luis suarez over praised, theo walcott slated

bookie basher

walcott has scored roughly the same amount of league goals and has more assists than suarez but he is regularly dismissed as brainless and having no end product yet suarez is regularly called world class, can the forum enlighten me on how suarez gets so much praise with such a poor goal return?

dahat

Football is not all about scoring goals..........:rolleyes:

Sappy404

bookie basher wrote: »

walcott has scored roughly the same amount of league goals and has more assists than suarez but he is regularly dismissed as brainless and having no end product yet suarez is regularly called world class, can the forum enlighten me on how suarez gets so much praise with such a poor goal return?

Suarez is a brilliant player playing in an average team.

Walcott is an average player playing in a better team.

Watch them play and make up your own mind.

luckyfrank

dahat wrote: »

Football is not all about scoring goals..........:rolleyes:

he creats more aswell as racist

Chucky the tree

Theo Walcott has Robin Van persie to get on the end of his chances, Suarez has Andy Carroll. I certainly know which one I'd rather have.

G.K.

The reason Walcott is slated is because, well, most of the time he DOES play without a brain.

Professional Griefer

Suarez isn't a headless chicken running around the place almost constantly losing the ball.

Suarez doesn't score enough, but how many times do you see him in the box, and with a simple turn, puts it through the defenders legs and is away.

Suarez is by far a better player, he just needs more goals. I can't stand watching Walcott, drives me mad, and i'm not even a arsenal fan.

G.K.

Walcott generally only plays well when the team does - he often gets lots of goals/assists at once, like the game against Blackburn.

jank

The truth?

Walcott isn't as bad as he is made out to be
Suarez isn't as good as he is made out to be

CSF

I agree that Suarez is over praised but Walcott deserves all the criticism he gets.

Oranage2

Arsenal fans expect more from their players -

I see post like 'Carroll is having a good game' when he manages to pass the ball to his own team mate.

Suarez is a slightly big fish in a small pond and having the likes or Adam and Downing makes him out to be a superstar. He'd struggle to get a starting spot in the top 5 teams.

CSF

Oranage2 wrote: »

Suarez is a slightly big fish in a small pond and having the likes or Adam and Downing makes him out to be a superstar. He'd struggle to get a starting spot in the top 5 teams.

Definitely overly harsh on Suarez. The likes of Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea would do very well to have him in their first 11. Not the 2 Manchester clubs though.

Reekwind

This is not going to end well

Look: There is no reason to directly compare Suarez and Walcott. They are different types of players playing in different teams that are in different form. Both are really interesting but to boil them down to a simple 'One is crap, the other is great' is pointless, stupid and playing to the worst sort of tribalism

cson

Messi said Walcott was one of the most dangerous players he'd ever played against

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/805925/ce/uk/?cc=5739&ver=global

G.K.

No, if anything Suarez is underrated imo. You don't be a starting forward for Uraguay and not be top class, when you have Cavani and Forlan as your opposition.

also Suarez walks into every top 5 EPL team imo.

Arsenal: Play him in any of the 3 behind RVP.
Chelsea: Play him on left or right, or up top with Mata behind
Spurs: Anywhere in the forward line
Manchester United: Better than Nani and any forward United have with the arguable exception of Rooney
Manchester City: Better than Nasri, Balotelli, Dzeko, Milner, Johnson, Toure (In an attacking capacity)

CSF

G.K. wrote: »

No, if anything Suarez is underrated imo. You don't be a starting forward for Uraguay and not be top class, when you have Cavani and Forlan as your opposition.

also Suarez walks into every top 5 EPL team imo.

Arsenal: Play him in any of the 3 behind RVP.
Chelsea: Play him on left or right, or up top with Mata behind
Spurs: Anywhere in the forward line
Manchester United: Better than Nani and any forward United have with the arguable exception of Rooney
Manchester City: Better than Nasri, Balotelli, Dzeko, Milner, Johnson, Toure (In an attacking capacity)

You definitely fall into the category of those people who overrate Suarez so. Unfortunate that it seems to go from the extremes of people who think he is the best thing since sliced bread, despite his extreme lack of end product, and those who automatically assume that because he isn't a 20 goal a season striker that he must be crap.

castletownman

They're both sh*te

Optimalprimerib

Oranage2 wrote: »

Arsenal fans expect more from their players -

I see post like 'Carroll is having a good game' when he manages to pass the ball to his own team mate.

