Irish Runner

RayCun

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

ah yeah but is golf even a sport?

it appears so :eek:

oldrunner

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

ah yeah but is golf even a sport?

don't know and don't care.

Hard Worker

myflipflops wrote: »

All this debate over Irish Runner??

Only way it could increase interest in athletics amongst young Irish people is if there were topless pictures of Blanka Vlasic in the centre page. Would be thousands of teenage boys arriving at the league final to buy a copy off Frank.

As 'thirtyfoot' said, it falls meekly between 2 sides of top end and casual running and suffers for it.


With the weight loss thing, I'm doing it at the moment. Lost about 25-30 lbs in the last 8 weeks. I'm happy I've done it but I am much more ashamed of the state i got into than proud of the loss. Why is it rude to say 'You have gotten fat' to someone but polite to say 'You have lost loads of weight' when the second comment insinuates the first?

Yes, you're the chap who mister numbers thinks is a lazy slob. That's the problem. He assumes that everyone who is obese is obese because they are lazy.
Regarding role models or athletes who youngsters might look up to: I'd say that there are very few kids who would bother with the likes of Derval O'Rourke or Mark Kenneally. No point in comparing any athlete to Messi or many Premier League players, apart from maybe Usain Bolt.
Ask any kid in Tallaght who Sean Connolly is and they wouldn't have a clue, yet every kid in Tallaght knows who Gary Twigg is. Similarly, when Jerry Kiernan came 9th in the Los Angeles Olympic Marathon he didn't get anywhere near the recognition in his native county that the gah players get. The point I'm making here is that the lady on the front cover of the Irish Runner has as much chance of inspiring people young and old, as has any of our elite athletes.

thirtyfoot

Hard Worker wrote: »

The point I'm making here is that the lady on the front cover of the Irish Runner has as much chance of inspiring people young and old, as has any of our elite athletes.

When you say young, what age group are we talking about?

I can confirm that athletes I coach in the 16-21 age group would take no inspiration from the lady on the cover. Same applies to those not in the sport that I know. They would never aspire to be in their sport to maybe lose weight.

If we want our young sportspeople to be inspired by these people, then we are going to have many dark years ahead in competitive sport.

Is this malaise of apathy just for athletics? How about hockey? Will young kids fancy playing a bit of hockey after seeing the men and women do well of late in Olympic qualifiers or would a woman playing Division 7 of the Leinster league do as good a job as long as she was a mam, maybe had big bones but 'hey, just got out there and did it'.

thirtyfoot

Hard Worker wrote: »

Ask any kid in Tallaght who Sean Connolly is and they wouldn't have a clue, yet every kid in Tallaght knows who Gary Twigg is. .

You go to Cork, ask kids in that county who Dan Murray and who Derval O' Rourke, who would be more known?

To be fair, Sean Connolly is hardly a Gillick or O' Rourke.

RayCun

thirtyfoot wrote: »

How about hockey? Will young kids fancy playing a bit of hockey after seeing the men and women do well of late in Olympic qualifiers or would a woman playing Division 7 of the Leinster league do as good a job as long as she was a mam, maybe had big bones but 'hey, just got out there and did it'.

Hmm, which is more likely to be on the front cover of Irish Hockey magazine? Oh, that's right, there isn't an Irish hockey magazine, because there isn't enough interest in the Olympic qualifying team, or hockey in schools, or the Leinster league, to support one.

But really, how many young kids who didn't already play hockey knew or cared about the Olympic qualification? And of the kids who do play hockey, and do care - how many would play without the support of their fat mams?

thirtyfoot

RayCun wrote: »

Hmm, which is more likely to be on the front cover of Irish Hockey magazine? Oh, that's right, there isn't an Irish hockey magazine, because there isn't enough interest in the Olympic qualifying team, or hockey in schools, or the Leinster league, to support one.

Exactly so do we need an Irish Runner, probably not.

RayCun wrote: »

But really, how many young kids who didn't already play hockey knew or cared about the Olympic qualification? And of the kids who do play hockey, and do care - how many would play without the support of their fat mams?

