Best Starter Bike

Stainless_Steel

Del2005 wrote: »

An R1 can be ridden at 50km/h in 5th gear and it can go over the national speed limit, a restricted bike can also exceed all our national limits.

It doesn't mater which bike your on, if you watch the vanishing point you'll be unlucky to crash.

I spent my childhood riding bikes off road. I completed, badly, in trials and rode around forests and mountains most weekends of my youth. Unfortunately I was a few months to young when the restriction came in so I refused to get a provisional and didn't ride a bike for over 10 years.

When I eventually got my A provisional I passed my test 1st time, after 1 lesson. This is the only licence I passed on 1st attempt and I have passed all categories. But I knew I wasn't safe on a (restricted) bike so I voluntarily paid for a full days lessons to make myself a better rider and bought Police Roadcraft. I'm still learning how to ride a bike, again, and know my limits and the days instruction is still paying off. I still need more instruction to improve my riding which I'll try and do in the summer.

Bike riding is a skill that has to be learned and the only safe way is with proper instruction. Once your learn how to ride safely it doesn't mater if your bike will do 100km/h or 300km/h as you will be riding for the road not the bike.

According to your logic I was safe once I'd passed my test on a 25kw bike with 1 lesson, I knew I wasn't capable of riding safely even thought I was according to the RSA. I know you now need 16 hours to ride which IMO isn't enough for a total novice, but is better than nothing.

I agree with the vast majority of your points. I just think a big sports bike requires experience to handle (experience NOT training). And not because of the power. I agree that a restricted bike can be dangerous. My point is that a sports bike is built for experienced riders.

CJhaughey

OP I'd look for a naked bike, you may not drop it but if you do the cost is likely to be limited, a fully faired bike can cost a lot of money to repair if you drop it.
Yamaha YBR 250 or Honda CBF 250 would both be great learners bikes and are easy to maintain as well.

Del2005

CJhaughey wrote: »

OP I'd look for a naked bike, you may not drop it but if you do the cost is likely to be limited, a fully faired bike can cost a lot of money to repair if you drop it.
Yamaha YBR 250 or Honda CBF 250 would both be great learners bikes and are easy to maintain as well.

Just buy crash bungs for any bike you buy and don't do like most people and wait till you've dropped it before you buy them.

Stainless_Steel

Del2005 wrote: »

Just buy crash bungs for any bike you buy and don't do like most people and wait till you've dropped it before you buy them.

+1! Guilty as charged!

ambasite

CB 125 -

http://motorcycles.honda.com.au/Naked/CB125E

Alkers

ambasite wrote: »

CB 125 -

http://motorcycles.honda.com.au/Naked/CB125E

I don't agree, may be great for the likes of the CBT but you'll be bored of it in 5 minutes, looks naff, probably very slow and you can't sit your A test on it so you'll have to rent or borrow another bike for that.

Del2005

Simona1986 wrote: »

I don't agree, may be great for the likes of the CBT but you'll be bored of it in 5 minutes, looks naff, probably very slow and you can't sit your A test on it so you'll have to rent or borrow another bike for that.

+1, not suitable for the test so you'd need to hire a bike for an A licence. Only thing it's good for is cheap insurance.

Motorist

Hi all,

I have zero experience and am doing my IBT in a few weeks. Was thinking of getting a Kawasaki Ninja 250, but from what I've read they struggle a bit at motorway speeds and dont feel the most steady. I've also read that most people get sick of them within just a couple of months and want to upgrade. I want a bike that will last me for a good two or three years. It also seems to be a pain with the carbs compared to digital fuel injected bikes that are available. Im finding the whole process of getting a licence very expensive with gear, IBT, tests and bike. Although a more powerful bike would be more expensive, I'd rather spend the money upfront and have the bike for when the 2 year restriction after the test is lifted.

Im not fully convinced about the arguments I've read about grabbing too much throttle on a more powerful bike, etc.

