Ireland Tour to New Zealand 2012 Discussion thread

TheKeenMachine

Ok, so off the back of a somewhat disappointing Six Nations campaign, Kidney's men will be heading to New Zealand to attempt to record a first victory against the All Blacks this summer.
Tour Itinerary
JUNE 2012
Sat 9th Jun 12
F New Zealand v Ireland Eden Park
Sat 16th Jun 12
F New Zealand v Ireland Rugby League Park
Sat 23rd Jun 12
F New Zealand v Ireland Waikato Stadium

Does anyone think Ireland will break their duck against the ABs or will it be three losses in a row?
In terms of squad selection, I hope that Kidney will experiment a little bit with some young players such as Ian Madigan or Simon Zebo and phase out some of the older campaigners.
If I were to pick a 30 man squad to travel, it would look something like this:
PROPS: Cian Healy; Mike Ross; Marcus Horan; Stephen Archer
HOOKERS: Rory Best; Sean Cronin; Damien Varley
SECOND ROWS: O'Connell; Donncha Ryan; Dan Tuohy
BACK ROWS: Stephen Ferris; Sean O'Brien; Peter O'Mahony;Kevin McLaughlin; Dominic Ryan; Chris Henry; Jamie Heaslip
SCRUM HALVES: Isaac Boss; Conor Murray
OUT HALVES: Jonny Sexton; Ian Madigan; ROG
CENTRES: BOD; Keith Earls; Fergus McFadden; Eoin O'Malley
BACK THREE: Rob Kearney; Simon Zebo; Andrew Trimble; Denis Hurley

Anyway let me know your thoughts on the tour and the squad

Hagz

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

PROPS: Cian Healy; Mike Ross; Marcus Horan; Stephen Archer
HOOKERS: Rory Best; Sean Cronin; Damien Varley
SECOND ROWS: O'Connell; Donncha Ryan; Dan Tuohy
BACK ROWS: Stephen Ferris; Sean O'Brien; Peter O'Mahony;Kevin McLaughlin; Dominic Ryan; Chris Henry; Jamie Heaslip
SCRUM HALVES: Isaac Boss; Conor Murray
OUT HALVES: Jonny Sexton; Ian Madigan; ROG
CENTRES: BOD; Keith Earls; Fergus McFadden; Eoin O'Malley
BACK THREE: Rob Kearney; Simon Zebo; Andrew Trimble; Denis Hurley

Anyway let me know your thoughts on the tour and the squad

Just looking at your squad
I wouldn't take Archer. I'd take Macklin if we're to take a young tight-head.

Don't think Ryan deserves to travel based on how little he's featured this season, I think Coughlan deserves to travel ahead of him, although Coughlan is injured so if he can't go I'd like to see Ruddock go instead.

How you can leave out Reddan is beyond me

Doubt he'll leave D'Arcy behind, I'd also take Wallace and Cave and have McFadden travel as wing option(not that I'd play him on the wing, I'd have him come as a centre who can cover wing)

Looking at your back-three makes me grimace. Hurley shouldn't go, nor should Zebo.

My choice
LH: Healy, Court
HK: Best, Cronin, Sherry
TH: Ross, Macklin
LK: O'Connell, Ryan, Tuohy, O'Callaghan
FK: Ferris, O'Brien, Henry, O'Mahony
N8: Heaslip, Coughlan
SH: Reddan, Boss, Murray
OH: Sexton, Madigan, O'Gara
CT: D'Arcy, Wallace, Cave, O'Driscoll
WG: Earls, Trimble, Fitzgerald, McFadden
FB: Kearney, Jones

CIARAN_BOYLE

Who'd be your bench prop? No one there comes close to covering both sides, I know Court isn't a good TH but him or Loughney are the only options that do cover both sides. Also I'd rate Horan as the fifth best Irish LH so I wouldn't be picking him at all, especially due to his age. Archer is very raw at the moment, got demolished for Ireland A earlier in the season. I'd bring Hagan or Macklin or Loghney ahead of him if I wanted a TH backup option.

I'd have Sherry ahead of Varley as a hooker.

Way to many backrowers in that squad, seven and two second rows that have experience in the backrow. I'd cut out Domonic Ryan and possibly McLaughlin as well. I'd bring Toner or McCarthy as another lock.

I'd add in Redden since he is Ireland's best performing scrumhalf and I can't see a reason to drop him.

