Choosing colleges ...TCD or UCD

EDmon

Law in TCD is 505 vs. Law in UCD 485.
If one can achieve the higher points should that be put before the other?
Are course necessarily better just because they have higher points, and therefore more demand or less places?

If anyone has any information about either places to study law could you please give me your opinions or advice on how to choose a college.

I'd also be interested to hear about anyone's experiences in studying business or economics in either of the colleges.

Both courses seem good to me, how can I diffrenciate them and choose the right college for me?

Thanks.

blubloblu

EDmon wrote: »

Law in TCD is 505 vs. Law in UCD 485.
If one can achieve the higher points should that be put before the other?
Are course necessarily better just because they have higher points, and therefore more demand or less places?

If anyone can knows any information about either places to study law could you please give me your opinions or advise on how choose a college.

Both courses seem good to me, how can I diffrenciate them and choose the rigt college for me?

Thanks.

Points are determined by supply and demand. The demand being mostly that of 6th year students. You're relying on their collective judgement.

Things to look at: modules available, college facilities (location, sport clubs, societies), quality of lecturers, workload, helpfulness of school/department admin.

Some older threads: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054979170 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054893589

Denerick

Trinity is the better college. If you care about education you will always choose to study in Trinity over UCD (The exception being the generic business courses, which aren't really educational anyway - just codified bull****/articulated common sense wrapped up in an educational veneer)

I know this sounds very dickish and arrogant but it is an objective fact. Even UCD alumni will admit how terribly their university is run, how mediocre the courses are becoming, and how every a year a new batch of the great unwashed gets unleashed upon their arts departments.

NeuroCat

You should, as blubloblu said, look at the modules, facilities etc.

I chose my course in Trinity because I preferred the location, smaller campus and a different course structure than offered in the same degree in UCD.

I don't study law, but I know some people who do and both have good things to say about UCD and TCD. I guess it will come down to personal preference.

HavingCrack

Denerick wrote: »

Trinity is the better college. If you care about education you will always choose to study in Trinity over UCD (The exception being the generic business courses, which aren't really educational anyway - just codified bull****/articulated common sense wrapped up in an educational veneer)

I know this sounds very dickish and arrogant but it is an objective fact. Even UCD alumni will admit how terribly their university is run, how mediocre the courses are becoming, and how every a year a new batch of the great unwashed gets unleashed upon their arts departments.

As a final year UCD student (nearly finished thanfully) I have to agree. UCD is so poorly run it's disgraceful, administration alone was enough to turn me off the place-easily the most unhelpful people I've ever met. With the exception of engineering (where UCD is definately better) and the health sciences the standard of course content in UCD is appallingly low. The whole vibe of the place is far less academic also.

Anyone I know who did an undergrad in UCD and a postgrad in Trinity said there was no comparison in the standards whatsoever.

Go with Trinity.

FloatingVoter

OP, run an identical thread in the UCD forum. See what they say.
Consider it practice for later years when you are a judge. Best wishes either way.

Eathrin

I was actually settled with UCD for next year, basing my choice on a nicer campus, facilities etc..
I never exactly came to liking the TCD campus. It's in the city centre, which is a slightly longer bus ride(extra 15 mins on 145 about), has fewer facilities and some buildings just look awful(The arts blocks in both universities are awful to be fair). It's a very "grey" looking campus. Also you have to play football and other sports out in Santry, it's not even close and the pitches are shocking out there!
I never got a chance to go to a science open day in TCD or any presentations simply for a lack of them!

I'm doing Maths or Physics next year, I have Science MPS(UCD) as #1 and Theoretical physics(TCD) as #3 on my CAO.
I'm starting to doubt myself now.
I know it's an age old argument, which college is better, and alumni of repective colleges will say theirs is better, but can anybody give an objective weigh up of the pros and cons of either, keeping in mind I want to do Physics/Maths?

Denerick

Eathrin wrote: »

I was actually settled with UCD for next year, basing my choice on a nicer campus, facilities etc..
I never exactly came to liking the TCD campus. It's in the city centre, which is a slightly longer bus ride(extra 15 mins on 145 about), has fewer facilities and some buildings just look awful(The arts blocks in both universities are awful to be fair). It's a very "grey" looking campus. Also you have to play football and other sports out in Santry, it's not even close and the pitches are shocking out there!
I never got a chance to go to a science open day in TCD or any presentations simply for a lack of them!

