DFB Paramedic Course

Louth EMT

I've being hearing that DFB are considering running paramedic courses like they used to for the public at a cost of €10000 anyone able to confirm this.

maglite

Doubt it,

Where would you do the street time?

ivabiggon

maglite wrote: »

Doubt it,

Where would you do the street time?

on the back of dfb ambos

Bang Bang

Louth EMT wrote: »

I've being hearing that DFB are considering running paramedic courses like they used to for the public at a cost of €10000 anyone able to confirm this.

The DFB never ran Paramedic courses for the public, they ran EMT courses for the public. I'm not being pedantic but there is quite a difference between the two levels.

Mycroft H

Yep there is a vast difference between the two.

Any word though on the private one that ESTI mooted? I heard there was plans but nothing more

touge_drift

BX 19 wrote: »

Yep there is a vast difference between the two.

Any word though on the private one that ESTI mooted? I heard there was plans but nothing more

astronomical cost.. and placements was a big issue. i even heard self funded forigen placements in europe and america were being looked at

Louth EMT

Please Bang Bang give me some credit i know the difference between an EMT course and a paramedic course.

I'v heard one of the things holding up the course is that DFB want any revenue generated to be ringfenced for the DFB and not wasted by the local authority on there budget shortfalls.

Bang Bang

Louth EMT wrote: »

Please Bang Bang give me some credit i know the difference between an EMT course and a paramedic course.

Louth EMT wrote: »

I've being hearing that DFB are considering running paramedic courses like they used to for the public at a cost of €10000 anyone able to confirm this.

I'm sure you do know the difference Louth EMT, but your original post clearly implied that the DFB ran public Paramedic course's in the past, which of course they didn't and I was simply pointing that out.
My post never implied that you did not know the difference between the two levels.

TylerIE

In the early 00's when I did an (at the time) EMFR course with DFB it was widely believed, including by their own training staff, that they would be running a Private EMT course (which had similar classroom time and placements to the last (c2007) Paramedic standard), and nothing has happened since.

Bang Bang

TylerIE wrote: »

In the early 00's when I did an (at the time) EMFR course with DFB it was widely believed, including by their own training staff, that they would be running a Private EMT course (which had similar classroom time and placements to the last (c2007) Paramedic standard), and nothing has happened since.

The DFB did run private EMT course's for a number of years from the late 90's into the early '00's. It was quite successful too and was certified by the North Eastern University, Boston.

TylerIE

Bang Bang wrote: »

The DFB did run private EMT course's for a number of years from the late 90's into the early '00's. It was quite successful too and was certified by the North Eastern University, Boston.

Yes I know a lot of the participants - some who did it privately still wear the patches. When PHECC arrived only some got recognised at Paramedic Level, many got EMT licenses (presumably due to lack of patient contact).

5500

I wonder if a private paramedic course will ever get off the ground at this stage the rumor mill has been turning for years with it. I wonder how many people would actually fork out the 10k that's been mentioned to do the course in the current climate.

Bearing in mind there's no guarantee of a job at the end of it all and the extra costs that there may be for placements ect I wonder how viable the course would really be.

Thepredator

I enquired about the prospective paramedic course that the private crowd are trying to get going and the figure is over 20k. Mad money if you ask me but im sure there's plenty of people out there that would pay it.

Louth EMT

I would see €10000 as an investment in my future. €20000 or over i would see as robbery and debt that i cant afford.

touge_drift

Louth EMT wrote: »

I would see €10000 as an investment in my future. €20000 or over i would see as robbery and debt that i cant afford.

i would agree with you to a point, if ireland was like america and getting a job in ems was like most other jobs(alot of ems in america is provided by privates) it would be a great investment. over here your options are not as great, but i wouldnt go as far to say limited. you could be sitting with a nqemt cert for years before you could get a job oppertunity presenting itself. that 10k could do alot more for me in other areas or fund a degree while you wait for the hse/dfb to recruit and you train for free.

vidar

I cant see PHECC or any org doing private paramedic. There are so many EMTs now and there is a massive difference in the levels of the training. Yes i know all have passed the same exam, but some of the TI training is (IMHO) sub par. I obviously won't name any here as this is my opinion. Then you also have the problem of CPC, the EMT level seems it will be fairly ok to maintain, but para requires a lot of pt contacts

The EFR is an even greater problem. I know of one group whos total training on musclesketal injuries was this is a splint, but don't worry you wont be tested on it so if you have to ever us it just put it on them.