Also in the center why three 13s and a 12 who has played a lot at 13.

No way would I bring Hurley not good enough for international rugby, I would bring Fitzgerald who is in good form instead of him. Maybe Jones as well if he recaptures last years form between now and the end of the season. While Zebo has potential I'd rate Kearney and Gilroy ahead of him as young talents.

Props Ross Healy Wilkinson Loughney
Hookers Best Cronin Sherry
Locks POC Ryan Tuohy Toner
Backrow SOB Ferris Heaslip POM Henry
SH Redden Murray Boss
OH Sexton Madigan ROG
Centers BOD, McFadden, Cave, Wallace
Backthree Fitzgerald Kearney Trimble Gilroy

WeeBushy

Based on a 30 man squad this is what I'd pick.

Props: Healy, Ross, Court, Hayes (:p I'll get back to the 4th prop)

Hookers: Best, Cronin, Sherry

2nd Rows: O'Connell, Ryan, Touhy, Toner (although DOC will travel instead of Toner)

Back Row: O'Brien, Ferris, Heaslip, O'Mahony, Henry

Scrum Half: Reddan, Murray

Out Half: Sexton, O'Gara, Madigan

Centre: D'Arcy, O'Driscoll, Earls, Cave

Wing: Gilroy, Trimble, Fitgerald

Full Back: Kearney, Jones

Might be a little lob sided but I wanted to include all the players I want to see given a chance. And it would force Kidney to try something different if there was an injury!

CIARAN_BOYLE

WeeBushy wrote: »

Wing: Bowe, Trimble, Fitgerald

Bowe is injured and will miss the tour

WeeBushy

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Props Ross Healy Wilkinson Loughney
Hookers Best Cronin Sherry
Locks POC Ryan Tuohy Toner
Backrow SOB Ferris Heaslip POM Henry
SH Redden Murray Boss
OH Sexton Madigan ROG
Centers BOD, McFadden, Cave, Wallace
Backthree Fitzgerald Kearney Trimble Gilroy

No Earls or Bowe?

WeeBushy

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Bowe is injured and will miss the tour

Oops, I had blocked that out of my memory

CatFromHue

It's hard to know how we'll get in to be honest as I'm not sure about what we'll be up against. Two of the biggest recruiting grounds for the All Blacks in the Super 15's aren't doing too great at the moment. The Auckland Blues have only won 1 from 6 and today Mealamu publicly stated his disappointment in the physical state of Weepu, seemingly Weepu came back from holidays over weight and is still not of the fitness level required. The Crusaders are doing better but are still only 3 from 6.

Then there is the fact that Carter is only coming back from injury now, McCaw is still not back, Colin Slade is out for the season, and so is Kaino.

Also the Kiwi's don't expect much from us and the 3 tests could be a bit of RWC trophy parade.

What state we'll be in is a different matter.

Deano7788

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

Ok, so off the back of a somewhat disappointing Six Nations campaign, Kidney's men will be heading to New Zealand to attempt to record a first victory against the All Blacks this summer.
Tour Itinerary
JUNE 2012
Sat 9th Jun 12
F New Zealand v Ireland Eden Park
Sat 16th Jun 12
F New Zealand v Ireland Rugby League Park
Sat 23rd Jun 12
F New Zealand v Ireland Waikato Stadium

Does anyone think Ireland will break their duck against the ABs or will it be three losses in a row?
In terms of squad selection, I hope that Kidney will experiment a little bit with some young players such as Ian Madigan or Simon Zebo and phase out some of the older campaigners.
If I were to pick a 30 man squad to travel, it would look something like this:
PROPS: Cian Healy; Mike Ross; Marcus Horan; Stephen Archer
HOOKERS: Rory Best; Sean Cronin; Damien Varley
SECOND ROWS: O'Connell; Donncha Ryan; Dan Tuohy
BACK ROWS: Stephen Ferris; Sean O'Brien; Peter O'Mahony;Kevin McLaughlin; Dominic Ryan; Chris Henry; Jamie Heaslip
SCRUM HALVES: Isaac Boss; Conor Murray
OUT HALVES: Jonny Sexton; Ian Madigan; ROG
CENTRES: BOD; Keith Earls; Fergus McFadden; Eoin O'Malley
BACK THREE: Rob Kearney; Simon Zebo; Andrew Trimble; Denis Hurley

Anyway let me know your thoughts on the tour and the squad

I'd have Court and Hagan in place of Horan and Archer, and I'd like to see Sherry in place of Varley, although it probably won't happen.

