestly, I genuinely don't think you have much of an appreciation of the game if you don't rate either of those players.

With that, good luck and all the best.

stovelid

Bring down the hammer of wrath on the forum soon.

kryogen

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Oh my, just reading the OP properly now.

You sir, are an idiot.

You didnt pick up on that in the other thread no?

Turtyturd

kryogen wrote: »

Oh yeah, he was no Paul Scholes

*Just to note, I may be being a little harsh due to the nature of the stupid comments in the other thread

Here's an idea, debate the stupid comments in that thread instead of contributing them to this one.

LuckyLloyd

kryogen wrote: »

*Just to note, I may be being a little harsh due to the nature of the stupid comments in the other thread

So you've decided to make terrible posts in two threads! Good man.

kryogen

I am pie wrote: »

This is everything that is wrong with a certain brand of fans who are fans of a particular football club but have never really graduated to actually appreciating the game as a whole.

To come on these boards and start claiming that Cantona, Gerrard or any other clearly top class football player didn't make it strikes me a churlish in the extreme. It's playground stuff.

What's next here ? Ian Rush was lucky in front of goal ? Arsenal were never really that Invincible ? It's a bit silly all told.

your damn right boy

kryogen

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So you've decided to make terrible posts in two threads! Good man.

Point out to me a terrible post from the Cantona thread if you will

kryogen

I am pie wrote: »

Honestly, I genuinely don't think you have much of an appreciation of the game if you don't rate either of those players.

With that, good luck and all the best.

You see its quite the opposite, if you had read the other thread you would know how highly I do rate Cantona, and of course I rate Gerrard, letting off steam my friend, letting off steam.

Some topics are too silly to be serious about.

Your opinion on whether I have appreciation for football is neither here nor there tbh

kevohmsford

Steven Gerrard is one of the greatest players ever to play in the Premiership. He came desperately close to joining Chelsea a few years ago. He played some of his best football infront of Alonso and Mascherano. Never seemed comfortable playing in center midfield or when he played on the right.

5starpool

Most people don't seem to realise what the majority of match watching Liverpool fans actually think of Steven Gerrard it would seem.

super_furry

Gerrard is to Liverpool what Bryan Robson was to United.

LuckyLloyd

kryogen wrote: »

Point out to me a terrible post from the Cantona thread if you will

kryogen wrote: »

This thread actually has me getting banned written all over it so Im out of here...

Why would you write that?

Chucky the tree

5starpool wrote: »

Most people don't seem to realise what the majority of match watching Liverpool fans actually think of Steven Gerrard it would seem.

It's pretty comical. It seems that ones who go on about how great he is are the non-Liverpool fans while the Liverpool fans are the ones who don't rate him as a world class central midfielder. Obviously 'Pool fans will still get abuse for over-rating him andd hyping him up though.

eZe^

I am pie wrote: »

Perhaps Pele, Fergie & Carlo Ancelotti could draw this to a close for us....

The same Pele who exclaimed Neymar is already a better player than Messi?

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The only myth about Steven Gerrard is that his best position is as a central midfielder.

He has never been the best decision maker (though he can do heart stopping things on instinct), he is naive positionally and has no ability to set rhythm and tempo.

He has been a marvellous athlete though, has a bullet shot, and can make all the passes. His best football has been played when he is free to push up with the front line (with the likes of Hammann / Alonso / Masch behind him) and just make plays. He is a magnificent football player, but merely a good traditional central midfielder.

The last thing that is worth noting is how much of a big moment performer he has been. I don't really need to qualify that with examples as I'm sure everyone on this forum will be familiar with some of his clutch moments down through the years. That comes at the expense of consistency. There have been many 'smaller' teams to leave Anfield down through the years after facing an average performance from him. His England career is also, for me, a distinct disappointment when taken as a whole.

Top post, he never had the awareness and composure to dictate a world class midfield for 90 minutes, but he did have the ability to change a game in an instant.

kryogen

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Why would you write that?

Because I know whats going to happen, a muppet will continually post muppetry and I will eventually bite and get a ban for it. simple really.

Should I bite? No of course not, but Im sure you can understand that some people post the most retarded things, over and over again, without any logic behind them, and now and then I react. I dont claim to be perfect!

You have hissy fits at times so Im sure you will at least know what Im talking about

super_furry

kryogen wrote: »

Because I know whats going to happen, a muppet will continually post muppetry and I will eventually bite and get a ban for it. simple really.

You're a United fan. Why on earth would you let a debate about a Liverpool player get to you so much?

Only problem with the topic at hand is that it seems to be another tit-for-tat argument created because someone else was questioning a player that played for a rival team.