Question about communion

garysully1986

This is my first time posting in this forum,

I was thinking for the last few days, I have no religous beliefs anymore but in the future if I decide to have kids they will obviously do the whole religion thing in school but what happens in regards to communion and confirmation.

I wont beat around the bush here, I don't want my kids to feel victimised because I dont have any beliefs, So would you have you're kids make their communion and confirmation so as not to feel left out from the rest of the group?

Even as mean as it sounds kids now days look forward to all the money they get for these ceremonies.

Do you proceed with these ceremonies with your own children or will you in the future?

that's the worst most stupid reason to have them make communion behind "so they can get money"

no of course not
the place is not 100% catholic for goodness' sakes

garysully1986

bluewolf wrote: »

that's the worst most stupid reason to have them make communion behind "so they can get money"

no of course not
the place is not 100% catholic for goodness' sakes

I wasnt implying it would be the only reason, I was merely suggesting, I have relatives with small kids and this was the only thing they seemed to talk about.

Maybe it was just growing up in my day 99% of kids made their communion, It could be completely different nowdays, Just a simple question??

TwoShedsJackson

garysully1986 wrote: »

This is my first time posting in this forum,

I was thinking for the last few days, I have no religous beliefs anymore but in the future if I decide to have kids they will obviously do the whole religion thing in school but what happens in regards to communion and confirmation.

It's not obvious at all - don't send your kids to a Catholic school and they don't have to take part in these bizarre rituals. When the time comes, find an Educate Together school to send them too. Yes this may involve sacrifice of time getting them there etc. but only by ceasing to tacitly accept a 'Catholic ethos' in schools, can the grip of this ridiculous cult be lessened.

garysully1986

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

It's not obvious at all - don't send your kids to a Catholic school and they don't have to take part in these bizarre rituals. When the time comes, find an Educate Together school to send them too. Yes this may involve sacrifice of time getting them there etc. but only by ceasing to tacitly accept a 'Catholic ethos' in schools, can the grip of this ridiculous cult be lessened.

Thanks a million, I dont know why but I never thought of that

b318isp

I see some choices:

1. You ask the school for them not to be part of communion
2. You ask for them to go through the preparation and mass, but not to part-take in the sacramental part
3. Let them go through with the whole thing without making a huge fuss about it.

I did number 3.

MyKeyG

I'm shocked at bluewolfs reply to be honest, nor do I think you're obliged to explain yourself to such an undiplomatic response. Maybe he doesn't have children and therefore doesn't realise what it can be like to be left out. Perhaps he feels that atheists should deprive their kids of the religious festivals of Christmas and Easter because it's all about the Presents and Chocolate eggs respectively.

You're quite right OP. Despite declining interest in religion in the last decade particularly, for secular reasons I think the customs accompanied with Catholicism will remain for a while yet. I would recommend an open approach to the subject. Allow them to respect and observe religious activities if they so wish but I would encourage them to search understanding in what it is they're doing.

WolfgangWeisen

So they should do the communion/confirmation because a: their friends are doing it and b: there's money involved? I'm not going to attack you over that as that thinking is the predominant reason so many children are made "Catholic" every year in Ireland. It's wrong though, utterly wrong.

As said above, Educate Together schools are more available than ever and there are more on their way as we speak. Personally, I am unbaptized/christened and wasn't welcome in Catholic schools, I was brought up without religion however attended Protestant schools. In said schools, I never had religion forced down my throat at any point so failing getting entry to an Educate Together school, I would certainly not hesitate to recommend Church of Ireland schools.

I will also add, a lot of Catholic parents seemingly saw the Protestant schools as better places to send their "Catholic" children, as our school had lots of them

MyKeyG

MyKeyG wrote: »

I'm shocked at bluewolfs reply to be honest, nor do I think you're obliged to explain yourself to such an undiplomatic response. Maybe he doesn't have children and therefore doesn't realise what it can be like to be left out. Perhaps he feels that atheists should deprive their kids of the religious festivals of Christmas and Easter because it's all about the Presents and Chocolate eggs respectively.

You're right. Every child in this country goes to a christian school, none of them are muslim or hindu or non-christian, and if they were they would all suffer crippling anxiety because they can't partake in this particular religious ritual.
ET schools don't exist, and "not wanting to be left out" is a perfect reason to do anything whatsoever

I have no idea what chocolate eggs have to do with anything

And "because i dont have kids i don't know what it's like to be left out"? really? that's your argument?
i was never a kid, no?

