Connacht Into The Heineken Cup Next Season?

Bonesjones4444

Apparently Brive's victory in the Amlin Cup match tonight has ensured Connachts qualification for the HEC next year.

The winning country in the HEC gets an extra team in the tournament the following season - We only have French, Scottish and Irish teams left in the tournament this season - Both Scottish teams are already qualified, the French will be getting their extra team by winning the Amlin this year (all 4 semi finalists are French) and hence an extra team will be awarded to Ireland.

Great news for Connacht if true, having HEC qualification sorted so early in the season will really allow them to sign better players, sell more season tickets, and attract more sponsors

CatFromHue

From Wikipedia:

22 places are awarded by country, with each country deciding how to allocate their alloted places[2]:
England: six teams (selected by performance in Aviva Premiership and Anglo-Welsh Cup)
France: six teams (selected by performance in Top 14 Championship)
Ireland: three teams (selected by performance in Pro 12)
Wales: three teams (selected by performance in Pro 12)
Scotland: two teams (selected by participation in Pro 12)
Italy: two teams (selected by participation in Pro 12)
Starting with the 2009–10 season, the remaining two places in the 24-team tournament for the following season are filled by the winners of the Heineken Cup and European Challenge Cup. If a trophy winner has already qualified for the Heineken Cup by virtue of its league position, that country will receive an extra Heineken Cup place (assuming that the country has an extra team that can take up a place; Scotland has only two top-level professional teams, as does Italy since the 2010–11 season). However, England and France are capped at seven Heineken Cup places each. If either country produces the winners of both European cups, the last place will be filled by the highest ERC-ranked club not of that nation to not have otherwise qualified

So 7 places are from France, 6 from the league and 1 from the Amlin.

So if Edinburgh or Clermont win the HEC does that not mean the highest ERC ranked club not from France or Scotland to not have qualified will then go into the HEC i.e. an English in all likelihood as Connacht are ranked 25th not incl this season and Bath, Wasps, London Irish, and Gloucester are all ranked alot higher.

Honestly the rules available online don't go into enough detail to say what will happen. I think Connacht will still be relying on Ulster or Leinster to win it to get them into the HEC. There isn't a huge amount of info on the ERC website to help either.

CIARAN_BOYLE

No if a Scottish or French team win the HEC the highest ranked team not already qualified qualifies

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/ranking.php

DeDoc

It will be a 7th English side unless Ulster or Leinster win, as there are 7 English sides guaranteed to finish above Connacht

mr_edge_to_you

Once again, no matter what happens between now and the end of the season Connacht do not merit inclusion in the Heineken Cup. They are not good enough. This year showed they were the whipping boys of the competition.

Didn't do them any favours in the long run. It merely contributed to the worst losing streak in Irish rugby.

Digifriendly

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

Once again, no matter what happens between now and the end of the season Connacht do not merit inclusion in the Heineken Cup. They are not good enough. This year showed they were the whipping boys of the competition.

Didn't do them any favours in the long run. It merely contributed to the worst losing streak in Irish rugby.

Connacht may yet finish above Treviso in Pro 12. Do Treviso merit a place in the HEC? Also Connacht ran Gloucester close on 2 occasions (should certainly have won the second game) and beat Harlequins. Is that not good enough?

CIARAN_BOYLE

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

Once again, no matter what happens between now and the end of the season Connacht do not merit inclusion in the Heineken Cup. They are not good enough. This year showed they were the whipping boys of the competition.

Didn't do them any favours in the long run. It merely contributed to the worst losing streak in Irish rugby.

I think the massive growth in attendance is comes at least partly from HEC qualification which is very good for Connacht rugby

GerM

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

Once again, no matter what happens between now and the end of the season Connacht do not merit inclusion in the Heineken Cup. They are not good enough. This year showed they were the whipping boys of the competition.

Didn't do them any favours in the long run. It merely contributed to the worst losing streak in Irish rugby.

