Government sending their goons door to door!

jay-me

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/council-staff-to-knock-on-doors-for-100-house-charge-3060116.html

ENVIRONMENT Minister Phil Hogan has ordered city and county councils to set up teams of staff to call to the homes of people who refuse to pay the €100 household charge.

In an attempt to increase pressure on the 1.3 million households that have yet to cough up, Mr Hogan has instructed councils to create so-called "household charge collection teams" and begin targeting offenders from Monday week, the Irish Independent has learned.

The councils will have to redeploy hundreds of staff to undertake the massive clampdown -- but it is unclear how this will work.

Thousands of council staff have left in recent years, meaning that workers are often assuming a number of extra responsibilities to fill gaps in services.

The Government has not allocated extra funding to employ workers on a part-time basis, and figures published last night suggested that hundreds of thousands of house visits are likely to be needed.

Just 328,000 of the 1.6 million households required to pay the charge by next Saturday (March 31) have registered, the Department of the Environment said.

Thousands of people are expected to attend a rally against the tax at the National Stadium in Dublin today, with at least 15 TDs and a number of trade unions advocating mass non-payment.
...

So now that we know if some goon we don't know calls to the door randomly we don't answer... And if we do answer what are they going to say? Can I have 100 euro please?... Eh no you can't I don't have it sorry....

Absolute disgrace!!! Probably cost more to have said goons doing this instead of whatever else it is they usually do...

Arnold Layne

Are they going to look for the 10 euro fine as well? I have six months to pay that, if I decide to pay.

I have a right to defend my property and will exercise it, if these people come calling.

Atlantis50

Arnold Layne wrote: »

Are they going to look for the 10 euro fine as well? I have six months to pay that, if I decide to pay.

I have a right to defend my property and will exercise it, if these people come calling.

Meaning what? Attacking council workers who call to your door?

meoklmrk91

Arnold Layne wrote: »

Are they going to look for the 10 euro fine as well? I have six months to pay that, if I decide to pay.

I have a right to defend my property and will exercise it, if these people come calling.

Defend your property from who?, innocent council workers who are being forced to do the dirty work of Phil Hogan and his cronies.

YeatsCounty

From the original article wrote:

They will not wear uniforms but will have to carry and produce photo identification.
.......
Come April 2, local authorities will start knocking on doors.

Yeah.....even with the required ID, this is like the friggin' Bat Signal for con men & small time criminals all over the country.

crazygeryy

Arnold Layne wrote: »

Are they going to look for the 10 euro fine as well? I have six months to pay that, if I decide to pay.

I have a right to defend my property and will exercise it, if these people come calling.

Jeez arnold that's a bit extreme isn't it.they are not coming to take your kids away.

In through the nose and out through the mouth.
10 times.

nkay1985

This is a joke. I'll quite happily delay any fcuker who comes to my door to try to get me to pay this ridiculous tax. It's just another step up in the government's attempts to frighten people as they're getting very scared at the numbers not registering. I can't imagine Phil Hogan will be very popular anywhere he shows his face.

This also begs the question of what the likes of Waterford City Council do, seeing as the council passed a motion opposing the Household Charge.

Jesus Wept

They are going to call on a lot of people who are renting. If they call more than once they will be told to kindly **** off.

But yes, even the fact they have suggested this makes it open season for con men. Lock up your old people.

Wibbs

I'll greet them politely, politely refuse to answer their questions and politely close my door in their faces. Imagine some pensioner living on their own getting an "official" visit? And before someone starts mewling about the "fooking pensioners", you'll be one one day, they've paid a lifetime of tax and a lot of the ones on their own are living in fear as it is.

YeatsCounty wrote:

Yeah.....even with the required ID, this is like the friggin' Bat Signal for con men & small time criminals all over the country.

Bingo YC. As expected the usual swivel eyed gombeens haven't really thought this one through

The council can fcuk right off pulling this intimidation bullshít.

And this is coming from someone much more on the pay it side of the argument, but some of the tactics they're pulling of late do not sit well with me. Oh I'll pay(unless they pull more BS), but now they're gonna have to spend time and money to get every red cent out of me.

