Mazda RX8, what to look out for?

mick_ser

Really like the look and feel of the RX8. Think I'm gonna take the plunge have 5-10k to spend. What should I look out for/be wary of? Anyone recommend any that are out there...

Ardennes1944

im sorry MetzgerMeister.....so so sorry...looks like you'll be copying and pasting again


Op, there are many threads on these already, i started the last one i believe (my apologies)

mick_ser

Oh oh i better do a search...sorry guys

Jimbob 83

1.3 Jaysus she will be Claaaaaaaaaaaaaaas on tax boys

eth0

If the compression is gone on the engine. There are apparently very few people who can test the compression of a RX-8 engine but its worth getting checked.

Damokc

whats the deal? the 1.3s get taxed as 1.7 and the 1.7s 2 ltr is it?

pippip

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

1.3 Jaysus she will be Claaaaaaaaaaaaaaas on tax boys

They're 1.3l but afaik they get taxed in the 1.8l bracket for some reason

I'm open to correction

Pottler

the fact that once you start a rotary you should never turn it off until it reaches full operating temperature to avoid unburnt fuel ruining the tip seals would be enough to put me off buying any used rotary in Ireland - just how many Irish owners can you see adhering to that rule?

MetzgerMeister

Pottler wrote: »

the fact that once you start a rotary you should never turn it off until it reaches full operating temperature to avoid unburnt fuel ruining the tip seals would be enough to put me off buying any used rotary in Ireland - just how many Irish owners can you see adhering to that rule?

Unburnt fuel ruining the tip seals?! What in the jaysus are you on about?

The tips are ruined due to oil starvation, not unburnt fuel. The thing unburnt fuel does is it can go into the catalytic converter and decrease its life span.

pippip

My mate went to view one and the forecourt was really congested and the saleman had to edge it forward out of a spot and just turned off the engine.

I wonder how many times he did that, needless to say he walked away immediately.

MetzgerMeister

Here's a post I made on a different thread and for obvious reasons, I'm copying and pasting it here due to laziness It's still relevant to this thread.

It's a great car but you really do have to be an enthusiast to own one. They are not for the fickle hearted, but by the time I sold mine, I had it set up like a normal car other than the mpg.

By that I mean it started first time every time with no hesitation at all. I did have trouble with this issue for a year and half of ownership but I sorted it myself. I did some research, bought all the parts I needed and fitted them myself.

2003, 2004 and early 2005 models came with crap starter motors. Mazda couldn't have done a better job at almost destroying the reputation of the rotary because of this. Once an RX8 has the upgraded starter motor, upgraded battery, ignition coils, HT leads and the hot leading plugs (RE7C-L), and has no compression issues, it will be fine.

A well looked after example will have very few issues if any. Your best bet is to buy one owned by an entusiast i.e. someone on irishrotary.com or the likes.

With regard to oil consumption, the harder you drive it, the more oil it will use. It burns oil as part of the combustion cycle in order to keep the rotor tips lubricated. When a rotary is starved of oil, the tips aren't lubricated and this causes them to fail hence compression issues. It's not what some make it out to be by saying "oh jaysus ya have to put more oil in than petrol". Simply not true. If you're looking at one and are wondering if it's been taken care of, the owner will keep a bottle of oil in the boot or in the boot access panel.

Try to get a compression test done on the one you're really thinking of buying. Drive a few of them and settle on the one you're happiest with. Thing is, there's only a few rotary engine compression tester machines in Ireland which all the mazda dealers here have to share as apparently, they're wicked expensive. You should book a few days in advance with your nearest dealer to make sure they have it on site when you show up.

They are very nice cars to work on, albeit a little cramped in the engine bay but once the engine is cold, nothing to worry about except if you're doing an oil change.

Unlike normal cars, the 8 uses 2 types of plugs - 2 leading (RE7C-L) and 2 trailing (RE9B-T). To buy them from a dealer is rape but I used get mine from the US for $80 + P&P.

