Home office build €800

sydthebeat

Hey everyone, long time lurker here. novice when it comes to PCs and building, the most i could do is change a psu, HD or dvd drive :P

firstly thanks to deconduo and serephucus for some pm communication a few weeks back to get me on teh right track... so here goes.

1. What is your budget? [€700 pref -800 max]

2. What will be the main purpose of the computer? home office, mainly use of Autocad and Revit... future proof needed for 3d generation through these programs and the likes of google sketchup.
I often have many cpu heavy programs open at the one time, acad, sketchup, revit etc +

No gaming whatsoever.

3. Do you need a copy of Windows? [Yes]

4. Can you use any parts from an old computer? [Hard drive/DVD Drive/Case/PSU/etc.]
dvd drive but may be willing to go new if budget allows
existing pc is a pavillion t3470 so my HDs are IDE. (180 + 140 GB HDs)
i want to mount these externally in cases and connect through USB, unless theres an easier way

5. Do you need a monitor? [No] AOC LM720a, 1280x1024

5a. If yes, what size do you need. [19'/20'/22'/24'/etc.]

5b. If no, what resolution is your current monitor and do you plan to upgrade in the near future? 1280x1024 [Yes] possibly upgrade to a HD screen if not too expensive in the future

6. Do you need any of these peripherals? [Keyboard/Mouse/Wireless Card/Card Reader/Speakers/etc.] Dont need wireless keyboard, mouse, speakers

i will need a reader for Sd cards, i want at least 8 usb ports, .
I need wireless broadband connectivity.
i have a belkin WLAN USB adapter though im not sure if its of any use.

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? [No]
Not completely against though i want longevity from this machine, if it will significantly increase performance at not a huge cost im willing.

8. How can you pay? [Bank Transfer/Laser]

9. When are you purchasing? [whenever spec is completed]

10. If you need help building it, where are you based? Laois.


This will be located prominently so im willing to go +25% for a decent looking case.
Id like at least 1TB hd, decent ram, and a risk free PSU (any trouble ive ever had has been from PSUs)



some of the requirements for the programs i run are as follows, you guys understand this stuff better than me


AutoCAD 2012 64-bit

• Microsoft Windows 7 Enterprise, Ultimate, Professional, or Home Premium (compare Windows 7 versions); Microsoft Windows Vista Enterprise, Business, Ultimate, or Home Premium (SP2 or later) (compare Windows Vista versions); or Microsoft Windows XP Professional (SP2 or later)
• AMD Athlon 64 with SSE2 technology, AMD Opteron® processor with SSE2 technology, Intel® Xeon® processor with Intel EM64T support and SSE2 technology, or Intel Pentium 4 with Intel EM64T support and SSE2 technology
• 2 GB RAM
• 2 GB free space for installation
• 1,024 x 768 display resolution with true color
• Microsoft® Internet Explorer® 7.0 or later
• Install from download or DVD

For those both 32 & 64-bit using 3D modeling workflows, you require a little more specifics on the graphics card and a wee bit more CPU speed.

• Intel Pentium 4 processor or AMD Athlon, 3 GHz or greater; or Intel or AMD dual-core processor, 2 GHz or greater
• 2 GB RAM or more
• 2 GB hard disk space available in addition to free space required for installation
• 1,280 x 1,024 true color video display adapter 128 MB or greater, Pixel Shader 3.0 or greater, Microsoft® Direct3D®-capable workstation-class graphics card

revit
-You want windows 7, 64 bit.

--Rendering an image requires processing power almost exclusively, so if you're after photrealistic images and walkthroughs, get 6 to 12 cores. For your average drafting/modeling, not very much processing power is needed, a typical 4-6 core works great.

--For smooth work, without catches and lag while you spin around a 3D model with transparency, ambient occlusion, and shadows on, you'll need a very good video card. Consider getting two B+ grade cards that are capable of linking in SLI. Much much cheaper than buying a shiny $1000 flagship-prototype-wonder-card that'll be merely mediocre in a year's time. But I understand if it's daunting, and companies like Dell won't offer to do this unless perhaps you speak with a rep.