Einstein

vidar wrote: »

I cant see PHECC or any org doing private paramedic...

PHECC will only approve or refuse an institution from running a course. The biggest problem in Ireland in getting private paramedic training done is the lack of placements that are on offer, as a result, PHECC wont sign off on any institution to run the course. HSE and DFB are reluctant to allow placements, and placements in other countries aren't acceptable because they operate off different CPG's and protocols etc.

It will have to change at some stage though. I did hear that UCD were looking at adding paramedic to the CAO option though. But again, like everything...its all hearsay.

Best bet is to go abroad, receive what will most likely be training to a higher standard, and apply to PHECC on a case by case basis to join the Paramedic register here.

5500

Just saw on Facebook a galway based training centre writing...

International Paramedic Programme

We are currently in the advanced stages of setting up an 'International Paramedic Programme'. The programme will involve a blended learning didactic phase which will be completed in Ireland and international clinical placements and internship. The programme will be run through ourselves and a partner University. We are currently seeking expressions of interest from potential students. If you would be interested in attending a briefing session and finding out more about what the programme will entail please email your details

The course cost is projected to be in the region of €17500.

I know an investment in the future has been mentioned before but personally I wouldn't be going near it at that price. So many if's and but's to consider too, will phecc recognize the particular qualification, what are your future chances of employment going to be ect

miju

see my reply here

Elessar

It would be a nice money maker for Dublin city council, they have the facilities and the trainers. Unless they have bigger plans, I could see it working. 30 to a class, say €10k a pop, rostered part time ambulance placements, a class or two a year. €300-600k into the coffers.

Louth EMT

Elessar wrote: »

It would be a nice money maker for Dublin city council, they have the facilities and the trainers. Unless they have bigger plans, I could see it working. 30 to a class, say €10k a pop, rostered part time ambulance placements, a class or two a year. €300-600k into the coffers.

I'm hearing that DFB want this €300 - €600K revenue ringfenced for the service. Not to be used to pay salaries of planning staff who are not busy this weather.

coolmoose

There's a lot of rumours going around about private paramedic courses - I'm sure if they can get the money ring-fenced for the service that DFB would be interested in this.

TylerIE

coolmoose wrote: »

There's a lot of rumours going around about private paramedic courses - I'm sure if they can get the money ring-fenced for the service that DFB would be interested in this.

Many moons ago when I was first onto DFB about doing it privately (This was Pre - Paramedic - when everybody was EMT) the OBI Trainers cited issues around Placements of Non DFB staff. I know it was done in the 90's but seemingly the Unions werent thrilled at the prospects then, and it was one of the major stumbling blocks.

Another was that a lot of the instructors are pulled of stations to do training, meaning that at least some of them have to be covered using OT. The income from courses would rapidly be used if it was paying for OT for someone to cover, and for salary + lost allowances etc for the instructors.

Granted at least it would provide some income to provide and pay for OT but would it be enough!

Re CPCs for Paramedics in the voluntarys - there are a few (very few) voluntary only paramedics in the country. I am sure the system will have to be one that can accomodate everybody fairly, which means future graduates will hopefully be able to fall into the same system. The current proposal for EMT CPC is very fair in terms of its manageable for any practicing EMT.

antichrist

A private paramedic course won't be run in the upcoming years, not even with DFB. The problem arises not with you 4 & 12 week supervised placement but with your 1 year unsupervised internship.
I can't imaging DFB or HSE staff allowing a member of the public into their station to work shifts in their ambulances for free (an idea put forward to the HSE from a private training company), thereby cutting down on the number of available shifts for heir own staff.
PHECC don't seem to have an issue with the course being run....but can't guarentee you getting recognized once training is completed!

In all fairness who would be willing to pay 10k+ to spend a year working overseas for little to nothing?

5500

I see from esti page on facebook they have their open evening scheduled and some course info for the private paramedic course on their site. I guess the burning questions are going to be price & phecc accreditation at the end of it all.

