Detox 'break' for Easter?

Rosy Posy

I've been on a liver cleansing diet for the last few weeks in an effort to shed the stone I put on while pregnant with my third baby. I have given up all refined sugar, meat (apart from fish), eggs (as of this week), caffeine and alcohol. The 'plan' is for eight weeks (cutting out wheat next week) but I am really looking at diet changes in the long term- trying to stick to this way of eating, including lots of fresh foods and juices but having the occasional cake, coffee, wine or meat, and to see it as a treat rather than a daily or weekly entitlement. The part that I'm finding hardest is saying no in social situations. I have been to a few kids birthday parties and barbecues and eaten nothing, which I feel is rude but luckily the hostesses were good friends and understood. I have still been cooking and baking normally for my family (averagely healthy family meals with meat about twice a week and vegan at least once a week, home baked bread and biscuits). My problem is that Easter is coming up and we have a lot of family traditions that centre around food. As the sole cook for the family I will be preparing all the usual fare. I wonder would it be so bad to take a break from the diet for one day, and enjoy, say, a buttered hot cross bun, a cup of hot chocolate, a boiled egg and a roast lamb dinner? The goal would be to savour a taste of these things rather than to loose the head and lock myself in a cupboard with the kids' Easter eggs (I'm picturing the scene in chocolat where the stiff mayor passes out in a sugar coma in the window of the sweet shop as being what to avoid...). How bad would this be for me physically- both in terms of weight loss and for my stomach which has grown unaccustomed to rich foods? Should I just suck it up and stick to my carrot juice and salad?

Stench Blossoms

Have you read the stickies?

I don't agree with what you said here:

but having the occasional cake, coffee, wine or meat, and to see it as a treat rather than a daily or weekly entitlement

There is nothing wrong with meat. Meat is good. It's a source of protein and eating it (combined with fats) will help you feel fuller for longer.

I don't agree with cleansing diets. They teach you nothing and are just a 'quick fix'.

Healthy eating is a lifestyle change. Not a diet.

syklops

Why would you give up eggs??

While I agree that meat is great for you, it can be given up and substituted with fish, but eggs. Its protein in an easy to open can.

The part that I'm finding hardest is saying no in social situations. I have been to a few kids birthday parties and barbecues and eaten nothing

Next time, why dont you bring something, and eat that. At least you will be contributing something, and wont seem stuck up to other guests.

Rosy Posy

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

Healthy eating is a lifestyle change. Not a diet.

That's exactly what I felt but I wanted to kick start the process with the cleanse. I've been following Dr Sandra Cabot's Liver Cleanse http://www.liverdoctor.com/ because its safe for breastfeeding. Some other mothers I know have had a lot of success with it and are feeling and looking great so I thought I'd give it a try.

I don't think that meat is evil or fattening, I'm just following the plan. I was a vegetarian before I had kids but started eating meat when pregnant. We don't eat meat at home that often because we only eat good quality organic meat and that stuff is expensive. Also I have a good stock of vegetarian recipes that we all enjoy.

The other reason I tried a diet was that I felt like I had a pretty good diet already but am still overweight. There is a big emphasis on fresh juices, raw fruits and vegetables, whole grains and diverse protein sources, and these are things that I will definitely carry on past the limits of the diet. Also I have realised that I have not been drinking enough water.

I also intend to go back to eating eggs when the eight weeks are up- we have our own chickens so it'd be madness not to.

The biggest thing is cutting out sugar and cheese which are two of my vices. I thought it would be really hard but having done it for a couple of weeks I can honestly see how I could drastically limit these in my day to day life and keep them as special occasion treats.

Stench Blossoms

Have you read the stickies?

Rosy Posy

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

Have you read the stickies?

I read the charter....

...haven't quite managed to get through eight pages of Nutrition 101

Could you point me in the right direction?

If you were referring to the stuff about crash dieting in the charter, this is definitely NOT a crash diet. There is no limitation on portion sizes, a big emphasis on whole grains and protein from fish, nuts, seeds, beans and legumes. I know that the perception of detox diets are crazy all juice fasts but its nothing like that. Its pretty mild and is suitable for breastfeeding. I've been doing it for two weeks and have enough energy to go on hikes and do aerobic work outs.

Stench Blossoms

This is a good starting point

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=54097565&postcount=3

The fact that what your doing is even called detox would send alarm bells ringing to me. Do you think you could honestly say you could eat like that for the rest of your life? If that's not the purpose of it, and your only suppose to do it for a few weeks well then I'm sorry to say but in my books that comes under the heading 'crash diet'.