--Ram is not as important as some people think. But I wouldn't have under 6. And then again, it's cheap. Watch your system resource manager, you'll see that revit doesn't hog the ram at all. on my machine with 12 gigs, 7-8 gigs sits idle at all times, even during what you'd assume would be demanding tasks.

--for faster loading/saving, consider getting a faster harddrive. 10,000 RPM instead of the average 7,200 drives.


The above is from a forum so its suggested....
personally i dont think id need to go above the Value: Balanced Price and Performance specification here
so hopefully a graphics card wont cost me a bomb!! id appreciate ANY advice you can give me here because im completely out of my comfort zone when it comes to GPUs.

Thanks in advance !!!!

Serephucus

How's this look?

Item|Price
Intel Core i5-2500K Box, LGA1155|€187.99
ASRock Z77 Extreme4, Sockel 1155, ATX|€123.92
8GB-Kit G.Skill PC3-10667U CL9|€33.65
FRACTAL DESIGN Gehäuse DEFINE R3 Titanium Grey|€93.83
Noctua NH-UB9 SE2, AM2/AM3/775/1366/1156|€44.97
Crucial M4 128GB SSD 6,4cm (2,5")|€133.34
MS Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit SB-Version Englisch|€83.64
Super Flower 400W Golden Green Pro 80plus|€58.29
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€778.62

Went for high quality, quiet components with this build. You also have an overclockable processor, and one of the best coolers around, so it'll be more-than-capable of very good overclocks with no impact on lifespan. I went for an efficient PSU, again for quietness. I also stuck a 128GB SSD in, for speed, as well as noise reasons.

sydthebeat

thanks serephucus

is there a HD missing from that spec??

also, is there any point including more ram?

and is there a card reader / more usb ports?

in order to keep within budget im not that pushy towards overly quite... though i dont want a hurricane in the room either its going to be located in a family room with constant background noise.......

Serephucus

There's a 128GB hard drive there. I'm not sure if that's enough for your or not.

As regards RAM, I'm not sure. I don't use AutoCAD, so I'm not familiar with RAM usage. It's only about €35 more for another 8GB, so you certainly could.

USB ports - the board has six, and the case has another two, but if you need more, there's always something like this, or this.

sydthebeat

8 would be perfect

i know the SSD is great for quick start ups etc, but im in need of more than 128GB. Ill be connecting my existing 2 HDs externally, but ill need a good HD internally, i was thinking of a 1TB but i could work away easily at 500GB... depends on the price i guess.

having a look at the card reader.... i think ill pass.

Serephucus

There's the Momentus XT to consider if you want speed and size. It uses an 8GB SSD to cache your most-accessed data on the fly. You get anywhere from 60-90% the performance of an SSD, but much, much more space.

Review here.

GarIT

There is no GPU in that build?

You have to have one for CAD work.

johnmcdnl

Item|Price
8GB-Kit G.Skill PC3-10667U CL9|€33.65
BitFenix Merc Beta|€31.61
PNY QUADRO 600 1024MB DDR3 BULK|€161.84
Intel Core i7-2600K Box, LGA1155|€264.90
ASRock Z68 Pro3 Gen3, Sockel 1155, ATX|€81.59
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 450W|€43.47
LG GH22NS50/70/90 bare schwarz|€17.73
Seagate Barracuda 7200 1000GB, SATA 6Gb/s|€85.38
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit (SB-Version)|€78.54
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€817.70

Banged this together there... it's a wee bit over budget but should do the job... think all is included in it

the graphics card is the bit I'm not sure about - the quadro 600 is an entry level card but is supposed to be some way optomised for autocad and the likes... the quadro 2000 which would be a very good card is nearly 400 quid so that's just going to break your budget straight away....
whether you should get the low end quadro or just go for a decent mid range gaming card - I'm not sure tbh... i'll let someone else tell you that