MyKeyG

WolfgangWeisen wrote: »

So they should do the communion/confirmation because a: their friends are doing it and b: there's money involved? I'm not going to attack you over that as that thinking is the predominant reason so many children are made "Catholic" every year in Ireland. It's wrong though, utterly wrong.

Children up and down the country will celebrate Catholicism this coming Sunday and again on the 25th of December. Their parents will invariably go to midnight mass to observe a service to a god they don't believe in. What's the difference?

MyKeyG

bluewolf wrote: »

You're right. Every child in this country goes to a christian school, none of them are muslim or hindu or non-christian, and if they were they would all suffer crippling anxiety because they can't partake in this particular religious ritual.
ET schools don't exist, and "not wanting to be left out" is a perfect reason to do anything whatsoever

Your juvenile sarcasm notwithstanding, nonsense! Catholicism is still the number one faith for white Irish children. Take it from a white Irish person who was raised a different faith, people are less critical of Muslim, Hindu, Jewish children because their faith is associated with their race and it's more readily accepted when they don't participate in common religious practices, fact!

I have no idea what chocolate eggs have to do with anything

What an ironic statement. Thank you for proving my point.

WolfgangWeisen

They're celebrating chocolate and presents. For those children, these things, the very things they're excited about, have nothing to do with the religion being forced upon them by their parents.

WolfgangWeisen

MyKeyG wrote: »

Catholicism is still the number one label for white Irish children ... people are less critical of Muslim, Hindu, Jewish children because most Irish people haven't a clue what Catholicism involves, let alone all these 'weird foreigner' religions.

Fixed that up for you, MyKeyG.

MyKeyG

WolfgangWeisen wrote: »

They're celebrating chocolate and presents. For those children, these things, the very things they're excited about, have nothing to do with the religion being forced upon them by their parents.

Likewise with communion. In your view it represents celebration of a bullsh*t doctrine because you know better, to the child it's the new clothes, the limo and the cash.

Why can they be in it for the presents and the chocolate eggs and not the clothes, the limo and the cash? Simple question!

MyKeyG

WolfgangWeisen wrote: »

Fixed that up for you, MyKeyG.

Post reported WolfgangWeisen.

Oranage2

A&A as friendly as ever :pac:

Have to agree with MyKey G, and b318isp.

You dont seem overly non-religious so it would probably be best to let your children make their confirmation and communion, you dont want your kids to feel left out esp at that age when they dont really know the difference, it would be like not buying them presents at Christmas.

The reason I am irritated is that a lot of people are indoctrinating children into this particular religion and think any compromise involves continuation of it. Because if anyone wants out, they're just being mean to the kids, or trying to rebel, or being smug.

There are alternatives such as bringing them on holiday, buying them new clothes, making a fuss of them otherwise. No kid is going to feel "left out" if they went to disneyland instead.

Emotive arguments such as "it's just like not buying them presents" are ridiculous, in part because these winter festival rituals are not continuation and confirmation of them being in the faith. Ditto for easter eggs. You can go out and buy a chocolate egg for a child without it having any connection to the religion.

The bias is quite clear in all these "let them make up their own minds" posts when suggestions that the children make their bar/bat mitzvah, for example, are not made.
And so we end up with "all children are catholic, better make sure all future children are catholic so they dont feel left out" in some silly self-perpetuating, illogical argument. Unless you have decided to bring them up in some other faith, in which case the argument seems to fall by the wayside - nobody cares if they're different or left out then. Only for the people who either have no religion or want to bring up the children with no religion. We are presented with "if you're not entirely not-catholic sure why not be catholic for a while".
Religion is not a fashion accessory, and frankly I would imagine that practising members would have more concern about the spiritual meaning of introducing and confirming children in the faith than "don't let them feel left out" or "but they should get the money".
At least the priests themselves seem to be speaking out against it.
They are forcing parents and prospective communion/confirmation candidates to attend mass for a certain number of weeks, and they are speaking out against the non-religious aspect of it taking precedence, with the limos and fake tan and whathaveyou.

robindch

garysully1986 wrote: »

if I decide to have kids they will obviously do the whole religion thing in school [...] I don't want my kids to feel victimised because I dont have any beliefs

So, by allowing christians to indoctrinate your child, you're hoping that the same christians won't vitimize him/her? No offence, but that's a pretty shitty trade to make, I have to say. Adding a few euros to the trade does not improve how it looks.

garysully1986 wrote: »

Do you proceed with these ceremonies with your own children or will you in the future?

