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Fake Railwayana Rogues Gallery

Judgement Day · 2012-04-05 23:04:12

I know we have touched on this before but I can't find the posts and perhaps, given the amount of it, it deserves a thread of its own. Just tonight I came across this beauty in an antiques auction up the country. Anybody even know what company the initials are supposed to stand for?

05-04-2012 11:04pm

#1

Judgement Day

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I know we have touched on this before but I can't find the posts and perhaps, given the amount of it, it deserves a thread of its own. Just tonight I came across this beauty in an antiques auction up the country. Anybody even know what company the initials are supposed to stand for?

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#2 06-04-2012 8:17am

steamengine

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There is a Belfast Hollywood and Bangor Railway mentioned in Tom Ferris's History of Irish railways.

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#3 06-04-2012 8:22am

corktina

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id loveto know who is making them. I could get one for "my" line!

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#4 06-04-2012 8:23am

Judgement Day

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Gosh, that must make the sign very valuable!

Here's the link to Ken Lennan's Fake Irish Railwayana page which is well worth checking out.

http://www.irishrailwayana.com/pa306.htm

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#5 06-04-2012 9:08am

Judgement Day

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From a couple of years ago.

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#6 10-04-2012 7:34am

dmcronin

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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/N-I-R-Railway-Cap-Badge-Lapel-Badge-Northern-Ireland-/140730564170?pt=UK_Collectables_Railwayana_RL&hash=item20c431fe4a

Seen B&CDR and RPSI ones in same format. Faketty Fake.

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#7 10-04-2012 7:38am

Judgement Day

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At least it's priced at repro price and 99p is just about what it's worth.

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#8 10-04-2012 7:52am

Louche Lad

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corktina wrote: »

id loveto know who is making them. I could get one for "my" line!

Could it be the boom in Irish theme pubs abroad 10-20 years ago has ended and so the manufacturers of the decorations in those have had to come up with a new market?

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#9 10-04-2012 9:13am

dmcronin

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Judgement Day wrote: »

From a couple of years ago.

Especially lame as they neglected to take GREAT SOUTHERN AND WESTERN RAILWAY ACT...etc out of it!

There's also a number of poor-ish timber signs, probably for the aforementioned pub market or garden features, usually advertising British railway and shipping companies being circulated. Cobh is a holy show of White Star/Titanic tat on shopfronts right now.

The long cast iron LNER gate sign pops up in fake form quite regularly.

You're usually safe buying enamel signage, very hard to fake the real thing convincingly in terms of material/weathering etc. there's a few tinny ones about, but dog easy to spot.

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#10 10-04-2012 7:11pm

Judgement Day

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Not a railway sign and most likely the genuine article but in such fine condition. This Grand Canal sign is included in Whyte's sale on Saturday 21st April.

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#11 14-04-2012 9:29pm

Judgement Day

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Another rather crude fake features in Ashgrove Antiques auction on the 17th April next. As far as I know the MGWR never had these GSWR style gate signs. Note the strangely bockety lettering and thickness of letters on the M and G. It's only estimated at €40 - €60 and that includes another sign. Buyer beware!

http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/ashgrove-auction-rooms/catalogue-id-2850136/lot-13994244

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#12 14-04-2012 9:40pm

L1011

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Doesn't even look like a G for the second letter.

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#13 16-04-2012 7:31am

dmcronin

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It IS a 'G', only upside-down and wrong way round! Jesus wept.

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#14 14-06-2012 8:09am

Judgement Day

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The latest fake to arrive on eBay. Note the fine sharp edges. Good lettering but a fake nonetheless. Some buyers appear to have been taken in by it though.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-ORIGINAL-IRISH-LONDONDERRY-LOUGH-SWILLY-CAST-IRON-RAILWAY-SIGN-/221045863130?pt=UK_Collectables_Railwayana_RL&hash=item33775c32da#ht_500wt_1202

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#15 18-06-2012 6:25pm

cbl593h

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From Ciaran Cooney's excellent site.

Is this the real Mc Coy ???

http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway%20Stations%20C/Cappagh/slides/Cappagh_20090718_006_CC_JA.html

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#16 18-06-2012 6:43pm

Judgement Day

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cbl593h wrote: »

From Ciaran Cooney's excellent site.

Is this the real Mc Coy ???

http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway%20Stations%20C/Cappagh/slides/Cappagh_20090718_006_CC_JA.html

Quite probably as there were quite a few Waterford, Dungarvan & Lismore Rly gate signs still in situ right into the 1980s.

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#17 18-06-2012 8:17pm

corktina

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i doubt it...its identical to the others except the initals isnt it?

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#18 18-06-2012 8:19pm

L1011

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corktina wrote: »

i doubt it...its identical to the others except the initals isnt it?

Well, the design was swiped/edited from a real design, from somewhere. Was it definitely the GSWR?

It looks a bit better 'weathered' than the others if it is a fake, but that can be arranged.