GarIT

johnmcdnl wrote: »

Item|Price
8GB-Kit G.Skill PC3-10667U CL9|€33.65
BitFenix Merc Beta|€31.61
PNY QUADRO 600 1024MB DDR3 BULK|€161.84
Intel Core i7-2600K Box, LGA1155|€264.90
ASRock Z68 Pro3 Gen3, Sockel 1155, ATX|€81.59
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 450W|€43.47
LG GH22NS50/70/90 bare schwarz|€17.73
Seagate Barracuda 7200 1000GB, SATA 6Gb/s|€85.38
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit (SB-Version)|€78.54
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€817.70

Banged this together there... it's a wee bit over budget but should do the job... think all is included in it

This is a lot better for what it will be used for, the graphics card is designed to work well with CAD applications and the CPU will handle programs that can use all its cores better than the i5. I would stick in a hybrid drive or ssd if possible but its well worth the money as it is.

Serephucus

If AutoCAD is GPU intensive, and can in fact take advantage of a Quadro (wasn't sure on this) then why bother with a 2600K? why not go with a 2300 or something and maybe get the money for a Quadro 2000?

sydthebeat

i did a bit of research and i think the quatro 600 would be plenty sufficient for the level that ill be working at... i mainly work in 2d but the future is in revit and 3d so ill be at entry level working towards mid level.

the quatro 2000 is €471 in dabs blows my budget out of the water.

the case is a bit meh, could i put another €40 ish for something a bit more elegant? is this a runner?

is the i7 a necessity? and is wireless connectivity included in those specs?

thanks for all the help !!!!

johnmcdnl

sydthebeat wrote: »

i did a bit of research and i think the quatro 600 would be plenty sufficient for the level that ill be working at... i mainly work in 2d but the future is in revit and 3d so ill be at entry level working towards mid level.

the quatro 2000 is €471 in dabs blows my budget out of the water.

the case is a bit meh, could i put another €40 ish for something a bit more elegant? is this a runner?

is the i7 a necessity? and is wireless connectivity included in those specs?

thanks for all the help !!!!

yeah whatever case you want as long as it's ATX - just popped it in as it's cheap - that case is pretty nice and think a few people around here have it or suggest it on other builds...

as for the i7 - AutoCAD actually won't make the most use of an i7 from what I can see... will use the hyperthreading for only a few processes - didn't know that actually - knock it back down to an i5 2500k and overclock it a bit if you want to get some extra kick.... will save a good €70 and will be a better cost/performance option..

EDIT - reading a bit more and not sure if AutoCAD can use the hyperthreading... I always assumed it would... it will make processing stuff faster with the i7 but if you can't fit it in the budget and you can wait a wee bit longer for rendering or whatever in AutoCAD then don't bother with it.....

there's no wifi card in that build but you can pick one up for €20 give or take..

sydthebeat

thanks john,

dropping back to the i5 will give me enough to upgrade the case and add in a wifi card (any suggestions here?)

if i over clock do i need an additional cooler like the one in serephucus spec??

Serephucus

Yes, you will*. If you can stretch, the case I specced you is a very nice one, and will keep your components nice and quiet. As for a WiFi adapter, anything will do really. This for example.

*Not necessarily one as good as that, but you'll need something better than stock. This would be the absolute minimum I'd recommend.

Osmosae

Stick with the quadro for autocad if you'll use iray or the likes. Technically there are much better cards out there for same price, but the quadro's drivers will help it operate better in professional programs (conversely, it's going to be absolute muck as a gaming card if u plan on using it for that). If you don't plan on using that much, you could probably get away with a non professional card

EDIT: Also i reckon getting a monitor with a higher resolution would provide you with quite a substantial boost in your workflow. 1280 x 1024 is quite small for what your doing.

sydthebeat

it wont be used for gaming at all

yeah the screen is ancient at this stage and i will be upgrading when possible... im just focusing on the machine at this stage.. i could possibly pick up one of these at a cut price cos i know of where one is not being used.

what kind of screen would you recommend?? something like this?

ive a belkin wlan usb adaptar that hopefully will suffice....

having another look at your case serephucus and its definitely elegant. Would i need to have those front doors open for any particular reason? will the fans performance be restricted if kept closed?

