The Pope's chair

GarIT

Going off a rough estimation the Pope could sell his chair and feed 80,000 African children for 10 years. Given that the bible says that you should sell your possessions and give to the poor why doesn't he?

joseph brand

GarIT wrote: »

Going off a rough estimation the Pope could sell his chair and feed 80,000 African children for 10 years. Given that the bible says that you should sell your possessions and give to the poor why doesn't he?

He loves that chair! He'd fight you for it.


Seriously though. Feeding Africans isn't really as important as 'spreading the message' (increasing followers) or bringing in cash. Followers = £££££'s

How much is the chair worth (with a source)?

GarIT

I remember reading it was €100 million, it must have been a decent source or else I would have just dismissed it, but I have no source. Even if it was €10 million he could still save 8,000 lives with it.

GarIT

I just found out that in a 1994 audit the church had 410 billion in
cash, 479 billion in stocks and bonds, 29 billion in gold, and 470
billion in fixed assets - investments and real-estate thats in lira, but the catholic church could do a lot of work if it wanted to put its own money into charity.

Sarky

I heard it has a magical sweet dispenser that only ever gives you red and purple Starbursts.

General Relativity

GarIT wrote: »

I just found out that in a 1994 audit the church had 410 billion in
cash, 479 billion in stocks and bonds, 29 billion in gold, and 470
billion in fixed assets - investments and real-estate thats in lira, but the catholic church could do a lot of work if it wanted to put its own money into charity.

That makes me want to vomit considering I got an envlope for my "parish dues" the other day. Outrageous. :mad:

GarIT

General Relativity wrote: »

That makes me want to vomit considering I got an envlope for my "parish dues" the other day. Outrageous. :mad:

With the translation into euros you can half the money in lira and its about right, I just noticed with inflation you can multiply the value of the gold and the fixed assets by 8 to get its modern day value.

I read an article where the church moaned that they made a loss of €13,500,000 in 2007 but thats only €13.5 million. Fair enough they spent more money than they received but a 13 million loss is nothing to having 3,000 billion that they are doing nothing with. The church could pay off Ireland's national debit 30 times and still have billions left over. Writing out the amount just amazes me, I can't believe that the Catholic church has €3,000,000,000,000 that they wont do anything with.

Even if they keep up their losses next year they could have €29,999,986,500. It's like when your playing a computer game any yo do an infinite money cheat, you can spend all day and see it going down but you know it will never run out.

Amtmann

GarIT wrote: »

I just found out that in a 1994 audit the church had 410 billion in
cash, 479 billion in stocks and bonds, 29 billion in gold, and 470
billion in fixed assets - investments and real-estate thats in lira, but the catholic church could do a lot of work if it wanted to put its own money into charity.

Source?

GarIT

Amtmann wrote: »

Source?

I can't find the original source but here it is on Google answers, and if you search for "Catholic church assets" you will find it referenced in a good few places so I presume it is true if many people were talking about it then.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=54617

beerbuddy

GarIT wrote: »

I just found out that in a 1994 audit the church had 410 billion in
cash, 479 billion in stocks and bonds, 29 billion in gold, and 470
billion in fixed assets - investments and real-estate thats in lira, but the catholic church could do a lot of work if it wanted to put its own money into charity.[/QUOs

sorry but google answers dosent count for much.

shadowcomplex

GarIT wrote: »

I just found out that in a 1994 audit the church had 410 billion in
cash, 479 billion in stocks and bonds, 29 billion in gold, and 470
billion in fixed assets - investments and real-estate thats in lira, but the catholic church could do a lot of work if it wanted to put its own money into charity.

i wish they bought manutd

GarIT

beerbuddy wrote: »

sorry but google answers dosent count for much.

Yeah but if you read around that audit is mentioned in loads of places, even in some news paper articles although the amounts aren't mentioned it must have happened.

Corkfeen

Amtmann wrote: »

Source?

http://www.zenit.org/article-1900?l=english This seems to backup the stats.....