While there are circumstances that might make me allow my child to be indoctrinated, they're fairly unlikely.

My kid goes to an Educate Together school, so there's no pressure to do any religious jiggery-pokery. If the topic comes up, well, I'll blow the €500 euro average cost on something she'll enjoy, like a trip to Disney or a long ride on a hot air balloon, rather than something designed to aggrandize and legitimize an organization like the catholic church.

WolfgangWeisen

Ooh, find the single most expensive thing all the kids want but can't have and buy your child it under the guise of it being a treat for accepting that there is no such thing as God. Do it once or twice a year and we'll have a nation of atheists before you know it!

MyKeyG

bluewolf wrote: »

There are alternatives such as bringing them on holiday, buying them new clothes, making a fuss of them otherwise. No kid is going to feel "left out" if they went to disneyland instead.

Emotive arguments such as "it's just like not buying them presents" are ridiculous, in part because these winter festival rituals are not continuation and confirmation of them being in the faith. Ditto for easter eggs. You can go out and buy a chocolate egg for a child without it having any connection to the religion.

What you're not getting is that you and I see the difference but how do you explain to a child he or she is not getting the clothes, the limo and the cash when all their little buddies are? That's the context in which I make the comparison. All the child knows is that compared to the rest of the people in the class except the foreign kids because 'they're foreign' every body is getting all excited over a big day where they get new clothes, Daddy brings them to McDonalds and they get loads of cash. That's what the other poster means when he compares it to not getting a Christmas present. Try to look at it from the childs point of view instead of being blinded by your own disdain.

I knew exactly why my brother and I didn't partake in confirmation, we knew it was BS even at that age. It didn't mean we didn't feel left out. You can't blame the OP for not wanting to alienate their children.

MyKeyG

robindch wrote: »

So, by allowing christians to indoctrinate your child, you're hoping that the same christians won't vitimize him/her? No offence, but that's a pretty shitty trade to make, I have to say. Adding a few euros to the trade does not improve how it looks.While there are circumstances that might make me allow my child to be indoctrinated, they're fairly unlikely.

My kid goes to an Educate Together school, so there's no pressure to do any religious jiggery-pokery. If the topic comes up, well, I'll blow the €500 euro average cost on something she'll enjoy, like a trip to Disney or a long ride on a hot air balloon, rather than something designed to aggrandize and legitimize an organization like the catholic church.

What if your child breaks into tears and says 'but the rest of my class are doing it, and Mary got a lovely white dress etc etc...'?

MyKeyG

MyKeyG wrote: »

What you're not getting is that you and I see the difference but how do you explain to a child he or she is not getting the clothes, the limo and the cash when all their little buddies are?.

I just said you can give them those things without any need for the religion.
Maybe if you'd stop obsessing about "foreign kids" and read my post properly...

WolfgangWeisen

MyKeyG wrote: »

You can't blame the OP for not wanting to alienate their children.

The original poster doesn't have children. It was a hypothetical question founded on the ignorance of alternatives, which have now been presented and accepted. If I had my child christened and stuck in a catholic school, which I absolutely would not but for the sake of argument I did, then I would let them participate in the rituals if they so wished, for whatever their motive, as I would see the harm as already have been done.

However, in the presence of alternatives, I would ensure that I would not be faced by such qualms by simply putting my children in schools which did not emphasize such rituals and indeed single out or victimize those who chose to forego them - something I would certainly have no trouble believing happens in Catholic schools, all the way from the playground into the teachers coffee room.

robindch

MyKeyG wrote: »

What if your child breaks into tears and says 'but the rest of my class are doing it, and Mary got a lovely white dress etc etc...'?

It's unlikely, since I think she's more mature than that, but if she were going to a "catholic" school and it got to that kind of openly offensive stage, and in the possible case where the teachers were either doing nothing or were actively encouraging this kind of nonsense, then I'd probably be drop by and collect her from school on some dull morning when some priest is handing out sweeties to the kids and lecturing them on religion (as happened in her previous school), making sure to tell everybody that my kid's going to Disney while they continue to listen to the priest drone on.