I never bothered with calculating MPG when I had it, nor do I bother with the MPS. I just drive how I want and fill up when I have to. "It's nice to have money like that" you say? Well I don't, I just think that calculating mpg takes the fun out of owning a performance car. And if it's a performance car you're after you should get used to this way of thinking too.

The claimed figure of 25mpg is in a simulated environment. If you're expecting to get that in the real world with either the 192 or 232 models, stop thinking that right now

I must say, I really, really miss my RX8. The MPS is great but since it's a big saloon with a 2.3 piston engine, it's not as light or nimble as the 8. I miss not having to slow down in order to take bends

If you are interested in buying one, I would be more than happy to help by answering any questions you have.

Here's a video showing the difference between the original starter and upgraded starter. The starter used in this was manufactured for MazdaRotaryParts but the OEM Mazda one is identical:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xt8_7dl98cY

scamalert

isnt the 1.3l put in the same bracket as 2.3l or something simillar bhp wise,as 1.8-7 would be cheap enough for nearly 240bhp.and yes you cant stop car until its get properly warmed up,so forget quick runs to the shop for milk,also once in a while you have to give it full beans in thrust to top revs to burn some sort of residue or oxidation in the exhaust system Plus those engines are weak in terms of lifelong as most have to be rebuilt at 70-80k miles (well rx7 anyways) ,and in Ireland its pain in the a$$ even to find someone who will bother looking at such engine (besides dealers $_$ ),England have garages who only service rotary engines,but for engine who has a history of drinking oil and being rebuilt every so often its waste of money as the car wont be worth much in few years,there's already rx8 selling below 4k,when proper engine rebuilt costs more then that :cool: (sorry some words might be inaccurate as English isn't my first language and everything here is based on what i read or heard so take it as you want it ) but you you do go for one only look at the 228bhp.Also a note they are no longer made,as mazda decided theres not enough interest in them to be worth producing them anymore,if not for troubles they give me thinks

Pottler

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Unburnt fuel ruining the tip seals?! What in the jaysus are you on about?

The tips are ruined due to oil starvation, not unburnt fuel. The thing unburnt fuel does is it can go into the catalytic converter and decrease its life span.

What am I on about?:D Thats a good reason never to buy a used rotary in Ireland:D Mazda themselves strongly advise that the engine, once started, is run to operating temperature before being stopped. All wankel types should never be stopped before reaching running temperature. If thats news, sorry, but it is what it is. And the reason is, unburnt unleaded fecks the tips:)

cabrwab

Great post as always MetzgerMeister with regards the RX8.

pippip

The rx8 production was stopped in 2011. In 2010 it was taken off the European market due to emissions standards which it failed to meet.

MetzgerMeister

pippip wrote: »

The rx8 production was stopped in 2011. In 2010 it was taken off the European market due to emissions standards which it failed to meet.

This is true. It was removed from sale in Ireland in mid 2008/2009 when the new CC based tax system came in.

alanmc

My manager has a 192 RX8. His commute to work is so short he has to do a few laps of Park West to get it up to temp. Hehehehe.

MetzgerMeister

alanmc wrote: »

My manager has a 192 RX8. His commute to work is so short he has to do a few laps of Park West to get it up to temp. Hehehehe.

Either he doesn't have the ignition system upgraded or the engine has compression issues, otherwise he wouldn't have to do that at all.

alanmc

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Either he doesn't have the ignition system upgraded or the engine has compression issues, otherwise he wouldn't have to do that at all.

It was a little tongue in cheek. On a serious note, compression in his engine is fine. It's serviced regularly and looked after well. He's had no problems at all with it really. And the fact he's keeping an eye on the temp during his short commute seems to bear this out.

Darksaga87

Just curious, Ive been using mazda for a few years, ive always wanted the Rx8, family has been the only reaon i haven't gotten one, mazda 6 is my current motor.

But, how would the rx8 work as a family car? With its 5 doors, would it be practical?