I think your squad would be too light on 2nd rows and 2 top heavy with back rows. 1 injury and we'd be stuck. I'd leave McLaughlin and Ryan at home and bring McCarthy instead, who can also cover backrow if needed along with Ryan.

For scrum half, I'd bring Reddan and Marshall ahead of Boss. I'd have Reddan as 1st choice and think Marshall would be the perfect sub to bring off the bench.

I think your centres are unbalanced imo with only 1 12. so I'd leave out O'Malley and bring Wallace. I'd also probably drop ROG and bring Cave. I really don't see the point in bringing ROG as if he's to come on to "close out the game", the match will probably already be lost. Madigan imo would make a bigger impact off the bench, while Cave would be a good back up to BOD with Earls as a utility back.

I'd also swap Hurley and Zebo for Fitzgerald and Gilroy/D.Kearney. Hurley just doesn't have the pace for international rugby, while Fitzgerald is the in form wing in Ireland. Gilroy/Kearney are more complete wings than Zebo at the moment.

To be honest, if we're to have any chance of winning a match, it'll have to be the 1st test, when the All Blacks are still getting used to playing with each others, as there'll a good few changes to the team. After that, though, I think we'll struggle.

Judgement Day

Three straight losses I suspect but despite my infatuation with the All Blacks I'd be more than happy to see Ireland break the duck.

Hagz

Judgement Day wrote: »

Three straight losses I suspect but despite my infatuation with the All Blacks I'd be more than happy to see Ireland break the duck.

I presume you've been keeping up to date with the S15 Judge(I haven't). How wrong is my expected XV ?
1. Woodcock
2. Hore
3. Franks
4. Whitelock
5. Williams
6. Kaino
7. McCaw
8. Reid
9. Hurricanes 9? What's his name?
10. Carter
11. Gear
12. Nonu
13. Smith
14. Jane
15. Dagg

ray jay

At first I was surprised that people weren't including more inside centres in their selections but then I remembered we have Sexton to cover that now

CIARAN_BOYLE

WeeBushy wrote: »

No Earls or Bowe?

Earls probably will make it, most likely ahead of Gilroy who was my experimental choice on the wing or Wallace (with BOD or Fitzgerald covering 12) or McFadden since Kidney doesn't seem to rate him at 12 or Cave. Or else a bigger touring party will be brought than 30.

TBH I think Cave is the better 13 and if Earls only plays there between now and the end of the season it might be wrong to bring him as a winger but I think he will make it ahead of Cave/McFadden/Wallace/Gilroy.

RoundBox11

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

Ok, so off the back of a somewhat disappointing Six Nations campaign, Kidney's men will be heading to New Zealand to attempt to record a first victory against the All Blacks this summer.
Tour Itinerary
JUNE 2012
Sat 9th Jun 12
F New Zealand v Ireland Eden Park
Sat 16th Jun 12
F New Zealand v Ireland Rugby League Park
Sat 23rd Jun 12
F New Zealand v Ireland Waikato Stadium

Does anyone think Ireland will break their duck against the ABs or will it be three losses in a row?
In terms of squad selection, I hope that Kidney will experiment a little bit with some young players such as Ian Madigan or Simon Zebo and phase out some of the older campaigners.
If I were to pick a 30 man squad to travel, it would look something like this:
PROPS: Cian Healy; Mike Ross; Marcus Horan; Stephen Archer
HOOKERS: Rory Best; Sean Cronin; Damien Varley
SECOND ROWS: O'Connell; Donncha Ryan; Dan Tuohy
BACK ROWS: Stephen Ferris; Sean O'Brien; Peter O'Mahony;Kevin McLaughlin; Dominic Ryan; Chris Henry; Jamie Heaslip
SCRUM HALVES: Isaac Boss; Conor Murray
OUT HALVES: Jonny Sexton; Ian Madigan; ROG
CENTRES: BOD; Keith Earls; Fergus McFadden; Eoin O'Malley
BACK THREE: Rob Kearney; Simon Zebo; Andrew Trimble; Denis Hurley

Anyway let me know your thoughts on the tour and the squad

Thanks for starting the thread!

