Joe Ward out of Olympics

Officer999

Joe Ward out of Olympics after being beaten by a Turkish opponent in last 16 in controversial circumstances. IABA may appeal

gene_tunney

Surely he can still qualify if the Turk wins outright?

wicorthered

gene_tunney wrote: »

Surely he can still qualify if the Turk wins outright?

No the Semi final opponent of the Turk will!

Kristopherus

Home town decision?

super_furry

Mick Dowling just said on RTE that the appeal is going in.

kryogen

Appealing the decision afaik, didnt see it or anything, but have heard it was very dodgy.

magma69

super_furry wrote: »

Mick Dowling just said on RTE that the appeal is going in.

It will probably fall on deaf ears. This really is sickening news. Ruined my day. He's the one guy I wanted to see at the Olympics ahead of the rest of the hopefuls.

walshb

magma69 wrote: »

It will probably fall on deaf ears. This really is sickening news. Ruined my day. He's the one guy I wanted to see at the Olympics ahead of the rest of the hopefuls.

If Ward's surname was Lomachenko he'd win the appeal.

Sad news.

magma69

walshb wrote: »

If Ward's surname was Lomachenko he'd win the appeal.

Sad news.

Didn't he win an appeal over a decision at the last qualifiers? I could be wrong about that. He's the golden boy of the amateurs. Brilliant talent. Probably best p4p boxer in the game.

the_real_lamp

magma69 wrote: »

Didn't he win an appeal over a decision at the last qualifiers? I could be wrong about that. He's the golden boy of the amateurs. Brilliant talent. Probably best p4p boxer in the game.

Yeah against a Brazillian in Baku, I think.
Different story here, Joe Ward is not the name Lomachenko is and it would require throwing out a home nation boxer!

walshb

magma69 wrote: »

Didn't he win an appeal over a decision at the last qualifiers? I could be wrong about that. He's the golden boy of the amateurs. Brilliant talent. Probably best p4p boxer in the game.

Yes, in a very competitive fight too. A Brazilian lad beat him by one point. Lomachenko was given two public warnings, and they reversed one of them, making him the winner. I did not agree with it. That rarely rarely happens, but he was the star of the world championships, and pressure was on I would say. Lomachenko went o to win the gold.

strongback

Anyone got a link. Wards coach and the Ireland team manager aren't happy but aren't holding their breath on a reversal of the decision. They have been on the radio.

efb

Can't see it being reversed.

super_furry

Can't see Ward hanging around in the amateurs for another four years to be honest. Would be tragic if he didn't get to go.

barney4001

terrible outcome for ward and irish boxing

The Davestator

super_furry wrote: »

Can't see Ward hanging around in the amateurs for another four years to be honest. Would be tragic if he didn't get to go.

I'd be shocked if he doesn't go pro. Look at where Egan is 4 years later- don't think Joe will hang around.

the_real_lamp

Appeal turned down, no rule broken I'm afraid.

JacksonHeightsOwn

no point in Ward staying as an amateur now.

if i was Eddie Hearn id be on the first flight to Turkey to sign the lad up.

yore

The Davestator wrote: »

I'd be shocked if he doesn't go pro. Look at where Egan is 4 years later- don't think Joe will hang around.

I'd be surprised if he did go pro to be honest

Edit: I mean right away or anytime soon

Dan man

The Davestator wrote: »

I'd be shocked if he doesn't go pro. Look at where Egan is 4 years later- don't think Joe will hang around.

Egan is 30, Joe Ward is still only 18... big difference.

strongback

Egan doesn't have a style that suits pro boxing. Ward does.

themandan6611

strongback wrote: »

Egan doesn't have a style power that suits pro boxing. Ward does.

fixed that

efb

Could just see Ward in with Tyson Fury, Martin Rogan et al. I can't say I saw him as a realistic medal hope- heavy hitter, but not much else that would work in amateur boxing.