Answer them better to streamline the councils and improve the sometimes(more like ofttimes)farcical waste* associated with far too many of them.





*A mates brother was on the accountancy/book keeping team for a large Dublin council that shall remain nameless and you would not believe some of it. No I'm serious, you really wouldn't.

DarkJager

I won't be intimidated by that fat arrogant bastard or his goons. If they do call to my door, they'll get 10 seconds to **** off before I treat them the same as any intruder.

latenia

So they're going to pick random people from their staff with no authority and no legal status and send them on a fishing mission in a pathetic attempt to intimidate people. This will end up costing them far more in overtime and expenses than it brings in. How exactly are they going to bring 1.3 million people to court?
FWIW 1,350 houses' 'charge' will be required to pay Bertie Ahern's basic pension this year.

pickarooney

Wibbs wrote: »

Bingo YC. As expected the usual swivel eyed gombeens haven't really thought this one through

Poetry!

JoeGil

Just pay your tax on time and you won't need to get worked up about anybody knocking on your door.

Tomk1

Yesterday Taoiseach Enda Kenny urged homeowners to pay, saying it was a "reasonable contribution" to help fund local services and the charges were lower than in the UK, where people paid up to €100 a month in council tax.

"This is a €2 charge per week and it's important that people understand that this has to be paid as a contribution toward providing services for people," he said.

Once you can get people to pay for something and they accept it, then you can increase it.

errrm what about the bin charges and proposed water tax. Also isn't it about the bailout package nothing todo with local-gov, another also what has it to do with the dept of environment?

I've had no problem with paying, but now after hearing this, that they what to pay people to go door to door and threaten house-holders with intimidating fines, sounds like some monarchy 18th century landload thing, if you can't pay you get fined, can't pay that, then what? jail or take your property.

Just scrap this whole idea, as it's beginning to sound like a real farce. I suppose it won't be the local councillors going door to door.

latenia

JoeGil wrote: »

Just pay your tax on time and you won't need to get worked up about anybody knocking on your door.

Maybe you'll be a bit more concerned in 5 years time when they'll be demanding €1500 instead of €100.

JoeGil

latenia wrote: »

Maybe you'll be a bit more concerned in 5 years time when they'll be demanding €1500 instead of €100.

Nobody can predict what if anything the charge will be in five years time.
However I also cannot expect to live off the fat of the land today for free and have a future generation pay of these debts in 5 or 10 years time.

DarkJager

JoeGil wrote: »

Nobody can predict what if anything the charge will be in five years time.
However I also cannot expect to live off the fat of the land today for free and have a future generation pay of these debts in 5 or 10 years time.

These debts are not ours.

JoeGil

DarkJager wrote: »

These debts are not ours.

If I avail of services and don't pay for them they become debts. They are my debts unless I don't pay them and pass them on to somebody else.

Hired goons?

bbam

latenia wrote: »

Maybe you'll be a bit more concerned in 5 years time when they'll be demanding €1500 instead of €100.

As you will too when your paying the fines on five years of unpaid tax at up to €1500. People are digging themselves into a big hole if they leave this unpaid for a number of years.

Show Time

Oh please please please let some poor sap be silly enough to knock on my door looking for the money.

mattjack

Hopefully they'll have lawnmowers to cut the green across from my house,equipment to clear drains and some rat catchers with them.All these little chores need to be done in my estate.

bbam

Show Time wrote: »

Oh please please please let some poor sap be silly enough to knock on my door looking for the money.

In fairness these guys are not to blame and are being sent out, just doing their jobs. If they are sent out to knock on doors they can't really refuse.
Abusing them over the tax is just showing your ignorance of how the system works. Your frustration should be directed towards government rather than a low level council worker who has no control over it and is just being sent out to do their jobs. Most probably won't want to be out getting crap shouted at them but have no choice.

JoeGil

mattjack wrote: »

Hopefully they'll have lawnmowers to cut the green across from my house,equipment to clear drains and some rat catchers with them.All these little chores need to be done in my estate.