I'd assume they have been in contact with phecc and would be confident of recognition/accreditation otherwise there wouldnt be much if any interest which brings it all down to cost. I guess we'll know sooner rather than later!

touge_drift

5500 wrote: »

I see from esti page on facebook they have their open evening scheduled and some course info for the private paramedic course on their site. I guess the burning questions are going to be price & phecc accreditation at the end of it all.

I'd assume they have been in contact with phecc and would be confident of recognition/accreditation otherwise there wouldnt be much if any interest which brings it all down to cost. I guess we'll know sooner rather than later!

dont forget the price to get yourself over to the states and live there during your on the road placement. 2100 hours is a long time(to feed yourself etc without any income)

miju

5500 wrote: »

I see from esti page on facebook they have their open evening scheduled and some course info for the private paramedic course on their site. I guess the burning questions are going to be price & phecc accreditation at the end of it all.

I'd assume they have been in contact with phecc and would be confident of recognition/accreditation otherwise there wouldnt be much if any interest which brings it all down to cost. I guess we'll know sooner rather than later!

Well according to the PHECC site they aren't a recognised Paramedic Institution (altough that might not yet be updated).

I'm guessing it will be a recognition of equivalency exam at the end of it.

Personally, I don't see the point in qualifying privately, paying all that money and not having any gaurentee of a job at the end of it

mr.dunkey

I can't see any private company doing paramedic training. There is a lot of training institutes trying to get this course approved for one thing only, to take your cash. There is no employment gap for paramedics that needs filling.If Dfb or Nas want some, they we recruit and train you.A lot of Emts out there eager for carrer in a emergency ambulance service but be wcareful before investing a lot of cash.

bill buchanan

mr.dunkey wrote: »

I can't see any private company doing paramedic training. There is a lot of training institutes trying to get this course approved for one thing only, to take your cash. There is no employment gap for paramedics that needs filling.If Dfb or Nas want some, they we recruit and train you.A lot of Emts out there eager for carrer in a emergency ambulance service but be wcareful before investing a lot of cash.

there is already a private company in kerry doing a remote paramedic course. I think it's months and months of self directed reading, followed by a few weeks in-house training and then some overseas placements.

I think if you're willing to travel, doing para training overseas is a great opportunity. The standard of some overseas paras I've worked with has been amazing.

mr.dunkey

bill buchanan wrote: »

there is already a private company in kerry doing a remote paramedic course. I think it's months and months of self directed reading, followed by a few weeks in-house training and then some overseas placements.

I think if you're willing to travel, doing para training overseas is a great opportunity. The standard of some overseas paras I've worked with has been amazing.

so it's distance learning with placements in another country.would you regard it as an irish paramedic course.. Does the qualification give you a phecc grade.

unless your placements are in south Africa can't see much different than the calls you get here.I've been to the states, UK similar calls to here.Ireland produced some excellent medics you get your good and bad everywhere.

If they have phecc paramedic approval well done, they've achieved where a lot have failed.
any idea of price

bill buchanan

mr.dunkey wrote: »

so it's distance learning with placements in another country.would you regard it as an irish paramedic course.. Does the qualification give you a phecc grade.

unless your placements are in south Africa can't see much different than the calls you get here.I've been to the states, UK similar calls to here.Ireland produced some excellent medics you get your good and bad everywhere.

If they have phecc paramedic approval well done, they've achieved where a lot have failed.
any idea of price

It's defo not an irish paramedic course. It's specifically based on remote environments. I know very little about it, but it's not PHECC approved. The company are, however, based in Ireland and the in-house practical training is run in ireland. I think it was about 8 grand, plus overseas placement costs.

In terms of the standard of paramedic, I'm not talking about the experience you get in calls. I'm talking about quality of placement. In Ireland a paramedic can't put in an IV or an IO. As someone who's worked in several countries and has had lots of experience with paras there (inclusing south africa) who often have very advanced skills, that shocks me. Part of me thinks they should sort that side of things before they expand the numbers. I deal with a few paramedics through work and they all seem very competent, but you need a bigger skillset to be a really excellent paramedic. I was in the UK with a grop of paramedics and BASICS docs recently and they couldn't believe how restrictive PHECC are over here.

mr.dunkey

bill buchanan wrote: »

It's defo not an irish paramedic course. It's specifically based on remote environments. I know very little about it, but it's not PHECC approved. The company are, however, based in Ireland and the in-house practical training is run in ireland. I think it was about 8 grand, plus overseas placement costs.