Syferus

He's a smart banger, he could easily have won gold. Such a pity.

strongback

themandan6611 wrote: »

fixed that

Egan is a scientific counter puncher that is perfectly suited to the the amateur scoring system. His style is not conducive to pro fighting. He steals points but that doesn't mean anything to a pro judge.

Lots of light hitters won a world title. Look no further than Maxie "Slapsie" Rosenbloom.

themandan6611

efb wrote: »

Could just see Ward in with Tyson Fury, Martin Rogan et al. I can't say I saw him as a realistic medal hope- heavy hitter, but not much else that would work in amateur boxing.

1. either can i see him fighting Fury or Rogam, he's not a heavyweight yet and sure Rogan is a 100 years older

2. "heavy hitter, but not much else that would work in amateur boxing" - he's Euro Champ at 19 :rolleyes: go figure !! he is more suited to Pro

themandan6611

strongback wrote: »

Egan is a scientific counter puncher that is perfectly suited to the the amateur scoring system. His style is not conducive to pro fighting. He steals points but that doesn't mean anything to a pro judge.

Lots of light hitters won a world title. Look no further than Maxie "Slapsie" Rosenbloom.

eh, sort of my point

strongback

themandan6611 wrote: »

eh, sort of my point

You changed my post to say Egan didn't have enough power.

Power has nothing to do with what I was talking about which is why I quoted Maxie Rosenbloom as an example.

Wayne McCullough didn't have much punching power either.

barney4001

pro game would be Wards best option probably USA be better for him than home

Craptacular

Billy Walsh said yesterday that Ward will be staying amateur.

NikNak8

Read an article in yesterdays indo about Katie Taylor stating that even if she doesn't qualify she could be invited. Could this happen for JW seeing as he is Euro champ?

sleapy235

NikNak8 wrote: »

Read an article in yesterdays indo about Katie Taylor stating that even if she doesn't qualify she could be invited. Could this happen for JW seeing as he is Euro champ?

There is a certain number of Tripartite invitation places (8 for men, 11 for women) but as far as I know these are only given to nations without any qualified boxers so I would say it is highly unlikely.

Craptacular

NikNak8 wrote: »

Read an article in yesterdays indo about Katie Taylor stating that even if she doesn't qualify she could be invited. Could this happen for JW seeing as he is Euro champ?

There is a Wildcard spot available for a European boxer but the Wildcard spots usually go to countries trying to develop the sport. It's not impossible that he'd get it but it's very unlikely.

Dan man

Here is a link to how the Tripartite Commission are allowed to allocate the invitational quotas.
http://www.ittf.com/World_Events/2012OG/3.Tripartite_Commission_Invitations.pdf

It suggests that the Commission must award the wildcards to an NOC (National Olympic Committee) with an average 6 or less athletes at the previous two Games. However, if a wildcard place has to be turned down by one of these NOC's then then the A.I.B.A. (International Boxing Federation) will have the right to re-distribute the wildcard spot following the guidelines of their qualification system. Therefore it is highly unlikely that Ward will be competing in London. It's such a blow for our medal chances.

walshb

NikNak8 wrote: »

Read an article in yesterdays indo about Katie Taylor stating that even if she doesn't qualify she could be invited. Could this happen for JW seeing as he is Euro champ?

That article was in the indo. Yes, they have discretion to invite Taylor, and if ever that discretion was apt, it would be for a star like Taylor. Anyway, hoping that she won't need it. She wants to go to London as the WC.

bk2101

Dan man wrote: »

Here is a link to how the Tripartite Commission are allowed to allocate the invitational quotas.
http://www.ittf.com/World_Events/2012OG/3.Tripartite_Commission_Invitations.pdf

It suggests that the Commission must award the wildcards to an NOC (National Olympic Committee) with an average 6 or less athletes at the previous two Games. However, if a wildcard place has to be turned down by one of these NOC's then then the A.I.B.A. (International Boxing Federation) will have the right to re-distribute the wildcard spot following the guidelines of their qualification system. Therefore it is highly unlikely that Ward will be competing in London. It's such a blow for our medal chances.