Osmosae

Heh, i could be the wrong man to ask about monitors . I upgraded to a 27" IPS 2560 x 1440 at the start of the year, and genuinely i dont think i'd ever go back to anything else, in fact i want to pick up another 2 lol. I do work in Maya along with a few other 3d programs, so similar work to yourself but on the graphical side of things rather than the technical

Yeh that samsung would be a good upgrade. If your budget is able to stretch for it though, check out the Catleap monitors, you can grab a 27" IPS for about 270 delivered to the door. Its not the make of monitor i have (wasn't available or else i just hadn't heard about it when i was buying mine), but it seems to be just as delectable

Nah i dont think u need to keep the doors open, that'd be for those times when your putting your comptuer under serious pressure, other than that keep em closed and the comp will be more silent

sydthebeat

so im looking at the following as my order:

Item|Price
8GB-Kit G.Skill PC3-10667U CL9|€33.65
FRACTAL DESIGN Gehäuse DEFINE R3 Titanium Grey|€93.83
PNY QUADRO 600 1024MB DDR3 BULK|€161.84
Intel Core i5-2500K Box, LGA1155|€187.99
Arctic Cooling Freezer 13 CO |€21.40
ASRock Z68 Pro3 Gen3, Sockel 1155, ATX|€81.59
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 450W|€43.47
LG GH22NS50/70/90 bare schwarz|€17.73
Seagate Barracuda 7200 1000GB, SATA 6Gb/s|€85.38
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit (SB-Version)|€78.54
Shipping|€18.99

Total|€824.41

so how does that look? hopefully the overclocking wont be too difficult...

still humming about whether to build it myself or let them

GarIT

sydthebeat wrote: »

so im looking at the following as my order:

Item|Price
8GB-Kit G.Skill PC3-10667U CL9|€33.65
FRACTAL DESIGN Gehäuse DEFINE R3 Titanium Grey|€93.83
PNY QUADRO 600 1024MB DDR3 BULK|€161.84
Intel Core i5-2500K Box, LGA1155|€187.99
Arctic Cooling Freezer 13 CO |€21.40
ASRock Z68 Pro3 Gen3, Sockel 1155, ATX|€81.59
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 450W|€43.47
LG GH22NS50/70/90 bare schwarz|€17.73
Seagate Barracuda 7200 1000GB, SATA 6Gb/s|€85.38
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit (SB-Version)|€78.54
Shipping|€18.99

Total|€824.41

so how does that look? hopefully the overclocking wont be too difficult...

still humming about whether to build it myself or let them

It's still without a Wireless network card. Here's one that has been recommended to me before. http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=28576&agid=271

I know AMD aren't as competitive as they used to be but with the way the programs are going to develop would an 8 core AMD FX future proof it a bit better? And one of the programs he is using does recommend 6 - 12 cores. And this one benchmarks better than the i5 on passmark. I wouldn't be half the expert these guys are but I think this would be only slightly worse at everyday tasks, a lot worse for gaming, but a big improvement on CAD work especially in the future. http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=51672&agid=1242

sydthebeat

thanks garIT for the input... id love to get more opinions on this..

so is the choice between the i5 4core at €188 versus the AMD FX 8120 8 core at €152 ??

the revit spec says that 'virtual cores' can be used.. whats that? is that like the i7 being quad core but dual threading creating what is basically 8 cores?

actually... been reading in places that the amd is actually quad core but uses hyperthreading like the i7..

the more i read them more the i5 seems to be a better all round processor....

im wondering would i actually ever be doing anything that would require all 8 cores?? anyone know what level of activity would require this? say in 3d design?


oh, and ill be using a usb wlan adapter... i assume that means dont need an internal wireless card?

