Toll jumpers

soundmangar

This has happened to me twice in the past week going to work at the M1 toll. I put my money in the basket and as I drove through a vehicle, both times a work van, "piggybacked" me, almost taking the back off my van, and evaded paying the toll.
I know a lot of people take the view of if there is such a simple loophole to avoid paying the toll, fair play to them. I can't help feeling a bit aggrieved that basically I paid for them.
How do others feel and would you report it?

Ronnie Binge

soundmangar wrote: »

This has happened to me twice in the past week going to work at the M1 toll. I put my money in the basket and as I drove through a vehicle, both times a work van, "piggybacked" me, almost taking the back off my van, and evaded paying the toll.
I know a lot of people take the view of if there is such a simple loophole to avoid paying the toll, fair play to them. I can't help feeling a bit aggrieved that basically I paid for them.
How do others feel and would you report it?

I'd feel a lot worse if someone rear-ended me doing that stunt.

flazio

First and foremost, report to the toll operators, the booths are usually plastered with CCTVs are they not? These people are guilty of theft, pure and simple.

_Kaiser_

I'd be inclined to stop halfway through the barrier and get out and ask what the hell he thought he was at... but that's me

flazio

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I'd be inclined to stop halfway through the barrier and get out and ask what the hell he thought he was at... but that's me

Or stop just after the barrier let it go down and then drive off.

soundmangar

I will without doubt be more aware of what's behind me as I take off after putting money in the basket, think I just wanted some reassurance I wasn't being anal about it. It's downright dangerous.

antoobrien

If it happens again their their reg number and report them to the gardai

Conway635

I have a tag, and have had this happen to me a couple of times in the "express lanes" on the M7/M8.

Basically when people see me line up for my run through the express lane, they sudde3nly speed up and come right up behind me to get a free ride through the lane.

After this happened a couple of times I got wise, and am now very aware of this behaviour when approaching the tolls. More recently someone tried this on me again, and as the lane left of me was free i pulled left and slowed down sharply so he had to overtake me, then flipped back out into the right lane again behind him. He had to move left and go through the toll booths (and pay) and I continued as normal.

It was satisfying to be able to foil his plan to ride me, but i was only able to achieve this as there was no other traffric beside of behind us.

C635

Rulmeq

Conway635 wrote: »

I have a tag, and have had this happen to me a couple of times in the "express lanes" on the M7/M8.

Basically when people see me line up for my run through the express lane, they sudde3nly speed up and come right up behind me to get a free ride through the lane.

After this happened a couple of times I got wise, and am now very aware of this behaviour when approaching the tolls. More recently someone tried this on me again, and as the lane left of me was free i pulled left and slowed down sharply so he had to overtake me, then flipped back out into the right lane again behind him. He had to move left and go through the toll booths (and pay) and I continued as normal.

It was satisfying to be able to foil his plan to ride me, but i was only able to achieve this as there was no other traffric beside of behind us.

C635

My battery died in my tag a few weeks ago, and I had to leave the express lane to pay at the coin box, I was wondering why the guy behind me followed me. Now I guess I know

soundmangar

This practice is rampant by the sound of things!

soundmangar

Just to follow up on this I caught one of the clowns that did it last wk trying it again yesterday. I nudged out past the barrier and stopped, the barrier fell and he was left in no mans land, on the paying side of the barrier. I gave him a little wave and drove off.

tfitzgerald

I never new people did this sort of thing . It siunds like dangerous driving to me

ongarboy

It was in the news a couple of years ago when the M50 toll barriers were first removed that cars used to drive right up behind trucks at the toll area so that the cameras could not spot the front number plates. I think they now have CCTV in place that captures both front and rear plates. They were going on at the time about how lethal it was (eg if the truck suddenly had to break etc, the dodger would be in real trouble!)

.

jack presley

It's happened to me a few times on the M1 toll as well so I now pull off very slowly after the barrier goes up and don't speed up until the barrier begins to come down behind me. Resulted in a van behind me getting the barrier smacked off his roof. I doubt it does any damage but I doubt he was expecting it!

yllw.ldbttr

A guy in a black Passat tried this behind me Southbound at the Watergrasshill toll plaza on the M8 at the weekend.
He slowed as I approached the toll and swerved in behind me, it was obvious what he was trying to do.

I hit the brakes as I went past the barrier and he had to jam on as well....
He then backed up... and rolled in behind another guy. Unbelievable.

Do the toll operators report these guys, are the breaking the law? Are they ever pursued for dangerous driving etc?

flazio

yllw.ldbttr wrote: »

Do the toll operators report these guys, are the breaking the law? Are they ever pursued for dangerous driving etc?