For the eighth consecutive year, the operating statement for fiscal year 2000 for the Holy See closes with a net gain of 17.720 billion, equal to $8,516,000 US at the exchange rate at the end of the year of 2,080.89 lire per dollar. The total expenses were 404.378 billion and the total income was 422.098 billion. Compared with the previous fiscal year, the income was more substantial, having increased by 64 billion. As is easily imaginable, the increase in expenses is strictly related to the celebration of the Jubilee Year, which brought with it greater activity, and therefore a greater need for personnel, within the various offices of the Roman Curia and also of the media organs connected with the Holy See.

Gregor Samsa

joseph brand wrote: »

He loves that chair! He'd fight you for it.

It's worth fighting for. How would he speak ex cathedra without it? It's what gives him is magic infallibility powers.

mikemac1

Rome may be rich but every diocese in Ireland is expected to manage themselves afaik
There is no funding from Rome that I've heard of.
Our parish contributes to maintain the Church and when the graveyard needed expansion a farmer donated the land, it wasn't bought and paid for.

Some dioceses [no clue how to spell it] are doing ok but I remember reading last year that Dublin was going broke.

Could this be the first case of rural Ireland subsidizing Dublin?
With taxes it's usually the other way around

GarIT

mikemac1 wrote: »

Rome may be rich but every diocese in Ireland is expected to manage themselves afaik
There is no funding from Rome that I've heard of.
Our parish contributes to maintain the Church and when the graveyard needed expansion a farmer donated the land, it wasn't bought and paid for.

Some dioceses [no clue how to spell it] are doing ok but I remember reading last year that Dublin was going broke.

Could this be the first case of rural Ireland subsidizing Dublin?
With taxes it's usually the other way around

The Vatican sets budgets for all the diocese but I'm not sure how that works either. There should be funding from Rome for any struggling. From the way I see it, financially worldwide the church is struggling except in Rome where they are filthy rich and don't care about anyone even their own. A point I made earlier maybe on another thread is that every parish does fundraising for itself as well as for charity, and they do that on their own, the Vatican is sitting on top of billions of euro and will do nothing with it. I'm not a believer but most of the parishes do great work, its Rome that's the problem.

Statistician

Anyone that doubts the wealth of the Catholic Church should take a stroll around St Peter's one day.

My visit helped me not want to be a Catholic. For me, the whole place seemed evil. Full of priceless artwork and dripping with gold.

Galvasean

"The Golden Throne is a massive cybernetic life support mechanism utilizing ancient advanced biomechanical technology that possesses the ability to amplify psychic abilities. The Throne was modified by the Adeptus Mechanicus under the direction of the Emperor of Mankind following the end of the Horus Heresy during the Battle of Terra and now sustains his mortally crippled body's life functions. Even as the Emperor's slowly rotting physical form sits inert within the Golden Throne, his mind remains active in the Warp, directing the beacon of the Astronomican that makes interstellar Warp travel possible in the Imperium and combating the enemies of humanity within the Immaterium. The Golden Throne is located on Terra, deep within the continent-spanning complex of the Imperial Palace, specifically in the area where the Himalaya Mountains once towered. The Golden Throne is located in a deep subterranean chamber at the heart of the Imperial Palace, the so-called Sanctum Imperialis, built under what was once Mount Everest. It is a huge, baroque cybernetic life support system that maintains the life functions of the nearly-comatose body of the Emperor following his mortal wounding at the end of the Horus Heresy. As the 41st Millennium drew to a close in what many pessimistic Imperial historians have begun to call the Imperium of Man's Time of Ending, the Adepts of the Mechanicus discovered to their horror that the Golden Throne's mechanisms were slowly failing and that they now lacked the knowledge of how to repair its technology. Unless something is done, the Golden Throne will eventually malfunction and the Emperor of Mankind will die, surrendering his spirit to the Warp and throwing all of Mankind into darkness once more -- or setting the stage for humanity's final salvation."
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Golden_Throne

mathepac

GarIT wrote: »

... you will find it referenced in a good few places so I presume it is true if many people were talking about it then....