They also contributed one of the single most influential result of the competition to date by beating Harlequins which affected the entire make up of the knock outs. Whipping boys do not beat one of the tournament favourites at the time. If they get into the cup again it will be a very significant step. It will create more money and make them a more viable destination for players when looking to make signings. All the best to them.

f1dan

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

Once again, no matter what happens between now and the end of the season Connacht do not merit inclusion in the Heineken Cup. They are not good enough. This year showed they were the whipping boys of the competition.

Didn't do them any favours in the long run. It merely contributed to the worst losing streak in Irish rugby.

Eh what?

Were ten minutes from beating Harlequins in London and should have at least come away with a bonus point. Outclassed by Toulouse home and away but still gave a good account of themselves. Let victories at home and away against Gloucester slip away and beat Harelquins at home (thanks to some helpful officiating from Mr. Owens!).

Absolutely not whipping boys of the competition.

Shelflife

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

Once again, no matter what happens between now and the end of the season Connacht do not merit inclusion in the Heineken Cup. They are not good enough. This year showed they were the whipping boys of the competition.

Didn't do them any favours in the long run. It merely contributed to the worst losing streak in Irish rugby.

Whipping Boys??

edged out by quins away, edged out by gloucester at home, robbed by gloucester away, deny toulouse a bp at home, not bad for a team with limited resources in their first season in the HC.

Had they got a good slice of luck they could --stress could-- have won 4 games and finished 2nd in the group. they were competitive in all their games except Toulouse and theres no shame in that.

They are just as entitled to be in the HC as Treviso, Gwent and more deserving than Aironi.

Didnt do us any favours ?? Clearly you havent a clue whats gone on in the west, season ticket sales rocket, huge support ALL season as a result, people going consistantly to games that never went to games before.

A new clan stand , and most importantly of all a shoe up the hole to all in the Connacht branch to get off their arses, stop moaning and to help themselves.

Off the pitch huge efforts have been made with some great results, on the pitch again huge effort with them just falling short on occasions.

Losing streak, yes its never nice but we are building and another year in the HC would be a great help to all.

Madworld

And we got a bite.

cgpg5

I'm from Connacht and I don't agree with the way they qualified this season and may qualify next season. Teams should only qualify via their own achievements.

But they had a very positive season in the HC this year and I'd expect similar next year were they to get through

irishbucsfan

It'd be Wasps it seems. They won't qualify by league position so they'd be the 7th English team by virtue of their European ranking (losing their 2 points from 07/08 replacing them with 2 points this season for reaching the Amlin QF). That's if Clermont or Edinburgh win the H Cup.

Wasps will have 12 points next season.
Connacht will have 6 points next season.

Leinster or Ulster winning the H Cup are Connacht's only chance I think.

Teams should only qualify by their own achievements but there is no proper system for teams to qualify on merit in the Rabo and until that happens I think this avenue gives hope to teams like Connacht and its far from only us that benefit. When this was brought in the place for finishing ahead of Dragons (or a Welsh side) was taken away which made it much more difficult to get there on our own steam.

Connacht could finish mid-table next year and still not qualify while another team finishes bottom and qualifies. We saw that with Dragons being the only side in the league missing out last year despite finishing 7th.

As for us not getting a boost from being in the Heineken Cup. :rolleyes: For me its been huge and imo its the only thing that stopped Connacht Rugby potentially falling apart as the fans got on the bandwagon of cheap season tickets for HC. With big numbers coming through the gate, Connacht could lobby the government for improvements to facilities which will help keep the fans coming through the gates and the extra revenue generated has helped improve the whole setup in Connacht Rugby and allowed us to bring in some genuine quality for next season.

If it wasn't for the HC this season would have been seriously depressing, we might have broke the losing streak against an Italian club side in the Challenge Cup but that would have only been window dressing. Also given how poor our squad is we competed well in the competition. Toulouse at home was the only major dissapointment, beating Harlequins also made life easier for Ulster.

CiaranMT

Madworld wrote: »

And we got a bite.

He got a few.

CiaranMT

CiaranMT wrote: »

He got a few.