In terms of the standard of paramedic, I'm not talking about the experience you get in calls. I'm talking about quality of placement. In Ireland a paramedic can't put in an IV or an IO. As someone who's worked in several countries and has had lots of experience with paras there (inclusing south africa) who often have very advanced skills, that shocks me. Part of me thinks they should sort that side of things before they expand the numbers. I deal with a few paramedics through work and they all seem very competent, but you need a bigger skillset to be a really excellent paramedic. I was in the UK with a grop of paramedics and BASICS docs recently and they couldn't believe how restrictive PHECC are over here.

You can do a wilderness EMT course here It is taught by Paramedics and advanced paramedics.It is not a phecc accredited course.
They do teach doctors, and medics of all levels.

Your knowledge of Irish paramedic skills isn't exact.You can do the advanced paramedic course which would be the same or better than some paramedic skills in other countries. On our Irish ambulances advanced paramedics do another 2 years in Ucd.The Dfb and army also have these skills.They gives ivs, morphine,intubate, needle decompression and other ALS skills.

The Irish paramedic is similar the level of other countries EMTs. They are still training advanced paramedics about 50-60 year.

bill buchanan

mr.dunkey wrote: »

Your knowledge of Irish paramedic skills isn't exact.You can do the advanced paramedic course which would be the same or better than some paramedic skills in other countries. On our Irish ambulances advanced paramedics do another 2 years in Ucd.The Dfb and army also have these skills.They gives ivs, morphine,intubate, needle decompression and other ALS skills.

.

What exactly is wrong with my knowledge of paramedic skills? I said they can't put in IVs or IOs. WHich part of that is incorrect?

mr.dunkey

bill buchanan wrote: »

What exactly is wrong with my knowledge of paramedic skills? I said they can't put in IVs or IOs. WHich part of that is incorrect?

Your comparing Irish paramedics with over seas paramedics.We do have paramedics that can do IO/IV ALS etc.
Phecc have given them the title of advanced paramedic.
Irish Paramedic=Oversea EMT
Irish advanced Paramedic= Overseas paramedic
Phecc the people that have given these titles to Pre hospital providers,may have given them slightly different names but they have the same skill set.

If you knew about irish paramedics in the ambulance service you would know that ambulances can do ALS,Iv pain relief, Intubate etc

If your in the Medical game you should know that a pre hospital skill matrix is only a new thing in ireland but we do have advanced skills since 2005. Maybe you just havent came across these guys yet.
Maybe we will have something similar to basics one day in ireland too.

bill buchanan

mr.dunkey wrote: »

Your comparing Irish paramedics with over seas paramedics.We do have paramedics that can do IO/IV ALS etc.
Phecc have given them the title of advanced paramedic.
Irish Paramedic=Oversea EMT
Irish advanced Paramedic= Overseas paramedic
Phecc the people that have given these titles to Pre hospital providers,may have given them slightly different names but they have the same skill set.

If you knew about irish paramedics in the ambulance service you would know that ambulances can do ALS,Iv pain relief, Intubate etc

If your in the Medical game you should know that a pre hospital skill matrix is only a new thing in ireland but we do have advanced skills since 2005. Maybe you just havent came across these guys yet.
Maybe we will have something similar to basics one day in ireland too.

I'm fully aware of what APs can and can't do. But that in no way means my knowledge of the paramedic skillset is flawed. I was talking about paramedics and not advanced paramedics. Just like when I talk about the generic skillset of nurses I'm not talking about advanced nurse practitioners.

Whatever way you want to spin it, it's insane that Irish paramedics can't put in IV and IO lines. They're the people who commonly respond to your emergency. You maybe lucky enough that an AP is on the crew or that one is within commuting time. But in a developed country, the person who responds to most emergencies should be able to carry out IV access. I'd undertsand if it was a complex procedure. But I learned IV insertion in one afternoon and became decent enough at it after a few patients. Didn't take an awful long time before I could get IV access on difficult patients. As for IO access, I saw one and then did one with my boss supervising me. Easy.

We've had a setup for training in advanced skills for a long time now and it's time that these skills were rolled out to the paramedics. Though the worry would be that even if the course providers taught IV access, PHECC still wouldn't let the paras perform them, which is a real shame.