HEC QF: Munster vs Ulster, Sun 8 April 1:45pm, pre/during/post match thread

thomond2006

Munster:
15 Felix Jones, 14 Denis Hurley, 13 Keith Earls, 12 Lifeimi Mafi, 11 Simon Zebo, 10 Ronan O'Gara, 9 Conor Murray,
8 James Coughlan, 7 Tommy O'Donnell, 6 Peter O'Mahony, 5 Paul O'Connell, 4 Donnacha Ryan, 3 BJ Botha, 2 Mike Sherry, 1 Wian du Preez.

Replacements: 16 Damien Varley, 17 Marcus Horan, 18 Stephen Archer, 19 Donncha O'Callaghan, 20 David Wallace, 21 Tomas O'Leary, 22 Ian Keatley, 23 Johne Murphy.

Ulster:
15 Stefan Terblanche, 14 Andrew Trimble, 13 Darren Cave, 12 Paddy Wallace, 11 Craig Gilroy, 10 Ian Humphreys, 9 Ruan Pienaar,
8 Pedrie Wannenburg, 7 Chris Henry, 6 Stephen Ferris, 5 Dan Tuohy, 4 Johann Muller (capt), 3 John Afoa, 2 Rory Best, 1 Tom Court.

Replacements: 16 Nigel Brady, 17 Paddy McAllister, 18 Adam Macklin, 19 Lewis Stevenson, 20 Willie Faloon, 21 Paul Marshall, 22 Nevin Spence, 23 Adam D'Arcy.

Date: Sunday, April 8
Kick-off: 13:45 BST
Venue: Thomond Park
Referee: Romain Poite (France)
Assistant referees: Jérôme Garces (France), Matthieu Raynal (France)

Ulster travel to Munster in what is their highest profile game for a long time. This will be the ultimate litmus test for a side that is looking to be recognised as an equal to Munster and Leinster. Thomond Park is the supreme fortress when it comes to quarter finals, Munster have never lost a quarter final in Limerick. Both sides have exceeded expectations this season, Munster had been labeled an aging side while Ulster's inconsistent early season form suggested a mediocre season was on the cards. Now both sides can realistically target a place in this year's final, with the caveat of a home semi-final to come.

This match could prove to be "the making" of Ulster, just as 2006 in Lansdowne Road was for Munster and 2009 in Croke Park for Leinster. The Ulster ticket allocation is sure to have been fully sold and around 6,000 Ulster fans will make their voices heard. If Ulster wish to prove themselves to all of European rugby, this is the time to stand up and be counted. Equally, Munster will wish to prove that they can evolve into a new look side but still retain a high standard. Over the last 12 months, Tony McGahan has been forced to rebuild the side with many stalwarts retiring or moving on. The likes of Murray, Zebo, Sherry and O'Mahony are at the heart of Munster's development.

Selections

Paul O'Connell and Conor Murray are back along with Ulster's Stephen Ferris.

Munster captain Paul O'Connell, Donnacha Ryan and Conor Murray all start having been injured since the Six Nations. Munster have also handed first Heineken Cup starts to Mike Sherry at hooker and Tommy O'Donnell at openside flanker. Denis Hurley starts on the wing having missed last week's game and Wian du Preez replaces Marcus Horan at loosehead prop.

After a week of "will he, won't he", the big news for Ulster is Stephen Ferris is fit to start at number 6, while Dan Tuohy comes in for Lewis Stevenson at lock.

Attacking the 10 channel

Both number 10s have well documented defensive frailties.

After their careers are over, neither Ronan O'Gara nor Ian Humphreys will be remembered for their defensive aptitudes. Both men bring huge positives in attack, O'Gara is a hugely experienced player whose ability to kick and control a game is immense while Humphreys is the ultimate flair player who can create moments of genius from nothing. Unfortunately they both tend to be exposed defensively, one can imagine Stephen Ferris wanting to run at O'Gara at the first opportunity. Both backrows will carry big responsiblity in shielding their flyhalves from danger. O'Gara would appear to be a braver tackler than Humphreys, Humphreys has a history of avoiding tackles, but bravery won't get you too far if the physical strength isn't there.