Its difficult to know some times. I have seen with a percentage of supporters of the bigger sides that they have no idea of what is going on in Connacht and Ulster (up until recently). A lot of supporters couldn't name more than 2 or 3 Connacht players for example.

porterbelly

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

Once again, no matter what happens between now and the end of the season Connacht do not merit inclusion in the Heineken Cup. They are not good enough. This year showed they were the whipping boys of the competition.

Didn't do them any favours in the long run. It merely contributed to the worst losing streak in Irish rugby.

This post makes me very very angry. I will not even dignify it with a response.

Of course it would be better for us to qualify on our own merits, but that's pretty much impossible. To finish above Ulster, Munster and Leinster is not going to happen, they're 3 of the top 5 teams in the league, we need to finish in the top 4 in the Rabo to do that. Anyone who thinks we should be doing that or that we should be capable of doing that needs their head examined.

The gap between us and the 3 other provinces is massive at the moment. They're 3 of the top 6 sides in Europe give or take, we've been the whipping boys of the Celtic Leagues who are making progress slowly. Heineken Cup rugby is huge for the province, and we'll take it any way we can get it. I certainly think we merit it on our performances this year, for a squad of our size/experience/budget it was a great effort, and we were unlucky in 3 games. We can certainly improve again next season.

mr_edge_to_you

porterbelly wrote: »

to finish above Ulster, Munster and Leinster is not going to happen, they're 3 of the top 5 teams in the league, we need to finish in the top 4 in the Rabo to do that. Anyone who thinks we should be doing that or that we should be capable of doing that needs their head examined.

The gap between us and the 3 other provinces is massive at the moment. They're 3 of the top 6 sides in Europe

That is professional sport for you.

I'm sure West Ham Supporters would love to be seeing Barcelona playing them in the Champions League in Upton Park, or Padraig Harrington would love to be playing in the Ryder Cup but in their sports they have to achieve a certain standard to merit participation. I don't see why it should be any different in rugby.

If you back four or five years there was very little difference between Ulster and Connacht and they were competing for the 3rd H Cup place and Connacht consistently fell short. At the time it wasn't so much about league position but the Irish inter-pro results.

Ulster subsequently upped their game on the field and off it - Connacht have only gotten their act together commercially this year with the apppoinent of a commercial team.

Podge_irl

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

Ulster subsequently upped their game on the field and off it - Connacht have only gotten their act together commercially this year with the apppoinent of a commercial team.

Probably because they had no money for one before.

mr_edge_to_you

Podge_irl wrote: »

Probably because they had no money for one before.

This is another argument which frustrates me. The other provinces reap massive benefits from thier own commercial ventures. The Munster supporters club has a two year waiting list to join. Leinster have the highest league attendance in pro 12. Ulster have achieved success with buying in quality imports.

As an example of Munsters commercial awareness they play a number of league games in Cork every season, keeping cork in the loop. Dublin and Belfast are large areas so it's not as necessary to bring the team to the province. Athlone being a Connacht town gets one pre-season friendly a year against poor English opposition.

When Munster signed their kit deal with Adidas it was the largest rugby club sponsorship deal ever. That was nearly four or five years ago.

At this stage the other provinces are largely self sufficient with the centrally contracted players being a massive factor.

CiaranMT

mr_edge_to_you,

You're coming at it from the wrong position.

Connacht rugby never had the base that Munster, Leinster and Ulster had, historically.

You're missing this (or ignoring it).

This lack of a base is key to why Connacht are nowhere near the level of the other three.

Connacht's biggest crowd this season was about 9,000. Not that much in comparison to the big three, but, it's about a four-fold increase on what they were bringing in only a season or two ago.

This rise is due to HEC rugby this season which got people interested in and behind the team.

Podge_irl

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

Ulster have achieved success with buying in quality imports.

Which they got extra funding from the IRFU for.

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

Athlone being a Connacht town gets one pre-season friendly a year against poor English opposition.

Athlone has fewer then 10,000 people living in it. Cork is Ireland's second city. Not exactly an equitable comparison.

