Studying Law!

dvoakes · 22-02-2006 12:49pm #1

Thinking about doing Law as mature student next year. Just wondering has anyone got any comments on it. Is anyone doing it at the moment? What can I expect if i take it on?

Any comments would be much appreciated.

Time Magazine · 22-02-2006 1:09pm

Well until you get to the Bar you can expect this:

Then you can expect about five years of using this:

Until after that you expect an average salary of about €130,000. So this:

europerson · 22-02-2006 1:16pm

In food terms, the progression is:

to

here.

dvoakes · 22-02-2006 3:39pm

so is it a recommended career path then? I really don't know what to expect. I think i'd be interested in it. I hope i'd be interested enough to really get into it. is it just a lot of reading and regurgatating what you've read?

Thirdfox · 22-02-2006 11:53pm

First off... I love dangermouse... now that's out of the way

I'm a junior freshman (1st year) law student in Trinity.

Law isn't just about regurgitation of knowledge - rather it is about the critical analysis of key judgements (and statutes) in order to find the deciding principles that will allow your client to win (or lose the least

) - that's what I think the law is about at the moment. You should be able to argue both points at the same time (strange and awkward but apparently necessary).

We have a few mature students doing law so you won't be alone in doing the course. Hours are great - 9 a week! The rest, you're expected to spend in the library... but no-one seems to take that suggestion seriously.

Career path-wise law is a good choice... it is one of the few careers that you should become more valuable as you progress in life - similar to medicine, accountancy etc.

Law books are expensive circa. €80-150 per book but Trinity's library is well-stocked (except during essay deadline times

)

Some law students in Trinity have set up a forum just for people interested in doing or who are actually law students. It can be found on:

www.lawintrinity.com

hope to see you there!

and Angry Banana... is that a porsche boxster???
Uuh! Hate porsches! Ferrari all the way

(and smart cars

)

europerson · 23-02-2006 9:09am

Thirdfox wrote:

is that a porsche boxster???

No, it's a 911.

Thirdfox · 23-02-2006 10:40am

You can see my hate for all things porsche...

911/Boxster... what's the difference (apart from the quadrupling (?) of prices?

)

blahblah1234 · 23-02-2006 1:05pm

What job would you expect straight away from studying Law?......and what salary from those jobs. I'm on about the jobs without having to do further study, just straight away after the 4 years.

Although I know many people go on further and want to become a solicitor. Do you have to be fluent in the Irish Language to become a solicitor?

Thirdfox · 23-02-2006 3:20pm

First off as a 1st year law student I'm not too sure of what's my options 3 years down the line (so my comments may not be fully accurate or correct!)

Currently both solicitors and barristers need to pass an exam in Irish... the official rule is that you need to be able to "communicate" in Irish i.e. discuss a case without help from an interpretor - but I've been assured that it's not that strict.

Most people either work in journalism/office jobs after law (if pursuing the barrister route) - but I think the rules has been changed so as to allow them to work in a pub if they want.

As a trainee solicitor you'll probably join a firm and therefore wouldn't need to worry about employment any more - I've no idea what starting wages are.

The academic route - you can progress onto a Masters in law and then a PhD if you want

Getting a job in an university shouldn't be too hard (again, no idea what the climate for jobs will be in 10, 20 years down the line will be).

dvoakes · 23-02-2006 3:36pm

Thanks, Thirdfox i've registered on your forum. Just having a read through it at the moment.

Is the workload the same the whole way through the degree? I mean do you do 9 hours a week per year and hit the books for the rest? I've tried to read up on how different places teach law. You can do it in Portobello\Griffith over 3 years but the quality of the degree wouldn't be much compared to Trinity I would imagine. It is awarded by the University of Wales and I haven't liked them since they beat us in the Rugby.

And say if you do Constitutional Law and Criminal Law this year is that it. Or do you do Constitutional Law II and Criminal Law II next year?

What days are the classes on because job sharing would be an option for me that maybe I could work out.

Thirdfox · 23-02-2006 4:19pm

We have Con law II next year but criminal law is over (there is a criminology option available in 3rd or 4th year).

We have classes every day (strange huh?) It's like they want us to suffer by dragging us into Trinity for a 6 o'clock lecture.

Workload-wise you should ask some 4th years... I'm pretty sure that they have much more hours to do (though not necessarily in lectures... maybe xEducat can help you out there...)

The law forum isn't all that serious... we just mess around and talk about stuff (not necessarily anything to do with law) but if you ask questions I'm sure people will try to give you answers.

Portobello college... I'm not sure - I did see an ad saying they've got the best property law lecturer there (please don't sue me for libel if that's not true!) I do know that we have the best library facilities in Ireland (and law does require extensive reading so it helps

)

dvoakes · 23-02-2006 5:00pm

do you mind me asking what timetable that you have at the moment. what hours are you there every day?