The services that are being currently provided are at a level funded by € 100 per annum. If you want a higher level of services you will need to discuss the possibility of paying a higher annual charge with your local representative.

sioda

JoeGil wrote: »

If I avail of services and don't pay for them they become debts. They are my debts unless I don't pay them and pass them on to somebody else.

Nope these are not your debts these are debts run up by useless moronic councillors. Here in Limerick city the ex city manager has come out and said that the tax here will just be used to pay off existing debts and will not be used on ANY new services so Feic that.

Wibbs

bbam wrote: »

As you will too when your paying the fines on five years of unpaid tax at up to €1500. People are digging themselves into a big hole if they leave this unpaid for a number of years.

Fcuk it I'm willing to pay it, so long as they have to fight for every fcuking cent they get. I'm just tired of this shíte. I'm tired of the "ah sure roll over" attitude of far too many in this country when you're effectively paying for others mistakes. I'm tired of the "all hands to the tiller" bullshít we're been fed when few have a clue where to turn said tiller. I'm really fcuking tired of seeing those who would have a clue not being consulted. I'm sooo tired of the gargantuan waste of resources across the board while at the same time they're looking for more good money to throw after the bad. Fúck em and the horse mangy peat stained donkey they rode in on.

mattjack

JoeGil wrote: »

The services that are being currently provided are at a level funded by € 100 per annum. If you want a higher level of services you will need to discuss the possibility of paying a higher annual charge with your local representative.

I am living in an estate handed over to a council years ago.I haver never seen any council workers in the estate.They certainly don't maintain any of the green spaces,refused to come out after an out break of rats, (getting into houses and back gardens) and ignore rainwater gullys flooded over.

Wibbs

JoeGil wrote: »

The services that are being currently provided are at a level funded by € 100 per annum. If you want a higher level of services you will need to discuss the possibility of paying a higher annual charge with your local representative.

You actually believe this? Good zombie Jayzuz.

nkay1985

JoeGil wrote: »

The services that are being currently provided are at a level funded by € 100 per annum. If you want a higher level of services you will need to discuss the possibility of paying a higher annual charge with your local representative.

How were those services provided last year Joe? And the year before? And every year before where there's not been a household charge?

You're either very naive or have a big old spoon in your hand stirring up the pot.

JoeGil

mattjack wrote: »

I am living in an estate handed over to a council years ago.I haver never seen any council workers in the estate.They certainly don't maintain any of the green spaces,refused to come out after an out break of rats, (getting into houses and back gardens) and ignore rainwater gullys flooded over.

If you are not receiving any services then I agree you have a valid point to raise with your county council.
I live in a small village and between council workers and people on employment schemes there are at least 6 people maintaining services for the village and surrounding areas every day.

phill106

I hope i know when they are coming, tempted to answer the door buck naked...

Sorry government people, no money for clothes!

I bet the people doing the walk around will claim overtime, travel expenses, shoe expenses, need a new biro expense, steak dinner expenses etc etc.
Will cost more money to collect then they can receive.

JoeGil

nkay1985 wrote: »

How were those services provided last year Joe? And the year before? And every year before where there's not been a household charge?

You're either very naive or have a big old spoon in your hand stirring up the pot.

Nkay, these services funded by debt last year and the years before. That's why we have the huge national debt that's crippling the country.
We cannot go on like that anymore.

Ellis Dee

YeatsCounty wrote: »

Yeah.....even with the required ID, this is like the friggin' Bat Signal for con men & small time criminals all over the country.

Thank you for making that excellent point.:) You have done a public service. It is highly irresponsible of the Government to create this opportunity for gurriers to cheat old people in rural areas. My advice to them is never, ever open the door to people you don't know, take down the number of their vehicle if you can see it, and if they don't go away at once, call the Gardai.:D

mattjack

JoeGil wrote: »

If you are not receiving any services then I agree you have a valid point to raise with your county council.
I live in a small village and between council workers and people on employment schemes there are at least 6 people maintaining services for the village and surrounding areas every day.

Joe,I'm guessing there's probally two men emptying bins/steet sweeping on the streets in your village and the employment scheme is possibly CE/TUS doing a bit of tidy towns work.