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#19 18-06-2012 8:23pm

Judgement Day

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My point being that there were plenty of WD&LR signs about the place until quite recently and they were identical to the GSWR gate signs except for the initials.

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#20 18-06-2012 9:47pm

dmcronin

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cbl593h wrote: »

From Ciaran Cooney's excellent site.

Is this the real Mc Coy ???

http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway%20Stations%20C/Cappagh/slides/Cappagh_20090718_006_CC_JA.html

FAKE. 'D' and 'L' are thinner than the ampersand (&) and the 'R'. These are common features of the many that appear at car boot sales. Plus 'R' seems to have an air bubble or some other deformity in it, a sh*te attempt at casting. Scrap value.

I have seen a few (real) rough wagon plates, poor castings and finish, letters ars*ways, different fonts, upside down and wrong way round etc., but signage meant for public consumption was (almost) always pretty neat.

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#21 18-06-2012 10:17pm

Eiretrains

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dmcronin wrote: »

FAKE. 'D' and 'L' are thinner than the ampersand (&) and the 'R'. Plus 'R' seems to have an air bubble or some other deformity in it, a sh*te attempt at casting. Scrap value.

I have seen a few (real) rough wagon plates, poor castings and finish, letters ars*ways, different fonts, upside down and wrong way round etc., but signage meant for public consumption was (almost) always pretty neat.

Yeah that one at me fooled alright, at least the company initials are a little more accurate to the line!

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#22 19-06-2012 6:43am

corktina

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Judgement Day wrote: »

My point being that there were plenty of WD&LR signs about the place until quite recently and they were identical to the GSWR gate signs except for the initials.

really? that sounds unlikely.:eek:

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#23 19-06-2012 6:46am

Judgement Day

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corktina wrote: »

really? that sounds unlikely.:eek:

Unlikely or not it's a fact not an anecdote.

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#24 19-06-2012 11:17am

corktina

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I dont doubt you...they must have got Inchicore to make them for them I guess

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#25 23-06-2012 9:40am

Richard

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Judgement Day wrote: »

The latest fake to arrive on eBay. Note the fine sharp edges. Good lettering but a fake nonetheless. Some buyers appear to have been taken in by it though.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-ORIGINAL-IRISH-LONDONDERRY-LOUGH-SWILLY-CAST-IRON-RAILWAY-SIGN-/221045863130?pt=UK_Collectables_Railwayana_RL&hash=item33775c32da#ht_500wt_1202

I think I'd be taken in too. How would they have made it so authentic? (although obviously not authentic enough)

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#26 23-06-2012 10:49am

dmcronin

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The Swilly is not known to have produced that pattern of sign. I doubt if they ever went to the expense of casting signage for every one of their crossing gates, being cash-strapped as they were. The usual type (fairly rare anyway) is a curt "L&LSR Trespassers Prosecuted" mounted bus-stop style atop a timber post or rail. The title lettering looks a wee bit gammy compared to the rest of the text IMO.

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#27 15-07-2012 7:18am

Judgement Day

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Below - another obvious fake which has turned up for sale next week in a certain Midlands Auction Room. To be fair it is only described as 'a vintage railway sign'. :rolleyes:

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#28 27-09-2012 2:52pm

gobnaitolunacy

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More fakes:

http://www.rareirishstuff.com/irish-notices/irish-notices/irish-forty-shilling-penalty-gate-sign-ireland.html

If you look carefully you can make out 'LNER' (not even a real LNER sign) and touted as 'Irish'. The seller is a known purveyor of repro-tat.

http://www.rareirishstuff.com/irish-notices/irish-notices/emerald-isle-express-irish-railway-sign-train-ireland.html

The Emerald Isle Express did have a BR alloy headboard, but this is a pure work of imagination

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#29 23-10-2012 10:42pm

Judgement Day

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Another very crude fake which comes up for sale at West of Ireland auction next month. Priced at €50/70 - well over 100 times its true worth.

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#30 24-10-2012 8:29am

gobnaitolunacy

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Another offender, has sh*te rubbed on it in a feeble attempt at making it look older.

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/collectibles/3935908

Fender appears to be the real thing, but overpriced at 180 and besides it's missing the top rail.

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/collectibles/3783323

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#31 07-12-2012 10:32am

gobnaitolunacy

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Chancer methinks.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRALEE-DINGLE-RAILWAY-SIGNAL-DETONATORS-COOL-STORAGE-TIN-BOX-VETERAN-SERIES-/190765293437?pt=UK_Collectables_Advertising_ET&hash=item2c6a7f5f7d

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#32 07-12-2012 10:36am

Judgement Day

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gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Chancer methinks.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRALEE-DINGLE-RAILWAY-SIGNAL-DETONATORS-COOL-STORAGE-TIN-BOX-VETERAN-SERIES-/190765293437?pt=UK_Collectables_Advertising_ET&hash=item2c6a7f5f7d

Worthless - surprising how the white lettering has remained unaffected by the rust.