Thirdfox · 23-02-2006 9:09pm

Mon:
10-11 - Con law
17-18 - Crim law

Tues:
12-13 - LSM Seminar (fortnightly)
17-18 - Crim law

Weds:
14-15 - LRRW Seminar (fortnightly)
16-17 - Tort Seminar (fortnightly)
18-19 - Con Seminar (fortnightly)

Thurs:
11-12 - Tort law
16-18 - LSM law

Fri:
9-10 - Con law
10-11 - Tort law
16-17 - Crim Seminar (fortnightly)

- one week we have the con and crim seminars
- the other week we have the LSM, LRRW and tort seminars

all in all not a very hectic schedule

but as I said you have something everyday so it can be a bit annoying

Nike_Dude · 24-02-2006 12:48pm

I'm in third year law. It's a great course and if you think you would be interested in it then you should go for it. The workload in terms of lectures is really small (You only have 8hrs lectures a week throughout the course). In relation to the amount of time spent in the library its really up to how much you want to spend in it. In first year you can get away with just going to prepare for seminars and to do essays etc and second year is pretty much the same though the subjects are more demanding (depending on who is lecturing them:) however it is a good idea to try and spend as much time as possible in the lib in the first two years as you really have to spend loads in third and fourth year as your results from these years go towards your overall degree, plus in 3rd and 4th year seminars are eased off and many subjects dont even have any so if you arent consistently doing the work then you're going to have serious problems come the start of May.

First and second year is just covering the basics (1st year = Constitutional, Criminal, Tort and a stupid subject called Legal Systems and Methods which is essentially a sort of crash course into law) (2nd year= Constitutional 2, Land law, Contract, and EU law) Then in 3rd and 4th year you choose your own subjects from a list of about 20. The first two years are essentially about learning whats in the main text books and the lecture notes, but by the time you come to the last two years the lecturers are looking more for opinions and different abilities that should have been learned over the first two years.

The standard of Irish you need to be a solicitor is not very high, its essentially leaving cert ordinary level and if you are able to keep up with the work in law then you shouldnt have much problems in learning a bit of irish. Once you get your degree it is essentially down to what you want to do. The professional route (solicitor and barrister) involves more exams and apprenticeships, but the demand for this is increasing so finding a solicitor or barrister to take you on is not that easy and good marks are very important.

Basically if you think you would enjoy it, find it interesting and would be able to motivate yourself to go to the library and do work yourself without being pushed by lecturers then you should go for it.

Famous_Séamus · 01-04-2007 6:36pm

Thinking about doing Law in Trinity next year and had a few questions. Didnt want to start a new thread though. Hopefully someone can answer them. Thanks!

I know that a lot of law is taken up with reading. I was wondering what type of books are studied/read for the most part.

I also heard from a few people that a keen interest in politics is "needed" to do law. Is this true, is there a strong emphasis on politics?

Thanks again.

Sangre · 03-04-2007 2:11am

Currently doing masters in law in Trinity.

While it is a well paying job it is currently extremely competitive to get a place in a firm or become a barrister earning even the average industry wage. Do not expect to walk into a well paying job. For example in October there were over 2000 people sitting the FE1s with me.

I know that a lot of law is taken up with reading. I was wondering what type of books are studied/read for the most part.

eh...law books?

What job would you expect straight away from studying Law?......and what salary from those jobs. I'm on about the jobs without having to do further study, just straight away after the 4 years.

pretty much anything as you won't be qualified to do anything.

panda142 · 01-02-2009 1:47pm

Hey guys, hope ye "TCD heads" can answer my questions....

Im in final semester of my degree at UCD and seriously thinking about doing an LLM in Trinity next year. Anyone doing one at the minute and want to tell me what its like?!

Also, whats the story with accommodation for postgrads? Is there a campus and where is it?!

YogiBoy · 01-02-2009 7:12pm

lawintrinity.com is now available for sale, I am afraid...
if there are any takers, go to www.who.is

yekrab · 01-02-2009 11:54pm

Famous_Séamus, indeed, indeed, what type of books, law books it tends to be...some can be tedious to the bone, land law is notorious for that, trust me i no. if u dont like reading, yr goin to the wrong course/profession. ull be readin till the cows come home. y trinity? ah fair play to the trinners, have to give credit where it is due, like the trinity law library is prob the best 3rd level library at any university standard for law. generally the pretentiousness and pompousness of the trinners also goes unparalled at any law standard, (excludin kings inn).