I'm doing Maths or Physics next year, I have Science MPS(UCD) as #1 and Theoretical physics(TCD) as #3 on my CAO.
I'm starting to doubt myself now.
I know it's an age old argument, which college is better, and alumni of repective colleges will say theirs is better, but can anybody give an objective weigh up of the pros and cons of either, keeping in mind I want to do Physics/Maths?

If you want to do physics and math then Trinity is clearly the better choice. UCD is better in some niche fields but for pure scientific pursuit of this nature then TCD has a much richer academic history and more significant heavyweights in it's faculty. That is the core distinction.

Having major concerns over sporting facilities and bus journeys baffles me to be perfectly honest... This is your degree, not a holiday camp. Although college is pretty hedonistic I'd still primarily base my choice on the superior educational institution, with the facilities and other peripherals a distant afterthought.

Again, I'm being a proper nob-end about this, but speaking objectively you should choose the college which offers the best education. If playing sports is your preoccupation then perhaps you should have become a professional footballer... there really isn't any dilemma here...

Eathrin

Denerick wrote: »

If you want to do physics and math then Trinity is clearly the better choice. UCD is better in some niche fields but for pure scientific pursuit of this nature then TCD has a much richer academic history and more significant heavyweights in it's faculty. That is the core distinction.

Having major concerns over sporting facilities and bus journeys baffles me to be perfectly honest... This is your degree, not a holiday camp. Although college is pretty hedonistic I'd still primarily base my choice on the superior educational institution, with the facilities and other peripherals a distant afterthought.

Again, I'm being a proper nob-end about this, but speaking objectively you should choose the college which offers the best education. If playing sports is your preoccupation then perhaps you should have become a professional footballer... there really isn't any dilemma here...

Thanks, I'm actually quite an academic person, but I only consider that to be one part of my life. When I go to college I intend on embracing all aspects of it. That includes playing sports and joining societies of things I enjoy. Of course I find it very important that the end result is obtaining a good degree but for my time spent there I don't want to just remember my university experience as purely an academic one. It is a significant period of time that one spends there so I'd rather have all my desires looked after:)

That said, I have heard before that TCD possesses a superior science department, whether that's an impartial opinion or not I don't know.

dalax

Eathrin wrote: »

That said, I have heard before that TCD possesses a superior science department, whether that's an impartial opinion or not I don't know.

For what it's worth, the QS rankings for Maths and Physics seem to hold Trinity in higher esteem (particularly for the former).

NeuroCat

Eathrin wrote: »

I was actually settled with UCD for next year, basing my choice on a nicer campus, facilities etc..
I never exactly came to liking the TCD campus. It's in the city centre, which is a slightly longer bus ride(extra 15 mins on 145 about), has fewer facilities and some buildings just look awful(The arts blocks in both universities are awful to be fair). It's a very "grey" looking campus. Also you have to play football and other sports out in Santry, it's not even close and the pitches are shocking out there!
I never got a chance to go to a science open day in TCD or any presentations simply for a lack of them!

I'm doing Maths or Physics next year, I have Science MPS(UCD) as #1 and Theoretical physics(TCD) as #3 on my CAO.
I'm starting to doubt myself now.
I know it's an age old argument, which college is better, and alumni of repective colleges will say theirs is better, but can anybody give an objective weigh up of the pros and cons of either, keeping in mind I want to do Physics/Maths?

Just on that note, TCD is ranked 15th in the world for Maths. Which is quite impressive considering the size of the university compared with the massive US colleges.

It's also ranked 3rd in the world for Immunology, and within the top 1% for Neuroscience. These figures mightn't represent the quality of teaching at all, but rather give an indication of the quality of research and papers published by the given departments. Therefore they may be more relevent for postgraduate study but it's worth taking note of!

ride-the-spiral

Eathrin wrote: »

I'm doing Maths or Physics next year, I have Science MPS(UCD) as #1 and Theoretical physics(TCD) as #3 on my CAO.
I'm starting to doubt myself now.
I know it's an age old argument, which college is better, and alumni of repective colleges will say theirs is better, but can anybody give an objective weigh up of the pros and cons of either, keeping in mind I want to do Physics/Maths?

As a theoretical physics student, you're lectured and assessed by both the school of maths and physics. However as the years go on, most of the stuff that one would associate with theoretical physics are taught by the school of maths and a lot of theoretical physics students prefer the school of maths over the school of physics in terms of material covered, assessment methods etc.