MetzgerMeister

Darksaga87 wrote: »

Just curious, Ive been using mazda for a few years, ive always wanted the Rx8, family has been the only reaon i haven't gotten one, mazda 6 is my current motor.

But, how would the rx8 work as a family car? With its 5 doors, would it be practical?

It wouldn't be a great family car tbh. The room in the back, while good, isn't comfortable on long journeys. Friends of mine often left a bit claustrophobic on long runs.

Since you're coming from a 6, your rear passengers will notice a lot less room in the RX8. With that said, it does come with isofix as standard and there is loads of access for a baby seat.

ShadowHearth

Rx8 is fantastic car, but deck I am afraid of them. I am petrolhead, but it's a bit too much for me.

Did they improved starters and other mentioned things from 06++? Or any rx8 you get, you will need to look in to those things?

So you need to have it always fully warmed up, before turning it off? Does it take long to heat her up? I guess, it's better to have it warmed up, before driving too?

MetzgerMeister

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Rx8 is fantastic car, but deck I am afraid of them. I am petrolhead, but it's a bit too much for me.

Did they improved starters and other mentioned things from 06++? Or any rx8 you get, you will need to look in to those things?

So you need to have it always fully warmed up, before turning it off? Does it take long to heat her up? I guess, it's better to have it warmed up, before driving too?

Take a look at post #11 on the first page of this thread

Nonoperational

Just be absolutely certain you get a compression test done before you buy.

Darksaga87

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

It wouldn't be a great family car tbh. The room in the back, while good, isn't comfortable on long journeys. Friends of mine often left a bit claustrophobic on long runs.

Since you're coming from a 6, your rear passengers will notice a lot less room in the RX8. With that said, it does come with isofix as standard and there is loads of access for a baby seat.

Still have a serious want for one. Test drove a 07 today. And tried to fit the car seat, a bit tricky with the leather.

Pottler

Couple of RX8 facts that always get dismissed but are facts none the less:). 1. Never start the engine and then turn off until engine has reached operating temperature. Unburnt petrol will cause Rotor seal damage due to petrol washout. Thats Mazdas advice, not mine. They state*Must Not". It is cast in stone for longevity from one of these motors. Same goes for tow starting-uh oh-don't go there. If some twats been starting and moving it short distances regularily, or looks blank when you ask them about this, walk away.
2. Never use Fully/Semi synthetic oil - those who know(inc Mazda) advise 5w30 mineral ONLY for the Renesis(Aug 03- July 08) or you will get engine damaging deposits. They also use a fair bit of oil (as part of their nature/design)so check at every second fuel fill up at least.
Apart from that, screaming car, brilliant fun, 22mpg realistic best, 10mpg easily attainable:D, you'll need a clutch at some stage and it can be dear, the lower power models are probably more fun(still 189 bhp) and if it feels squishy going round bends, do the ARB links.

Darksaga87

Is there anyway to check when dealing with a car dealer how the car has been treated?

Pottler

In a word - starting. Start it from stone cold, start it from hot. It should not be a hard starter - Mazda revised the starter for a heavier, uprated item-mostly done under warranty so if it is hard to start that usually(almost always)points to poor rotor compression and getting a rebuild WILL be pricey enough and is also a pure shot in the dark as to what will be required once it is stripped down and inspected properly. Parts for rebuilding are dear, usually a wait and getting a lad that knows what he is looking for is touch and go. Throw your eye on the exhaust fumes as well - smokey is no goodey. But, despite all that, these are my kids favorite cars and they whinge constantly at me to get another whenever we see one on the road. Very, very good fun. Kinda like an Alfa - love it loath it sort of a deal. And feck all happens at lower revs, the motor has to be really revving for the car to come alive.

unkel

Pottler wrote: »

2. Never use Fully/Semi synthetic oil - those who know(inc Mazda) advise 5w30 mineral ONLY for the Renesis(Aug 03- July 08) or you will get engine damaging deposits.