Doom

Imagine been a Limerick city council worker calling to the Dundons to collect this charge :eek:

Doc Ruby

pickarooney wrote: »

Poetry!

Beat me to it, there's a good image to start the weekend on.

JoeGil wrote: »

The services that are being currently provided are at a level funded by € 100 per annum. If you want a higher level of services you will need to discuss the possibility of paying a higher annual charge with your local representative.

JoeGil wrote: »

Nkay, these services funded by debt last year and the years before. That's why we have the huge national debt that's crippling the country.
We cannot go on like that anymore.

I don't think many people would have difficulty paying taxes if there wasn't such chronic mismanagement of public finances by the public sector at every level, from the politicians on down. The comfortable days of riding on the back of banks acting more like casinos are over, time for some proper management.

JoeGil

mattjack wrote: »

Joe,I'm guessing there's probally two men emptying bins/steet sweeping on the streets in your village and the employment scheme is possibly CE/TUS doing a bit of tidy towns work.

Matt, some of it is probably tidy towns all right but the bin services are provided by a private company. I was just making the point that the services provided are visible.

bbam

Fine by me pal.
Wallow in your own **** to prove a point if you want to.
It's either this tax or an increase in PAYE. Anyone who at this stage thinks they're not going to be paying more tax over the next few years is a true idiot. How do people think the country will be funded? The standard of living we expect costs money to have, where is that money to come from. Then when people get sick they whinge cos the local hospital has been downgraded, or when their thick kid is in a class of 35 and the teacher hasn't time to spend with him so he can barely read and write by age 12.
We should be putting pressure for more jobs so people can afford their taxes and then further efficiencies in how the money is used. Refusing to pay tax just to stick it to the government is just stupid.

Wibbs wrote: »

Fcuk it I'm willing to pay it, so long as they have to fight for every fcuking cent they get. I'm just tired of this shíte. I'm tired of the "ah sure roll over" attitude of far too many in this country when you're effectively paying for others mistakes. I'm tired of the "all hands to the tiller" bullshít we're been fed when few have a clue where to turn said tiller. I'm really fcuking tired of seeing those who would have a clue not being consulted. I'm sooo tired of the gargantuan waste of resources across the board while at the same time they're looking for more good money to throw after the bad. Fúck em and the horse mangy peat stained donkey they rode in on.

Run_to_da_hills

Why dont they get these men to collect unpaid TV licenses at the same time, ie kill two stones with the one bird.

tigger123

Think this story is a bit of a red herring tbh, are they suggesting that office staff are redeployed knocking on doors and shaking a bucket? Can't see it happening.

dlofnep

I'll invite them in for a cup of tea, and hold them up half an hour so they can't bug anyone else.

Meauldsegosha

I don't envy the council workers if they have to do this. The abuse they'll get on some doorsteps will be vicious. I can't see them collecting too much. I image if people don't want to pay they won't pay.

There is also a safety issue if they do manage to collect anything they are open to being attacked or mugged.

Bullseye1

dlofnep wrote: »

I'll invite them in for a cup of tea, and hold them up half an hour so they can't bug anyone else.

Barry's or Lyons?

ninebeanrows

I think it is hilarious that so many of you are highly strung about this relatively small fee for house owners when the vast majority of you don't own a house!

dlofnep

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Barry's or Lyons?

Tesco brand. Times are tough dude!

wexie

JoeGil wrote: »

Matt, some of it is probably tidy towns all right but the bin services are provided by a private company. I was just making the point that the services provided are visible.

So hang on, you've got private citizens cleaning the streets and a private company collecting the bins? What services then are you waffling about?

The irish water infrastructure is horrible outdated and really poorly maintained, the roads are in an absolute state (unless you're travelling to or from Dublin).

It's been mentioned before, if the local councils start getting their budgetting in order and introduce some savings and efficiencies (like finding staff that will work more than 5 hours a day) maybe then I'll start considering funding some of these non existent services by means other than income tax, USC, roadtax etc.

Untill then I petty the poor council worker who has the nerve to come round here and I just pray I'll manage to contain my rage when I'm showing him the driveway wearing my steeltoe boots

Bullseye1

How about we cut out the waste before going back with hat in hand. The about of people who gladly give more money after bad in this country is shocking. Have you not read of the waste of tax payers money over the past ten years yet your happy to give them another €160,000,000.