GarIT

sydthebeat wrote: »

thanks garIT for the input... id love to get more opinions on this..

so is the choice between the i5 4core at €188 versus the AMD FX 8120 8 core at €152 ??

the revit spec says that 'virtual cores' can be used.. whats that? is that like the i7 being quad core but dual threading creating what is basically 8 cores?

actually... been reading in places that the amd is actually quad core but uses hyperthreading like the i7..

the more i read them more the i5 seems to be a better all round processor....

im wondering would i actually ever be doing anything that would require all 8 cores?? anyone know what level of activity would require this? say in 3d design?


oh, and ill be using a usb wlan adapter... i assume that means dont need an internal wireless card?

I think they would only list actual cores, its not really an activity level that you need to get to, its the program that uses multiple cores, most cant use more than 2-4 cores and some can still only use 1 core (i think). If that was the case they would just sell the i7 as having 8 cores.

If it does have 8 cores, per core the i5 is slightly faster but the FX has 4 more than the i5 so it wins out on things that can use all the cores, like design software. But it looses in basic programs that can only use say 2 cores.

I forgot you had the USB. You'll need to wait till the other guys are back to know for sure about the processors.

sydthebeat

thanks again garIT.

im reading some conflicting stuff....

firstly its not a problem with autocad, it uses the gpu for rendering

this says revit only uses up to 4 cores and then after that the faster the processor the better.

this seems to back this up

it seems it all comes down to the rendering... rather than the actually technical framework design.

if i get to the ability, i would probably use something like 3d max for rendering...

seems the i5 will be plenty

Osmosae

I would choose the i5 2500k personally

Autocad uses Mental Ray for rendering doesn't it ? If so. Mental Ray renders on the CPU not the GPU, although it does use the GPU for iRay. Mental Ray will take advantage of all of your cpu cores, however many you have. Though this wasn't the case with Maya 2009 and below, so may be a similar situation for Autcad. If it doesn't use Mental Ray disregard this paragraph

sydthebeat wrote: »

im wondering would i actually ever be doing anything that would require all 8 cores?? anyone know what level of activity would require this? say in 3d design?

Rendering

sydthebeat

order in... nerves starting.... can i built this mother myself?? :P
ill give it a go anyway.

johnmcdnl

sydthebeat wrote: »

order in... nerves starting.... can i built this mother myself?? :P
ill give it a go anyway.

It's really not that hard tbh... look at a few online tutorials when your waiting on the delivery and you'll figure it out..

it's just like putting expensive lego together really... it either fits or it's wrong... pretty much that straight forward...

DON'T TURN THE COMPUTER ON BEFORE THERE'S A FAN ON TOP OF YOUR CPU AND SECURED DOWN - it will melt otherwise... don't be tempted to give it a lash for the laugh basically before the fan is installed...

other than that you can't really do too much wrong unless you start to point magnets at the motherboard and generally trying to break stuff... don't build it on a carpetted floor if ya can at all either just in case static electricity gets at it but once again unless you start dragging the motherboard and cpu along the carpet you shouldn't have a problem....

it's not hard at all - few videos on youtube and read a few articles online and you'll be more than capable of putting it together in 2-3 hours

when you have it built and your sitting there looking at it working perfectly for the first time you'll be delighted you chose to build it over letting someone else do it for you... really is a great buzz looking at it and thinking "yeah I built this thing "

sydthebeat

thanks john, yeah ive already been checking out some on line vids... theres actually videos showing how to install some of the specific hardward ive ordered, which is a bonus

i was going to ask about static and such, but it doesnt sound like it will be a huge issue. ill be building in in a kitchen with a tile floor

so all ill need is a philips screw driver and a pliers?

GarIT

sydthebeat wrote: »

so all ill need is a philips screw driver and a pliers?

What would you need the pliers for? Screwdriver should be all you need.

sydthebeat

pliers for tightening the motherboard risers?

