Ask me anything.

I know this is a very sensitive and delicate subject and I would not want to make anyone upset, but I am genuine curiouser about this subject.

I was listing to Joe Duffy yesterday and the subject was women who are beaten and abused by their partner. The women seemed to get in to relationships with men who were able to pick on the one issue that the woman felt bad about and then the men used the said issue to abuse their partner.

For example a women who has issues with her weight getting involved with a man who is critical of women being over weight the women seems to think at the beginning of the relationship that her partner is only "trying to help her loose weight" or its a woman who has mixed feeling about having a lot of sexual partners who get involved with a man who is critical of women having a lot of sexual partners or its a woman who is not good with money getting involved with a man who is controlling about money.

My first question is why do women get involved with men who can pick on the one issue she may have and my second question is at the beginning of a relationship are the woman unable to see the man's behavior as abuse especially today with all the information that is a available and all the choices that woman have.

knowit12

you can't help who you fall for...

I think it's a case that if you have a issuie or something you are insecure about people will use it againist you as a way of control..

Sometimes people can think they "are trying to help you" when in actually fact they're only making you feel worse..


When you first fall for someone they might not be the person they are going to be in future.
I find the further you get into a relationship with a person and longer you are with them you fall further and further in love with them and the more you need them in your life no matter what ...
the longer your with a person more of their colours will show, some people show their true colours earlier then others...

That's just my opinion

seenitall

People choose the kind of partner who will reflect how they feel about themselves.

I know it sounds a bit weird when put like that, but that's subconscious for you. It's a very powerful force inside us, for good and bad alike.

You can't see all the self-loathing someone can hold inside them, it's not visible to you, so you are left puzzled by their choice of abusive partner. The truth is that the person has a lot of issues around self-image and self-esteem, and more often than not they feel that they are not worthy of being happy. Therefore, on a subconscious level, they will choose a partner who also feels that their OH is not worthy of happiness (on account of issues of their own, obviously).

g'em

mariaalice wrote: »

My first question is why do women get involved with men who can pick on the one issue she may have and my second question is at the beginning of a relationship are the woman unable to see the men behavior as abuse especially today with all the information that is a available and all the choices that woman have.

I can only speak from experience here, but from talking with other women who followed a similar pattern it should ring true in a lot of cases.

Abusive men do not wear signs around their neck in big read letters telling the world that their big bad meanies. Abusive men are (usually) quite charming by nature. Their need to control, dominate, abuse stems from a deep-rooted insecurity and a need to belittle their partner. They don't start out that way, in fact they may not even realise that it's what they do. But a part of their need to dominate is the need to chase initially which will (again, usually) bring out their best behaviour. It's very easy to fall for this type of pesonality, very easy indeed.

So you're trundling along in this blissful new relationship. He has faults, cracks in his persona, but hey, you love him, and if you love him hard enough, just right, you can help him to fix those cracks... right? So you keep the emotional polyfilla to hand and you help to plaster in the cracks and the fissures. And then they keep getting deeper, and take more and more of you to fill in to the point that one day you realise that you have utterly lost the essence of who you really are becuase you've spent the last few months/ years/ decades spending all your energy on making them feel better. At this stage what little self-esteem you may have is torn away with a single mean throwaway remark. But on the flipside, by now, he has you so utterly convinced that no-one else would want you that there seems little point in trying to leave.

Your well being becomes hinged on how happy you can make them, all the while not realising that you will never achieve this elusive goal. Your happiness depends on something you can never have. Sounds ludicrous, but it's an amazingly normal feeling when you're stuck in the thick of it.

This is quite an extreme example of behaviour, granted, but like knowit12 said you don't really see someone's true colours until your knee deep in bonding hormones and by then the all-encompassing "but I can CHANGE THEM" thoughts have a habit of tking over...

ShiftStorm

knowit12 wrote: »

you can't help who you fall for...

I respectfully disagree; I think we have more of a choice than we think we do

@seenitall, I agree.

eviltwin

I used to think the same as the OP...I would hear of a woman being abused and think "Leave!!!"