People want to see real and legitimate changes in how government is run. This will be our one and only chance to achieve real and lasting change.

bbam wrote: »

Fine by me pal.
Wallow in your own **** to prove a point if you want to.
It's either this tax or an increase in PAYE. Anyone who at this stage thinks they're not going to be paying more tax over the next few years is a true idiot. How do people think the country will be funded? The standard of living we expect costs money to have, where is that money to come from. Then when people get sick they whinge cos the local hospital has been downgraded, or when their thick kid is in a class of 35 and the teacher hasn't time to spend with him so he can barely read and write by age 12.
We should be putting pressure for more jobs so people can afford their taxes and then further efficiencies in how the money is used. Refusing to pay tax just to stick it to the government is just stupid.

fishy fishy

JoeGil wrote: »

Nobody can predict what if anything the charge will be in five years time.
However I also cannot expect to live off the fat of the land today for free and have a future generation pay of these debts in 5 or 10 years time.

I'm assuming from your post that you don't pay tax.

Bullseye1

Might it be that they are relying on rent allowance, local authority employment...

Weathercheck wrote: »

I think it is hilarious that so many of you are highly strung about this relatively small fee for house owners when the vast majority of you don't own a house!

Doc Ruby

I posted this previously but its worth another go for the keep on taxin' brigade.

Time for a quick look at the joys of Irish public spending, courtesy of the Irish Times:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...301773607.html

CONSULTANTS HAVE been paid almost €17 million in relation to the development of a new Dublin regional sewage treatment plant, even though a site has yet to be selected for the facility.
A study published six years ago identified Portrane in north Dublin as the best site for the new plant which would be second in size only to the Ringsend sewerage works. However, Fingal councillors rejected the plan and ordered a review of the study.
The Greater Dublin Strategic Drainage Study was commissioned by Fingal on behalf of the four Dublin local authorities from the Dublin Drainage Consultancy, a consortium involving Hyder Consulting, and Dublin-based firms PH McCarthy Partners and RPS-MCOS. The published cost of the study in 2005 was €10 million. However, new figures released by Fingal now set its cost at €14.9 million.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...307765606.html

CLARE COUNTY Council has spent almost €4 million on a 450- metre “road to nowhere” in Ennis that has not seen traffic use it since it was completed more than two years ago.
In response to a Freedom of Information request, the council has confirmed that it has spent €3.71 million on the stretch of public road leading to the Information Age Park in Ennis.
This works out at €825,974 for every 100 metres. However, no traffic has used the road since it was completed due to the loss-making Shannon Development’s failure to complete the remaining 200 metres of the route leading to the agency’s information park.
The figures show that €2.78 million was spent on costs associated with the compulsory purchase order of the lands.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...310194953.html

MORE THAN €9 million in EU funding secured to assist redundant workers from computer giant Dell was not spent, more than three years after the employees lost their jobs.
It is now expected a significant proportion of the €35 million in funding to support and retrain 9,000 construction workers will also have to be returned to the European Commission because of a failure to meet deadlines for the funding.
Sinn Féin finance spokesman Pearse Doherty has called for an independent inquiry into the management and administration of the European Globalisation Fund projects for Dell, SR Technics and Waterford Crystal and for some 9,000 redundant construction workers.
Last October Minister for Education and Skills Ruairí Quinn acknowledged there was a problem of “maladministration” in the funds, which he said was by the “previous administration”.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...313204492.html

The Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht has confirmed that it is spending €56,413 to carry out a monitoring project on the natterjack toad that is found mainly in Co Kerry.
In response to a Freedom of Information request, the department also confirmed that it is also spending €54,500 on the first ever national study of the marsh fritillary butterfly.
The marsh fritillary is the only legally protected insect out of 12,000 Irish insects.
An expert on natterjack toads, Prof Mark Emmerson of Queen’s University Belfast, yesterday described the toad as an “iconic species”.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...308953779.html