I respect your opinion and all but i hope to god that none of the players in bold above come near the plane to NZ.

Id replace Horan with any of: Court, Wilkinson, Loughney, McAllister, McGrath.

I'd rather see Loughney instead of Archer anyways and i'd probably rather have Hagan or Andress instead of Archer but neither have a chance really.

No Eoin Reddan either??

I'd like to see Felix Jones ahead of Hurley and i think Fitzgerald and Gilroy has more than earned his place ahead of Zebo.

.ak

Choice for 9 will be interesting allright. Weepu has been a bit of a joke lately.

.ak

To be honest I don't know why there's even enough interest in this to start a thread on this.

I find it incredibly hard to get excited/interested in anything in regarding the Irish setup whilst the IRFU/coaching setup remains the way it is.

When Stuart Barnes if even calling it how it is, you know things are bad.

TheKeenMachine

Hagz wrote: »

Just looking at your squad
I wouldn't take Archer. I'd take Macklin if we're to take a young tight-head.

Don't think Ryan deserves to travel based on how little he's featured this season, I think Coughlan deserves to travel ahead of him, although Coughlan is injured so if he can't go I'd like to see Ruddock go instead.

How you can leave out Reddan is beyond me

Doubt he'll leave D'Arcy behind, I'd also take Wallace and Cave and have McFadden travel as wing option(not that I'd play him on the wing, I'd have him come as a centre who can cover wing)

Looking at your back-three makes me grimace. Hurley shouldn't go, nor should Zebo.

My choice
LH: Healy, Court
HK: Best, Cronin, Sherry
TH: Ross, Macklin
LK: O'Connell, Ryan, Tuohy, O'Callaghan
FK: Ferris, O'Brien, Henry, O'Mahony
N8: Heaslip, Coughlan
SH: Reddan, Boss, Murray
OH: Sexton, Madigan, O'Gara
CT: D'Arcy, Wallace, Cave, O'Driscoll
WG: Earls, Trimble, Fitzgerald, McFadden
FB: Kearney, Jones

Deano7788 wrote: »

I'd have Court and Hagan in place of Horan and Archer, and I'd like to see Sherry in place of Varley, although it probably won't happen.

I think your squad would be too light on 2nd rows and 2 top heavy with back rows. 1 injury and we'd be stuck. I'd leave McLaughlin and Ryan at home and bring McCarthy instead, who can also cover backrow if needed along with Ryan.

For scrum half, I'd bring Reddan and Marshall ahead of Boss. I'd have Reddan as 1st choice and think Marshall would be the perfect sub to bring off the bench.

I think your centres are unbalanced imo with only 1 12. so I'd leave out O'Malley and bring Wallace. I'd also probably drop ROG and bring Cave. I really don't see the point in bringing ROG as if he's to come on to "close out the game", the match will probably already be lost. Madigan imo would make a bigger impact off the bench, while Cave would be a good back up to BOD with Earls as a utility back.

I'd also swap Hurley and Zebo for Fitzgerald and Gilroy/D.Kearney. Hurley just doesn't have the pace for international rugby, while Fitzgerald is the in form wing in Ireland. Gilroy/Kearney are more complete wings than Zebo at the moment.

To be honest, if we're to have any chance of winning a match, it'll have to be the 1st test, when the All Blacks are still getting used to playing with each others, as there'll a good few changes to the team. After that, though, I think we'll struggle.

I think picking between Archer, Hagan and Macklin is a matter of preference. IMO Tom Court has never been good enough to play Test rugby and it would be a waste of a plane ticket to bring him, much rather see Horan, who is a much better scrummager, but I forgot about Brett Wilkinson who is better than them both. However, While I agree Dominic Ryan has been lacking in game time, I would like to see his development and would pick him regardless. McLaughlin would be my second row option as opposed to McCarthy.

Completely forgot about Reddan, mea culpa. Marshall was a tight call but I decided to plump for Boss.

IMO Paddy Wallace is also overrated and not Test quality although it may be an idea to bring Cave as opposed to ROG. I like Hurley, and I reckon he deserves a chance to shine with Ireland. I also believe that Zebo is possibly the brightest talent in Ireland and we have to bring him. Gilroy and Fitzy do deserve a shout though.

thomond2006

.ak wrote: »

Choice for 9 will be interesting allright. Weepu has been a bit of a joke lately.