That's a new one to me

Pottler

unkel wrote: »

That's a new one to me

Every Mazda specialist(on rotairies) now sticks to 5w30 mineral - even Mazda changed their oil spec from the original semi-synthetic spec. to mineral. BUT, buy a bloody good 5w30 Mineral, not the cheapo stuff.:) If you get any more than 20k out of a clutch, you're not trying hard enough;-) Oh, and if its got xenons fitted, TEST them - Irelands wet climate leaks in and fecks them and they cost a small fortune for newies... usually only the 227hp models have those though.

Darksaga87

smokey is no goodey

Lots of smoke came out of the one i was looking at. this was after it needed to be jump started.

Pottler

Darksaga87 wrote: »

Lots of smoke came out of the one i was looking at. this was after it needed to be jump started.

Could be as innocent as a flat battery, but personally, PASS.:)

Viper_JB

Actually sellin mine at the moment,:( gonna miss it but just after getting myself a 535D so it's not all bad. Just to Potter there, Mazda approved the use of fully synthetic oil on the regenesis engines, that mineral oil thing is for Rx7's and older rotary engine types.

MetzgerMeister

Viper_JB wrote: »

Actually sellin mine at the moment,:( gonna miss it but just after getting myself a 535D so it's not all bad. Just to Potter there, Mazda approved the use of fully synthetic oil on the regenesis engines, that mineral oil thing is for Rx7's and older rotary engine types.

Exactly! They originally intended on using mineral oil with the renesis but then changed it to fully synthetic.

BTW, you could have at least washed it!! I'd ask for more than that if I were you. I got 8K for mine and it had no leather, no rear fog light, no sat nav, nothing!

ShadowHearth

Rx8 are so cheap now. I would so love one, but feck my bangornomics ford made me lazy . I won't be able to look after rx8

Viper_JB

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Exactly! They originally intended on using mineral oil with the renesis but then changed it to fully synthetic.

BTW, you could have at least washed it!! I'd ask for more than that if I were you. I got 8K for mine and it had no leather, no rear fog light, no sat nav, nothing!

Ya I know, been terrible weather recently and been busy sorting out the new car but I intend on giving it a proper going over Sunday, will take some new pics then and throw them up. Just wanted to get something up there as I now have 3 cars :rolleyes: ,drive way is getting a little full, I'd keep em all if I could afford to.

I'd like to be asking for more but not much interest in them at the moment with the price of petrol and stuff, so priced to sell at the moment.

Pottler

Viper_JB wrote: »

Actually sellin mine at the moment,:( gonna miss it but just after getting myself a 535D so it's not all bad. Just to Potter there, Mazda approved the use of fully synthetic oil on the regenesis engines, that mineral oil thing is for Rx7's and older rotary engine types.

Not so, originally Mazda specced synthetic, revised to "advise semi-synthetic" then went to mineral. The current recommended for the Renesis RX8 (-2008)is mineral.:)

unkel

Wow that's some turn to recommend fully synth, then semi, then mineral :eek:

Have you any link to that, Pottler?

Alanstrainor

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Rx8 are so cheap now. I would so love one, but feck my bangornomics ford made me lazy . I won't be able to look after rx8

That's a lie and you know it:D

Get one and take me for a spin!

ShadowHearth

Alanstrainor wrote: »

That's a lie and you know it:D

Get one and take me for a spin!

Not a car for me, too many doors!

Pottler

unkel wrote: »

Wow that's some turn to recommend fully synth, then semi, then mineral :eek:

Have you any link to that, Pottler?

Issue is varnishing and deposition Unkle - after numerous (ha, more like floods) of warranty issues Mazda now recommend mineral only on ALL rotaries. Synthetic is a big no no. Link? Ha, I'm older and type with two fingers - I get quite pleased when I manage to quote someone without feckin it up. Kelsey publishing did a "Survival guide" to RX8s a few months ago which was very good and covered all the main points thoroughly and way more eloquently than I could but was bang on the money. Basically you are buying a supercar at supermini prices but there are pitfalls and even a lot of owners are woefully unaware of some of the issues with Mazda Wankel type engines. Personally I think they are delicious but temperamental and I will probably buy another before the year is out. I love the shape, I love the engines quirkiness but I also know you buy with your heart, not your head. Apart from an x8 I'd only get excited by a big engined Alfa - I absolutely love them because of what they are trying to do, not because of the perfection of execution.