Suarez is a slightly big fish in a small pond and having the likes or Adam and Downing makes him out to be a superstar. He'd struggle to get a starting spot in the top 5 teams.

I would take him at spurs in a heartbeat. I reckon he would be a good scorer for us as well.

kitakyushu

IMHO Suarez is a world class striker who has already proved himself at international level and somewhat for Ajax. If he looks bad at the moment that's probably down to the rubbish he has to play with on a weekly basis.

Walcott is brainless sort of a player who can run like the wind and dribble well but offers little else and worse doesn't seem to have improved much from when he burst on the scene six years ago.

steelcityblues

Fair to say that an Arsenal with Suarez and RVP, and Wilshere back, could challenge for the title.

Mr.Crinklewood

Thought I would have a quick look at the top Scorers. Unsure if these include today:-

Pos. Player Goals Team
1 Robin van Persie 26 Arsenal
2 Wayne Rooney 20 Manchester United
3 Sergio Agüero 17 Manchester City
4 Demba Ba 16 Newcastle United
5 Yakubu Aiyegbeni 14 Blackburn Rovers
6 Edin Dzeko 13 Manchester City
7 Grant Holt 12 Norwich City
7 Clint Dempsey 12 Fulham
9 Emmanuel Adebayor 11 Tottenham Hotspur
9 Mario Balotelli 11 Manchester City
11 Frank Lampard 10 Chelsea
11 Danny Graham 10 Swansea City
11 Steven Fletcher 10 Wolverhampton Wanderers
11 Javier Hernández 10 Manchester United
15 Jermain Defoe 9 Tottenham Hotspur
15 Darren Bent 9 Aston Villa
15 Peter Odemwingie 9 West Bromwich Albion
15 Gareth Bale 9 Tottenham Hotspur
15 Daniel Sturridge 9 Chelsea
20 Rafael van der Vaart 8 Tottenham Hotspur
20 Ivan Klasnic 8 Bolton Wanderers
20 Heidar Helguson 8 Queens Park Rangers
20 Steve Morison 8 Norwich City
24 Bobby Zamora 7 Queens Park Rangers
24 Peter Crouch 7 Stoke City
24 Dimitar Berbatov 7 Manchester United
24 Scott Sinclair 7 Swansea City
24 Danny Welbeck 7 Manchester United
24 Anthony Pilkington 7 Norwich City
24 Stéphane Sessegnon 7 Sunderland
24 Luis Suarez 7 Liverpool
32 Mikel Arteta 6 Arsenal
32 Craig Bellamy 6 Liverpool
32 Nicklas Bendtner 6 Sunderland
32 Theo Walcott 6 Arsenal
32 Shane Long 6 West Bromwich Albion
32 David Hoilett 6 Blackburn Rovers
32 Nani 6 Manchester United
39 Steven Gerrard 5 Liverpool
39 Didier Drogba 5 Chelsea
39 Jonathan Walters 5 Stoke City
39 Sebastian Larsson 5 Sunderland
39 Adam Johnson 5 Manchester City
39 Gabriel Agbonlahor 5 Aston Villa
39 Jamie Mackie 5 Queens Park Rangers
39 Thomas Vermaelen 5 Arsenal
39 Pavel Pogrebnyak 5 Fulham
39 David Silva 5 Manchester City
39 Juan Mata 5 Chelsea
39 Gylfi Sigurdsson 5 Swansea City

Source :- http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/premier-league/top-goalscorers.html

CSF

kitakyushu wrote: »

IMHO Suarez is a world class striker who has already proved himself at international level and somewhat for Ajax. If he looks bad at the moment that's probably down to the rubbish he has to play with on a weekly basis.

Walcott is brainless sort of a player who can run like the wind and dribble well but offers little else and worse doesn't seem to have improved much from when he burst on the scene six years ago.