I was basically wondering is this whole advice of starting out on a 250cc bike is more geared toward young lads who cant keep the head and will just want to go at the bikes top speed I am nearly 30 and have 10 years driving experience. I drive a 1.3 litre car which I have kept for fuel economy. I have no inclination to get an adrenalin rush while driving. Do you still think it's dangerous to start out on something like a ninja er6? DO they perform okay for a learner when restricted? Or are there any similar bikes you would suggest that are in between ?

Many thanks.

Alkers

No problem at all starting off on a bigger bike that is restricted. You may find it a bit tough at the very very beginning and at slow speed with the weight of them but within a couple of hours you will be comfortable. I'd maybe do a first lesson on a school bike and then move onto whatever bike you are planning on using yourself.
If you're planning on keeping whatever you buy for a few years then a big bike that is restricted makes sense as once your two years is completed you can take off the restriction.
I would say to try and find a bike that is restricted via a restricted ECU rather than a throttle stop as the latter isn't much fun to drive (the equivalent of only being able to push the accelerator peddle 1/8th of the way down in a car).
Also, at your age it may be worth looking at when the new licencing system is coming into place as it may work out a quicker method for you to having a full unrestricted licence as I think there is a provision for direct entry.

Cuddlesworth

Simona1986 wrote: »

No problem at all starting off on a bigger bike that is restricted. You may find it a bit tough at the very very beginning and at slow speed with the weight of them but within a couple of hours you will be comfortable. I'd maybe do a first lesson on a school bike and then move onto whatever bike you are planning on using yourself.
If you're planning on keeping whatever you buy for a few years then a big bike that is restricted makes sense as once your two years is completed you can take off the restriction.
I would say to try and find a bike that is restricted via a restricted ECU rather than a throttle stop as the latter isn't much fun to drive (the equivalent of only being able to push the accelerator peddle 1/8th of the way down in a car).
Also, at your age it may be worth looking at when the new licencing system is coming into place as it may work out a quicker method for you to having a full unrestricted licence as I think there is a provision for direct entry.

I have a Er-6, it was restricted with a throttle stop. The engine produces plenty of low down power/torque and the bike is happy between 4k and 6k Revs. I didn't notice the power loss up to 110kph and even then its negligible. It would cruise at 150kph with the stop in. Since nobody here bought them, they are pretty cheap now for a good all round bike that's cheap to run and fun to drive.

Motorist

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I have a Er-6, it was restricted with a throttle stop. The engine produces plenty of low down power/torque and the bike is happy between 4k and 6k Revs. I didn't notice the power loss up to 110kph and even then its negligible. It would cruise at 150kph with the stop in. Since nobody here bought them, they are pretty cheap now for a good all round bike that's cheap to run and fun to drive.

Do you know why they weren't popular here ?

I was looking on a few different websites and called into a few shops, but there doesn't seem to be too many of them around though. They cost around 8k new.

Cuddlesworth

Motorist wrote: »

Do you know why they weren't popular here ?

I was looking on a few different websites and called into a few shops, but there doesn't seem to be too many of them around though. They cost around 8k new.

I don't know. They are really popular in England. I suppose its because bikeworld is the only Kwac dealer left in Ireland.

The new model is a pretty good bike. The early model(06-09) has a few known issues but nothing really major. Engine is rock solid.

Wossack

theyre a great bike

and used alot (with great sucess afaik) in the racing scene - races alongside sv650s

Alkers

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I have a Er-6, it was restricted with a throttle stop. The engine produces plenty of low down power/torque and the bike is happy between 4k and 6k Revs. I didn't notice the power loss up to 110kph and even then its negligible. It would cruise at 150kph with the stop in. Since nobody here bought them, they are pretty cheap now for a good all round bike that's cheap to run and fun to drive.