So maybe the fat mam will be inspired and get her kids involved. Will the fat mam be more inspired to see her young girls playing and looking like a hot Dutch (Irish or even Belgian) chick from an elite team or seeing someone like herself plod around on a cinder pitch spitting blood and trying to hide the cellulite while splitting the legs on a penalty corner. Do parents aspire to have their kids ending up like themselves?

When my kids are in their teens I would worried if they aspire to be like me, heading out for a plod a few times a week!

RayCun

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Exactly so do we need an Irish Runner, probably not.

You would rather there was no Irish Runner magazine at all, than a magazine that sometimes featured a female 3.30 marathon runner on the cover.
It's not elitism, it's hipsterism :rolleyes: You don't want your favourite band to be successful, because then the masses would get their filthy hands on it, and they don't appreciate it on the same level as you :rolleyes:

thirtyfoot wrote: »

So maybe the fat mam will be inspired and get her kids involved. Will the fat mam be more inspired to see her young girls playing and looking like a hot Dutch (Irish or even Belgian) chick from an elite team or seeing someone like herself plod around on a cinder pitch spitting blood and trying to hide the cellulite while splitting the legs on a penalty corner.

The fat mam isn't going to think she could be Derval O'Rourke - but maybe she could be Hannah Nolan.

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Do parents aspire to have their kids ending up like themselves?

Parents seem to want their kids to take up the sports they did (or do) themselves. They don't think "hmmm, if little Johnny takes up golf now, when he's 50 he can play off 15 like me!" But (apart from a few crazy ones) they don't think "I'll sign Jane up for gymnastics now... and in 14 years I'll watch her winning Olympic gold!"

thirtyfoot

Raycun - on IR, I'm indifferent, don't care whether it's there or not and in the age of the Internet and social media I don't think its relevant. Nothing to do with being uncool, it's the same IR as was there 20 years ago.

Fat mam might aspire to be Hannah Nolan, but does she aspire for her daughter to be like that? If so, in a sporting context, she is accepting mediocrity.

Not saying mams should try and devise a sporting career for them like Tiger Woods parents, just saying they should aspire for them to do the best they can do in whatever they choose and have an interest in - water polo, athletics, art, whatever.

Lest we forget this is an athletics forum. Athletics is a competitive sport yet on the forum there seems to be a majority who believe kids will look up as much to an overweight women who did good as opposed to a world champion. Celebrating mediocrity. I suspect this is because many of those who fear aiming high never aspired themselves to aim high, could be wrong. Aim high can be the best you can be and not necessarily aspire to be an Olympic champion.

tunguska

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Raycun - on IR, I'm indifferent, don't care whether it's there or not and in the age of the Internet and social media I don't think its relevant. Nothing to do with being uncool, it's the same IR as was there 20 years ago.

Fat mam might aspire to be Hannah Nolan, but does she aspire for her daughter to be like that? If so, in a sporting context, she is accepting mediocrity.

Not saying mams should try and devise a sporting career for them like Tiger Woods parents, just saying they should aspire for them to do the best they can do in whatever they choose and have an interest in - water polo, athletics, art, whatever.

Lest we forget this is an athletics forum. Athletics is a competitive sport yet on the forum there seems to be a majority who believe kids will look up as much to an overweight women who did good as opposed to a world champion. Celebrating mediocrity. I suspect this is because many of those who fear aiming high never aspired themselves to aim high, could be wrong. Aim high can be the best you can be and not necessarily aspire to be an Olympic champion.

I'd agree with that. Its a hard one to call really. On one hand im genuinely thrilled that this lady sorted herself out and turned things around. But on the other hand it really is a celebration of mediocrity and thats not such a great thing for irish sport. We're a nation that aims low in pretty much everything(maybe rugger is the exception) and we blame it all on genes, money, geography and anything else that sounds passable.

ultrapercy

Hard Worker wrote: »

Yes, you're the chap who mister numbers thinks is a lazy slob. That's the problem. He assumes that everyone who is obese is obese because they are lazy.
Regarding role models or athletes who youngsters might look up to: I'd say that there are very few kids who would bother with the likes of Derval O'Rourke or Mark Kenneally. No point in comparing any athlete to Messi or many Premier League players, apart from maybe Usain Bolt.
Ask any kid in Tallaght who Sean Connolly is and they wouldn't have a clue, yet every kid in Tallaght knows who Gary Twigg is. Similarly, when Jerry Kiernan came 9th in the Los Angeles Olympic Marathon he didn't get anywhere near the recognition in his native county that the gah players get. The point I'm making here is that the lady on the front cover of the Irish Runner has as much chance of inspiring people young and old, as has any of our elite athletes.

wrong

MrCreosote

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Lest we forget this is an athletics forum. Athletics is a competitive sport yet on the forum there seems to be a majority who believe kids will look up as much to an overweight women who did good as opposed to a world champion. Celebrating mediocrity.