But DV is a very strange thing, the dynamics of it are so complex its not always that easy for a woman to recognise she is being abused let alone find the courage to leave.

I work now with women in abusive relationships. Often they are women who don't know until its too late what their partner is like, often the abuse is subtle and she really doesn't know that what she is living with is unacceptable. Sometimes the abuse is financial so she has no money to go anywhere or she has kids and can't uproot them.

Sometimes it really is the lesser of two evils to stay....hard as that is to understand. The most dangerous time for any woman is when she is planning to leave or has just left. I have spoken to women who have had men banging at the doors and she has let him in only to have a beating and I ask "why did you let him in" and she will say " he would have broken the door down and beat me twice as hard"

The help out there is not perfect...there is not enough of it and it tends to be located in urban areas so its hard to access harder still for certain groups of women ie travellers, foreign nationals, disabled women

The worse thing we can do is blame the victims for not seeing what they are getting into. They need our help and support.

I know its different for a woman with children/financially dependent on her partner, I am more wondering about a woman who is getting in to a relationship with a man and who is financial not dependant....but still stays in a relationship where she is abused, it amazes me that a woman stayers in relationship with a man who called her a slut or fat or used language like that about women in general.

eviltwin

mariaalice wrote: »

I know its different for a woman with children/financially dependent on her partner, I am more wondering about a woman who is getting in to a relationship with a man and who is financial not dependant....but still stays in a relationship where she is abused, it amazes me that a woman stayers in relationship with a man who called her a slut or fat or used language like that about women in general.

But these guys are so cute, they are master manipulators and know exactly how to say / do something to make her second guess herself.

So a comment like "your overweight" will be followed straight away with "ah I'm only joking" or "I'm only saying it cause I am worried about your health"

And she has no idea how to take it...she might mention it to someone she trusts and is accused of being oversensitive but that person doesn't see or hear how its said. And then she really feels like she is being stupid and worrying over nothing.

And you know sometimes we can say things like that and its not abusive...its not so much the comments or the words but the intent behind them I think.

Neyite

I was in an abusive relationship for about 18 months. Of course it was not abusive in the beginning, and even towards the end, it was mostly emotional rather than physical abuse that occured.

I used to think like you Mariealice- why dont these women just leave?
Well, it was all very black and white then and I didnt understand the shades of grey involved in it.

Over the years thinking back on it, I realise that it takes two to cause that situation. My ex, Mark* was the intense one - the first to say "l Love you", pushing to move in as soon as possible, naming our future children etc. I was swept off my feet. I was mad about him.

In work, I was someone who was ballsy, who wouldnt take crap or get walked on, same with friends - if they let me down, I'd call them out on it, so why was it so easy for someone like me to end up after 18 months of a relationship with his hands around my throat squeezing and calling me a C*nt?

Firstly, when we are in a relationship, we develop trust for each other - we trust that the other person cares about us, and wants to see us happy, and would guard our secrets and insecurities. So we let our guard down. We fall in love, we trust, we throw out lot in with them. And sometimes that person uses the little foibiles we all have to nudge us from time to time - too subtle to insult you outright - its more like just that little bit to knock you off balance slightly. For instance:

"that dress is lovely, but if you put a padded bra on under it it would give it a better shape" (but you already are wearing a padded bra - so now your lovely outfit for the night out that you felt fabulous in, makes you feel self-consious and have your arms crossed for the night) To further reinforce it, they might let you see them "accidently" glance at your busty mates cleavage. If you get pissed off, well you are over-reacting, arent you?)

"are they new jeans? they probably will loosen up once you wear them" (but its a pair you've had for ages so the only explanation is that you obviously put on weight and your usual jeans are now too tight.)

You dont meet a guy who has the string vest, tin of dutch gold and a menacing look. You meet the gorgeous man that all your mates and family approve of who is sexy, charming, commited and who, most of all, adores you. So you want to please him - so far thats normal in any relationship - I love to wear what my partner finds attractive, and I have bought clothes on his suggestion, so all a DV partner does is push it that tiny bit further, bit by bit.