Romain Poite & The Scrum

BJ Botha, John Afoa and the man in the middle: Romain Poite.

Both Botha and Afoa have been a revelation scrummaging wise since signing for their respective provinces this season. Ireland's mauling in Twickenham showed that a strong advantage in the scrum can destabilise the opposition all over the park. Both tightheads are coming up against strong scrummaging looseheads and it should be a close contest. Referee Romain Poite tends to favour the side going forward in the scrum without necessarily being concerned if everything is legal. Both sides may employ a degree of gamemenship to appear the stronger scrum. From a neutral perspective, one can only hope for scrum resets to be few and far between.

Prediction:
Stephen Ferris is worth 7-10 points for Ulster and together their experienced backrow may have the edge over Munster's 6-8, where Coughlan will be required to provide leadership and go forward ball. Their 10-12 axis is in great form and will create scoring opportunities for their outside backs.

However Munster will be under massive pressure being at home and this tends to inspire them when it's a European place at stake. Paul O'Connell's leadership was sorely missed last weekend and his return, like Ferris, is worth a try to the side. Munster will look to Felix Jones to find some form and link up with Denis Hurley and Simon Zebo who have been in sparking form this season.

There is exciting personal battles all over the park and for the most part they cancel each other out. However Munster have invaluable experience in these situations and that could be the difference. Munster by a score.

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Munster and Ulster logos taken from www.therugbyforum.com Heineken Cup logo taken from http://www.ercrugby.com/

Player images taken from Planet Rugby & Sky Sports websites except, Stephen Ferris photo from http://www.independent.ie/

Team lineups, ref, date/times from here: http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_7653583,00.html

Everything else is my personal work.

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Ferris is not Human

Fishooks12

Ulster

Really hard to call but I'd wager that Munsters ability to play above themselves and home advantage should see us edge it

Judgement Day

Ulster

B J Botha MOTM.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Ulster

Interesting to note that the oft criticised Munster academy appears to me to have the most graduates starting at the weekend of the 3 provinces.

thomond2006

Ulster

ray jay

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Interesting to note that the oft criticised Munster academy appears to me to have the most graduates starting at the weekend of the 3 provinces.

You've got to admit that injuries are a major influence on that fact.

Hagz

Neil Francis

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Interesting to note that the oft criticised Munster academy appears to me to have the most graduates starting at the weekend of the 3 provinces.

Who are they? Am I right with this list?

2. Mike Sherry
4. Donnacha Ryan
6. Peter O'Mahony
7. Tommy O'Donnell
8. James Coughlan
9. Conor Murray
11. Simon Zebo
13. Keith Earls
14. Denis Hurley

wp_rathead

Neil Francis

great write up Thomond2006!

With Ferris back- I feel Ulster can breach fortress Thomond and

When you look at their backline with Cave, Trimble, Gilroy and Wallace it has been exciting this season.
Between this, the other HEC QF and The Masters- I'm gonna be slumped on the couch for next 3 days

Ulster

ian humphries was leicester tigers starting oh when munster lost there first hc game in thomond this is a big factor hes won there before in a big hc game and thats going to spread to the rest of the team.

i think a lot of this game is going to come down to how fit ferris, o connel, ryan and murray are id imagine some if not all of them where rushed back

Ulster

also very good write up thomond

Teferi

On the one hand I would love for Ulster to this and make a run for the final. On the other hand I really want a Munster V Leinster final...

I think Munster will edge it.

pappyodaniel

Delighted to see PO'C, Murray and D. Ryan back in the team.

Difficult one to call. On paper Ulster have the better side but I'm half confident the Thomond Park factor will inspire Munster to a hard fought win.

Teferi

Ulster

Teferi wrote: »

On the one hand I would love for Ulster to this and make a run for the final. On the other hand I really want a Munster V Leinster final...