Ah isn't that lovely though, such a simple faith in the power of repetition and the Internet. A sun reader as well, no doubt and an avid ad-consumer.

Sonics2k

mathepac wrote: »

Ah isn't that lovely though, such a simple faith in the power of repetition and the Internet. A sun reader as well, no doubt and an avid ad-consumer.

As opposed to repeating words from the Bible? Which lets face it, is about as good as the Sun.

In other words, what you're basically saying is this:
"I can't form a coherent argument against the evidence you have shown me, so instead I'll resort to minor insults."

GarIT

mathepac wrote: »

Ah isn't that lovely though, such a simple faith in the power of repetition and the Internet. A sun reader as well, no doubt and an avid ad-consumer.

Its hilarious how you try to make fun of me believing a source that is found in many places yet you believe a book that in reality you have no idea who wrote it, when or why.

mathepac

Sonics2k wrote: »

As opposed to repeating words from the Bible? Which lets face it, is about as good as the Sun....

I don't remember quoting or repeating any words from the Bible, but if you and your little acolyte who constantly thanks your posts say so then obviously I must have - the power of repetition reinforcing each others' posts maybe?

Sonics2k wrote: »

... In other words, what you're basically saying is this: "I can't form a coherent argument against the evidence you have shown me, so instead I'll resort to minor insults."

No what I'm basically saying (or typing more correctly) is what I typed in my OP, nothing more and nothing less. By the way I can't remember any evidence that you have presented to me that I have found it necessary to argue against.

GarIT wrote: »

Its hilarious how you try to make fun of me believing a source that is found in many places yet you believe a book that in reality you have no idea who wrote it, when or why.

Actually you do a great job making fun of yourself; you are not in need of help from me on that front.

Can you explain to me in English waht book you refer to?

Sonics2k

mathepac wrote: »

I don't remember quoting or repeating any words from the Bible, but if you and your little acolyte who constantly thanks your posts say so then obviously I must have - the power of repetition reinforcing each others' posts maybe?

Did I say you did? It was a general statement about how quickly the religious will quote from the Bible, which is as a fact, a work of fiction clouded in mythology and fantasy.

As for the comment about 'constantly' thanking my post, I think the one above may be the only one, then again, I don't really pay attention to such matters. Are they that important to you?

mathepac wrote: »

No what I'm basically saying (or typing more correctly) is what I typed in my OP, nothing more and nothing less. By the way I can't remember any evidence that you have presented to me that I have found it necessary to argue against.
Actually you do a great job making fun of yourself; you are not in need of help from me on that front.

GarIT was asked to provide a source, and openly said all he could find then and there was a link to a Google document, which also had links to various other sources. Which is exactly what he was asked for. It was provided, and you quickly dismissed it.

How is this in any way complicated?

joseph brand

The thread title sounds like some version of a 'King's Chair'. (when you get carried around by your mates).

Besides the chair, how much would his HAT fetch at auction? Elvis' 'blue suede shoes' went up for auction recently. The pope could sell signed t-shirts and end poverty. Seriously though, he could.

GarIT

mathepac wrote: »

Sonics2k wrote: »

As opposed to repeating words from the Bible? Which lets face it, is about as good as the Sun....

I don't remember quoting or repeating any words from the Bible, but if you and your little acolyte who constantly thanks your posts say so then obviously I must have - the power of repetition reinforcing each others' posts maybe?

Sonics2k wrote: »

... In other words, what you're basically saying is this: "I can't form a coherent argument against the evidence you have shown me, so instead I'll resort to minor insults."

No what I'm basically saying (or typing more correctly) is what I typed in my OP, nothing more and nothing less. By the way I can't remember any evidence that you have presented to me that I have found it necessary to argue against.

GarIT wrote: »

Its hilarious how you try to make fun of me believing a source that is found in many places yet you believe a book that in reality you have no idea who wrote it, when or why.

Actually you do a great job making fun of yourself; you are not in need of help from me on that front.

Can you explain to me in English waht book you refer to?