He was owned by Mealamu in the media today for turning up to pre season in an awful state of fitness. Hasn't been making the Blues starting line up lately either.

For the Ireland squad (30) I'd go for:

(16)

Hookers: Best, Cronin, Sherry

Props: Healy, Court, Ross, Loughney (no other choice really!)

Locks: POC, Tuohy, Ryan, Toner

Backrows: Ferris, SOB, POM, Henry, Heaslip

(14)

9s: Reddan, Murray, Marshall

10s: Sexton, Madigan, ROG

Centres: Wallace, McFadden, Cave, BOD, Earls

Wingers: Fitzgerald, Trimble, Gilroy

Fullbacks: Kearney

But tbh we're ****ed!!

Judgement Day

Hagz wrote: »

I presume you've been keeping up to date with the S15 Judge(I haven't). How wrong is my expected XV ?
1. Woodcock
2. Hore
3. Franks
4. Whitelock
5. Williams
6. Kaino
7. McCaw....still not back.
8. Reid
9. Hurricanes 9? What's his name? Weepu (Blues) but he's not going well so far this season.
10. Carter
11. Gear or Guilford
12. Nonu
13. Smith
14. Jane
15. Dagg

I'll be honest I haven't been able to watch much of it and have been going on highlights and press reports. Dan Carter is obviously key and last week took on kicking duties again in the game against the Bulls. That bodes well for them but bad for us.

RoundBox11

I'm actually really looking forward to this. Last time we played the All Blacks we really stood up well, even though we were missing some key players. My squad 32 man squad would be:


Props: Healy, Ross, Court, Loughney, Hagan

Hookers: Best, Cronin, Sherry

2nd Row: O'Connell, Ryan, Tuohy, Toner (although i know DOC will be there. Tbh i think DOC would do a good job anyway so i wouldnt be too upset to see him there).

Back Row: Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip, O'Mahony, Henry

Scrum Halves: Reddan, Murray

Out Halves: Sexton, ROG, Madigan

Centres: BOD, McFadden, O'Malley, Cave (BOD being able to cover 12 aswell)

Wings: Earls, Trimble, Fitzgerald, Gilroy

Fullback: Kearney, Jones


I think we will have at least one good close match. I don't see why we couldnt beat them. I mean no team is forever unbeatable and i wouldn't say this is the strongest All Black squad ever. . .

Hagz

I think it's harsh on Court to say he's not Test quality. True, he's a fairly average player, but I think he has to travel. He's part of a Ulster team that is now in the HC SF and he has a part to play in that. Horan is definitely not Test level. The guy had to back up against Ross until they both got sin-binned. Wilkinson is a very untested player though I would have no qualms about him traveling. If I had to drop Court for someone, it would be Loughney, just because he could be more "ambipropsterous'.

Wallace is not one of my favorite players, but D'Arcy has been so out of form in green that Wallace arguably deserves a shot ahead of him.

Hagz

Judgement Day wrote: »

I'll be honest I haven't been able to watch much of it and have been going on highlights and press reports. Dan Carter is obviously key and last week took on kicking duties again in the game against the Bulls. That bodes well for them but bad for us.

TJ Perenara was the scrum-half I was trying to think of. Apparently Weepu has been muck lately.

its_phil

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

I think picking between Archer, Hagan and Macklin is a matter of preference. IMO Tom Court has never been good enough to play Test rugby and it would be a waste of a plane ticket to bring him, much rather see Horan, who is a much better scrummager, but I forgot about Brett Wilkinson who is better than them both.

Loughney is the best option for the sub prop role right now in my opinion. He's a natural loosehead who is consistently playing at tight head and doing an extremely good job. Think you are being very harsh on Court, until the IRB introduce 23 subs he's always going to struggle at TH. He's capable on LH. Expecting a LH who is not even playing at TH for Ulster (open to correction) to produce wonders against a very good England front row in the hardest role on a rugby field is far too ambitious.

thebaz

Hagz wrote: »

I think it's harsh on Court to say he's not Test quality.

Harsh ????? - more like the truth

irishbucsfan

thebaz wrote: »

Hagz wrote: »

I think it's harsh on Court to say he's not Test quality.

Harsh ????? - more like the truth

At loosehead he is excellent. Showed that last weekend.