Gradually over time, you fight more, because he is "stressed at work" or you have money worries, or whatever, and when you make up the underlying reason for the row is always down to external factors - the flat you rent is too cramped, once you get somewhere nice, life will be great or once the big project that the boss is on his back for is over things will get back to normal and hunky dory again, or he wont overdo it on the drink the next time ( or mix drinks or whatever) once the car bill is sorted and he is not worried about money and bills it will be fine, and so on.

Domestic abuse happens with any intimate relationship - I know a few guys who were almost destroyed by their ex girlfriends, it happens in same-sex relationships, with elder abuse, child abuse.

Its about someone deriving pleasure from the fact they can with just an "innocent" remark take you from being in a good mood to being fearful, and upset.

Certainly, self esteem plays a massive part in the conditioning of the victim. I believed by the end of the relationship that I was ugly, fat (at 6.5stone) old (at 29) and such a horrible person that nobody would every want me. My self esteem was already quite low before the relationship but was non-existent by the end.

It was only because one night, he went too far at a family gathering that my mother hauled me off to a womens refuge for counselling. Even then, I felt I couldnt give up, that we needed one more try and went back for 6 weeks. Finally, as I was coming to the realisation with continued counselling that it would never change, and he was more aware that he was losing his hold over me, that he moved on to someone else before I dumped him.

Stheno

eviltwin wrote: »

But these guys are so cute, they are master manipulators and know exactly how to say / do something to make her second guess herself.

So a comment like "your overweight" will be followed straight away with "ah I'm only joking" or "I'm only saying it cause I am worried about your health"

And she has no idea how to take it...she might mention it to someone she trusts and is accused of being oversensitive but that person doesn't see or hear how its said. And then she really feels like she is being stupid and worrying over nothing.

And you know sometimes we can say things like that and its not abusive...its not so much the comments or the words but the intent behind them I think.

Just as Neyite said with guys like that there is usually a vicious (but innocently delivered) undertone that over time wears the woman down

Then it escalates to minor physical violence, then to greater levels, one woman I know was locked in their flat every day when their partner left, and only lot out when he was home and could "supervise" where she went

Snoopy1

Ive been in abusive relationships, and after each one swore i would never fall for it again.
But my self esteem is so low, i usually stayed with a guy because i believed there would be no-one else out there that would want me.

Happily i have now found a guy, who treats me totally right

Neyite

Stheno wrote: »

Just as Neyite said with guys like that there is usually a vicious (but innocently delivered) undertone that over time wears the woman down

Then it escalates to minor physical violence, then to greater levels, one woman I know was locked in their flat every day when their partner left, and only lot out when he was home and could "supervise" where she went

And this probably would have initially started as a simple "honey, wait until I can go with you to X shop, its in a rough area, and I want to look after you" or come on the heels of a minor incident where the woman mentions that there was a wino roaring outside the shop or whatever. - i.e. a loving or protective gesture, which most of us do in our relationships.

For instance, I always text my partner when I arrive at my mothers or sisters house after the long drive, to let him know I arrived ok. He wants to know out of genuine concern, (and especially since I am now pregnant he is super-protective, and fussing around checking the tyres and oil and fuel before I can go) But a DV partner might insist on exactly the same "home safe" message, yet its not because he is worried about her, its so he can keep tabs on her.

Same gesture, different motives. I text because I know my partner will worry something happened in the hours on the road, Initially she will think like me, but over time she will text because she knows he will get angry, suspicious, and use it to cause a fight, and hasnt even recognised how it gradually veered from worry to jealousy.

The same can apply to clothing - You wear something out and look great, then your boyfriend mentions your mates new fella was oogling you all night. He's not mad at you, or him but would go "did you notice Ann's date was looking down your top all night. I'd watch him, he might be a bit of a perv" You didnt notice but you agree that eyeing you up is a bit pervy. Then the next time you are going out, and pick a low cut top, your boyfriend mentions that guy will be there, so you rethink and choose to wear something less revealing.

