Mobility = Warm up ???

holdfast

I have started doing a mobility element of my warm up after foam rolling. I do two to three routines for my shoulders, thoracic spine, hips and ankles. Do I then need to do a dynamic warm as well ??? or is it the same thing ?

What type of dynamic warm do you do ?.

Hanley

I'd be interested to hear what you think you could do additionally?

A good mobility warm up should focus on movement for the most part, which should be dynamic in nature... Then a few light sets of whatever exercise you're doing... then start to ramp the weight up...

Simples!

holdfast

It's just when you are use to a couple of calf stretchs etc done at speed, olg school GAA got the heart rate gping. Yea maybe I am thinking too much. Cheers

Hanley

holdfast wrote: »

It's just when you are use to a couple of calf stretchs etc done at speed, olg school GAA got the heart rate gping. Yea maybe I am thinking too much. Cheers

Well what activity are you warming up for? Weights?

nice_guy80

foam rolling
followed by static stretching
followed by mobility exercises

thats the ideal warm up.

read this
http://www.gaahandball.ie/images/gaahandball/fmp.pdf

Doug Cartel

Static stretches are best kept for afterwards. I wouldn't have them as part of my warm up.

nice_guy80

I have always been recommended static stretching (by a strength and conditioning coach)
its prehab, before my warm up!

Doug Cartel

I haven't had pre-exercise static stretching recommended to me since PE classes in school.

For a while there there was a lot of info out there saying that static stretches before exercise was a bad thing, now there seems to be studies saying that it's not harmful, but I haven't heard any credible evidence that they are a good thing.

d'Oracle

Doug Cartel wrote: »

I haven't had pre-exercise static stretching recommended to me since PE classes in school.

For a while there there was a lot of info out there saying that static stretches before exercise was a bad thing, now there seems to be studies saying that it's not harmful, but I haven't heard any credible evidence that they are a good thing.

As I understand it, it was never really that bad a thing to begin with. Like the research wasn't saying it was really all that bad. Just that it slightly increased the chance of injury. I'm pretty sure they didn't do the research on people who sit at desks all day either.

The physio I went to for my hip has me doing static stretches as part of my warmup before I work out.
I guess she thinks that the dangers of not addressing my dysfunction are of a greater degree than the dangers of static stretching before activity.

UL_heart_throb

I'm not sure where the dogma shift came from going from static stretches before or after exercising but i don't think there is much evidence saying either is particularly good or bad, especially not relative to one another.

J-Fit

Static stretching pre exercise negatively affects power output for up to an hour in some cases. A dynamic warm up after static stretching, not before, seems to offset that. I still put it at the end of training for convenience sake.

UL_heart_throb

J-Fit wrote: »

Static stretching pre exercise negatively affects power output for up to an hour in some cases. A dynamic warm up after static stretching, not before, seems to offset that. I still put it at the end of training for convenience sake.

Let's say I do a dynamic warm up, and some empty bar deadlifts then I deadlift 100kg for 5 sets of 5, with some failure on the last set.

What would have happened if i did a full body static stretch instead, specifically the muscles in the hamstrings, quads and calves, how much loss of performance would i have got in terms of deadlift load, rep and set

substitute deadlift for squat if you think that's a better suited to the sentiment of the question posed

J-Fit

UL_heart_throb wrote: »

Let's say I do a dynamic warm up, and some empty bar deadlifts then I deadlift 100kg for 5 sets of 5, with some failure on the last set.

What would have happened if i did a full body static stretch instead, specifically the muscles in the hamstrings, quads and calves, how much loss of performance would i have got in terms of deadlift load, rep and set

substitute deadlift for squat if you think that's a better suited to the sentiment of the question posed

Judging from what I've read, approx. 9% decrease. It's all very ironic though. I remember one stage of my training life not being happy with my squatting technique and particularly some poor T-Spine and hip mobility which I felt prevented me getting in to a low, strong position. Stretching immediately prior to lifting temporarily improved my positioning and I lifted more as a result. My muscles were probably exerting less force but because I was pulled in better alignment, my lift improved.

Hanley

The static stretching stuff is bullsh*t imo. I've read some of the studies and I don't like them. If I make you stretch really hard and then send you to something immediately afterwards, of course there'll be a detriment in performance.

I think the evidence shows some mobility work afterwards before the test (and remember it's a test in isolation they're studying) will mitigate the effects and restore normal levels or performance.

Then there's the whole thing about stretching the right muscles increase performance - hip flexors and vertical jump testing.

There's a lot of bullsh*t USP creation in it. If you think static stretching helps, do it, intelligently. Do your mobility work. Do your foam rolling.

The "test" process for determining whether or not static stretching is worthwhile or whether it negatively impacts performance is far too narrow to look at in a relevant context to most.

Rossin

Hanley wrote: »

A good mobility warm up should focus on movement for the most part, which should be dynamic in nature...

what would an example of this be?


ive had trouble recently with my shoulders and I'm almost certain it was down to not warming up properly, I also hurt my neck sometimes, kind of like a creak in the neck, it would be gone a day or 2 later, but again I think its to do with my warm up

I usually warm up on the cross trainer, is this much use?

Hanley

Rossin wrote: »

what would an example of this be?


ive had trouble recently with my shoulders and I'm almost certain it was down to not warming up properly, I also hurt my neck sometimes, kind of like a creak in the neck, it would be gone a day or 2 later, but again I think its to do with my warm up

3 rounds:
T-spine mob over foam roller x20
Over/Unders x10
Wall Slides x10
Quad walk x10
Band pull aparts x15
Clams/bridging x15

Off the top of my head and first ones I thought of. Youtube them if needs be.

But it hits the main problem areas - hip mobility, glute acitvation, thoracic extension and scapular control.

I usually warm up on the cross trainer, is this much use?

No

Sugar Free

J-Fit wrote: »

...Stretching immediately prior to lifting temporarily improved my positioning and I lifted more as a result. My muscles were probably exerting less force but because I was pulled in better alignment, my lift improved.

I also do this, in addition to some dynamic stuff after stretching.
In the long run I think better movement patterns brought about by temporary improvement in position is more beneficial than moving a bit more weight with worse technique (though obviously people should aim to be able to do this without a sh*t load of stretching directly beforehand).

Actually, there was a big thread on this topic in the Strength Sports forum with two main arguments. I think it can depend on a lot of factors but for someone like me with long standing, chronic mobility issues, I'd rather take a hit on numbers and work on the movement.

J-Fit

Hanley wrote: »

The static stretching stuff is bullsh*t imo. I've read some of the studies and I don't like them. If I make you stretch really hard and then send you to something immediately afterwards, of course there'll be a detriment in performance.

It's not bull**** you know? Are you aware of the theory as to why it impacts power performance?

Hanley wrote: »

I think the evidence shows some mobility work afterwards before the test (and remember it's a test in isolation they're studying) will mitigate the effects and restore normal levels or performance.

Didn't I say this above?

Hanley wrote: »

Then there's the whole thing about stretching the right muscles increase performance - hip flexors and vertical jump testing.

I think that's true.

Hanley wrote: »

The "test" process for determining whether or not static stretching is worthwhile or whether it negatively impacts performance is far too narrow to look at in a relevant context to most.

Why do you say this?