When Munster signed their kit deal with Adidas it was the largest rugby club sponsorship deal ever. That was nearly four or five years ago.

Somehow I think that may have had something to do with Munster being the top team in Europe at the time.

At this stage the other provinces are largely self sufficient with the centrally contracted players being a massive factor.

They're not even close to being self-sufficient.


This is a ridiculous argument. Of course Connacht are lagging behind - they've been under-funded for years. Yes, their poor results had an impact on this but it is something of a chicken and egg scenario. Munster and Leinster were almost entirely underwritten by the IRFU for years. Connacht havemade big strides this year already - including beating Harlequins at home. They've made some very astute signings for next year and will only get better.

I'd certainly much rather then them in the HEC then a Bourgoin team that don't give a crap about it.

mr_edge_to_you

We would often have as many people at the Ireland U20s as there would be at a Magners League match. Connacht failed to tap in to the east of the province which annoys me greatly. The Sportsground is the worst venue in European rugby and they committed themselves long term to it ignoring completely the Athlone side ofhe province.

The Magners league was Connachts bread and butter and they have consistently been propping up the table. I know they are not in the same echelons as Munster and Leinster but they have sufficient resources to be competive against the lower ranked Welsh and Scotiah teams.

CiaranMT

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

We would often have as many people at the Ireland U20s as there would be at a Magners League match. Connacht failed to tap in to the east of the province which annoys me greatly. The Sportsground is the worst venue in European rugby and they committed themselves long term to it ignoring completely the Athlone side ofhe province.

The Magners league was Connachts bread and butter and they have consistently been propping up the table. I know they are not in the same echelons as Munster and Leinster but they have sufficient resources to be competive against the lower ranked Welsh and Scotiah teams.

As in within 4 points of the Dragons, and ahead of Edinburgh?

doomed

How can you expect Connaught to progress if their best players keep leaving to warm benches for the other three provinces? They need top class games and they need money. It is very much in Ireland's interest to have a viable fourth provincial team.

nc6000

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It'd be Wasps it seems. They won't qualify by league position so they'd be the 7th English team by virtue of their European ranking (losing their 2 points from 07/08 replacing them with 2 points this season for reaching the Amlin QF). That's if Clermont or Edinburgh win the H Cup.

Wasps will have 12 points next season.
Connacht will have 6 points next season.

Leinster or Ulster winning the H Cup are Connacht's only chance I think.

I'd hazard a guess that Edinburgh have no chance of winning it. I know they've made it through to the semi but I can't see them beating Ulster and certainly don't see them beating Leinster or Clermont.

mr_edge_to_you

CiaranMT wrote: »

This lack of a base is key to why Connacht are Connacht's biggest crowd this season was about 9,000. Not that much in comparison to the big three, but, it's about a four-fold increase on what they were bringing in only a season or two ago.

This rise is due to HEC rugby this season which got people interested in and behind the team.

But my belief is that Connacht should focus thier resources on being more competitive in the league. At the moment the H Cup for Connacht only offers three extra home games a season. If they can perform more consistently in the league they will get a more consistent attendance during the season. This will be far more rewarding in the long run than sporadic Heineken cup participation.

At the moment we don't have a squad to be anyway competitive in league and h cup at the same time.

d-gal

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

We would often have as many people at the Ireland U20s as there would be at a Magners League match. Connacht failed to tap in to the east of the province which annoys me greatly. The Sportsground is the worst venue in European rugby and they committed themselves long term to it ignoring completely the Athlone side ofhe province.

The Magners league was Connachts bread and butter and they have consistently been propping up the table. I know they are not in the same echelons as Munster and Leinster but they have sufficient resources to be competive against the lower ranked Welsh and Scotiah teams.

Athlone?! Really?! The place is an absolute dump with no decent facilities around it.
Galway has proper facilities and the place is loved by any away fan that comes to the city. The atmosphere around the town is electric and the pubs/clubs/restaurants/hotels/hostels can cater for all fans.