First off, I can't say much against the school of maths. You get a very good grounding in calculus, linear algebra and mechanics in first year (and this year first years did C++ as well), and each of these is taught to a higher standard than would be if you were a general physics student, especially mechanics which physics only do for the first semester of first year. The higher standard is more to do with the entry requirements though, as everybody in maths/TP had to have gotten a HB3 in maths but not everyone in physics has to have even done physics (I don't know the maths requirement.) So purely because of prerequisites, you'll be doing harder (and more interesting) modules through the school of maths as a TP student than you would if you were a general physics student.

There's quite a few things which are different about how you're taught by the school of physics. First, understandably as a physics student, you'll have to take labs ,but the labs never feel very well organised. You're almost always doing an experiment on material which you haven't covered yet and the lab manual doesn't do a very good job of explaining it either. Although it's a relatively easy 30% of your physics grade, it can be quite stressful at times, mainly due to not really knowing whats going on in a lab. Perhaps UCD's labs are better organised, or perhaps this is a nationwide thing due to lack of funding or time constraints, I don't know.

Now in physics you get the main textbook, "University Physics" free, which seemed fine until you realise that your only means of assessment for the year is a horrific online tutorial system called Mastering Physics (I'll let the urban dictionary page fill you in http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mastering%20physics). Also most of your lectures are sort of required to use this as their main textbook, so if they don't do certain things from the book or use another book, you end up having homework questions on things you've never done. I never really liked that assessment was out of the lecturers hands. Overall, physics seems not quite as well organised as the maths side of things. But I've focused a bit much on the negatives here, and you're actual lectures and lecturers are very good in physics, with most of the topics being interesting and well dealt with. It's just that physics seems to give less control to the lecturer as to what they're teaching, and how you're being assessed.

Anyway I've ranted a good bit more than I thought I would there... If you were to choose between MPS and TP in trinity I would say go for TP. Most of your degree will end up being spent in the maths side of things, but because of the prerequisites for being in maths lectures you don't really lose out on any of the physics. Whereas if you do physics you will do things later or not at all that would be done in the school of maths. This is quite obvious in trinity science as only 2/3 of your course is maths/physics whereas TP's do all physics. I've looked at the UCD physics modules a bit and trinity definitely do things earlier; UCD do analytic mechanics in 3rd year whereas Trinity do it in 2nd year; in TP you do special relativity in first year and chaos in 2nd year; Trinity do quantum field theory in 4th year.

Anyway, good luck with your choice!

Maybe_Memories

In typical Trinity-dickhead fashion, I'd have to say that if you have to ask which is better then you've already made you choice.


And now in all seriousness, I didn't read the whole thing, just saw something about maths; TCD maths is brilliant. That's all there is to say.

Brian

Both bad.

Sniedel

Denerick wrote: »

Trinity is the better college. If you care about education you will always choose to study in Trinity over UCD (The exception being the generic business courses, which aren't really educational anyway - just codified bull****/articulated common sense wrapped up in an educational veneer)

I know this sounds very dickish and arrogant but it is an objective fact. Even UCD alumni will admit how terribly their university is run, how mediocre the courses are becoming, and how every a year a new batch of the great unwashed gets unleashed upon their arts departments.

Surely a troll. The UCD law school have been utterly professional in any dealings i've had with them. On the other hand, a mate in TCD had his erasmus cancelled by the college because they hadn't picked a university that was relevant to his course (this was after he'd been accepted).

I think someone said something about points being dictated by supply and demand, which is obviously correct. He didn't mention that UCD has four more law courses than TCD - economics, history, philosophy, and the ridiculously hard maitrise, plus everything else TCD has (except for german). UCD's points are lower because of a higher supply rather than TCD's higher demand. Everyone in my course got over 515 points, and the average was 560 - and this is not unusual, at least for the law with's.


Also, I'm glad we agree that everyone hates arts students.

meathawk

Sniedel wrote: »

Also, I'm glad we agree that everyone hates arts students.

I believe Denerick is an Arts student studying History.

Denerick wrote: »

I know this sounds very dickish and arrogant but it is an objective fact. Even UCD alumni will admit how terribly their university is run, how mediocre the courses are becoming, and how every a year a new batch of the great unwashed gets unleashed upon their arts departments.

Trinity alumni especially those from the Engineering and Sociology departments are more than happy to bore you to death about how poorly their courses are run and how non-existent their tutors presence have become. The objective fact is that both UCD and Trinity have slipped hugely in the last few years.

If I had known how much of a joke third-level education would become in Ireland 4 years ago I would've definitely applied abroad. Also that 'great unwashed' comment was unnecessary. It only reinforces your role on boards as that pretentious ninny who goes to Trinity.

Denerick

meathawk wrote: »

I believe Denerick is an Arts student studying History.

Graduated about three years ago.