Podge_irl

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

IMO Tom Court has never been good enough to play Test rugby and it would be a waste of a plane ticket to bring him, much rather see Horan, who is a much better scrummager

Tom Court is easily as good as Horan at loosehead and obviously leagues ahead of him at tighthead. The rap Court gets is ridiculous - he is a decent test standard loosehead. He is a sub standard tight head but the only options for a bench prop are him or Loughney.

its_phil

thebaz wrote: »

Harsh ????? - more like the truth

On the evidence of what outside him playing TH?

Hagz

thebaz wrote: »

Harsh ????? - more like the truth

If Court isn't test quality for Ireland, then Horan isn't quality enough to wear an Elverys Ireland jersey. Court is streaks ahead of Horan and any other LH in this country outside Healy atm.

CiaranMT

Why only 30? They'll be playing a few midweek matches over there too, no?

Piliger

The last tour was the depth of embarrassment. But I fear this one may be even worse ...

Podge_irl

CiaranMT wrote: »

Why only 30? They'll be playing a few midweek matches over there too, no?

Nope, just 3 tests.

Think it might be a 32 man squad personally, just for that bit extra back up. Only the first XV will get any real game time though.

its_phil

Piliger wrote: »

The last tour was the depth of embarrassment. But I fear this one may be even worse ...

I don't think we'll win. But it'll be better than having 14 men on the pitch against 15 all blacks. Unless Jamie gets another rush of blood to the head!

I'd say it'll b within 12 on two and over 20 in one

TheKeenMachine

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

I think picking between Archer, Hagan and Macklin is a matter of preference. IMO Tom Court has never been good enough to play Test rugby and it would be a waste of a plane ticket to bring him, much rather see Horan, who is a much better scrummager, but I forgot about Brett Wilkinson who is better than them both.

Archer
Hagan
Macklin

All tight heads. Macklin the only one that's not had his head shoved into his arse all season of the three. Macklin and McAllister (as kids basically) have been a solid scrum up north this year when called upon.

Court
Horan

Looseheads. I have no idea how you could possibly choose Horan ahead of Court here. Evidence of Horan's inability to scrummage on the loosehead side would be the recent Munster v Leinster game in Thomond Park. He is no longer dynamic in the loose, and is way off the pace. Court has been part of a destructive scrum and is an absolute work horse in the loose. He also, in times of requirement, can fill a hole at tight head. This is not his primary role however.

bilston

Based on a 30 man squad (and my opinion probably changes week on week to be fair!). As of today I'd go with this:

PROPS
Cian Healy - no brainer
Mike Ross - no brainer
Tom Court - struggled at TH against England but can still do well at LH
John Andress - just really throwing a name out there in fairness! I don't think either Macklin or Archer are ready though

HOOKERS
Rory Best - no brainer
Sean Cronin - no brainer
Mike Sherry - may have overtaken Varley now at Munster so on that basis should tour ahead of him

LOCKS
Donacha O'Callaghan - I don't think he's finished yet, IMO the clamour for Ryan's inclusion was based on him playing well rather than DOC not
Paul O'Connell - no brainer
Donnacha Ryan - no brainer
Dan Tuohy - I don't think Deccie can continuen top ignore Tuohy now, good lineout operator and excellent carrier, maybe best used as an impact sub for now though.

BACK ROWS
Stephen Ferris - no brainer unless his knee is giving him problems in which case a summer off mightn't be the worst idea in the world
Sean O'Brien - no brainer
Chris Henry - For me he has to tour, he is developing into a very good O/S, he's also versatile and can play anywhere in the back row although lacks real dynamism for 8 at test level IMO which I think is where his previous couple of caps have come
David Wallace - If he's fit then I'd still bring him
Jamie Heaslip - no brainer

SCRUM HALFS
Eoin Reddan - no brainer
Conor Murray - no brainer
Paul Marshall - He could bring so much impact from the bench for Ireland, I'm fairly sure he'll be behind TOL and Boss but his form merits selection above both

OUT HALFS
Jonathan Sexton - no brainer
Ronan O'Gara - we could bring Madigan instead but I'd rather test Madigan out against Fiji or Argentina in November first instead. ROG's experience could be handy if we want to actually win a game

CENTRES
Gordon D'Arcy - torn on this, but again I can't see him being left out altogether, he's also shown in the last couple of weeks that in the right environment he can still put in big performances, but in saying that he was very poor in the 6Ns. I could be persuaded one way or the other here. I wouldn't want him to start though.
Brian O'Driscoll - no brainer
Darren Cave - IMO the most natural 13 outside of BOD, he'd probably only be along for the ride, but I'd be intrigued by a BOD/Cave midfield pairing with BOD at 12.