Last time I checked it was Athletics AND running (and tri) forum. Running doesn't necessarily have to be competitive. Just because it is for you doesn't mean that the rest of the running population thinks the same way.

And why shouldn't the magazine represent that?

nerraw1111

tunguska wrote: »

We're a nation that aims low in pretty much everything(maybe rugger is the exception) and we blame it all on genes, money, geography and anything else that sounds passable.

Disagree with this. We punch way above our weight. A nation of 4 million odd and yet compete in all major sports on par. Be it football, rugby, golf, athletics. it's not like France, Austria, Netherlands, Croatia etc are world beaters. While we should aim, should also be realists.

I don't think we as a country aim low in anything outside of sport either.

Plus Dublin are World Football champions.

tunguska

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Disagree with this. We punch way above our weight. A nation of 4 million odd and yet compete in all major sports on par. Be it football, rugby, golf, athletics. it's not like France, Austria, Netherlands, Croatia etc are world beaters. While we should aim, should also be realists.

I don't think we as a country aim low in anything outside of sport either.

Plus Dublin are World Football champions.

Just proved my point thanks.

Pisco Sour

Hard Worker wrote: »

Yes, you're the chap who mister numbers thinks is a lazy slob. That's the problem. He assumes that everyone who is obese is obese because they are lazy.

Did you not read what he wrote?

RayCun

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Fat mam might aspire to be Hannah Nolan, but does she aspire for her daughter to be like that? If so, in a sporting context, she is accepting mediocrity.

You're not a parent yourself, right? I want my kids to enjoy sports, have a healthy lifestyle, and yes, challenge themselves. I don't aspire for my kids to be the best in the world, nor do I aspire for them to be plodders. I want them to be happy and healthy, and support them in their ambitions.

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Athletics is a competitive sport yet on the forum there seems to be a majority who believe kids will look up as much to an overweight women who did good as opposed to a world champion. Celebrating mediocrity.

No, what we are telling you is that people are inspired by people around them, more than by people on the telly. A parent active in a sport supporting their child in that sport is more of an inspiration than someone they've never met coming sixth in an Olympic final.

nerraw1111

tunguska wrote: »

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Disagree with this. We punch way above our weight. A nation of 4 million odd and yet compete in all major sports on par. Be it football, rugby, golf, athletics. it's not like France, Austria, Netherlands, Croatia etc are world beaters. While we should aim, should also be realists.

I don't think we as a country aim low in anything outside of sport either.

Plus Dublin are World Football champions.

Just proved my point thanks.

I did no such thing. It's being a realist.

There a reason why the top three medaling countries are who they are. And it's nothing
as you correctly point out with geography etc. Money and big populations however.

thirtyfoot

MrCreosote wrote: »

Last time I checked it was Athletics AND running (and tri) forum. Running doesn't necessarily have to be competitive. Just because it is for you doesn't mean that the rest of the running population thinks the same way.

And why shouldn't the magazine represent that?

I think the original discussion on this thread was is IR and the cover showing a 3:30 marathoner going to promote the sport and inspire people. One faction says it won't inspire people who see the sport as a competitive sport while another faction say it will who see the sport more as a lifestyle thing. So which should the IR appeal to and try inspire? We don't know as the IR doesn't know who its supposed to appeal to or represent.

tonyangelino

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Disagree with this. We punch way above our weight. A nation of 4 million odd and yet compete in all major sports on par. Be it football, rugby, golf, athletics. it's not like France, Austria, Netherlands, Croatia etc are world beaters. While we should aim, should also be realists.

I don't think we as a country aim low in anything outside of sport either.

Plus Dublin are World Football champions.