You thank a post that was helpful to you that's how it works isn't it, and the book I was refering to is the bible.

recedite

mikemac1 wrote: »

Rome may be rich but every diocese in Ireland is expected to manage themselves afaik
There is no funding from Rome that I've heard of.
Our parish contributes to maintain the Church .......

The Vatican has always sucked in money from the faithful around the world, never the other way round.

krudler

Dades

Lads, cut out the handbags.

Sarky wrote: »

I heard it has a magical sweet dispenser that only ever gives you red and purple Starbursts Opel Fruits.

Also, fyp.

The Mad Hatter

Dades wrote: »

Sarky wrote: »

I heard it has a magical sweet dispenser that only ever gives you red and purple Starbursts Opel Opal Fruits.

Also, fyp.

fyfp;)

Sarky

I was trying to appeal to a younger generation. I guess that was a mistake :pac:

sbsquarepants

GarIT wrote: »

Going off a rough estimation the Pope could sell his chair and feed 80,000 African children for 10 years. Given that the bible says that you should sell your possessions and give to the poor why doesn't he?

I think the simple answer is cos he's a <mod edit>cantaloupe.</snip>

Statistician wrote: »

Anyone that doubts the wealth of the Catholic Church should take a stroll around St Peter's one day.

My visit helped me not want to be a Catholic. For me, the whole place seemed evil. Full of priceless artwork and dripping with gold.

I was disgusted with the the place myself. Nero's bath was a particular eye opener. It must weigh a couple of tons and the material it's made from (porphyry) costs more than it's weight in gold! The vatican actually own practicaly all the porphyry in the world.

Galvasean

Sarky wrote: »

I was trying to appeal to a younger generation. I guess that was a mistake :pac:

So much for us atheists being fashionable teens rebelling against their parents.

GO CONQUER! :pac:

stoneill

JP1 was murdered (allegedly) as he wanted to sell off all the Vatican loot and use the money to help the starving people around the world.

Not my theory just in case the secret Vatican police are monitoring Boards

Galvasean

stoneill wrote: »

Not my theory just in case the secret Vatican police are monitoring Boards

They are. They aren't all that secret about it though.

Percyhale1

Although I couldn't find it's exact worth, it definitely isn't a real gold chair; it's gilded. The Catholic Church does more to aid the poor than any other private organization already. This points out that the argument isn't about the poor or what the "riches" of the Catholic Church, but about the heart of men. The total Vatican budget is about $365 million. Most large universities have this budget several times over.
Now ask yourself, how much money have you given to the poor?

"don't look at us look over there OVER THERE"

People are perfectly entitled to ask why worshipers of someone who said "give up all your riches if you want to enter heaven" are surrounded by riches

Particularly since they like registering themselves as charities

Dades

Percyhale1 wrote: »

The total Vatican budget is about $365 million. Most large universities have this budget several times over.

At least universities educate people with facts and applicable life skills.

That's a far bigger contribution to society than the RCC spending their donated money indoctrinating impoverished Africans.

magicbastarder

Percyhale1 wrote: »

Most large universities have this budget several times over.

so?

magicbastarder

the complaint is about assets, not about budget. it's about an organisation wallowing in luxury preaching about the virtue of abstinence and poverty.

Penn

Percyhale1 wrote: »

Now ask yourself, how much money have you given to the poor?

I'd prefer to ask a few different questions:

a) Where does the Catholic Church get its money? (I presume a lot of it is donations, which mean the Catholic Church doesn't give to the poor, it distributes the money of other people to the poor)
b) How much money does the Catholic Church save considering it's tax exempt in numerous ways and locations?
c) How much money has the Catholic Church given to the poor in areas which don't follow Christianity or adhere to most Christianity ideals?
d) How much more money could the Catholic Church give considering its huge and largely unnecessary expenditures?
e) How much money have you given to the poor?

robindch

One of many, many, many possible images.

GarIT

magicbastarder wrote: »

so?

They spend it on education people rather than investments and buying companies that sell porn.