I think Munster will edge it.

i dont know if munster get knocked out il be rooting for leinster or ulster but if leinster win there 3rd hc il never hear the end of it off the lads in work

jimbomalley

Neil Francis

Excellent write up sir :-).
I hear a position may be opening up with a certain irish broadsheet for a rugby correspondant, you should apply!! :-) :-D :-D

ormond lad

Ulster

Hagz wrote: »

Who are they? Am I right with this list?

2. Mike Sherry
4. Donnacha Ryan
6. Peter O'Mahony
7. Tommy O'Donnell
8. James Coughlan
9. Conor Murray
11. Simon Zebo
13. Keith Earls
14. Denis Hurley

Coughlan wasnt in academy. The rest were

Great write up thomond. Will be great game, raging i cant go. Hopefully We'll edge it by a score

Quint2010

Neil Francis

Great preview. This is the game of the weekend. I hope Munster win it but the head says Ulster. They are just playing that bit better at the moment.

darragh_haven

Neil Francis

I dont know what people are thinking.... Neil Francis has this one all wrapped up, no competition:p

armchaircoach

Neil Francis

Great write-up as usual Thomond

While Munster have access to a great outhalf in O'Gara, and if he plays well they will probably win, however as was highlighted by last weeks match, when he is having an off day munster don't seem to trust Keatley to come on and bring a "plan B".

Ulster on the otherhand will have the mercurial Humphries, he could be great or he could be Sh1te. But if he is they have the option of switching to the Marshall Pienaar axis instead.

So Munster need to get it right from the off, where Ulster have the advantage of being able to change how they want to go about things during the game, and this could be crucial.

Either way it promises to be a cracker of a game, and we're guaranteed an Irish province in the Semi's

PTH2009

Ulster

if Munster play like they did against Leinster last weekend than Munsters heineken cup journey will end. Ulster have no fear of munster and on there day can be quite a brillent team and cause a hugh upset in limerick.

Id go for a close game with Munster winning by a score.

As a munster fan i want to go to a semi in the aviva against a star studded Toulouse team or a low profile Edinburagh team.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Ulster

PTH2009 wrote: »

if Munster play like they did against Leinster last weekend than Munsters heineken cup journey will end. Ulster have no fear of munster and on there day can be quite a brillent team and cause a hugh upset in limerick.

Id go for a close game with Munster winning by a score.

As a munster fan i want to go to a semi in the aviva against a star studded Toulouse team or a low profile Edinburagh team.

...but an Ulster win would be bad for Irish rugby!

My name is Mud

Neil Francis

Kudos on the write up. Appreciated

[Jackass]

Neil Francis

Whilst it's impossible to imagine Munster losing imo, on paper it looks tight, I'd even go so far as to say that I think that Ulster team is slightly better, man for man. We'll see, but should be a good game.

Fireball07

Ulster

Can't wait.


Strong Munster team if they are all fit. Similarly for Ulster, no real surprises for either side. Should be a brilliant game.


Hope Munster do it, I predict them by a score.

jm08

armchaircoach wrote: »

Great write-up as usual Thomond

While Munster have access to a great outhalf in O'Gara, and if he plays well they will probably win, however as was highlighted by last weeks match, when he is having an off day munster don't seem to trust Keatley to come on and bring a "plan B".

I wouldn't write Keatley off - last week ogara was the captain and he hadn't played a full game in about 2 months so needed the gametime. Keatley got the Connacht match the week before. I wouldn't say there is much between Keatley & Humphreys tbh.

Big Nelly

Neil Francis

SHould be a good game

Looking forward to it, I have to go with heart and hope Ulster win!!

But if use head I would say Munster by a score if they can get O'Gara going.

buck65

Big Nelly wrote: »

SHould be a good game

Looking forward to it, I have to go with heart and hope Ulster win!!

But if use head I would say Munster by a score if they can get O'Gara going.

I reckon he'll go alright. If the lads pull up outside his house and blow the horn he'll find it hard to stay home.

Clegg

Neil Francis

Does anyone else mind if I do a head to head?

I'm a Leinsterman so I don't have any real bias.