Definitely not world class.

steelcityblues wrote: »

Fair to say that an Arsenal with Suarez and RVP, and Wilshere back, could challenge for the title.

No way. They're so far off it is unbelievable. Don't let a recent run of form fool you.

That_Guy

dahat wrote: »

Football is not all about scoring goals..........:rolleyes:

Fernando Torres, is that you?

citytillidie

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

Thought I would have a quick look at the top Scorers. Unsure if these include today:-

Pos. Player Goals Team
1 Robin van Persie 26 Arsenal
2 Wayne Rooney 20 Manchester United
3 Sergio Agüero 17 Manchester City
4 Demba Ba 16 Newcastle United
5 Yakubu Aiyegbeni 14 Blackburn Rovers
6 Edin Dzeko 13 Manchester City
7 Grant Holt 12 Norwich City
7 Clint Dempsey 12 Fulham
9 Emmanuel Adebayor 11 Tottenham Hotspur
9 Mario Balotelli 11 Manchester City
11 Frank Lampard 10 Chelsea
11 Danny Graham 10 Swansea City
11 Steven Fletcher 10 Wolverhampton Wanderers
11 Javier Hernández 10 Manchester United
15 Jermain Defoe 9 Tottenham Hotspur
15 Darren Bent 9 Aston Villa
15 Peter Odemwingie 9 West Bromwich Albion
15 Gareth Bale 9 Tottenham Hotspur
15 Daniel Sturridge 9 Chelsea
20 Rafael van der Vaart 8 Tottenham Hotspur
20 Ivan Klasnic 8 Bolton Wanderers
20 Heidar Helguson 8 Queens Park Rangers
20 Steve Morison 8 Norwich City
24 Bobby Zamora 7 Queens Park Rangers
24 Peter Crouch 7 Stoke City
24 Dimitar Berbatov 7 Manchester United
24 Scott Sinclair 7 Swansea City
24 Danny Welbeck 7 Manchester United
24 Anthony Pilkington 7 Norwich City
24 Stéphane Sessegnon 7 Sunderland
24 Luis Suarez 7 Liverpool
32 Mikel Arteta 6 Arsenal
32 Craig Bellamy 6 Liverpool
32 Nicklas Bendtner 6 Sunderland
32 Theo Walcott 6 Arsenal
32 Shane Long 6 West Bromwich Albion
32 David Hoilett 6 Blackburn Rovers
32 Nani 6 Manchester United
39 Steven Gerrard 5 Liverpool
39 Didier Drogba 5 Chelsea
39 Jonathan Walters 5 Stoke City
39 Sebastian Larsson 5 Sunderland
39 Adam Johnson 5 Manchester City
39 Gabriel Agbonlahor 5 Aston Villa
39 Jamie Mackie 5 Queens Park Rangers
39 Thomas Vermaelen 5 Arsenal
39 Pavel Pogrebnyak 5 Fulham
39 David Silva 5 Manchester City
39 Juan Mata 5 Chelsea
39 Gylfi Sigurdsson 5 Swansea City

Source :- http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/premier-league/top-goalscorers.html

How many of those have been banned for 5 league games?

Will I Amnt

citytillidie wrote: »

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

Thought I would have a quick look at the top Scorers. Unsure if these include today:-