ALMOST €9 million will be spent by Dublin City Council next year in relation to the development of the Poolbeg incinerator, which has been delayed for more than 18 months.
The contract between the council and the developers of the Poolbeg incinerator has been extended until February by agreement with both parties, the council has said.
The council is to spend €8.9 million next year, in addition to €34 million already spent on the 600,000 tonne facility, even though its future remains under review. The council also has a future liability of €23 million to pay in relation to the project.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...312795497.html

€650 million spent on unrealised projects

€30m

Children’s hospital
Some €30 million has been spent by the hospital board – mainly in fees to architects, engineers and other consultants or experts – in progressing its plans. The Government says a revised plan will be produced in the coming months.
€42m

Dart Underground
Plans and land acquisition for the Dart Underground have cost millions, but the project has been delayed indefinitely under the new capital spending plans.
€50m

Media Lab Europe
The high-technology “seed bed”, based in Dublin’s Liberties, was run jointly by the government and Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and was one of Mr Ahern’s most favoured projects. Founded in 2000, it went into liquidation a few years later, with consultants describing its output as “dismal”, “surprisingly weak” and “mediocre”.
€130m
PPARS
The HSE’s information technology project started small, at an estimated cost of €9 million in 1997, and ballooned to a cost of €130 million in 2004, before being put on hold by the Health Service Executive in 2007.
€55m

E-voting
Martin Cullen ordered more than 700 of the machines at a cost of €51 million, only to have them placed in storage in 2004 when security concerns emerged. Attempts to sell them have so far been unsuccessful.
€1.5m

Hospital co-location
Almost €1.5 million was paid in legal and financial costs associated with the now abandoned plans to develop co-located private hospitals. Project agreements for each of these hospitals expired in March 2011.
€44m

Decentralisation
Millions have been spent on acquiring sites for the Government’s decentralisation programme in locations where plans to transfer public service offices and State agencies have been either postponed or axed.
€18m Metro West
Millions has been spent on the design of this section of the Metro. It, too, has been shelved indefinitely as a result of cutbacks to capital spending plans.
€150m
Metro North
The decision not to proceed with the Metro North rail project as part of the 2012-2016 capital investment programme will cost the State more than €150 millionincluding compensation to the project bidders.
€100m

Bertie Bowl
Millions were spent on consultancy fees and the clearances of the Abbotstown development in preparation for a national stadium. Political opposition from Fianna Fáil’s coalition partners, the PDs, ultimately scuppered the project, although the FAI went on to relocate its headquarters at the site.
€42m
Thornton Hall
The Government spent €30 million acquiring land for the Thornton Hall “superprison”, which has been delayed indefinitely. A further €12 million has been spent on original plans for the prison and the Central Mental Hospital. Both designs have since been scrapped. Plans for a scaled-down version of the prison have also been long-fingered.
. . . and what €650 million could buy

185 SCHOOLS
+1 CHILDREN’S HOSPITAL
+1.5 AVIVA STADIUMS
+15 MILES OF LUAS TRACK


And thats just a(nother) lazy Saturday first page of Google search. Then you've the fun and games with social housing, with as much as a third of local authority budgets being spent on houses which are now more expensive than those on the open market.

Where I come from in Galway half the city was poisoned by cryptosporidium, YEARS AFTER THE MONEY WAS MADE AVAILABLE TO FIX THE PROBLEM. Who was fired? Nobody. Eyre Square ran millions over budget and became a national disgrace. Some roadworks up the way from me are now also millions over budget and six months overdue, choking the main traffic route for tens of thousands of people. Tens of millions more being blown on removing roundabouts and putting in useless traffic light systems, you can't drive a hundred meters within the city boundaries without hitting lights now. The list goes on and on and on.

Overturn the lot of them, disband the civil service, shake it out into something more modern, and watch the deficit vanish. To hell with this charge and the rest of the tax hikes until we get some accountability, efficiency, and proper management of public finances.

Bullseye1

Anyone notice a flurry of activity by their local authority to spend their budgets towards the end of the year? You know if they don't spend their budget by the end of the year they get less the following year. That tells you everything you need to know about the funding of local authorities and how they spend their budgets.