GarIT

Percyhale1 wrote: »

Although I couldn't find it's exact worth, it definitely isn't a real gold chair; it's gilded. The Catholic Church does more to aid the poor than any other private organization already. This points out that the argument isn't about the poor or what the "riches" of the Catholic Church, but about the heart of men. The total Vatican budget is about $365 million. Most large universities have this budget several times over.
Now ask yourself, how much money have you given to the poor?

Do you have any evidence of the Catholic Church aiding the poor?

I have given nothing to the poor, I don't want to either, The government already gives €200 per person in Ireland to charity per year. What I wan't to know is why the Church is so rich and tells people to do things for charity but does nothing itself.

Sarky

Percyhale1 wrote: »

Now ask yourself, how much money have you given to the poor?

With a decade of charity conventions and university society events under my organisational belt, approximately 2.3 metric f*cktonnes more than yourself I'm quite willing to bet.

robindch

Sarky wrote: »

With a decade of charity conventions and university society events under my organisational belt, approximately 2.3 metric f*cktonnes more than yourself I'm quite willing to bet.

Funny you should mention that.

Having lost an argument with a religious friend of mine many years ago, I spent around five years working one night a week for a well-known inner-city charity. And, to a greater or lesser extent, enjoying every minute of it. Over the years, there were perhaps fifteen people who rotated through my shift and of those, I recall only two who ever said they were catholic. Of those, one had lost a dinner argument one evening, but to his infinite credit, had subsequently stuck to his word and joined up.

Don't even get me started on the door-to-door we did one year and how that broke down along religious lines.

pauldla

robindch wrote: »

Don't even get me started on the door-to-door we did one year and how that broke down along religious lines.

Oh go on, tell us! I want to hear what happened...

Galvasean

Percyhale1 wrote: »

Now ask yourself, how much money have you given to the poor?

*looks at sig*
Turn up and Saturday and we can find out.

Penn wrote: »

I'd prefer to ask a few different questions:

a) Where does the Catholic Church get its money? (I presume a lot of it is donations, which mean the Catholic Church doesn't give to the poor, it distributes the money of other people to the poor)
b) How much money does the Catholic Church save considering it's tax exempt in numerous ways and locations?
c) How much money has the Catholic Church given to the poor in areas which don't follow Christianity or adhere to most Christianity ideals?
d) How much more money could the Catholic Church give considering its huge and largely unnecessary expenditures?
e) How much money have you given to the poor?

f) How much does it cost to dress a Bishop?

5 grand per Bishop

I think this one d) How much more money could the Catholic Church give considering its huge and largely unnecessary expenditures? is quite important. What was that part in the Bible where Jesus mentioned how good your charity work is not related to the total sum you donate, but in relation to how much you have to spare?
While it's obvious that the Catholic Church (as a vast organisation) gives more to charity (let's just pretend for a minute that all of their donations are selfless ones) than I (as an individual person), I wonder who gives more in terms of percentage of expendable capitol (not to mention precious time)?

Bannasidhe

Sarky wrote: »

With a decade of charity conventions and university society events under my organisational belt, approximately 2.3 metric f*cktonnes more than yourself I'm quite willing to bet.

I suppose I could ask my local VdeP to tot up my donations for the last decade or so but tbh I think they have better things to do, as do Cork Penny Dinners and Share.

Does volunteering on helplines count?

What about animal welfare? I'm sure West Cork Animal Welfare, Animal Rescue Cobh and Munster Pets Lost and Found would put in a good word for me.

Sarky

Well holy balls, it almost sounds like we godless heathens are actually really quite charitable. And without a demanding god or threats of eternal agony, too.

Isn't that just mad, like?

Bannasidhe

Sarky wrote: »

Well holy balls, it almost sounds like we godless heathens are actually really quite charitable. And without a demanding god or threats of eternal agony, too.

Isn't that just mad, like?

Maybe, and this is a bit out there, its because some of us Godless heathens are concentrating on this life and not focused on trying to buy our way into some promised afterlife.