Trinity alumni especially those from the Engineering and Sociology departments are more than happy to bore you to death about how poorly their courses are run and how non-existent their tutors presence have become. The objective fact is that both UCD and Trinity have slipped hugely in the last few years.

Tutors have more important things to do than spoon feed second rate halfwits who can't summon an original idea of their own. The third level education system panders way too much, and leaves too little breathing room for personal development (IE, the world class library at your disposal)

If I had known how much of a joke third-level education would become in Ireland 4 years ago I would've definitely applied abroad. Also that 'great unwashed' comment was unnecessary. It only reinforces your role on boards as that pretentious ninny who goes to Trinity.

The problem with students nowadays is that they have no sense of irony. If I wanted to talk to a vegetable I would have went to Tesco's.

meathawk

Denerick wrote: »

Graduated about three years ago.

Denerick wrote: »

spoon feed second rate halfwits who can't summon an original idea of their own.

Says the man who studied* History.

Denerick

meathawk wrote: »

Says the man who studied* History.

Bravo.

superblu

The talent in ucd is out of this world. The lake on a hot day has to be seen to be believed. Being an Orts graduate myself I whiled away many an hour giving birds marks out of ten at various locations on campus. As good as any reason to go to ucd.

EuropeanSon

As several have already said, our Maths department is excellent. I couldn't imagine UCD comparing. The TP/Maths course is certainly better (in terms of covering more material) than UCD's courses. The downside to that, obviously, is that it is consequently a more difficult course.

Yalu

As someone who has attended both universities (different courses in each) I'd have to say Trinity is by far the better of the two. My course in Trinity was far better-taught, in terms of both teaching and facilities. I have also found Trinity is much better-administered; for instance the tutor system is a lot more effective than UCD's student advisor system.

The location is also fantastic; you might not think this matters, but after spending a few years out in the sticks of south Dublin, having to walk through an isolated campus as a woman on your own at night or whatever, you start to appreciate the city centre campus.

I'm not saying everything in Trinity is better, so it may depend on your own priorities, but in general it just feels a lot more like a university.

Fergus_Nash

Denerick wrote: »

I would have went to Tesco's.

Obviously Trinity doesn't teach grammar.

Just sayin...

Lawliet

Fergus_Nash wrote: »

Obviously Trinity doesn't teach grammar.

Just sayin...

Yes unfortunately that course didn't survive the cut backs, to be fair I don't think UCD have an equivalent, so I don't really see how your point is relevant in this thread.

Denerick

Fergus_Nash wrote: »

Obviously Trinity doesn't teach grammar.

Just sayin...

Good grammar is the last refuge of the unimaginative.

Crann na Beatha

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Groinshot

meathawk wrote: »

Trinity alumni especially those from the Engineering and Sociology departments are more than happy to bore you to death about how poorly their courses are run and how non-existent their tutors presence have become.

What's a tutor?

languagenerd

Aquila wrote: »

If i wanted to study English and Linguistics which is the better university?

I could be wrong about this, but I don't think you can combine English with Linguistics in TCD. There's either English Single Honours or English with another TSM subject (languages, humanities, music, maths etc.) and "Computer Science, Linguistics and a Language" (French/German/Irish)

So that might be your decision made, unfortunately...

languagenerd

Fergus_Nash wrote: »

Obviously Trinity doesn't teach grammar.

Just sayin'...

Obviously UCD doesn't either :P

Sniedel

Aquila wrote: »

If i wanted to study English and Linguistics which is the better university?

The arts, in general, have a better reputation in Trinity. That said, I'm not sure you can study English and Linguistics there, while you can in UCD.

https://myucd.ucd.ie/programme_info/firstyearexplained.ezc?pageID=1365

languagenerd wrote: »

Obviously UCD doesn't either :P

You forgot a full stop.

Yalu wrote: »

The location is also fantastic; you might not think this matters, but after spending a few years out in the sticks of south Dublin, having to walk through an isolated campus as a woman on your own at night or whatever, you start to appreciate the city centre campus.

Sound advice, UCD can be tough to get to for everyone who doesn't live on the southside of Dublin.

Yalu wrote: »

I'm not saying everything in Trinity is better, so it may depend on your own priorities, but in general it just feels a lot more like a university.

I'm not sure where I stand with this. Obviously different universities have different niches where they excel, and it just so happens that TCD has more of these "niches" than anywhere else - arts, maths, science, law, probably something else I've forgotten. UCD on the other hand has law and business as its areas of expertise. Doesn't necessarily make it any better or worse.

Crann na Beatha

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