Look lets get the facts right here

1We are a nation of bandwagoners when we win at sports
2GAA is parochial and nobody else plays it
3Rugby is played by a cupla handfuls of decent nations only
4Trap will win us the European Championships:D
5We think all NI golfers are ours

RayCun

thirtyfoot wrote: »

I think the original discussion on this thread was is IR and the cover showing a 3:30 marathoner going to promote the sport and inspire people.

Surely the purpose of a magazine cover - any magazine cover - is not "to inspire people". It's to make people want to buy the magazine. And since the hard core readership will have subscriptions, the cover is necessarily aimed at more casual readers.
In the case of Irish Runner, most of the covers show elite athletes - people aiming for Olympic qualification or even medals.
Is it so shocking that sometimes it puts non-elites on the cover too? Like minor celebrities, who may be known to potential readers for non-running reasons? Especially when those minor celebrities finish in what, the top 100 women in the national marathon?

thirtyfoot

RayCun wrote: »

You're not a parent yourself, right? I want my kids to enjoy sports, have a healthy lifestyle, and yes, challenge themselves. I don't aspire for my kids to be the best in the world, nor do I aspire for them to be plodders. I want them to be happy and healthy, and support them in their ambitions.

No I am a parent, my son is currently in a camp for advanced sports toddlers in Moscow, I miss him. Don't think anyone is saying they want their kids to be the best in the world (see my earlier comment re Tiger Woods) but I think its good for kids to be competitive in sports, want to win, want to give 100%, be happy when they win, be sad and gracious and determined when they lose. This is what sport is all about for me. Even in your italics I sense you are saying its wrong for parents to push or encourage their kids. Pushy parents are like the Woods or McIlroys or Tennis parents, teaching a kid the true tenets of sport (winning, losing, hardwork, reward, honour, respect, bla bla) will stand for the rest of their life in sport and outside it. You could replace sport with any other interest a child may have.

RayCun wrote: »

No, what we are telling you is that people are inspired by people around them, more than by people on the telly. A parent active in a sport supporting their child in that sport is more of an inspiration than someone they've never met coming sixth in an Olympic final.

I read that and I hear mediocrity but that is ok. Think there is confusion here regarding inspiration and support. Every kid needs support from a parent but they also need an inspiration. Did you have any sporting aspirations when a kid? Mine was to win an Olympics 800 or 1500 the way Seb Coe used to win 800 or 1500s. I aspired to that, he (and others like Coghlan) inspired me. My parents supported me, they didn't inspire me.

thirtyfoot

RayCun wrote: »

Surely the purpose of a magazine cover - any magazine cover - is not "to inspire people". It's to make people want to buy the magazine. And since the hard core readership will have subscriptions, the cover is necessarily aimed at more casual readers.
In the case of Irish Runner, most of the covers show elite athletes - people aiming for Olympic qualification or even medals.
Is it so shocking that sometimes it puts non-elites on the cover too? Like minor celebrities, who may be known to potential readers for non-running reasons? Especially when those minor celebrities finish in what, the top 100 women in the national marathon?

As I said, don't really care about the IR, I'm indifferent as its irrelevant to me and my interest in the sport. They can put what they want on the cover. Even when elites are on the cover, its still irrelevant to me.

The part of this discussion that interests me is the concept that a 3:30 marathoner will inspire as much as an Irish World Champion.

myflipflops

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Out of curiosity, how much of this weight loss in down to diet versus exercise?

I would say 50/50, worked hard at them both.

I think completely over hauling my diet allowed me to do more exercise. I would have lost weight with the new diet on it's own, just at a very slow rate.

RayCun

thirtyfoot wrote: »

No I am a parent, my son is currently in a camp for advanced sports toddlers in Moscow, I miss him. Don't think anyone is saying they want their kids to be the best in the world (see my earlier comment re Tiger Woods) but I think its good for kids to be competitive in sports, want to win, want to give 100%, be happy when they win, be sad and gracious and determined when they lose. This is what sport is all about for me. Even in your italics I sense you are saying its wrong for parents to push or encourage their kids. Pushy parents are like the Woods or McIlroys or Tennis parents, teaching a kid the true tenets of sport (winning, losing, hardwork, reward, honour, respect, bla bla) will stand for the rest of their life in sport and outside it. You could replace sport with any other interest a child may have.