I suppose it isn't likely since nobody is talking about it, but isn't there a tripartite commision place for Europe in the 81kg division? So assuming that there aren't any European countries with less than 6 athletes at the last Olympics, hoping to qualify an 81kg boxer, it should be redistributed by AIBA. According to http://www.aiba.org/documents/site1/Olympics/2012London/London%202012_QualificationSystem_EN.pdf

Should the Tripartite Commission not be able to assign the places, the quota place will be allocated to the
next best ranked athlete at the 2011 AIBA Men’s World Boxing Championship, not yet qualied.

Meaning that unless some European 81kg boxer from a small country gets the place, it might end up going to Ward?

Dan man

bk2101 wrote: »

I suppose it isn't likely since nobody is talking about it, but isn't there a tripartite commision place for Europe in the 81kg division?

I'm not trying to be smart, but where do you come to that conclusion? I can't see it being stated anywhere that there is an invitation place for a European light-heavyweight boxer.

the_real_lamp

bk2101 wrote: »

I suppose it isn't likely since nobody is talking about it, but isn't there a tripartite commision place for Europe in the 81kg division? So assuming that there aren't any European countries with less than 6 athletes at the last Olympics, hoping to qualify an 81kg boxer, it should be redistributed by AIBA. According to http://www.aiba.org/documents/site1/Olympics/2012London/London%202012_QualificationSystem_EN.pdf

Reading that it appears that to qualify for the Tripartite place, our Olympic council would have had apply for the place before the 16th of Jan this year, the deadline.

Meaning that unless some European 81kg boxer from a small country gets the place, it might end up going to Ward?

Bosnia and Herz had only 5 competitors at the last Olympics and their boxer at 81kg at the qualifier has been knocked out, so from my little reading of it, he would be in pole position to get the place?

Dan man

the_real_lamp wrote: »

Bosnia and Herz had only 5 competitors at the last Olympics and their boxer at 81kg at the qualifier has been knocked out, so from my little reading of it, he would be in pole position to get the place?

Yes but they had 9 athletes in Athens 2004 and it says the average must be 6 or less from the previous 2 Olympics. This works out as an average of 7.

bk2101

Dan man wrote: »

I'm not trying to be smart, but where do you come to that conclusion? I can't see it being stated anywhere that there is an invitation place for a European light-heavyweight boxer.

http://www.aiba.org/en-US/2012/London2012.aspx

The table talking about quotas has (1) for Europe 81kg. Then it says ( ) Tripartite Selection Quota under the table.

Dan man

bk2101 wrote: »

http://www.aiba.org/en-US/2012/London2012.aspx

The table talking about quotas has (1) for Europe 81kg. Then it says ( ) Tripartite Selection Quota under the table.

Thanks for explaining that to me, I wasn't being smart, I actually just couldn't see where it said that. It seems you might be right but it still looks like it is a long shot for Ward as he won't be first in line.

bk2101

Dan man wrote: »

Thanks for explaining that to me, I wasn't being smart, I actually just couldn't see where it said that. It seems you might be right but it still looks like it is a long shot for Ward as he won't be first in line.

Yeah there's probably a million reasons why he won't get the place, but there's at least a chance he will. It will probably end up going to Azerbaijan or something for no good reason in the end!

Dan man

There are no European NOC's from the 2011 World Championships that are elligible for the tripartite invitation place nor are there any elligible from Trabzon. This could be worth following up. I'm gonna read through all the rules and see if I can make any sense of it all.

Dan man

If there is definitely a European Tripartite invitation in the light-heavy category then it could be interesting to see how it goes.