You really are delusional and you must have a serious gripe against Connacht. Even comparing us against Ulster is a joke. They are a cash cow and we couldn't even afford Pienaar's shoelaces, let alone the full man plus Wannenburg/Afoa/Muller.

Connacht have come on leaps and bounds in the last few years and they proved their HC worth when beating Quins and should have beaten Gloucester both home and away

CiaranMT

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

But my belief is that Connacht should focus thier resources on being more competitive in the league. At the moment the H Cup for Connacht only offers three extra home games a season. If they can perform more consistently in the league they will get a more consistent attendance during the season. This will be far more rewarding in the long run than sporadic Heineken cup participation.

At the moment we don't have a squad to be anyway competitive in league and h cup at the same time.

It offers a higher profile to players looking for a move.

It shows the IRFU that despite everything they've done to limit the province, Connacht can still be competitive in Europe's top tier.

wp_rathead

Connacht rugby have buses coming from North of the province, taking in Sligo, Ballina and Tuam and regularly arrange trains to cater for the fans in Athlone for games

mr_edge_to_you

I don't understand why everyone thinks Connacht have some divine right to play in Europes premier competition.

It sends out the wrong signal to other unions and the English and French clubs feel quite aggrieved that our provinces just waltz into the competition unopposed. I think it undermines the stature of what is a compelling competition.

Podge_irl

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

I don't understand why everyone thinks Connacht have some divine right to play in Europes premier competition.

No one thinks they do. They think it is a good thing for Irish rugby that Connacht get to play in the HEC due to Leinster/Ulster winning the competition. It's Leinster who got the extra place this year technically, not Connacht.

Its no different from Treviso and Aironi getting in.

leeroybrown

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

Once again, no matter what happens between now and the end of the season Connacht do not merit inclusion in the Heineken Cup. They are not good enough. This year showed they were the whipping boys of the competition.

Didn't do them any favours in the long run. It merely contributed to the worst losing streak in Irish rugby.

Connacht's problems on the pitch during the current season were down three main things:

• Our outhalf left and we weren't in a financial position to replace him. The number of points we've dropped this season due to missed kicks and poor game management from outhalf is huge.
• Our tight head left and we weren't in a financial position to replace him. We were left with a loose head converted to tight head (doing a decent job) with no adequate replacement and short a player at loose head too as a result.
• Our squad is slightly too light in places and it shows over a long season.

Those would have been a problem HEC or no HEC. I'd agree that being in the HEC did stretch those resources mid-season and fatigue probably did cost the side a couple of league wins but we end up with the same problem in the latter stages of the Amlin every year too, just a couple of months later in the season.

I'd also agree that Connacht have no "divine right" to play in the HEC but the rules are what they are. Ireland currently have three of Europe's best rugby sides and the current Rabo Pro12 qualification rules (mess) mean Connacht's best chance of qualification is probably another team winning the HEC. Do you think Connacht fans like it? No, but we'll certainly take it. In an ideal world as a Connacht fan I want to see an Ulster v. Leinster HEC final so we're qualified before the normal league season ends and can adjust our squad plans accordingly.

Last year's fortuitous qualification for the HEC coincided nicely with a separate and long overdue major push from the IRFU and the Branch (who are not independent of the IRFU unlike the other provinces) to modernise and improve the off pitch structures in the province. A lot of the off the pitch improvements have made a huge difference and having the extra push from the HEC has accelerated the whole thing.

Next year we have a proven kicking out half, a good tight head prop, less unwanted player loss, a settled squad and a list of academy players who are starting to come through. I think it's a pretty decent time for Connacht to be in the HEC.

Deano7788

I really don't understand the problem with Connacht qualifying through this method. The rules state that winners of the Amlin/Heineken get an extra Heineken place if they've already qualified (unless they've already got an extra place). No matter which country the club comes from they are technically speaking not going to have earned it. For instance, if Saracens has gone on to win the Heineken, I think Wasps would have got the place. They're currently 11th in the league so wouldn't have earned it themselves but the rules mean they'd still be entitled to it, so why shouldn't Connacht be.