Something else I'd reccomend you read into (or listen to) is fat2fit radio podcasts. Their look on it is to eat like the skinny person you want to be.

--Kaiser--

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

Healthy eating is a lifestyle change. Not a diet.

+1
Detox diets are nonsense. Change your diet for good, not just for a few weeks (and I don't mean by giving up meat or eggs, rather give up grains, vegetable oil and refined sugar)

Rosy Posy

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

This is a good starting point

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=54097565&postcount=3

The fact that what your doing is even called detox would send alarm bells ringing to me. Do you think you could honestly say you could eat like that for the rest of your life? If that's not the purpose of it, and your only suppose to do it for a few weeks well then I'm sorry to say but in my books that comes under the heading 'crash diet'.

Something else I'd reccomend you read into (or listen to) is fat2fit radio podcasts. Their look on it is to eat like the skinny person you want to be.

My problem is that I already eat like this and I'm still overweight. I know the pregnancy had a lot to do with that. But, honestly, I eat practically no processed food, avoid white sugar like poison, eat mostly organic fresh local produce, heaps of diverse protein and good fats and make nearly everything from scratch. I always get at least 5 fruits and veg a day, although with the diet (she actually calls it a 'cleanse' not a detox) I have been getting more veg in with juices. I suppose the biggest things that were pushing me over were baked goods (breads and cakes and biscuits and pizza) and dairy, especially butter and cheese. I do an hour's aerobic exercise 2-3 times a week and a long hill walk with the baby in the backpack once a week, and with three small kids this is the absolute most I can manage. I just can't seem to shift the weight- its driving me crazy. That's why I thought a more drastic solution was needed, especially when seeing the results that my friend had gotten (although to be fair she was obese when she started and although she has lost a lot is still very overweight).

As far as the sustainability goes, I think that I could live like this mostly with occasional treats or 'cheats', if it meant that I could maintain a healthy weight I would be happy to do so. I would definitely add back in meat a few times a week and eggs on a regular basis but would curtail dairy and sugar and bread I suppose.

A lot of people suggest cutting grains- does that mean across the board or more like refined grains and gluten containing grains. I was under the impression that stuff like quinoa and millet and rice were really good for you?

Stench Blossoms

Quinoa is a seed not a grain.

If your not losing weight on a diet of no processed foods well then it ulimately comes down to calories in v calories out.

Have you read the stickies and worked out how many caloires you should be consuming?

syklops

Rosy Posy wrote: »

My problem is that I already eat like this and I'm still overweight. I know the pregnancy had a lot to do with that. But, honestly, I eat practically no processed food, avoid white sugar like poison, eat mostly organic fresh local produce, heaps of diverse protein and good fats and make nearly everything from scratch. I always get at least 5 fruits and veg a day, although with the diet (she actually calls it a 'cleanse' not a detox) I have been getting more veg in with juices.

I'm by no means an expert, but I reckon if you are drinking alot of juice, then you are getting a lot of extra calories from that. How much juice are you drinking in a day? One glass of Orange juice has about 100 calories. If you are losing nothing weight wise, replacing 3 glasses of orange juice with water instead could create the deficit you need to lose again.

A lot of people suggest cutting grains- does that mean across the board or more like refined grains and gluten containing grains. I was under the impression that stuff like quinoa and millet and rice were really good for you?

You seem to be confusing "good for you", "nutricious" and "calorific". Rice, millet and quinoa etc, are all good for you and nutritious. They therefore contain calories. If you cut grains, then it will be one less source of calories for you, and therefore might reduce your calorie intake.

--Kaiser--

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

Quinoa is a seed not a grain.

If your not losing weight on a diet of no processed foods well then it ulimately comes down to calories in v calories out.

Have you read the stickies and worked out how many caloires you should be consuming?

Weight loss isn't as simple as calories in = calories out. If you reduce the level of carbs you will have less of an insulin response, this is especially important if you are insulin resistant (as many people with weight problems are).

OP, fruit juice has lots of sucrose and fructose in it, eschew it entirely and replace it with fresh fruit. I'd also kick the grains, they're full of carbs and anti-nutrients and they displace healthier foods in your diet.

Stench Blossoms

I know its not as simple as calories in v calories . But in saying that, having a rough idea of how many calories she needs to consume a day and knowing how many calories she is actually consuming I think would benefit her.

I previously drank quite a lot of smoothies (home made) thinking they were low in calories etc. As soon as I cut them out the weight started coming off.

Gummy Panda

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Weight loss isn't as simple as calories in = calories out.

It is for most people?

--Kaiser--

Gummy Panda wrote: »

It is for most people?