Pos. Player Goals Team
1 Robin van Persie 26 Arsenal
2 Wayne Rooney 20 Manchester United
3 Sergio Agüero 17 Manchester City
4 Demba Ba 16 Newcastle United
5 Yakubu Aiyegbeni 14 Blackburn Rovers
6 Edin Dzeko 13 Manchester City
7 Grant Holt 12 Norwich City
7 Clint Dempsey 12 Fulham
9 Emmanuel Adebayor 11 Tottenham Hotspur
9 Mario Balotelli 11 Manchester City
11 Frank Lampard 10 Chelsea
11 Danny Graham 10 Swansea City
11 Steven Fletcher 10 Wolverhampton Wanderers
11 Javier Hernández 10 Manchester United
15 Jermain Defoe 9 Tottenham Hotspur
15 Darren Bent 9 Aston Villa
15 Peter Odemwingie 9 West Bromwich Albion
15 Gareth Bale 9 Tottenham Hotspur
15 Daniel Sturridge 9 Chelsea
20 Rafael van der Vaart 8 Tottenham Hotspur
20 Ivan Klasnic 8 Bolton Wanderers
20 Heidar Helguson 8 Queens Park Rangers
20 Steve Morison 8 Norwich City
24 Bobby Zamora 7 Queens Park Rangers
24 Peter Crouch 7 Stoke City
24 Dimitar Berbatov 7 Manchester United
24 Scott Sinclair 7 Swansea City
24 Danny Welbeck 7 Manchester United
24 Anthony Pilkington 7 Norwich City
24 Stéphane Sessegnon 7 Sunderland
24 Luis Suarez 7 Liverpool
32 Mikel Arteta 6 Arsenal
32 Craig Bellamy 6 Liverpool
32 Nicklas Bendtner 6 Sunderland
32 Theo Walcott 6 Arsenal
32 Shane Long 6 West Bromwich Albion
32 David Hoilett 6 Blackburn Rovers
32 Nani 6 Manchester United
39 Steven Gerrard 5 Liverpool
39 Didier Drogba 5 Chelsea
39 Jonathan Walters 5 Stoke City
39 Sebastian Larsson 5 Sunderland
39 Adam Johnson 5 Manchester City
39 Gabriel Agbonlahor 5 Aston Villa
39 Jamie Mackie 5 Queens Park Rangers
39 Thomas Vermaelen 5 Arsenal
39 Pavel Pogrebnyak 5 Fulham
39 David Silva 5 Manchester City
39 Juan Mata 5 Chelsea
39 Gylfi Sigurdsson 5 Swansea City

Source :- http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/premier-league/top-goalscorers.html

How many of those have been banned for 5 league games?

Ha
Berba has barely played 5 games.

Happy Monday

luckyfrank wrote: »

he creats more aswell as racist

Luis has been player of the year in the Copa America.
He also excelled at the WC 2010.
Walnuts can't even get into an average
Engerland team.
No comparison - Luis continues to excel in a poor LFC team.
When the Gooners were poor earlier in the season where was Walnuts then!?

That_Guy

Happy Monday wrote: »

Luis has been player of the year in the Copa America.
He also excelled at the WC 2010.
Walnuts can't even get into an average
Engerland team.
No comparison - Luis continues to excel in a poor LFC team.
When the Gooners were poor earlier in the season where was Walnuts then!?

This post hurts my eyes.

plasmaguy

Walcott is an athlete who runs up and down the pitch very fast, either with or without the ball.

Suarez is a soccer player.

Oranage2

Both slightly above average imo

sonic85

id have suarez in a heartbeat at arsenal. walcott only has one asset and doesnt even use it well.

suarez is a much better worker and has much more ability. not world class but in the tier of players just under that. id love to see him get a few more goals but thats something thats going to be really difficult in a shoddy liverpool team

DB10

Walcott is average, although he has played well recently.
Suarez is very good player, but a serial cheat.

Suarez is better. But he did cost 26 million so I expected him to be decent. I think though he may not be a good fit for Liverpool and may move clubs.

Adolf Hipster

G.K. wrote: »

No, if anything Suarez is underrated imo. You don't be a starting forward for Uraguay and not be top class, when you have Cavani and Forlan as your opposition.

also Suarez walks into every top 5 EPL team imo.

Arsenal: Play him in any of the 3 behind RVP.
Chelsea: Play him on left or right, or up top with Mata behind
Spurs: Anywhere in the forward line
Manchester United: Better than Nani and any forward United have with the arguable exception of Rooney
Manchester City: Better than Nasri, Balotelli, Dzeko, Milner, Johnson, Toure (In an attacking capacity)

Sorry but lol.

Happy Monday

That_Guy wrote: »

This post hurts my eyes.

Voted player of the tournament in a winning Uruguayan team last year at the Copa America with Messi, Neymar et al present.

Key part of the World Cup semi team a year earlier.