If a Welsh team was to win one of these tournaments and have already qualified, then every Welsh team would qualify also, so the situation is the same

Other sports were mentioned in comparison to this so I'll use soccer as another example. The winners of the F.A. Cup and the Carling Cup are entitled to a place in the Europa League. If they've already earned that through the league, that place is given to the runners up in the F.A Cup and the the highest placed team in the league that hasn't qualified already. If the runners up of the F.A. Cup have also qualified, their place goes to the next placed team. This rule is extremely similer to that in rugby, even though technically speaking these teams haven't earned it either.

Finally, Scottish and Italian teams don't have to earn their places either. They're automatically granted entry, no matter their league position. Next year, a new Italian team is going to enter the Heineken having never played a match

porterbelly

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

I don't understand why everyone thinks Connacht have some divine right to play in Europes premier competition.

It sends out the wrong signal to other unions and the English and French clubs feel quite aggrieved that our provinces just waltz into the competition unopposed. I think it undermines the stature of what is a compelling competition.

Look at all the young players blooded by Connacht this season that wouldn't have been blooded otherwise. Griffin, O Halloran, McSharry, Mick Kearney, Eoin McKeon, Denis Buckley, Stewart Maguire. Fantastic for Irish rugby to see these guys get tested at the highest level of club rugby. Then there's the senior lads who are trying to get in the Irish team, great exposure for them some fantastic performances. Look at the Quins game, forgotten Irish province beating the top dogs in England. You couldn't write it, wonderful night for Connacht and the Heineken Cup.

Our provinces are hardly waltzing into the competition. Are you arguing that the French or English should have more teams? Ridiculous, Irish teams have won 4 of the last 6 tournaments, some of the French teams don't give a toss after a couple of games when they can't get through, and the English teams have been poor for the last 4 seasons bar Saints and Tigers. Connacht played a full team in all games, trying to win each game, showing the utmost respect to the tournament. Can we say this about the French teams, the likes of Metro and Castres who send B and C teams away from home and concede games. The tournament imo is all the better for Connacht being there. Smallest budget, smallest squad etc, but full of heart and respect for the tournament. Well worth their place

JustinDee

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

I don't understand why everyone thinks Connacht have some divine right to play in Europes premier competition

Nobody is saying they do. Like all unions in the three professional leagues, winners are exempt from qualification criteria and another team steps in to the particular window vacated by such winners.

It is important for rugby union's professional presence that each participating union has the chance to enter teams hence the current system of allocation for places.

No biggie. Its up to the teams who get the chance, to make the most of it.

JustinDee

leeroybrown wrote: »

Last year's fortuitous qualification for the HEC coincided nicely with a separate and long overdue major push from the IRFU and the Branch (who are not independent of the IRFU unlike the other provinces) to modernise and improve the off pitch structures in the province

No province is independent of the IRFU. They are just that: branches of it.

Podge_irl

JustinDee wrote: »

No province is independent of the IRFU. They are just that: branches of it.

I recall reading something a few years back about Connacht having less representation on the IRFU then the other provinces. Something about 1 member against 2 or something. I'm explaining this exceptionally poorly as my memory is hazy but am I completely making it up?

porterbelly

Podge_irl wrote: »

I recall reading something a few years back about Connacht having less representation on the IRFU then the other provinces. Something about 1 member against 2 or something. I'm explaining this exceptionally poorly as my memory is hazy but am I completely making it up?

No members at all afaik

JustinDee

Podge_irl wrote: »

I recall reading something a few years back about Connacht having less representation on the IRFU then the other provinces. Something about 1 member against 2 or something. I'm explaining this exceptionally poorly as my memory is hazy but am I completely making it up?

All done fairly and by proportion. Clubs committees elect to provincial committees which elect to union committees.
Next year's president is from Connacht, for example. There are others on active committees.
And as said earlier, none of the provinces is seperate to the IRFU.

leeroybrown

JustinDee wrote: »

No province is independent of the IRFU. They are just that: branches of it.