I've driven one also as my housemate used to have an er-6f which was restricted in this fashion (which I was insured on). I know the engine has lots of torque etc and they're a capable bike but I was referring to not liking the physical method of the twisting of the throttle being limited as opposed to not liking the Er-6. I'm sure you get used to it but I found it very annoying. I don't see how you can say you didn't notice the power loss below 110kph, put it in 2nd gear and open the throttle fully, now put the throttle stop back on and try it again, the difference will be huge.
As an aside he now has a Gsxr 600 which is restricted in the same fashion and it is a similar story (if not worse).

Motorist

Simona1986 wrote: »

I've driven one also as my housemate used to have an er-6f which was restricted in this fashion (which I was insured on). I know the engine has lots of torque etc and they're a capable bike but I was referring to not liking the physical method of the twisting of the throttle being limited as opposed to not liking the Er-6. I'm sure you get used to it but I found it very annoying. I don't see how you can say you didn't notice the power loss below 110kph, put it in 2nd gear and open the throttle fully, now put the throttle stop back on and try it again, the difference will be huge.
As an aside he now has a Gsxr 600 which is restricted in the same fashion and it is a similar story (if not worse).

Does ECU restriction just limit the bike to a certain speed as opposed to physically limiting the fuel/air mix? Is it harder to get done than the washer restriction ?

Wossack

those with ecu restriction generally come so from the factory

this means to get them de-restricted, you've got to get a new ecu (and locks, keys etc in the case of immobilisers), so eh, pretty expensive (1k+)

Throttle stop is fine, as is carb washer restriction. Most kwacks are restricted via stops, yams the same.

Wossack

Motorist wrote: »

Does ECU restriction just limit the bike to a certain speed as opposed to physically limiting the fuel/air mix? Is it harder to get done than the washer restriction ?

nah, theyre not speed limiters. I'd say they rev limiters to some degree, but no idea how they work - fuel/air as you say perhaps

Alkers

Motorist wrote: »

Does ECU restriction just limit the bike to a certain speed as opposed to physically limiting the fuel/air mix? Is it harder to get done than the washer restriction ?

It will be on injected bikes and it limits the amount of fuel being injected so it's at 33bhp. Doesn't limit speed but any bike @ 33bhp will top out around the 160km/h region.
It's a 30second job to swap out the ECU provided you have another one to put in. The price varies hugely depending on the bike, for the likes of a GSXR600 you can be looking at €500+ for the ECU where you can easily pick up a restricted SV 650 ECU second hand for €50. I haven't heard of having to swap out locks and keys when changing ECUs, maybe on the HISS bikes but it's not the case on the SV anyway. If you're buying second hand you should be able to find a bike with both ECUs included in the sale but if you're buying new talk to the dealer about it, I've heard of cases in the UK where the dealer will put a full power ECU into the bike once your two years are up at no extra charge but it could be different here.

Cuddlesworth

Simona1986 wrote: »

I've driven one also as my housemate used to have an er-6f which was restricted in this fashion (which I was insured on). I know the engine has lots of torque etc and they're a capable bike but I was referring to not liking the physical method of the twisting of the throttle being limited as opposed to not liking the Er-6. I'm sure you get used to it but I found it very annoying. I don't see how you can say you didn't notice the power loss below 110kph, put it in 2nd gear and open the throttle fully, now put the throttle stop back on and try it again, the difference will be huge.
As an aside he now has a Gsxr 600 which is restricted in the same fashion and it is a similar story (if not worse).

To each their own, I see where your coming from. I drove a 98 fireblade that was carb restricted and it felt gutless in comparison. So pointless twisting all the way back for next nothing. At least with the Er6 what available feels use able. I've never been on a restricted ECU bike, but I assume its the same power output with twice the travel.

As for 2nd gear and laying back on the throttle. Until you hit 6k revs there is no difference between them. I spent a month switching back and forth. The bike just pulls regardless, you drive it kinda like a diesel swapping gears low down and using the torque. Christ I could wheelie the bike restricted.

If I had to go through another two years restricted it would be a bike with a parallel twin or in a close second a Vtwin like the sv650.

Cuddlesworth

One last thing, Er6 insurance in Ireland is pretty cheap. Its a low risk bike in comparison to the direct competition.