Not that I'd like to do it, but only when the church or its representatives openly chooses to use whatever social and peer pressure it can in order to help it in its appalling business of indoctrinating impressionable, trusting kids.

Oranage2

But they're the OP's children and he should do what he thinks is right. Forcing your child not to believe in God is a silly game just like forcing them to believe in God. It's important kids arent left out at that age especially when they dont know any better, I'd say going into secondary school is a more vital age and might be a better age to look for a non religious school.


I can see where Robin and bluewolf are coming from -

it's not easy to bring your kids to an all together schools, and not everyone can afford a balloon trip/Disney world. Unless your dead set against religion then you'll have a tough time explaining why they're not doing it.

MyKeyG

Oranage2 wrote: »

I can see where Robin and bluewolf are coming from -

Me too it's called blind rage.

I hope they enjoy celebrating the birth of god in human form come December.

MyKeyG

bluewolf wrote: »

I just said you can give them those things without any need for the religion.
Maybe if you'd stop obsessing about "foreign kids" and read my post properly...

I can see how you would be easily confused.

Why don't you read my post instead of being a sarcastic so and so. Alternatives don't work. Society is invariably conformist. We see what someone else has we want some of that. None more so with children. Best of luck convincing your child they're not missing out know it all!

Oranage2

Oranage2 wrote: »

But they're the OP's children and he should do what he thinks is right. Forcing your child not to believe in God is a silly game just like forcing them to believe in God. It's important kids arent left out at that age especially when they dont know any better, I'd say going into secondary school is a more vital age and might be a better age to look for a non religious school.

He should do what he thinks is right unless it involves not going to a religious primary? You think every child should be indoctrinated by default into religion?

Your "left out" argument makes no sense if they go to an ET school where there is none of that nonsense.

it's not easy to bring your kids to an all together schools, and not everyone can afford a balloon trip/Disney world. Unless your dead set against religion then you'll have a tough time explaining why they're not doing it.

Who said anything about being dead set against religion? It's catholicism we are discussing in this thread. It is not the only religion in existence.

MyKeyG

We're talking about a symbolic showing of something that usually turns out to be a whole load of nothing. Sometimes people like you are worse than the religious zealots.

WolfgangWeisen

MyKeyG wrote: »

Me too it's called blind rage.

MyKeyG wrote:

I can see how you would be easily confused. It happens to those of lesser intellect quite often.

Yet you're the one to resort to petty insults?

Well, at least you accepted defeat in the least dignified way possible. Always amusing to see someone lose the argument and claim everyone else is the idiot.

Yourself and your sidekick Oranage seem to have missed one massive key point to this thread - the original poster does not have children. He raised the question as a hypothetical, yet for some reason both of you are working on the assumption that he is a parent with a child in a catholic school. It might be best for you to read what is posted thoroughly before trying to form a reply in future.

Oranage2

bluewolf wrote: »

He should do what he thinks is right unless it involves not going to a religious primary? You think every child should be indoctrinated by default into religion?

Your "left out" argument makes no sense if they go to an ET school where there is none of that nonsense.



Who said anything about being dead set against religion? It's catholicism we are discussing in this thread. It is not the only religion in existence.

Well Im not Catholic nor have I ever been so I know all about growing up non-Catholic in a Catholic society -

And all I'm saying is you shouldnt play stupid games with your kid's lives all because you dont believe in God and ET schools arent an option for everybody!

If you want to raise your kids non religous then you should make sure to send them to ET schools so they're not victimised, but if you're sending them to a Catholic school then I think should let them do the ceremonies.

WolfgangWeisen

Oranage2 wrote: »

And all I'm saying is you shouldnt play stupid games with your kid's lives all because you dont believe in God

Your child comes into the world without religion and without God, it is the parent that plays games by putting it into their lives and then actively discrediting the actual teachings the child learns in the religious institution they've been put in.

qrrgprgua

garysully1986 wrote: »

This is my first time posting in this forum,

I was thinking for the last few days, I have no religous beliefs anymore but in the future if I decide to have kids they will obviously do the whole religion thing in school but what happens in regards to communion and confirmation.

The same that happens to Muslims/Jews/Protestants.. Just opt out. School won't care and if your child understands you stance they won't bother.

Anyway its hypothetical as you say you have not kids. once you take deal with it accordingly..