A bad choice of word on my part but my understanding was that outside of central contracts Leinster, Munster and Ulster always enjoyed a far higher degree of operational autonomy (mainly due to their greater Branch-level financial muscle). I'll take your word for it if you say otherwise.

Digifriendly

Deano7788 wrote: »

I really don't understand the problem with Connacht qualifying through this method. The rules state that winners of the Amlin/Heineken get an extra Heineken place if they've already qualified (unless they've already got an extra place). No matter which country the club comes from they are technically speaking not going to have earned it. For instance, if Saracens has gone on to win the Heineken, I think Wasps would have got the place. They're currently 11th in the league so wouldn't have earned it themselves but the rules mean they'd still be entitled to it, so why shouldn't Connacht be.

If a Welsh team was to win one of these tournaments and have already qualified, then every Welsh team would qualify also, so the situation is the same

Other sports were mentioned in comparison to this so I'll use soccer as another example. The winners of the F.A. Cup and the Carling Cup are entitled to a place in the Europa League. If they've already earned that through the league, that place is given to the runners up in the F.A Cup and the the highest placed team in the league that hasn't qualified already. If the runners up of the F.A. Cup have also qualified, their place goes to the next placed team. This rule is extremely similer to that in rugby, even though technically speaking these teams haven't earned it either.

Finally, Scottish and Italian teams don't have to earn their places either. They're automatically granted entry, no matter their league position. Next year, a new Italian team is going to enter the Heineken having never played a match

Very good post which states exactly the position for HC qualification. For years Connacht didn't qualify although every other club in the Celtic/Magnres/now Rabo did. They certainly did not disgrace themslves this season and I would be delighted if they were in next season's competition.
Probably ERC do have to look at the qualification process as English/French teams do seem at a disadvantage compared to their Celtic/Italian counterparts in terms of automatic qualification but how to solve this remains a problem for it could theotetically mean no Italian or Scottish teams would be in Europe's premier competition if all 4 had a poor season in the Pro 12. The Amlin cup has now only 4 teams left from one country and while 3 out of the 4 got there purely on merit (Biarritz failed to qualify for HEC and so this was a consolation) I'm sure head honchos at ERC are none too pleased as viewing figures esp. in UK will probably plummet when these games are telvised. (Remember Toulouse/Perpignan HC final).

OldRio

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

I don't understand why everyone thinks Connacht have some divine right to play in Europes premier competition.

It sends out the wrong signal to other unions and the English and French clubs feel quite aggrieved that our provinces just waltz into the competition unopposed. I think it undermines the stature of what is a compelling competition.

Waltz ??????
Divine right ??????

Madworld

Connacht could be equated to the average League of Ireland team in that they are in a catch 22 situation.

Problem 1. Many players aren't of the same quality as those at bigger teams.
Problem 2. Due to perceived player quality the club doesn't receive media recognition.
Problem 3. Fans perceive all players as being poor quality and poor crowds ensue.
Problem 4. Any good players leave due to the belief that they can't fulfil their potential at the club
Problem 5. Club doesn't have the money to replace these players and the club is back to problem 1.

its_phil

Madworld wrote: »

Connacht could be equated to the average League of Ireland team in that they are in a catch 22 situation.

Problem 1. Many players aren't of the same quality as those at bigger teams.
Problem 2. Due to perceived player quality the club doesn't receive media recognition.
Problem 3. Fans perceive all players as being poor quality and poor crowds ensue.
Problem 4. Any good players leave due to the belief that they can't fulfil their potential at the club
Problem 5. Club doesn't have the money to replace these players and the club is back to problem 1.

Please look up the attendance figures if you are going to state something that has improved quite significantly and state it as a problem. Also problem 3 certainly doesnt have a relationship with problem 4 considering the 4 main stars of the team left last year and attendances increased.

Madworld

its_phil wrote: »

Please look up the attendance figures if you are going to state something that has improved quite significantly and state it as a problem.