You know it puts a dampner on your boyfriends night when he sees Ann's boyfriend perving on his girlfriend, so you try to avoid wearing something that will get noticed by "perv".

See? in that above example the DV partner has not demanded a thing, the victim has chosen to change her clothing. I'm not for one minute saying its her fault though - its all skillful social engineering. Down the line, he may become more open and less subtle about his controlling behaviour, and might actually pick out the clothes, but initially its so subtle you dont see it.

Its her insecurity initially that she bends over backwards to please her partner, and worries about his happiness. As less and less makes him happy, and causes tension in the relationship, she tries more and more to avoid doing things to increase the tension, thus giving him more and more power over her.

In my above post, I have referred to the abuser as "he" and the victim as "she" as a default - this is the most recognisable form - however it does happen in any domestic setup - children taking their parents pensions, forcing them to sign over assets, gay partners threatening to expose your sexuality to your work colleagues or peers, the big strapping fella with a wisp of a girlfriend that terrorises him, parents neglecting children, your flatmate who rules the roost.

This checklist below comes from Womens Aid website: http://www.womensaid.org.uk/domestic-violence-survivors-handbook.asp?section=0001000100080001&sectionTitle=The+Survivor%27s+Handbook


[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold]

Recognising domestic violence

[/FONT][/FONT]

Everyone has arguments, and everyone disagrees with their partners, family members, and others close to them from time to time. And we all do things at times which we regret, and which cause unhappiness to those we care about. But if this begins to form a consistent pattern, then it is an indication of domestic violence. The following questions may help you:

• Has your partner tried to keep you from seeing your friends or family?

• Has your partner prevented you from continuing or starting a college course, or from going to work?

• Does your partner constantly check up on you or follow you?

• Does your partner unjustly accuse you of flirting or of having affairs with others?

• Does your partner constantly belittle or humiliate you, or regularly criticise or insult you in front of other people?

• Are you ever afraid of your partner?

• Have you ever changed your behaviour because you are afraid of what your partner might do or say to you?

• Has your partner ever destroyed any of your possessions deliberately?

• Has your partner ever hurt or threatened you or your children?

• Has your partner ever kept you short of money so you are unable to buy food and other necessary items for yourself and your children?

• Has your partner ever forced you to do something that you really did not want to do?

• Has your partner ever tried to prevent you from taking necessary medication, or seeking medical help when you felt you needed it?

• Has your partner ever tried to control you by telling you you could be deported because of your immigration status?

• Has your partner ever threatened to take your children away, or said he would refuse to let you take them with you, or even to see them, if you left him?

• Has your partner ever forced you to have sex with him or with other people? Has he or she made you participate in sexual activities that you are uncomfortable about?

• Has your partner ever tried to prevent your leaving the house?

• Does your partner blame his use of alcohol or drugs for his behaviour?

• Does your partner control your use of alcohol or drugs? – for example, by forcing your intake or by withholding substances.

If you answered yes to one or more of the above questions, this indicates that

you may be experiencing domestic violence.

Wompa1

I'm a guy but this sounds like all of my ex girlfriends! Well I'll be damned, I've been in abusive relationships. All this time I just thought I was with insecure women!

Does your partner constantly check up on you or follow you?
Not constantly but they always seemed to need to know what I was doing and what I ate for dinner for some f'd up reason

Does your partner unjustly accuse you of flirting or of having affairs with others?

Pretty much every girl got jealous and did this.


Have you ever changed your behaviour because you are afraid of what your partner might do or say to you?

Yip!


Has your partner ever forced you to do something that you really did not want to do?

Yip!

ziggy23

From my own experience men like this prey on women with little or no self-esteem or they gradually break you down. At the start of the relationship they are fine but then little things start to creep in like a comment here and there. And they guy usually has self-esteem issues himself.