Not sure if the toll operators do but they should, it's either fare evasion or theft whichever way you look at it from their end and a big insurance risk for themselves and victim drivers.
I'm surprised that the only public campaign against this so far was on the M50.
This behaviour has to be addressed before something tragic happens.

Cedrus

These orcs are risking a serious accident for a couple of euros??????????????
Get them off the road!

M4Girl

The toll operators all use ANPR and CCTV - they can check registered owners of vehicles and will pursue all toll jumpers as far as is necessary.

It is one of the most dangerous things to do; apart from dealing with a barrier slamming down on your vehicle, there are toll booths with folk in them doing their jobs on most plazas, and there are often maintenance workers out there as well. It's a dangerous enough job working on a motorway without idiots like this (to add to all the other idiots of course...)

M4Girl.

bkehoe

yllw.ldbttr wrote: »

I hit the brakes as I went past the barrier and he had to jam on as well....

Hardly the safest thing to do with someone tailgating you.

With regard to the express lanes, as someone with a tag, I'm often frustrated by the fact that lots of people also with tags feel they have to creep through the express lane at the same speed as through a lane with an attendant or coin basket. This can lead to others catching up on them and may give them the impression that someone is trying to dodge the toll perhaps? Many a time I've had to slow down to near walking speed because someone thinks they need to go 10MPH till the barrier rises.

Cedrus

I'm wondering if the fatal accident at the watergrasshill tollgate last week had anything to do with this?

yllw.ldbttr

Cedrus wrote: »

I'm wondering if the fatal accident at the watergrasshill tollgate last week had anything to do with this?

Very different circumstances from what I heard.

fasttalkerchat

soundmangar wrote: »

I will without doubt be more aware of what's behind me as I take off after putting money in the basket, think I just wanted some reassurance I wasn't being anal about it. It's downright dangerous.

You could easily have had his bumper up your anal!

yllw.ldbttr

bkehoe wrote: »

Hardly the safest thing to do with someone tailgating you.
.

Ok, and I agree in some ways, but he should be maintaining a safe distance behind me.. And there's no way I was leaving the asshole through on my coin.

antoobrien

bkehoe wrote: »

Many a time I've had to slow down to near walking speed because someone thinks they need to go 10MPH till the barrier rises.

The ones on the M4 in Kinnegad are timed so that you can't be doing much more than 50km/h between the sensor & the barrier. I had a friend in the car one day that wasn't used to this and she started to scream I was going to crash just before the barrier came up.

M4Girl

The really annoying ones are them that go through the express lane at 30 km/h AFTER they've gone through the barrier...leaving you puttering along in their wake and thumping the steering wheel in frustration.

Most toll plaza accidents are caused by folk braking suddenly or lane changing at the last minute; saw one earlier this week who did a u-turn and went back the way for 50 yards or so, before noticing the violent honking and light-flashing of the other users. He turned back and sat on the hard shoulder for a while, then headed through a manned booth as if he had meant to do that all along...

M4Girl.

ardmacha

Most toll plaza accidents are caused by folk braking suddenly or lane changing at the last minute;

I think you mean that most toll plaza accidents are caused by people who are driving too close to people in front who brake suddenly.

saw one earlier this week who did a u-turn and went back the way for 50 yards or so

Some who drives the wrong way on a motorway deserves an immediate ban.

M4Girl

Ardmacha, I did mean that most accidents are caused by folk braking suddenly - you might be surprised at the number of accidents that are single-vehicle on toll plazas (or the one I am familiar with). Drivers brake suddenly and hit the barriers, the crash nosings, the cones, the cylinders, other cars...most of it is inattention or not slowing down in good time and having to take emergency action. Yes there are rear-enders, but not that many. There is a huge potential for rear-ending, particularly relating to the tail gaters that started this thread, but sadly almost all the RTAs I deal with are SVAs.

M4Girl.

Ludo

M4Girl wrote: »

Ardmacha, I did mean that most accidents are caused by folk braking suddenly - you might be surprised at the number of accidents that are single-vehicle on toll plazas (or the one I am familiar with). Drivers brake suddenly and hit the barriers, the crash nosings, the cones, the cylinders, other cars...most of it is inattention or not slowing down in good time and having to take emergency action. Yes there are rear-enders, but not that many. There is a huge potential for rear-ending, particularly relating to the tail gaters that started this thread, but sadly almost all the RTAs I deal with are SVAs.

M4Girl.

That makes no sense....those accidents are not caused by braking suddenly. The braking suddenly is to try avoid an accident as they weren't paying attention....i.e. the braking suddenly is not the root cause.

Cedrus

There is a huge speed differential between the motorway and toll plaza speeds and many drivers don't seem to appreciate this. They come hammering down looking for an open gate and either swerve or brake to get to one, then realise that they're still going a lot faster than they realised.