No, the human body is not that simple. Different foods get metabolised different ways. Carbohydrates lead to a surge in blood sugar, necessitating a spike in insulin production leading to fat storage etc.. (simplification). Someone who is already overweight is likely to be insuling resistant, meaning more insulin will have to be produced to have the same effect.

Do you think someone eating 3,000 calories in the form of bread, potatoes, soft drinks and beer is going to put on the same amount of weight as someone who eats 3,000 calories of meat, eggs and vegetables?

Gummy Panda

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

No, the human body is not that simple. Different foods get metabolised different ways. Carbohydrates lead to a surge in blood sugar, necessitating a spike in insulin production leading to fat storage etc.. (simplification). Someone who is already overweight is likely to be insuling resistant, meaning more insulin will have to be produced to have the same effect.

Do you think someone eating 3,000 calories in the form of bread, potatoes, soft drinks and beer is going to put on the same amount of weight as someone who eats 3,000 calories of meat, eggs and vegetables?

Who told you everyone that is overweight is likely to be insulin resistant? have they actually been tested?

--Kaiser--

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Who told you everyone that is overweight is likely to be insulin resistant? have they actually been tested?

The link between obesity and insulin resistance is fairly well established

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v444/n7121/abs/nature05482.html

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/08/110802125551.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19254572

boomtown84

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Do you think someone eating 3,000 calories in the form of bread, potatoes, soft drinks and beer is going to put on the same amount of weight as someone who eats 3,000 calories of meat, eggs and vegetables?

Do you think not? If so why and how much difference you think you'd see? For arguments sake lets take 2,500cals being maintenance for both.

Gummy Panda

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Who told you everyone that is overweight is likely to be insulin resistant? have they actually been tested?

The link between obesity and insulin resistance is fairly well established

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v444/n7121/abs/nature05482.html

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/08/110802125551.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19254572

But we're talking about the average joe who is overweight. Weight gain does not mean insulin resistance. Even obesity doesn't, it's just highly likely it will develop the longer you stay obese e.g. Consume excessive amounts of calories, not just carbs.

There is too much of this insulin resistance nonsense from the paleo/low carb community cause they read in a book abdominal fat gain is a sign. If people think they're resistance then they should get a blood glucose test. Most will be below 7 mmol/L. Even I fell for that nonsense and when I got tested and had 5.5 mmol/L.

For the average overweight joe, reducing calories is effective if they can be pro-active about monitoring it.

--Kaiser--

boomtown84 wrote: »

Do you think not? If so why and how much difference you think you'd see? For arguments sake lets take 2,500cals being maintenance for both.

No, of course not. To think that calories in = calories out and to ignore all other factors shows simple-mindedness and ignorance of the body's metabolism of food

boomtown84

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

No, of course not. To think that calories in = calories out and to ignore all other factors shows simple-mindedness and ignorance of the body's metabolism of food

What difference in fat gain do you you think you'd see then?

confusedgirl

Make sure you have 5 portions of fruit and veg a day. Get 1-2 portions of fruit and 3-4 portions of veg a day. I would say have at least one green veg at lunch and dinner (lunch: spinach, dinner: broccoli etc). I posted some good ways to get veg into your diet under the "vegetables and soup" thread.

Learn what a portion size is. 30g porridge/rice/pasta (any grain really) is a portion. 30g rice/pasta isn't a lot as most people probably would use 60-75g but that's way too much. Have your rice/pasta with a lean protein like chicken/fish and lots of veggies to bulk it out. Half a baked potato/2 new potatoes is a portion. 3tbsp beans/half a tin of beans is a portion. 1 ryvita/oatcake/ricecake is a portion. Half a pitta bread/bagel/scone is a portion (don't eat bagels and scones every day though, they're more for just once in a while really, if at all.) If you want to stick with no grains, that's cool but it's good to know what a portion size of these things actually is anyways.

Use tomato based sauces instead of creamy ones. Don't eat creamy soups-make your own soup from scratch with veg, low sodium stock cubes/fresh stock if you have time and herbs. I would avoid dried fruit like raisins too-too sugary and its so easy to eat a load of them.

I would agree with other people saying not to drink fruit juice. Don't drink your calories-stick to water. If you drink a lot of tea/coffee, cut down and make sure you're putting skimmed milk into them, not full fat milk.

Drink 2-3 litres of water and have no snacks in between meals. You may be snacking because you think you're hungry but a lot of the time, you're just thirsty.
For polyunsaturated fats, 1-2 tsp oil is a portion, 1tbsp seeds is a portion and 5 nuts is a portion.