MetzgerMeister

Pottler - there's more than 1 Mazda to get excited about

Pottler

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Pottler - there's more than 1 Mazda to get excited about

My first car was a 323F:D I loved it! Sow on fuel, insurance was mad but it was solid as a rock and stylish. I worked for Checquered flag in London and got to drive Alfa Spyders, Dinos, Souped Beetles and some lovely Alfa Saloons, it ruined me for cars so I drive a econobox as a daily and like to get (and change a lot!) somthing fun to go off with my boys on a sunday. Their all time favorite is the RX but the fight for who gets to sit in the front was unreal - the back was deffo second class! Actually , the current whinge is to get a Skyline for a few months(I'm informed) so it's Japscrap on Donedeal for the next couple of weeks!

MetzgerMeister

I had a JDM 2004 RX8 for 2.5 years. I now have a 6MPS and have it a year. There's something about Mazdas that has me kind of addicted

ShadowHearth

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

I had a JDM 2004 RX8 for 2.5 years. I now have a 6MPS and have it a year. There's something about Mazdas that has me kind of addicted

I always said that others cars will be sold, but not mx5. Mazda just has that thing that puts a smile on your face

unkel

Lots of Mazda love in here

None the wiser we are about the oils though. are we?

MetzgerMeister

unkel wrote: »

Lots of Mazda love in here

None the wiser we are about the oils though. are we?

As far as I'm concerned, I always used fully synthetic. When I had mine I did a lot of reading up on it and I saw that they changed their minds from mineral oil.

I would like to see an official statement from Mazda stating the use of mineral oil. No offence Pottler but you gotta prove it

Nonoperational

It's mineral oil they use for main dealer services anyway. Caltrol GTX in a white bottle I think.

shaunandelly

A mate of mine had one . Had more problems leaving it at off site airport car parking sites where they move the vehicles around until he finally sussed out with the dealer about the starting procedure.

jenizzle

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I always said that others cars will be sold, but not mx5. Mazda just has that thing that puts a smile on your face

I sold my MX5 for an RX8 The smile has remained the same.

Regarding the oil - I always use Fuchs Titan XTR 5w-30 from Opie Oils. Seems to be the most common used amongst RX8 peeps.

Pottler

The whole "what oil" thing is fairly complicated because of the fact that rotaries burn a certain amount of engine oil during combustion as part of their design - it literally mixes with the fuel and gets ignited as part of the combustion cycle. Ideally the oil getting burnt would burn cleanly, but synthetic oil is designed to resist burn so when it's forced to combust, it producer sh1tty residues, so it's not like in any other type of engine.
Where it gets complicated is the issue of pre-mix whereby some 2-stroke oil is deliberatly mixed into the fuel tank to replace the "ingested" engine oil and the pre-mix chamber is isolated from the engines own oil so that now the engine oil is only lube-ing the bearings etc and not being combusted. The added 2-stroke replaces the engine oil as a combustion chamber lubricant and thus the process is very clean. But, unless the pre-mix chamber has been bypassed (which most Irish cars are not) you are better off with mineral oil as it does not resist burn or produce residues to anything like the extent of synthetic.
Ideally you would by-pass the pre-mix/"sump" chamber and have pre-lubed fuel going into the engine, THEN, use fully synthetic oil in the sump as it is a far better High-rev lubricant than mineral. The fly in the ointment is the combustion cycle - unless the pre-mix chamber is bypassed, Mineral oil is better(ie in a standard engine) - if it's bypassed, go Synthetic. If ya get my drift! Oh and the earlier seals were crap at resisting synthetic oil as well but Mazda upgraded them on the Renesis to allow synthetic use. Soo, nothing complicated about that, eh.:)