Oranage2

WolfgangWeisen wrote: »

Yet you're the one to resort to petty insults?

Well, at least you accepted defeat in the least dignified way possible. Always amusing to see someone lose the argument and claim everyone else is the idiot.

Yourself and your sidekick Oranage seem to have missed one massive key point to this thread - the original poster does not have children. He raised the question as a hypothetical, yet for some reason both of you are working on the assumption that he is a parent with a child in a catholic school. It might be best for you to read what is posted thoroughly before trying to form a reply in future.

Well we're not sidekicks but I can understand his/her frustration. THere is always a staunch intolerance of anything religious in A&A, all I'm saying is there is an alternative viewpoint.

MyKeyG

WolfgangWeisen wrote: »

Yet you're the one to resort to petty insults?

Well, at least you accepted defeat in the least dignified way possible. Always amusing to see someone lose the argument and claim everyone else is the idiot.

Yourself and your sidekick Oranage seem to have missed one massive key point to this thread - the original poster does not have children. He raised the question as a hypothetical, yet for some reason both of you are working on the assumption that he is a parent with a child in a catholic school. It might be best for you to read what is posted thoroughly before trying to form a reply in future.

I'm sorry I didn't know we had to use the term 'hypothetically' at the start of every single sentence I merely took for granted that we all knew the original and therefore subsequent posts were based on hypothesis. Now that I know you need everything spoon fed to you I'll duly oblige from now on:rolleyes:

I accepted no defeat. I made a point regarding the fact that many who claim to abhor Catholicism and it's doctrines choose to embrace it at their convenience. You think the priests don't relish the fact that people celebrate Easter and Christmas?

MyKeyG

Oranage2 wrote: »

Well we're not sidekicks but I can understand his/her frustration. THere is always a staunch intolerance of anything religious in A&A, all I'm saying is there is an alternative viewpoint.

I agree. Atheism is becoming more intolerant and oppressive than religion it seems.

MagicMarker

Oranage2 wrote: »

But they're the OP's children and he should do what he thinks is right. Forcing your child not to believe in God is a silly game just like forcing them to believe in God. It's important kids arent left out at that age especially when they dont know any better, I'd say going into secondary school is a more vital age and might be a better age to look for a non religious school.

This is hilarious, forcing your children to believe or not believe in god is bad, but it's best to force them to believe, lol. You've really outdone yourself here.

Just to make it clear though, no one here is suggesting that we force children to believe anything, which is the whole point.

Oranage2

MyKeyG wrote: »

I agree. Atheism is becoming more intolerant and oppressive than religion it seems.

Well it certainly appears that way, though I imagine the internet brings the worst out of them surely they cant be that intolerant in real life. I'm actually quite shocked at bluewolf's first post, she's usually so level headed but she totality lost the head there.



Actually I remember seeing this ages ago and it really sums everything up

WolfgangWeisen

Oranage2 wrote: »

Well we're not sidekicks but I can understand his/her frustration. THere is always a staunch intolerance of anything religious in A&A, all I'm saying is there is an alternative viewpoint.

That "alternative viewpoint" isn't such an "alternative", it's the predominant driving force behind the indoctrination of children today.

MyKeyG wrote: »

I'm sorry I didn't know we had to use the term 'hypothetically' at the start of every single sentence I merely took for granted that we all knew the original and therefore subsequent posts were based on hypothesis. Now that I know you need everything spoon fed to you I'll duly oblige from now on:rolleyes:

I accepted no defeat. I made a point regarding the fact that many who claim to abhor Catholicism and it's doctrines choose to embrace it at their convenience. You think the priests don't relish the fact that people celebrate Easter and Christmas?

I'm sorry but it was abundantly clear that you were of the belief that the poster had children and weren't speaking from the hypothetical point of view yourself.

You resulted to petty insults and in doing so admitted defeat. When someone brings personal insults into a polite discussion or debate then they automatically lose.

So, bluewolf is apparently confused and of lesser intelligence and I "need everything spoon fed" to me, anything more, champ?

MagicMarker

MyKeyG wrote: »

I agree. Atheism is becoming more intolerant and oppressive than religion it seems.

Please, share with us all how atheism is becoming more intolerant and oppressive than religion?

WolfgangWeisen

Oranage2 wrote: »

Actually I remember seeing this ages ago and it really sums everything up

http://www.skepticmoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Militant.jpg?9d7bd4

You do realise that the picture you posted is slating/mocking religion and slapping the back of atheists, don't you?