anyone who is thinkin about doin law, well the truth is i wish that u wouldnt. ireland is filled to the teeth with barristers and solicitors, dont need any more. around 2000 barristers at the moment, not too much the average laybum might infer, but consider that it was 500 ONLY 20 years ago goes to show that the demand will be non existing very soon, i no stories that would make yr mother cringe, (like a 30 sumthin year old barrister livin still with his parents, on the bread line, after being called nearly 10 years before that etc etc, thats just a nice story), the truth is people are attracted by the glamor but the reality is that if u manage to qualify and pass the bar (which you readin this probably wont) u will spend the subsequent 6 years fightn to keep above the bread line, so hopes of the big bucks is only generally a skewed fantasy. as for solicitors the numbers arent much better, except ull find that the intelligence of the average solicitor is significantly less than what it should be.

for law books, its a joke, the professor of what ever university ull go to, would prob have his own version of the subject and will have a monopoly on it in the local university library no doubt (so ull be readin that) and it wll cost an arm and a leg, 80euro is a cheap one. ill tell u a little story, ull go into the store to get the 'essential' book, then, ull turn it over, 139, euro on the back.

i no this from my own experience as an experienced law student, so i dont want any schoolies or freshers gratuitously tryin to tell me whats what, i tell u whats what.

yekrab · 02-02-2009 12:27am

REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT READ THIS, HOLY GRAIL INFORMATION.

this is some seminal impartial advice for the prospetive law students as to which law books are the best to get, (and also to the law students who havent gotten the book or are unsatified with it.)

1) constitutional law- get the kelly book, best in ireland. i have the casey one... and the truth is in my humble and respectful opinion that casey's one is nowhere near as good, as leaves out some important information.

2) tort law- some good treatises on this subject, the best ones are by a) McMahon and Binchy, and b) Eoin Quill. never get any other book, seriously, even if the professor tells u to get so and so, u have to get quill or mcmahon and binchy. (i have both) maybe quill's slightly as the upper hand on M & B because some important recent cases are in it, (Glencar plc v Dickman etc) (its newer than M & B ,9 YEARS since the last edition)

3) criminal law- without a shadow of a doubt, the best for the beginner undergraduate student is conor hanley's law book (40euro). he teaches in NUIG. i have this book and mcauley&mccutheon's book. the latter is very good, but overwhelmin for a beginner, some really important cases are omitted bcos of outdatedness, like R v G which practically rendered a full chapiter on strict liability non-applicable anymore in their book. (but great book, for someone who wants to get a deeper understandin of criminal law, beyond the requirement for the entrance exams).

if anybody wants to know more about this topic of which other books are the best to get, then i look forward to any enquiries.

also id really like to hear other people's opinions on the topic.

mista_c · 02-02-2009 12:30am

Hey!

Im studying law and german at Trinity at the moment...and I find the law aspect incredibly boring. Sometimes I cant help but wonder whether the lack of hours is a good thing. Law definitely isn't what I expected. If your planning on doing it, you should definitely make sure you are making the right decision. I did work experience, and liked it. Yet I still dislike studying law at 3rd level. If you LOVE reading (mostly boring material) - go for it. If you think you would be able to spend HOURS reading in a freezing cold library - go for it. You really need to be well organised and self-disciplined. Its very easy to fall behind and the lecturers move very quickly. I find that students are pretty much left to their own devices, unlike other courses nobody really moniters our progress. On the other hand, the german department gives us feedback regularly.

I'm not saying not to study law...Its a great degree to have (at least that's what I keep telling myself to stay motivated)...but all I would say is to make sure you really really want to do it. Although that may not be very helpful because I remember a time when I wanted to study it as well...

yekrab · 02-02-2009 12:37am

nobody listen to mista c's injudicious comment.

u didnt even respond to my question.

people respond to my above enquiry.

sid4lev · 02-02-2009 10:31am

yekrab wrote: »

REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT READ THIS, HOLY GRAIL INFORMATION.

this is some seminal impartial advice for the prospetive law students as to which law books are the best to get, (and also to the law students who havent gotten the book or are unsatified with it.)

1) constitutional law- get the kelly book, best in ireland. i have the casey one... and the truth is in my humble and respectful opinion that casey's one is nowhere near as good, as leaves out some important information.

2) tort law- some good treatises on this subject, the best ones are by a) McMahon and Binchy, and b) Eoin Quill. never get any other book, seriously, even if the professor tells u to get so and so, u have to get quill or mcmahon and binchy. (i have both) maybe quill's slightly as the upper hand on M & B because some important recent cases are in it, (Glencar plc v Dickman etc) (its newer than M & B ,9 YEARS since the last edition)

3) criminal law- without a shadow of a doubt, the best for the beginner undergraduate student is conor hanley's law book (40euro). he teaches in NUIG. i have this book and mcauley&mccutheon's book. the latter is very good, but overwhelmin for a beginner, some really important cases are omitted bcos of outdatedness, like R v G which practically rendered a full chapiter on strict liability non-applicable anymore in their book. (but great book, for someone who wants to get a deeper understandin of criminal law, beyond the requirement for the entrance exams).

if anybody wants to know more about this topic of which other books are the best to get, then i look forward to any enquiries.

also id really like to hear other people's opinions on the topic.