Du Preez Court
Sherry Best
Botha Afoa
Ryan Muller
O'Connell Tuohy
O'Mahony Ferris
O'Donnell Henry
Coughlan Wannerberg
Murray Pienaar
O'Gara Humphreys
Zebo Gilroy
Mafi Wallace
Earls Cave
Hurley Trimble
Jones Terblanche

4 in advantage for Munster
7 in advantage for Ulster
4 even

Clegg

Ulster

Clegg wrote: »

Does anyone else mind if I do a head to head?

I'm a Leinsterman so I don't have any real bias.

Du Preez Court
Sherry Best
Botha Afoa
Ryan Muller
O'Connell Tuohy
O'Mahony Ferris
O'Donnell Henry
Coughlan Wannerberg
Murray Pienaar
O'Gara Humphreys
Zebo Gilroy
Mafi Wallace
Earls Cave
Hurley Trimble
Jones Terblanche

4 in advantage for Munster
7 in advantage for Ulster
4 even

far from it your probably the best for the job:)
id agree with you altho i think botha-afoa is pretty even and wallace over mafi is very harsh on mafi however i am biased so well see

Fireball07

Ulster

Clegg wrote: »

Does anyone else mind if I do a head to head?

I'm a Leinsterman so I don't have any real bias.

Du Preez Court
Sherry Best
Botha Afoa
Ryan Muller
O'Connell Tuohy
O'Mahony Ferris
O'Donnell Henry
Coughlan Wannerberg
Murray Pienaar
O'Gara Humphreys
Zebo Gilroy
Mafi Wallace
Earls Cave
Hurley Trimble
Jones Terblanche

4 in advantage for Munster
7 in advantage for Ulster
4 even

Seems fair enough. Afoa is probably slightly better than Botha, but it's very marginal. I'd probably call that even. But then others would say Cave is better than Earls... I think with Earls' current form that it's even.



But yeah fair enough. Looks like Ulster have a big advantage. I dunno if our back row will be able to live with theirs We're relying on a 35-year-old out-half to pull something out of the bag.

Hagz

Neil Francis

Ulster

id love to see straight match ups between zebo-gilroy and earls-cave but i think its going to come down to the packs o mahony and coughlan are very good players not quite up to the level of ferris and henry but i dont see them getting blown away by them either
iv not seen much of o donnell how do ye rate him?

this could be one of the games of the season for me nice tight smashmouth rugby cant wait

Clegg

Neil Francis

I forgot to mention in my head-to-head that I think the game will be very close. I think Ulster have the advantage but it will be a tight game.

Ulsters chances depend on how Humphreys plays. If he starts falling off tackles as he has a habit of doing, then Ulster will have to give him the hook and put Pienaar to 10 and Marshall to 9.

Blackheath

Ulster

It going to be a cracken match, so many good match ups so many lads with points to prove. Its tough to call but I'll go for Munster for the experiance they have.

wp_rathead

Neil Francis

I chose Ulster earlier.
They have better form. On paper, they have better team. They have Ferris.

..but this is Munster... In Thomond... In a HEC Quarter Final... Logic simply goes out the window

Big Nelly

Neil Francis

wprathead wrote: »

I chose Ulster earlier.
They have better form. On paper, they have better team. They have Ferris.

..but this is Munster... In Thomond... In a HEC Quarter Final... Logic simply goes out the window

It's not as bad as before when Munster where at there height, Harlequins outplayed them last year at Thomond. I could see Ulster doign the same but need Ferris firing on all cylinders

dougieruggie

Neil Francis

Hagz wrote: »

Who are they? Am I right with this list?

2. Mike Sherry
4. Donnacha Ryan
6. Peter O'Mahony
7. Tommy O'Donnell
8. James Coughlan
9. Conor Murray
11. Simon Zebo
13. Keith Earls
14. Denis Hurley

Well if your going to include Coughlan as an academy graduate at 31 then yes Munster's academy does have one more player than Leinster but it is not the most, Ulster are equal.

Leinster have the following starting Healy,McLaughlin,O'Brien,Heaslip,Sexton,Fitzgerald,Kearney,Jones (all under 31)

(Quality over quantity )

Ulster have: Gilroy,Cave,Best,Humphreys,Henry,Ferris,Touhy,Court,Trimble (all under 31)

edit: Coughlan wasn't in academy so Munster do not have the most academy graduates, Ulster do and Munster are tied with Leinster.