Walcott cant get into this faltering Engerland 11.

Mr.Crinklewood

citytillidie wrote: »

How many of those have been banned for 5 league games?

I`m not too sure how many of these players were given suspensions / injuries, etc.

I`m assuming that you are saying that Suarez has less goals because he has played less games, this got me thinking of the goals / games ratio for the players in and around Suarez in the goal stakes, below you will find a breakdown ( i`m open to correction on these btw, and they do not include

Crouch's

goal today. )


Goals Games Goal Ratio
20 Rafael van der Vaart 8 24 3.0
20 Ivan Klasnic 8 19 2.4
20 Heidar Helguson 8 15 1.9
20 Steve Morison 8 26 3.3
24 Bobby Zamora 7 21 3.0
24 Peter Crouch 7 24 3.4
24 Dimitar Berbatov 7 10 1.4
24 Scott Sinclair 7 29 4.1
24 Danny Welbeck 7 23 3.3
24 Anthony Pilkington 7 25 3.6
24 Stéphane Sessegnon 7 27 3.9
24 Luis Suarez 7 24 3.4
32 Mikel Arteta 6 26 4.3
32 Craig Bellamy 6 21 3.5
32 Nicklas Bendtner 6 23 3.8
32 Theo Walcott 6 28 4.7
32 Shane Long 6 24 4.0
Goals Games Goal Ratio
24 Dimitar Berbatov 7 10 1.4
20 Heidar Helguson 8 15 1.9
20 Ivan Klasnic 8 19 2.4
20 Rafael van der Vaart 8 24 3.0
24 Bobby Zamora 7 21 3.0
20 Steve Morison 8 26 3.3
24 Danny Welbeck 7 23 3.3
24 Peter Crouch 7 24 3.4
24 Luis Suarez 7 24 3.4
32 Craig Bellamy 6 21 3.5
24 Anthony Pilkington 7 25 3.6
32 Nicklas Bendtner 6 23 3.8
24 Stéphane Sessegnon 7 27 3.9
32 Shane Long 6 24 4.0
24 Scott Sinclair 7 29 4.1
32 Mikel Arteta 6 26 4.3
32 Theo Walcott 6 28 4.7


Same list put in order of games played:-
Goals Games Ratio
24 Scott Sinclair 7 29 4.1
32 Theo Walcott 6 28 4.7
24 Stéphane Sessegnon 7 27 3.9
20 Steve Morison 8 26 3.3
32 Mikel Arteta 6 26 4.3
24 Anthony Pilkington 7 25 3.6
20 Rafael van der Vaart 8 24 3.0
24 Peter Crouch 7 24 3.4
24 Luis Suarez 7 24 3.4
32 Shane Long 6 24 4.0
24 Danny Welbeck 7 23 3.3
32 Nicklas Bendtner 6 23 3.8
24 Bobby Zamora 7 21 3.0
32 Craig Bellamy 6 21 3.5
20 Ivan Klasnic 8 19 2.4
20 Heidar Helguson 8 15 1.9
24 Dimitar Berbatov 7 10 1.4

Ganymede Glow

Suárez wins Copa America with Uruguay winning player of the tournament and finishing second in the scoring charts.

Theo Walcott cant even get into an arguably worse England team who have no chance of winning...well anything really.

Headless chicken

Paul Tergat

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

Suárez wins Copa America with Uruguay winning player of the tournament and finishing second in the scoring charts.

Theo Walcott cant even get into an arguably worse England team who have no chance of winning...well anything really.

Headless chicken

Using international football as a barometer is pretty stupid

Ganymede Glow

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Using international football as a barometer is pretty stupid

Proves he's a better player

Will I Amnt

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

Suárez wins Copa America with Uruguay winning player of the tournament and finishing second in the scoring charts.

Theo Walcott cant even get into an arguably worse England team who have no chance of winning...well anything really.

Headless chicken

You're comparing their teams and not them.
What's the point in that?
Suarez:7th with Liverpool
Walcott:3rd with Arsenal
See?
For what it's worth,I think Suarez is a much better player but that's not the way to compare them.