GarIT

sydthebeat wrote: »

pliers for tightening the motherboard risers?

I never thought of that, I've always used my hands and never had any problems.

sydthebeat

well ill have one available anyway should be fun

sydthebeat

building at the moment.. i wonder could any one help me out with a few q's?

i have lots of cords still not connected and i dont know if i have to connect them

from PSU
2 blue CP U1 ones together
red pc1 express power
red SL1 ready power with a red 2 housing socket attached

and from case
1 10pin blue socket with SS and a symbol on it.. think it might be a usb 3.0 connector.. but i cant find a receiveing area on my asrock z68 pro3 gen3 mobo.

i think i have everything else connected... i might need a bit of help on the PW and rest connection, not sure if they are correct

GarIT

Pics might help, most of the time you will end up with an extra lead or two from the power supply, just make sure that all the components you have installed have power going to them.

I'm not sure about the lead from the case, I think things like that are usually on the bottom right of the MB.

sydthebeat

ok tried turning on this morning, power led works, cpu fan works, case fan works..... screen wont work? i guess ive something not connected or incorrectly connected

heres a few pics.

pic 3 and 4 show some cables still free
pic 5 shows what think is a usb 3 connector?
pic 6 shows the bottom of my mobo with some free headers?
pic 7 shows the sata connectors and the ram
pic 9 shows the dvd rw and HD.. how do i fix teh dvd?? theres no screw points ?

sydthebeat

pic 10 shows the quatro 600 graphic card. does this take a separate power connector?

pic 13, any reason this is spare?

pic 14 + 18 are general pics

thanks in advance

Serephucus

Pic 003 is fine, ignore those cables.

Pic 004, that 4+4-pin CPU power should go into an 8-pin socket towards the top of the motherboard. I'm not sure, but I think that's it on the bottom right of pic 018.

Pic 005 is a USB 3.0 connetion for the ports on the front of your case. There should be a header (connection) for that on the bottom of your motherboard, if it has one (not sure).

All the rest are where they're supposed to be and can be ignored.

sydthebeat

yes!! thank you... its up and running...

i dont think the mobo has a header for the usb 3.0 but its ok as there are 2 other 3.0 ports in the rear. On the ram, does it matter which slots they are in? or is it just fill one skip one?

must go install windows now :P

im having trouble booting from the dvd... its giving me the choice at the coot screen, but when i select dvd it seems to be reading but then just goes back to "reboot and select proper boot device, insert boot media....."



edit: sorted
i had the dvd connected to the sata 3 port... worked when connected to sata 2

sydthebeat

Thanks for that, booted up.. but another problem...

im getting this in a dos cmd.exe box

x:\windows\system32>wpeinit
x:\windows\system32>

Serephucus

What do you mean exactly? You're getting a black screen with only a DOS box, or you are in Windows and getting this when you open a DOS box or what?

sydthebeat

ok, well i first put in teh windows "preinstall" disk ?? was that correct?

now im getting a dos box opened, its not a full screen.. with the above in it.
its entitled:
administer x:\windows\system32\cmd.exe

i havent touched anything since booting from the disk

Serephucus

Windows Preinstall disk?

sydthebeat

sorry... officially..

'windows 7 OEM preinstallation kit' disk

sydthebeat

should i boot straight from the windows 7 disk??

Serephucus

Umm... I'm going to go ahead and assume it's a bog-standard Win7 disk. I've never had that happen, so I'm not sure what's going on. If Windows has installed correctly, maybe try starting in safe mode if you can, and check what's set to run on startup.

sydthebeat

should have said, i received two disks with the windows 7 package.. a win 7 disk and this preinstall disk.

ill just try boot straight from the win 7 disk.

edit; this is getting confusing
can i not choose another language only german for installation?

Serephucus

Oooooh dear. You'll need to download an English ISO online, and burn it to a disk. I take it you had Win7 Home Premium x64? Link here. Download that, and burn it with this. Then install as normal.