CENTRES/BACK THREE
Fergus McFadden - If I'm including D'Arcy then McFadden fits the no brainer category
Keith Earls - no brainer

BACK THREE
Andrew Trimble - no brainer
Luke Fitzgerald - in form and with Bowe out has a great chance of making the starting XV
Rob Kearney - no brainer
Felix Jones - We need a second out and out full back and while Felix is still clearly finding his way back to form after injury he's next in line after Kearney. If Bowe is available then I'd replace Jones with Tommy and usee Keet and Fitz as FB cover.

Edit -

Starting XV then

15 Kearney
14 Trimble
13 Earls
12 O'Driscoll
11 Fitzgerald
10 Sexton
9 Reddan
1 Healy
2 Best
3 Ross
4 Ryan
5 O'Connell
6 Ferris
7 O'Brien
8 Heaslip

Bench
16 Cronin, 17 Court, 18 Tuohy, 19 Wallace, 20 Marshall, 21 O'Gara, 22 McFadden

Hippo

New Coach - no brainer

bamboozle

this is the squad i'd like to see travel, a squad of 34

Props
Ross, Healy, Loughney, Wilkinson, Jack McGrath/Kilcoyne

Hookers
Best, Cronin, Sherry

2nd Rows
POC, Ryan, Touhy, McCarthy

Back row
SOB, Heaslip, McLaughlin, Henry, POM, Ruddock

SH
Reddan, Marshall, Murray
OH
Sexton, ROG, Madigan
centres
BOD, McFadden, EOM, Cave

back three
Kearney, Earls, Fitz, Trimble, Zebo, Gilroy

Rested
Ferris

Time in an irish jersey finished
DOC, D'arcy, D. Wallace

Unlucky to lose out
Felix Jones, Muldoon, Griffen,

enough experience there but also i'd want to see the squad injected with youth who will liven up things, Sherry, Zebo, Gilroy, Marshall, Ruddock, EOM, Cave would all benefit from the exposure to this tour

Cant understand why Marcus Horan is even mentioned, i think Archer will be surpassed by Kilcoyne, Cotter, Condon and Ryan in the munster set up next season. I'd bring Kilcoyne or Jack McGrath along for them to get some intense exposure to international level scrum training.

TheKeenMachine

Firstly, I wouldn't be an expert on front rows, so picking Marcus Horan was more a case of not picking Court. I've only seen Wilkinson once or twice and would have no problems bringing him but I didn't really know enough about him to select him originally. The same goes for Loughney.
Secondly, my opinion of Tom Court is not based on that day in Twickenham, it would be unfair to only blame him for the fiasco at scrum time. Maybe it's my imagination but any time he comes on, Ireland seem to struggle to retain ball.

totallegend

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

Firstly, I wouldn't be an expert on front rows, so picking Marcus Horan was more a case of not picking Court. I've only seen Wilkinson once or twice and would have no problems bringing him but I didn't really know enough about him to select him originally. The same goes for Loughney.
Secondly, my opinion of Tom Court is not based on that day in Twickenham, it would be unfair to only blame him for the fiasco at scrum time. Maybe it's my imagination but any time he comes on, Ireland seem to struggle to retain ball.

No, it's probably not your imagination but we have to distinguish between Court's ability at loose-head and his inability at tight-head. At LH, he is top-notch and there is, IMO, no question over his scrummaging, he's also very mobile for a prop. He's not in the same league as Healy in terms of ball-carrying but he's not far behind in most other aspects. It's when he shifts to tight-head that things go pear-shaped. I don't know why the Six Nations doesn't allow 8 replacements; I'm not sure what the story will be for these games in the summer, will we be allowed two props on the bench?

Horan is finished, he is barely up to Rabo league standard anymore.

I'd give Loughney a call-up as TH cover, I think he's been decent and he has more game-time this year than most of the alternatives.

fitz

I'd love to see us beat the All Blacks. Particularly for the likes of BOD, who won't have many more opportunities to tick that particular career achievement off the list.

But.