Ganymede Glow

cambo2008 wrote: »

You're comparing their teams and not them.
What's the point in that?
Suarez:7th with Liverpool
Walcott:3rd with Arsenal
See?
For what it's worth,I think Suarez is a much better player but that's not the way to compare them.

If you're a manager and you get the option to buy one of Suárez or Walcott, are you trying to tell me you would not use what I've just said to help you decide? Is it not something you would look at?

BTW for the first half of the season Arsenal fans wanted shot of him

Paul Tergat

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

Proves he's a better player

Bs it does.

Messi has won nothing with Argentina. Has played generally pretty poor and has only 22 goals in 67 matches

David Villa has won both the world cup and euro's with Spain and has been leading the line in both these tournaments with 51 goals in 82 matches.

Who is the better player?

Insert Torres and what he's won at international level for an even more biased view.... see what i mean???

Ganymede Glow

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Bs it does.

Messi has won nothing with Argentina. Has played generally pretty poor and has only 22 goals in 67 matches

David Villa has won both the world cup and euro's with Spain and has been leading the line in both these tournaments with 51 goals in 82 matches.

Who is the better player?

Insert Torres and what he's won at international level for an even more biased view.... see what i mean???

We're not comparing anyone else, we're comparing Suárez/Walcott. It's only obvious you're going to look at what both have done at international level

Paul Tergat

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

We're not comparing anyone else, we're comparing Suárez/Walcott. It's only obvious you're going to look at what both have done at international level

Im showing you how its retarded to use international football to suggest one player is better than another. Club football is what is played every week and will tell you who is the better player. This is just fact.

Will I Amnt

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

If you're a manager and you get the option to buy one of Suárez or Walcott, are you trying to tell me you would not use what I've just said to help you decide? Is it not something you would look at?

No.I can tell that Suarez in a struggling Liverpool team is a better player than Walcott in an Arsenal team that have been playing well.
Why the f**k would you want to bother comparing how his international team is doing.
There's brilliant players in shìt international teams.

Ganymede Glow

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Im showing you how its retarded to use international football to suggest one player is better than another. Club football is what is played every week and will tell you who is the better player. This is just fact.

Fair enough. But if some people are having trouble separating them would you not agree that looking at their international records might separate them?

shadowcomplex

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Theo Walcott has Robin Van persie to get on the end of his chances, Suarez has Andy Carroll. I certainly know which one I'd rather have.

Suarez is a striker walcott is a midfielder

Paul Tergat

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

Fair enough. But if some people are having trouble separating them would you not agree that looking at their international records might separate them?

Meh at a push I guess. its not what you said though and now what i responded to....

Put it this way, you cant really choose you international team (in most cases). The fact that Walcott is with a **** English team is not his fault. The fact that Suarez is in a good Uruguay team is partly down to him but a huge part of it is down to having some quality players around him.

smokedeels

G.K. wrote: »

Manchester United: Better than Nani and any forward United have with the arguable exception of Rooney

Nani is a winger and there's nothing to argue about that fact that Rooney is in another league to Suarez.

Ganymede Glow

cambo2008 wrote: »

No.I can tell that Suarez in a struggling Liverpool team is a better player than Walcott in an Arsenal team that have been playing well.
Why the f**k would you want to bother comparing how his international team is doing.
There's brilliant players in shìt international teams.

Because it shows the extra bit of class in difference

gosplan

Most retarded thread in quite some time tbh.







It's obvious that the answer is 'because of the liverpool old boys club that make up punditry teams'

Will I Amnt

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

Because it shows the extra bit of class in difference

No it doesn't,I'm not even going any further with this,it's a silly point you're putting forward.

Ganymede Glow

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Meh at a push I guess. its not what you said though and now what i responded to....

Put it this way, you cant really choose you international team (in most cases). The fact that Walcott is with a **** English team is not his fault. The fact that Suarez is in a good Uruguay team is partly down to him but a huge part of it is down to having some quality players around him.

Doesn't say much for him if he cant get in it. Suárez is one of the main men in a better Uruguay team. You have just wrote my whole point in your post.

BTW people are still separating Messi and Maradona over international football