Tollgates are still a relatively new concept in Ireland and not everyone sees them regularly (if at all), many still haven't got the hang of multi lane dual carriageways yet. There's also a courtesy issue with the road warriors bulling through the less experienced, nervous, cautious and admittedly frustrating drivers.

M4Girl

Ludo, you are of course entitled to your opinion, and as someone who has worked on motorways and toll roads for 25 years I am entitled to mine. We can agree to differ.

Cedrus, the first toll road opened I think 6 years ago in Ireland, so they aren't that new as a concept. Still, as I pointed out above, we are all entitled to our own opinions and I shall retire as gracefully as I can from this discussion.

M4Girl.

Cedrus

M4Girl wrote: »

..........................................
Cedrus, the first toll road opened I think 6 years ago in Ireland, so they aren't that new as a concept. ..............

I don't mean that they are brand new but that they did not exist when many drivers were learning (not that they learn on motorways anyway) and many drivers do not have much experience with them. Because of their location on fast roads and the sudden widening at the plaza they present very unique hazards and challenge drivers spatial and speed awareness.

The M50 Toll (now gone) was much older than 6 years?

Pataman

M4Girl wrote: »

Ludo, you are of course entitled to your opinion, and as someone who has worked on motorways and toll roads for 25 years I am entitled to mine. We can agree to differ.

Cedrus, the first toll road opened I think 6 years ago in Ireland, so they aren't that new as a concept. Still, as I pointed out above, we are all entitled to our own opinions and I shall retire as gracefully as I can from this discussion.

M4Girl.

1984 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East-Link_%28Dublin%29

antoobrien

Cedrus wrote: »

Tollgates are still a relatively new concept in Ireland and not everyone sees them regularly (if at all)

As somebody else pointed out they're around for more than 20 years.

Besides many people will have used similar barriers in car parks, so stop trying to excuse people for stupidity and recklessness.

Irish and Proud

M4Girl wrote: »

Ludo, you are of course entitled to your opinion, and as someone who has worked on motorways and toll roads for 25 years I am entitled to mine. We can agree to differ.

Cedrus, the first toll road opened I think 6 years ago in Ireland, so they aren't that new as a concept. Still, as I pointed out above, we are all entitled to our own opinions and I shall retire as gracefully as I can from this discussion.

M4Girl.

We have had toll bridges since 1984 IIRC - East Link (1984) and Westlink (1990).

AFAIK, the first toll road in either Ireland or the UK (where a motorist can pay for the use of a road without encountering a major bridge) was the M1 Drogheda Bypass (2003) - this was followed fairly quickly by the UK's M6 Birmingham Northern Relief Road (Dec 2003). I guess the next toll roads in Ireland were the M4 Kilcock to Kinnegad (no major bridge at all) (2005) and M8 Fermoy Bypass (2006) IIRC. I regularly pay to use the Drogheda Bypass - frequently without using the Boyne Bridge.

Regards!

fasttalkerchat

Ludo wrote: »

That makes no sense....those accidents are not caused by braking suddenly. The braking suddenly is to try avoid an accident as they weren't paying attention....i.e. the braking suddenly is not the root cause.

Planning to brake at the last minute then. Cars driving up to the barrier at 80 km/h and then breaking a few metres away from it.

Cedrus

antoobrien wrote: »

Besides many people will have used similar barriers in car parks, so stop trying to excuse people for stupidity and recklessness.

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Stinicker

Cedrus wrote: »

???????????????????????????????????????????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvncZl7X2hU

I heard of this happening on the barrier free toll bridge on the M50 but this is the first I have heard of it happening elsewhere and involving the barrier tolls.

Irish and Proud

bbuzz wrote: »

Irish and Proud wrote: »

AFAIK, the first toll road in either Ireland or the UK (where a motorist can pay for the use of a road without encountering a major bridge) was the M1 Drogheda Bypass (2003)

This doesn't count as a major bridge?

It does, but if you travel on the M1 between Jct 7 and Jct 8/9, you will pay the toll without actually crossing the bridge. Therefore, you end up paying for the use of the road rather than the bridge.

persie11

hey,

i got on the M8 near Fermoy, there is a toll booth on the on-reamp. A truck was ahead of me and was taking an age, so when he finally took off I was in my own little world when the car behind me blew the horn at me, I took off starled and drove past the booth, the green light was on and the barrier up, I then realized that I hadn't paid and that the barrier was still up for the truck.
Will I have to pay a fine or should I contact eflow and tell them what happened?

Stark

I doubt they'd notice. You could just say you had a tag and thought you were clear to proceed.