Does anyone else think that a win would be bad for the national side in the medium term, as it would inevitably prolong Kidney's tenure?

CIARAN_BOYLE

totallegend wrote: »

No, it's probably not your imagination but we have to distinguish between Court's ability at loose-head and his inability at tight-head. At LH, he is top-notch and there is, IMO, no question over his scrummaging, he's also very mobile for a prop. He's not in the same league as Healy in terms of ball-carrying but he's not far behind in most other aspects. It's when he shifts to tight-head that things go pear-shaped. I don't know why the Six Nations doesn't allow 8 replacements; I'm not sure what the story will be for these games in the summer, will we be allowed two props on the bench?

Horan is finished, he is barely up to Rabo league standard anymore.

I'd give Loughney a call-up as TH cover, I think he's been decent and he has more game-time this year than most of the alternatives.

No

WeeBushy

It's daft that you don't have 8 subs for all competitions. All it does is exacerbate the problems across the board with scrums. Why force Court to come on at TH when you could just add an extra prop to the bench? Th and and LH are two completely different and specialist positions. Why can't the subs bench reflect this?

thebaz

Podge_irl wrote: »

Tom Court is easily as good as Horan at loosehead and obviously leagues ahead of him at tighthead. The rap Court gets is ridiculous -

one word - twickenham - we have to have someone better as reserve prop - ok, agree he should tour as deputy to Healy, but thats it -

Hagz

WeeBushy wrote: »

It's daft that you don't have 8 subs for all competitions. All it does is exacerbate the problems across the board with scrums. Why force Court to come on at TH when you could just add an extra prop to the bench? Th and and LH are two completely different and specialist positions. Why can't the subs bench reflect this?

Something to do with smaller nations not being able to field 23 players

Neil3030

fitz wrote: »

Does anyone else think that a win would be bad for the national side in the medium term, as it would inevitably prolong Kidney's tenure?

That he even has fans questioning the merits of an away victory over NZ is truly depressing...

totallegend

thebaz wrote: »

one word - twickenham - we have to have someone better as reserve prop - ok, agree he should tour as deputy to Healy, but thats it -

One word - who?

bilston

thebaz wrote: »

one word - twickenham - we have to have someone better as reserve prop - ok, agree he should tour as deputy to Healy, but thats it -

Well we'd better drop Mike Ross as well then since the scrum was going backwards while he was still on the field.

Hagz

bilston wrote: »

Well we'd better drop Mike Ross as well then since the scrum was going backwards while he was still on the field.

Yeh but he picked up an injury remember?

thebaz

bilston wrote: »

Well we'd better drop Mike Ross as well then since the scrum was going backwards while he was still on the field.

whats your reasoning , Court is better than Ross as a test prop

fitz

Neil3030 wrote: »

That he even has fans questioning the merits of an away victory over NZ is truly depressing...

I know, it feels dirty.

TheKeenMachine

What I'll really be interested to see is whether or not Kidney will give the likes of Madigan, Zebo/Gilroy/Kearney, Ruddock a chance. I really hope McLaughlin and Henry will go and play, they've been two of the outstanding players this season and work non stop

jacothelad

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

Ok, so off the back of a somewhat disappointing Six Nations campaign, Kidney's men will be heading to New Zealand to attempt to record a first victory against the All Blacks this summer.
Tour Itinerary
JUNE 2012
Sat 9th Jun 12
F New Zealand v Ireland Eden Park
Sat 16th Jun 12
F New Zealand v Ireland Rugby League Park
Sat 23rd Jun 12
F New Zealand v Ireland Waikato Stadium

Does anyone think Ireland will break their duck against the ABs or will it be three losses in a row?
In terms of squad selection, I hope that Kidney will experiment a little bit with some young players such as Ian Madigan or Simon Zebo and phase out some of the older campaigners.
If I were to pick a 30 man squad to travel, it would look something like this:

It all began quite well and then you put in:


Marcus Horan; Stephen Archer

You'd be better off with Ethel the Tea lady. As you say later, you have no idea about the front row. You actually didn't need to admit it.

On the subject of having a tight head and a loose head on the bench, there is nothing to stop Kidney having 2 props - except I have the sinking sensation that I got when I saw Archer's name in the Wolfhounds side. Can you imagine Archer against a real international loosehead? If a coach can't see that a player is totally inept - how and why is he a coach?