Pushing and encouraging are not the same things. I want my kids to take part in sports, and I want them to compete, so I encourage both. (It's noticeable in my club that the kids whose parents run are much more likely to compete than the kids whose parents don't) But you don't have to be like the Woods parents to teach a kid about winning, losing, etc, etc. If it's a choice between hothousing my kid so that one day he might be the 79th best tennis player in the world, and 'accepting mediocrity'... I know which one I'd pick. (But if either of my kids has that drive themselves, I'll support it as much as I can)

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Did you have any sporting aspirations when a kid? Mine was to win an Olympics 800 or 1500 the way Seb Coe used to win 800 or 1500s. I aspired to that, he (and others like Coghlan) inspired me. My parents supported me, they didn't inspire me.

Me? No.
How did you get into athletics in the first place? Was it by seeing Seb Coe on tv and thinking, "I want to be a 1500m runner", and going out to find a club, or were you already involved at that point?

RayCun

thirtyfoot wrote: »

The part of this discussion that interests me is the concept that a 3:30 marathoner will inspire as much as an Irish World Champion.

All of the covers of Irish Runner magazine should have photos of current Irish World Champion runners?

MrCreosote

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Even in your italics I sense you are saying its wrong for parents to push or encourage their kids. Pushy parents are like the Woods or McIlroys or Tennis parents, teaching a kid the true tenets of sport (winning, losing, hardwork, reward, honour, respect, bla bla) will stand for the rest of their life in sport and outside it. You could replace sport with any other interest a child may have.


I read that and I hear mediocrity but that is ok.

The problem with pushy parents is that we only hear about the successes, not the 1000's of kids who are f***ed up by their parents chasing some idiotic dream.

And if you "hear mediocrity" when someone says that they'd like to support their kids' interests without getting too pushy about it? The mind boggles- sounds like the typical "you can be the best at anything you want" bullsh*t thats pushed onto kids these days. You'd be better off grounding kids' unrealistic expectations from time to time.

The whole attitude is the typical one that nobody can get enjoyment out of a sport or hobby unless they're winning. Nothing wrong with that if that's how you feel about yourself, but a bit of a presumption to think that everybody feels that way.

formerrunner25

There is no way a 3.30 marathoner will inspire kids! However it is only the very best Irish athletes that will inspire kids, Coughlan, O Sullivan, O Rourke, Treacy, McKiernan to name a few.
Parents do not inspire kids, they simply support them.
Athletes will never inspire kids as much as soccer player, the media for soccer is so big, compared to athletics.
However when I was in my teens, it was O Sullivan rather than keane that would have inspired me. So I think it depends on your sport, If you're a big athletics fanatic growing up, it is the athlete that will inspire u, and not some woman who managed to lose 20 pounds

Pisco Sour

Enjoying this debate. It is a shame that some people get their knickers in a twist just because somebody presents an alternative controversial opinion (in this case the very fact that what I have said is considered controversial says a lot about today's society). A difference of opinion and a debate makes these threads worth reading. There's far too much political correctness, moralistic views and backslapping on A/R/T these days. The forum has become incredibly stale, repetitive, generic and pretty uninspiring at times. The more of these threads the better.

MrCreosote

04072511 wrote: »

Enjoying this debate. It is a shame that some people get their knickers in a twist just because somebody presents an alternative controversial opinion (in this case the very fact that what I have said is considered controversial says a lot about today's society). A difference of opinion and a debate makes these threads worth reading. There's far too much political correctness, moralistic views and backslapping on A/R/T these days. The forum has become incredibly stale, repetitive, generic and pretty uninspiring at times. The more of these threads the better.

Agree with this. Too many posters are prepared to accept threads that are mediocre. It's important that you can look back at any post and say "I did the best I could, I gave that 110%". Too many thanks being given to second-rate threads. After all, what's going to inspire the next generation of boards.ie users?

Pisco Sour

MrCreosote wrote: »

Agree with this. Too many posters are prepared to accept threads that are mediocre. It's important that you can look back at any post and say "I did the best I could, I gave that 110%". Too many thanks being given to second-rate threads. After all, what's going to inspire the next generation of boards.ie users?