Deano7788

Ulster

dougieruggie wrote: »

Ulster have: Gilroy,Cave,Best,Humphreys,Henry,Ferris,Touhy,Court,Trimble (all under 31)

Court didn't come from the academy he came from Australia. And Tuohy came from England, where he played for Gloucester.

Eod100

Hi,

Came across someone on twitter looking to swap tickets for Sunday's game.

Their twitter account and message is the following..

"@dabarbarian: fatherinlaw in late stage of cancer has 2 #Munster tkts but are too high in stand needs to swap"

Can anyone help them out?

dougieruggie

Neil Francis

Deano7788 wrote: »

Court didn't come from the academy he came from Australia. And Tuohy came from England, where he played for Gloucester.

So Leinster and Munster equal, Ulster one short. Still a good return

donfers

dougieruggie wrote: »

So Leinster and Munster equal, Ulster one short. Still a good return

what about ross and reddan?

dougieruggie

Neil Francis

donfers wrote: »

what about ross and reddan?

Both are older than 31. If were going to include them we might as well include POC,BOD,Wallace,D'arcy,Cullen,ROG etc.

cgpg5

Neil Francis

Can't wait for this, would love to see an ulster victory and I think that they will do it. Ferris playing is a massive boost and I think if they can use the backline effectively they'll do great damage. Ulster by 5.

thomond2006

Ulster

Hagz wrote: »

What a huggable teddy bear!

Big Nelly

Neil Francis

Hagz wrote: »

You have to love him, was on Sky Sports last night, just a good person from what I can see. Animal on the pitch thou!!!

SomeFool

Ulster

Thumbs up all round!!

decisions

I'm torn on who to support, Munster have a better chance to go on and win it but Ulster winning would make it easier for Leinster to go on and win it.

CiaranMT

Ulster

Clegg wrote: »

Does anyone else mind if I do a head to head?

I'm a Leinsterman so I don't have any real bias.

Du Preez Court
Sherry Best
Botha Afoa
Ryan Muller
O'Connell Tuohy
O'Mahony Ferris
O'Donnell Henry
Coughlan Wannerberg
Murray Pienaar
O'Gara Humphreys
Zebo Gilroy
Mafi Wallace
Earls Cave
Hurley Trimble
Jones Terblanche

4 in advantage for Munster
7 in advantage for Ulster
4 even

Munster are far more than the sum of their parts, which makes any such comparison redundant. Added to that, we have POC back to lead us out in Thomond Park... I can see Munster winning this by 10+.

CiaranMT

Ulster

CiaranMT wrote: »

Munster are far more than the sum of their parts, which makes any such comparison redundant. Added to that, we have POC back to lead us out in Thomond Park... I can see Munster winning this by 10+.

wow 10+ is a gutsy call man:)

Benny Cake

Ulster

Leslie Magnificent Pita wrote: »

wow 10+ is a gutsy call man:)

Bookies would disagree, Munster -10 is 13/10...

CiaranMT

Ulster

Leslie Magnificent Pita wrote: »

wow 10+ is a gutsy call man:)

I'd be surprised if it were less tbh. Ulster would really have to play out of their skins to win.

You have to consider the massive, massive amount of experience that Munster have in these games.

Compare it to the relative dearth of experience Ulster have at this stage.

Then, you have to consider the respective benches. Only Marshall is likely to make an impact off the bench for Ulster, whereas Munster have two Lions in Wally and DOC, with Varley who is an absolute nugget in the loose and at the breakdown. TOL too, for all the derision he receives, is a good impact sub to have.

It's been said that Ferris is worth 7 points to Ulster, but nobody has mentioned POC's worth to the Munster team. The man is a colossus and it's been plain to see how his presence brings on the team for the last few years.

Then, you have to consider that it is Munster at home, in a packed Thomond Park in the HEC, where they've been at the top table for more than a decade.

I'm putting my neck out here now I know, but, I just can't look past anything other than a Munster win. And by that margin.