The qualification rules says that all athletes must have competed in a qualifying event and since none of those who have competed in the qualifying events are not elligible for the tripartite invitation then it should be re-distributed to the highest ranked boxer from the 2011 World Champs who did not qualify. Must have a look through the world championships results now.

the_real_lamp

Dan man wrote: »

If there is definitely a European Tripartite invitation in the light-heavy category then it could be interesting to see how it goes.

The qualification rules says that all athletes must have competed in a qualifying event and since none of those who have competed in the qualifying events are not elligible for the tripartite invitation then it should be re-distributed to the highest ranked boxer from the 2011 World Champs who did not qualify. Must have a look through the world championships results now.

You will prob have to wait until the rest of the qualifiers from americas and africa are complete.

'Should the Tripartite Commission not be able to assign the places, the quota place will be allocated to the
next best ranked athlete at the 2011 AIBA Men’s World Boxing Championship, not yet qualied.' is the quote from the pdf.

What the 'next best ranked' mean? The boxer with the highest AIBA world ranking not qualified or the boxer who was nearest to qualifying?

Dan man

The only near certainty is that the Tripartite Commission will not be able to dispense the invitation place meaning that it will go back to the AIBA to distribute. This means that it doesn't matter whether Ireland has applied for a tripartite invitation (which they couldn't do so anyway) because it will not be awarded by them. My limited understanding of the rules is that the wildcard place will probably still be distributed to a European boxer and the rules say it must go to the highest ranked non-qualifier from the 2011 Worlds. This puts Ward, a boxer from Azerbaijan and Bosnia in the reckoning. Azerbaijan can still qualify from Trabzon.
Not sure how it will work out really, would love someone to get the I.A.B.A.'s thoughts on the matter once proceedings have finished in Trabzon.

the_real_lamp

Dan man wrote: »

The only near certainty is that the Tripartite Commission will not be able to dispense the invitation place meaning that it will go back to the AIBA to distribute. This means that it doesn't matter whether Ireland has applied for a tripartite invitation (which they couldn't do so anyway) because it will not be awarded by them. My limited understanding of the rules is that the wildcard place will probably still be distributed to a European boxer and the rules say it must go to the highest ranked non-qualifier from the 2011 Worlds. This puts Ward, a boxer from Azerbaijan and Bosnia in the reckoning. Azerbaijan can still qualify from Trabzon.
Not sure how it will work out really, would love someone to get the I.A.B.A.'s thoughts on the matter once proceedings have finished in Trabzon.

Not unimaginable that lots of lawyers will be involved!

Dan man

the_real_lamp wrote: »

You will prob have to wait until the rest of the qualifiers from americas and africa are complete.

'Should the Tripartite Commission not be able to assign the places, the quota place will be allocated to the
next best ranked athlete at the 2011 AIBA Men’s World Boxing Championship, not yet qualied.' is the quote from the pdf.

What the 'next best ranked' mean? The boxer with the highest AIBA world ranking not qualified or the boxer who was nearest to qualifying?

It also isn't clear whether the wildcard place remains in Europe or not. I think "ranked" means placing at the Worlds.

the_real_lamp

Dan man wrote: »

It also isn't clear whether the wildcard place remains in Europe or not. I think "ranked" means placing at the Worlds.

The wording of the guidelines are quite ambiguous and are quite open to interpreataton. Do AIBA publish a list of rankings after the world champs?

The confusiion is not really that surprising given the job AIBA do.

Dan man

Really worrying to hear that the OCI are publicly dismissing Joe's chance of a wildcard. They state that he can't receive a tripartite invitation.... we already know this, but what they fail to recognise is that it won't be the Tripartite Commission who will award the place in this instance, it will be the AIBA and Joe is elligible under the criteria.

ludermor

From the indo today
''The World Amateur Boxing Association (AIBA) confirmed that there is one invitation place available for Europe in Ward's light-heavyweight class.

But the deadline for applications was January 16 and AIBA will not reveal who applied for these spots before the end of all qualifying events''