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#33 02-03-2013 2:40pm

Judgement Day

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On Adverts.ie here: http://www.adverts.ie/other-antiques-collectables/old-railway-sign/2719749

Anybody care to guess the company name?

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#34 02-03-2013 3:32pm

gobnaitolunacy

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Newry, Warrenpoint & Rostrevor Rly.

Very inventive.

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#35 03-03-2013 12:37pm

Nibs05

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How do you know there fake, the reason I ask is I have a gnri sign that I recovered during construction works at my local station, it still has some blue and its cast iron. Hoping to sell it soon.

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#36 03-03-2013 1:24pm

Judgement Day

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Nibs05 wrote: »

How do you know there fake, the reason I ask is I have a gnri sign that I recovered during construction works at my local station, it still has some blue and its cast iron. Hoping to sell it soon.

Age wear is hard to fake - if you're considering selling your one, don't clean it up or repaint it. Even the fakes are cast iron, even cast brass in some cases, but few companies apart from the GSWR, GNR, and GSR had the standard gate notices as posted above.

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#37 03-03-2013 1:28pm

Nibs05

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Judgement Day wrote: »

Age wear is hard to fake - if you're considering selling your one, don't clean it up or repaint it. Even the fakes are cast iron, even cast brass in some cases, but few companies apart from the GSWR, GNR, and GSR had the standard gate notices as posted above.

I'll stick up a photo, been told the same by people in the know, not to do anything regarding painting

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#38 03-03-2013 1:48pm

Nibs05

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Gnri sign not touched

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#39 03-03-2013 9:40pm

gobnaitolunacy

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Nibs05 wrote: »

Gnri sign not touched

That's a very nice find, plus the (I) at the end of the header title is intact.
A lot of GNR signs had this ground or chiselled off when the Great Northern Railway (Ireland) became the Great Northern Railway Board.

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#40 03-03-2013 10:08pm

Judgement Day

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Nibs05 wrote: »

Gnri sign not touched

A rare bird - eBay is your best bet - a reserve of at least €100 as it's worth a good bit more. PM me if you like and I'll put you in touch with somebody who collects GNR stuff for a museum.

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#41 03-03-2013 10:31pm

Nibs05

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Judgement Day wrote: »

A rare bird - eBay is your best bet - a reserve of at least €100 as it's worth a good bit more. PM me if you like and I'll put you in touch with somebody who collects GNR stuff for a museum.

Cool I would like it to go to a new home where It can be displayed, it was buried in the ground for god knows how long, don't think it's been touched since the days of the gnri

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#42 04-03-2013 3:14pm

Losty Dublin

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Nibs05 wrote: »

Cool I would like it to go to a new home where It can be displayed, it was buried in the ground for god knows how long, don't think it's been touched since the days of the gnri

May I ask, where abouts did it come from? I'd be very tempted to get it myself only the common sense in me is saying no

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#43 04-03-2013 3:50pm

Nibs05

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Losty Dublin wrote: »

May I ask, where abouts did it come from? I'd be very tempted to get it myself only the common sense in me is saying no

Pm sent

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#44 05-09-2013 12:48pm

Judgement Day

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Another gem from a Dublin eBay seller - he claims after doing research that it's from the Great Northern & Western Railway....:D

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#45 05-09-2013 12:55pm

gobnaitolunacy

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The GN&WR did exist, as part of the MGWR.
The 'research' probably consisted of a minute consulting the gods of Google.

Would love to know who the hell is making all those making these things.

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#46 05-09-2013 2:42pm

corktina

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so would I...love to get a Kanturk and Newmarket Railway one

On "put your money where your mouth is " on the BBC the other day, a GWR signal box door sign sold for £140...looked awfully new to me....

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#47 05-09-2013 2:50pm

gobnaitolunacy

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corktina wrote: »

so would I...love to get a Kanturk and Newmarket Railway one

Why would you want a 'copy' of an item that, more than likely, never existed?

There's plenty cheap GSWR versions out there, mores the pity.

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#48 05-09-2013 2:53pm

corktina

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yeah, I have one :-) The K&NR existed as mush as the GNWR did if not more

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#49 05-09-2013 3:00pm

gobnaitolunacy

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corktina wrote: »

yeah, I have one :-) The K&NR existed as mush as the GNWR did if not more

Doubt if either manufactured their own branded hardware or cast their own signage. Maybe they just put up cheap wooden notices until takeover. In the off chance they did make anything more permanent, they'd be long gone.

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#50 05-09-2013 4:52pm

seagoebox

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Have a look at www.irishrailwayana.com
scroll down to "unclassified", section 5, "Fake Irish Railwayana".

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#51 05-09-2013 5:14pm

Judgement Day

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seagoebox wrote: »

Have a look at www.irishrailwayana.com
scroll down to "unclassified", section 5, "Fake Irish Railwayana".

Bit ahead of you http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77978454&postcount=4

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