Oranage2

MagicMarker wrote: »

Please, share with us all how atheism is becoming more intolerant and oppressive than religion?

Well have a look at communist Russia and China, forced atheism and look how well that turned out.

MyKeyG

WolfgangWeisen wrote: »

I'm sorry but it was abundantly clear that you were of the belief that the poster had children and weren't speaking from the hypothetical point of view yourself.

You resulted to petty insults and in doing so admitted defeat. When someone brings personal insults into a polite discussion or debate then they automatically lose.

No matter how much you say it we both know it's simply not true.

At least I'm not trying to call you a liar. Rookie mistake friend.

MyKeyG

MagicMarker wrote: »

This is hilarious, forcing your children to believe or not believe in god is bad, but it's best to force them to believe, lol. You've really outdone yourself here.

That's not what he said and you know it. Talk about twisting words to suit your argument, pathetic. Are you sure you're not a priest?

This all kicked off because bluewolf used the word stupid to describe the OP claiming they would allow their hypothetical children celebrate their hypothetical communion/confirmation so that they wouldn't hypothetically feel left left out. Hypothetically speaking of course.

WolfgangWeisen

The thread topic is about the catholic communion ritual, yet the two people arguing against those who are against the religious rituals have now resulted to petty personal insults and are now bringing up communism.

Well done guys, you're good for a chuckle if nothing else.

Oranage2

MyKeyG wrote: »

That's not what he said and you know it. Talk about twisting words to suit your argument, pathetic. Are you sure you're not a priest?

This all kicked off because bluewolf used the word stupid to describe the OP claiming they would allow their hypothetical children celebrate their hypothetical communion/confirmation so that they wouldn't hypothetically feel left left out. Hypothetically speaking of course.

Well I've a scale of A&A posters, some really clever ones at the top like Dades, Robinch, Galvasean and even Bluewolf though she really has let herself down on today's showing. I dont bother with magicmarker, he's right at the bottom.

qrrgprgua

WolfgangWeisen wrote: »

The thread topic is about the catholic communion ritual, yet the two people arguing against those who are against the religious rituals have now resulted to petty personal insults and are now bringing up communism.

Well done guys, you're good for a chuckle if nothing else.

They whole thread is hilarious.. As a believer I love this forum. Big bowl of pop-corn and I can kill time with what comes up here.

The OP does not even have kids.. They are thinking would might happen.. Sure the kid might just say lets go to disney land when the class is on communion ... probably leave the other kids jealous.

MyKeyG

WolfgangWeisen wrote: »

The thread topic is about communion, yet the two people arguing against those who are against the religious rituals have now resulted to petty personal insults and are now bringing up communism.

Well done guys, you're good for a chuckle if nothing else.

Says the poster who has nothing further to ad to the thread so he just keeps sending across digs while sitting in front of his computer chuckling to himself.

It's clear you have no idea what you're talking about. You see what you want to see because you're completely incapable of mounting an argument. I have nothing against people who don't like religious ritual. I just don't agree with those who pick and choose the doctrines they wish to follow while criticising the ones they don't.

Cue twisting of words and/or accusation of petty personal insult because incapable of challenging the opinion!

HemlockOption

Re OP's question, you do have choices. For our first child his Catholic baptism was more or less arranged by family. He went to a catholic primary school until a place became available in the local Protestant school. This happened at an early stage and meant that he (and we!) didn't have to go through the rituals. We had our daughter baptised in the nearby protestant Church so that she also could attend the same school. No Catholic rituals to go through - happy days!

Having said that - we do live in Dublin which does allow for more choice than say, rural areas.

MyKeyG

qrrgprgua wrote: »

They whole thread is hilarious.. As a believer I love this forum. Big bowl of pop-corn and I can kill time with what comes up here.

The OP does not even have kids.. They are thinking would might happen.. Sure the kid might just say lets go to disney land when the class is on communion ... probably leave the other kids jealous.

The whole thread is a discussion. Does something have to have realistic bearing to command serious discussion? You do get the concept of debate do you not?

qrrgprgua

MyKeyG wrote: »

The whole thread is a discussion. Does something have to have realistic bearing to command serious discussion? You do get the concept of debate do you not?

By all means discuss. I am a back seat passenger in all this.