You seem to have a sweet tooth so put some cinnamon in porridge to sweeten it, add some berries in. Sweet fruit like pink lady apples is a good idea and also sweet vegetables like sweetcorn, beetroot, carrot. (not a ton of these sweet fruit and vegetables each day but just enough to satisfy your sweet tooth).

Have a treat once a week, as in a "cheat meal" or 1 small glass of wine (half fill a wine glass) or 1-2 squares of dark chocolate (at least 70% cocoa) or some nice cheese (not too much though!) or 1 coors light/bud light.

I think you need to get away from that "all or nothing" mindset of detox diet (as in cutting out a lot of food groups) and think more along the lines of moderation (as in portion control, having a treat/cheat meal once a week, sitting down and enjoying your food with your family, eating your food slowly away from the tv/phone/newspaper etc).

Rosy Posy

Thanks for the replies. I'm a novice but I definitely think that I am consuming too many calories. I put it to my husband (who is a healthcare professional) and he agreed that my portion sizes are too big, so I will make efforts to cut this down. I find that I get much more hungry when breastfeeding which is why I had been trying to eat more fresh fruits and veg and raw nuts but obviously it all adds up.

As for juice, I use a juicer so make a fresh glass of carrot and celery juice at breakfast time and usually have one to two carrot and beetroot juices during the day. Is this too much? I find its a good substitute for the sugary stuff that I was using as an afternoon pick me up (I'm also getting fcuk all sleep thanks to the baby). I'm also drinking lots of water with apple cider vinegar and taking psyllium husks (soluble fibre).

I'd be interested to find out more about insulin resistance, I've never heard of this before but I have a strong family history of type two diabetes. This is one of the main reasons that I am avoiding sugar and trying to attain a normal weight.

--Kaiser--

Rosy Posy wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. I'm a novice but I definitely think that I am consuming too many calories. I put it to my husband (who is a healthcare professional) and he agreed that my portion sizes are too big, so I will make efforts to cut this down. I find that I get much more hungry when breastfeeding which is why I had been trying to eat more fresh fruits and veg and raw nuts but obviously it all adds up.

As for juice, I use a juicer so make a fresh glass of carrot and celery juice at breakfast time and usually have one to two carrot and beetroot juices during the day. Is this too much? I find its a good substitute for the sugary stuff that I was using as an afternoon pick me up (I'm also getting fcuk all sleep thanks to the baby). I'm also drinking lots of water with apple cider vinegar and taking psyllium husks (soluble fibre).

I'd be interested to find out more about insulin resistance, I've never heard of this before but I have a strong family history of type two diabetes. This is one of the main reasons that I am avoiding sugar and trying to attain a normal weight.

Carrot juice has quite a lot of sugar in it. The problem with juicing is that you are taking out all the good fibre in the fruits/vegetables and eating the equivalent of 10 carrots (guess) in a glass.

If you have a family history of type 2 diabetes it does sound as if there could be an insulin resistance problem there. Don't forget that all carbs (including bread, potatoes, carrots....) break down into sugar, neccessitating an insulin response

confusedgirl

I forgot to mention the portion sizes for protein and veg.

For protein, one deck of cards is a portion so 1 chicken fillet, 1 cod fillet, 1 small tin of tuna, 1 egg is a portion (you get the idea I'm sure).

For vegetables, 80g vegetables is a portion-5tbsp. When I use an onion in a recipe, I use a quarter per person, a quarter of a pepper per person, a few slices of cucumber is fine, a handful of chopped celery is fine etc. For each vegetable, you're aiming for about a handful as a portion-that's a rough guide. A portion of lettuce/spinach (any kind of leave in a salad really) is about a cereal bowl. I generally measure the portion sizes with an actual tablespoon (15g is 1tbsp so 30g is 2tbsp, 42g is 3tbsp, 75g is 5tbsp) but you can use a kitchen scale to measure your portions either if you like. I find the tablespoon a lot handier than the kitchen scales but it's really a personal choice for each person to make.

Most people do tend to overeat carbohydrates like the rice etc more than protein or vegetables though.

I would advise you to put your food on a smaller plate as this is a really easy way to reduce portions. Another tip is to eat half the food on your plate or at least leave some food behind. A lot of people are brought up being told to eat everything on their plate as children and then they continue this when they're adults. But really, you should stop eating when you're satisfied. If you find yourself putting your fork down during the meal, then stop for a second as this is usually a cue that you're getting full. If you want to eat more, then eat more but just pause for a second to see whether you're still hungry.

If you want a snack in the afternoon, then a good snack would be an apple and 5 almonds. If you really want juice in your diet, then limit it one at breakfast although no juice is preferential tbh! You have a new baby so making all the juices on top of that sounds like a lot of hassle to me whereas the apple and 5 almonds are handy, you don't need to do anything with them aside from wash the apple. Another time saving tip is to get bags of salad (florette do nice ones) as part of your lunches and frozen vegetables for your dinner.