To please your very "loveable" self:p, consider your post "responded to".:D
My opinion of the best books per subject:
Constitutional-JM.Kelly (undisputed)
EU-Chalmers et al (maybe de burca-thats a bit more dated though)
Tort-M&B (undisputed)
Contract-Clark (there are so many good ones out there though)
Company-Courtney (without a doubt)
Criminal-I got the english Smith & Hogan for 15 eur online-its excellent (arguably the bible of criminal law within Common law jurisdictions) but obviously no irish cases, statutes. Because Conor Hanly is a brilliant lecturer (i have him this evening-yey!!) i would assume his book is equally as good, but i havent actually read it because i dont have the time and i heard its too simple and i have his lecture notes, which is essentially the same thing!
Equity- Delany
Land- REALLY DONT GIVE A SH*T

I had to do a module called "commercial law" in 2nd year for which the recommended text was Fidelma whites "commercial law"...i bought it and at the time i thought it was a 130eur rip-off as i could only use it for one module: BUT ...come final year...i did modules in inter alia: international business law, alternative dispute resolution, intellectual property law, insurance law, banking law and i discovered that the above book had SECTIONS on ALL of those subjects...,Whites text was a brilliant investment-very easy to read and simple but with enough info to get you the grades you want....and SO much it!!

yekrab · 02-02-2009 5:50pm

ah i appreciate u responding, but i not too sure that i agree with u 'undisputin' Mcmahon & Binchy, the former author is a judge, the latter is a professpr at trinity, (and notably the brother of the famous irish female writer Maeve Binchy) so their book has always been emphasised, in all fairness i think their book is great, but some aspects mayb make it not as good as quills. like for example the 3rd newest ed of m and b is like a semi-casebook, a lot of it is judgments, its a bit out of date as well, 9 years. i think u should look at Quill's book.

Katiewilson · 09-02-2009 6:46am

]Nice post. Thank you for sharing information. There are some tribunal advocates who advises clients on employment relation matters and employment legislation. It is very helpful as the team ensures that clients are provided with Employment Law answers that are legally accurate and practical

almostnever · 22-05-2009 3:21pm

This is probably going to be a really stupid question,but roughly how many books would you be needing to buy going into first year? Thanks in advance to anyone who answers

bright · 22-05-2009 7:21pm

yekrab wrote: »

REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT READ THIS, HOLY GRAIL INFORMATION.

(Glencar plc v Dickman etc) (its newer than M & B ,9 YEARS since the last edition)

Glencar v Mayo is an Irish case. Caparo v. Dickman was the HOL precursor to that Irish case. Hope you haven't just done an exam on that.

With respect to the above question. Friends of mine in law have gone through the LLB without buying any books. That said they have meticulously renewed books throughout their time in college and have spent huge sums of money on photocopying, and failing that have had to go without certain books.

Buying books is an expensive luxury that will save you a ton of hassle, but you can get some of them cheap if the recent edition of a book is on sale at the law soc booksale. I had just bought principles of the irish legal system for 83 euro in hodges figgis to later see my smarmy friend pick up his for 20 quid at the book sale. bah. But in fairness, I needn't have bought the book.

almostnever · 22-05-2009 8:36pm

Cool,thank you

another question :rolleyes:
Would being good at science and English and economics help? I don't mean so much academically,but is that the kind of mindset I should have?
I'm sorry for all the questions :$

rc28 · 23-05-2009 5:00pm

almostnever wrote: »

Cool,thank you

another question :rolleyes:
Would being good at science and English and economics help? I don't mean so much academically,but is that the kind of mindset I should have?
I'm sorry for all the questions :$

Well being good at english is a vital asset in law- you need to be able to write well and express your thoughts clearly. Obviously it would help with all the essays too. Not sure about science but I was very good at Economics and English and am loving law now (apart from the exams!) if that's worth anything to you.

almostnever · 23-05-2009 5:08pm

^ Ah,brilliant! That's it so,down on the CAO it goes. Now I just need the points:rolleyes:

Thanks for your help. Good luck in your exams!

Jim_Are_Great · 24-05-2009 11:15am

bright wrote: »

Glencar v Mayo is an Irish case. Caparo v. Dickman was the HOL precursor to that Irish case. Hope you haven't just done an exam on that.

OMGz Legal PWNAGE!

Studying Law!

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