Just because something is improving doesn't mean its a problem. And I'm not saying the blame lies at Connacht's feet so you don't need to be so defensive. The simple fact is that Connacht doesn't attain the same level of attendances as the other provinces

Also problem 3 certainly doesnt have a relationship with problem 4 considering the 4 main stars of the team left last year and attendances increased

Attendances improved this year due to the Heineken Cup. Do you think attendances would have been up had it not been for this?

freyners

with the work the PGB has done this year i would be surprised if it hadnt, but certainly not by the almost 3 fold increase we have seen.

the season tickets are serious value, as are the walk ins

the clan stand makes the place more comfortable

the marketing is fantastic.

HC rugby was a huge bonus but to put it all there does a huge disservice to some excellent work behind the scenes

Winters

Regarding attendances and looking at it quite simply from a population point of view, Connacht's increase in attendances this year is brilliant but they cannot be expecting to consistantly match Leinster, Ulster and Munster as their catchment area (pop) is much smaller.

Provincial Populations:

Leinster: 2,501,208
Ulster: 1,954,727
Munster: 1,243,726
Connacht: 542,039

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provinces_of_Ireland

Average Home Attendances:

Leinster: 19,303 (0.77% of pop)
Ulster: 7,802 (0.39%)
Munster: 14,479 (1.16%)
Connacht: 4,550 (0.83%)

Source: http://www.munsterfans.com/threads/31143-RaboDirect-stats

Ulster have only 3,500 season ticket holders so with their on pitch improvements and ground investment they are going to target matching Leinter and Munster by increasing their season ticket sales over the next 3 to 4 years to over 10,000 in order to achieve average attendances of circa 15,000 which would equate to 0.77% of their catchment.

Third_Echelon

Very interesting thread and i've enjoyed reading the last few pages....

Connacht being in the HEC is great I think.The more fans they can get through the gates the better. They need the revenue as they are obviously the lowest in the pecking order in terms of financing by the IRFU. I'm a Leinster fan and for me the most enjoyable away game of the year is always Connacht in Galway. Great fans, greaty city and I always like Connacht's never say die attitude on the pitch. They know they are not as good as bigger teams, but they make it difficult for them. I'd watch a Connacht game if it was on TV for example... kinda my second favourite team....

Watching the Quins game in Galway in the last pool game I was screaming my head off at the TV supporting them. A real old school blood and guts game of rugby. Those type of nights are what rugby is all about... The underdog knuckling down and beating the big guy.

I don't care how teams qualify for the european competitions.... England and France have enough teams in their top league that they can award european places on league position. The Rabo Direct is different in that you would only really ever have the big guns from that qualifying for europe if it was based on league position.... for me anyway, the european competitions are about making sure that each nation is represented. The Rabo teams do have a slight advantage in that The big 3 irish teams, 2 scottish and 2 italians and 3 welsh all get in no matter how good they do in the league competition. If they changed the qualification format, I think it would be bad for the HEC as we would have the same teams every year in the competition and never ever see the likes of dragons, embra, glasgow (doing well this year), connacht or the italians...

Hopefully another Leinster H Cup and more Connacht in europe next year :-)

Shooter_galway

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

Once again, no matter what happens between now and the end of the season Connacht do not merit inclusion in the Heineken Cup. They are not good enough. This year showed they were the whipping boys of the competition.

Didn't do them any favours in the long run. It merely contributed to the worst losing streak in Irish rugby.

You having a laugh mate?! Whipped by Toulouse at home and were close in 4 other loses! Won against quins. Team needs exposure to hec to improve. I've been to every home game and only problem with not turning loses into wins is no wise head at 10 and parks will surely improve that.

Rocko

With 2 games left in the Pro12 and if Connacht have to be above the Dragons in the league to be certain of a Heineken spot next year.

Connacht should beat Aironi and probably lose to Glasgow...

Dragons will probably lose to Ospreys and final game at home to Leinster
I assume Leinster would send a strong enough team to Rodney Parade to ensure a win to help Connacht qualify!!!!!!!