I don't think the apple cider vinegar will do a lot tbh-I know detox diets say it "cleanses your system" out but I've tried it before and I never noticed any difference. The main thing is to have your 2-3 litres of water a day. 3 litres is a lot so if you're getting 1.5-2litres initially, then that's fine.

Rosy Posy

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Carrot juice has quite a lot of sugar in it. The problem with juicing is that you are taking out all the good fibre in the fruits/vegetables and eating the equivalent of 10 carrots (guess) in a glass.

If you have a family history of type 2 diabetes it does sound as if there could be an insulin resistance problem there. Don't forget that all carbs (including bread, potatoes, carrots....) break down into sugar, neccessitating an insulin response

Talked it over with my OH and he confirmed that I'm NOT insulin resistant (based on blood sugar levels) but that as long as my BMI is above 25 I am at risk of becoming insulin resistant, especially with family history, hence the cutting of sugars. I had a sneaking suspicion that the carrot juice was full of sugar as it was helping me over the sweet cravings. I will attempt to cut down and substitute the afternoon juice for fruit and nuts.

Rosy Posy

confusedgirl wrote: »

I forgot to mention the portion sizes for protein and veg.

For protein, one deck of cards is a portion so 1 chicken fillet, 1 cod fillet, 1 small tin of tuna, 1 egg is a portion (you get the idea I'm sure).

For vegetables, 80g vegetables is a portion-5tbsp. When I use an onion in a recipe, I use a quarter per person, a quarter of a pepper per person, a few slices of cucumber is fine, a handful of chopped celery is fine etc. For each vegetable, you're aiming for about a handful as a portion-that's a rough guide. A portion of lettuce/spinach (any kind of leave in a salad really) is about a cereal bowl. I generally measure the portion sizes with an actual tablespoon (15g is 1tbsp so 30g is 2tbsp, 42g is 3tbsp, 75g is 5tbsp) but you can use a kitchen scale to measure your portions either if you like. I find the tablespoon a lot handier than the kitchen scales but it's really a personal choice for each person to make.

Most people do tend to overeat carbohydrates like the rice etc more than protein or vegetables though.

I would advise you to put your food on a smaller plate as this is a really easy way to reduce portions. Another tip is to eat half the food on your plate or at least leave some food behind. A lot of people are brought up being told to eat everything on their plate as children and then they continue this when they're adults. But really, you should stop eating when you're satisfied. If you find yourself putting your fork down during the meal, then stop for a second as this is usually a cue that you're getting full. If you want to eat more, then eat more but just pause for a second to see whether you're still hungry.

If you want a snack in the afternoon, then a good snack would be an apple and 5 almonds. If you really want juice in your diet, then limit it one at breakfast although no juice is preferential tbh! You have a new baby so making all the juices on top of that sounds like a lot of hassle to me whereas the apple and 5 almonds are handy, you don't need to do anything with them aside from wash the apple. Another time saving tip is to get bags of salad (florette do nice ones) as part of your lunches and frozen vegetables for your dinner.

I don't think the apple cider vinegar will do a lot tbh-I know detox diets say it "cleanses your system" out but I've tried it before and I never noticed any difference. The main thing is to have your 2-3 litres of water a day. 3 litres is a lot so if you're getting 1.5-2litres initially, then that's fine.

These portions seem ridiculously small!! I didn't think it was possible to eat just 5 almonds- I would usually have about 75-100g as a snack. I will do my best. We have salad in the garden (pick a leaf at a time- can't get more handy than that!) and get all our veg from a local organic farm, and making everything from scratch is pretty labour intensive alright but I am used to it and I always get a wide variety of seasonal veg. Have been upping the water since starting the cleanse and that's made a big difference. Apparently if you drink water with vinegar before you eat it shrinks your stomach so you don't eat as much?

Thanks for taking the time to set out all the portion stuff so clearly!

meijin

Rosy Posy wrote: »

These portions seem ridiculously small!!

They are! Especially for veggies.

I didn't think it was possible to eat just 5 almonds- I would usually have about 75-100g as a snack.

5 is just for a taste... but 100g of just almonds or other nuts might be too much at once... I limit myself to 50g (+ few other things on top of that), but you need to keep it relative to your body weight and activity level.

But for veggies (non-starchy!), I consider 200g a portion Don't think you can really overeat on veggies.
I usually have 1 whole onion + 2 tomatoes with my 4 scrambled eggs