IVCA (The Vets)

RobFowl

The IVCA racing season starts this Sun at Batterstown.
I'll be doing a good few of the Sunday races so might see some of you there..

Calender (racing) here http://www.ivca.info/ivca2012/racing2012/racecal12.shtml

Main site here
http://www.ivca.info/

Pablo Rubio

Looking forward to this , my first year in the vets. Competing with some of my adversaries from years past:)

morana

I am marshalling...

Beasty

Wrinklies in lycra - not a pleasant thought

Not as bad as a wrinkly hippy sporting hi-viz and telling everyone where to go though ...

mc2000

good man RobFowl - did you get clearance from HQ to get out on Sundays - you're gonna love it, will give you a chance to unleash your formidable sprint.:pac:

@Beasty - great things are expected after you're good showing up in Dundalk.:cool:

VanhireBoys

Wish I lived in the East of the country now.....!

Beasty

mc2000 wrote: »

@Beasty - great things are expected after you're good showing up in Dundalk.:cool:

Unfortunately racing the ladies made me "peak" too soon - I have a feeling that Sunday may be a bit on an anti-climax ...

DirkVoodoo

Beasty wrote: »

Unfortunately racing the ladies made me "peak" too soon - I have a feeling that Sunday may be a bit on an anti-climax ...

Don't worry, they have all sorts of treatments for that nowadays. It's nothing to be ashamed of.

Beasty

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Don't worry, they have all sorts of treatments for that nowadays. It's nothing to be ashamed of.

Not worried at all - I believe someone who may (or indeed may not) have contributed to this thread already has access to all the required "resources"

LionofFingal

Tomorrow (Sunday 25th) first race of the IVCA 2012 racing league, hammerfest aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh still suffering from an acute case of FLB syndrome, to all buddies out there when I die tommow please spread my ashes over the 3 Sisters on the 8.30am Sat morning spin. My I RIP...........:eek:

Beasty

... the scene of the Lion's greatest triumph, of recent decades anyway. Bit slow off the mark here though LoF - first post 2 years after registering, and still beaten to it by RobFowl by nearly 2 days - perhaps a sign of things to come ...;)

bcmf

mc2000 wrote: »

will give you a chance to unleash your formidable sprint.:pac:

I prob wont get to race until later in the year so he may as well enjoy sprinting before he goes to his established role as my lead out man :P

Beasty

What a glorious start to the vets racing season, warm sunshine and relatively light winds all the way. 3 large groups, with RobFowl turning up with his newly installed Zipps (one of them the wrong way round mind), making his return. The Lion of Fingal managing to get in a break of 6 and finish 5th in his race

In terms of the middle race, I would guess there were 40 or so of us - pretty large by normal vets standards, although it was still a well ridden race with no major safety issues.

I hung around the back for most of the race. I never felt uncomfortable at any stage, and wanted to see what it was like when not putting in any effort at the front - I knew there were plenty in the group to do that. RobFowl and mc2000 were in the same group, and I think mc2000 managed to get involved in one failed break attempt.

2 guys did manage to escape and stay away on the final lap. Coming into the final straight I was right at the back, and given the size of the group there was no room to progress without movng into the wind so I left it until just after the 1km mark. I was all the way over on the right hand side of the road, but it was still congested. I was about to move through a gap which then looked like it was rapidly closing so I backed off. It opened up again and I managed to get through just before the line - I would guess around 10th place, but only one septuagenarian ahead of me - Sean Lally showing he has lost nothing over the winter taking 2nd place in the sprint, 4th overall

bcmf

Beasty wrote: »

newly installed Zipps (one of them the wrong way round mind)

I really really hope it was the front one that was the wrong round.............

Pablo Rubio

Good race today .Nice weather to start off my first race in the Vets League. Pretty well organised safe racing ,apart from few hairy little moments with brake levers in peoples backsides, and people on the wrong side of the road even after all the warnings shouted about oncoming traffic. Had a few digs up the road but didn't really have the legs today.Went a bit too early in the Gallop and Sean Lally came by just before the line......Deja Vu!!!!:o
All in all ,a good morning & looking forward to rest of the years racing.



Also noticed people emptying the water out of there bottle coming to the finish(don't really think it's necessary)........but, just a little bit more sensible than the throwing away of bottles in some of the open races recently:rolleyes:

mc2000

Cracking weather for the first race of the ivca season. I was in the middle dms with Beasty and RobFowl, good size bunch and good pace... I was feeling ok for first two laps and staying in the first third or so of the bunch... Didn't really have legs to try a dig or two (just coming off the back of trying to shake a few calf niggles... so that wasn't me you saw Beasty )... Last lap found it a bit trickier to stay up the bunch and was loitering at the back a bit... Not much room to move up and a hairy moment on the Trim rd after the Warrenstown inn where someone tried going for a non-existent gap in the middle of the bunch... Happy enough to roll in with the bunch at the finish.

36mile race, 23.0 mph avg (37kph in new money), avg hr 160, max hr 178... that was for the middle dms

morana

Enjoyed watching you from a corner!

Dan martin probably think i am a joke though. Leeuw van fingallen did a good ride...

Beasty

With a record turnout of nearly 150 last Sunday, next Sunday's race at Kentstown is likely to be changed to a DMS from a CP, on the back of a new rule that DMSs will be run whenever more than 100 riders sign-on

mc2000

That's a good call... In the Orwell / lucan/ usher / tiernans/ ucd league last year they switched to dms format when it went over 60 or 70 or so signing on... I much prefer Dms's anyway... It would be even better if they let us have single group dms's (e.g. Green-only dms as opposed to us always being put in with the [stronger group] whites).... There's enough in greens anyway to make a single group dms be as big as some of the Tuesday night dms's last year

Beasty

There's talk of restricting numbers, which is what happens in the Ulster CI open races. I guess it depends on the course also - 6 groups may be difficult on shorter courses with scratch possibly catching the slowest group. I also think they would need to even out numbers in the groups - there were only 11 scratch riders on Sunday up against 60 from Group E. The A/B race only had 27 riders, whereas we had getting on for 30 from each of groups C and D in the middle race

One other thought - some guys travel quite a way to race mainly in Leinster. Perhaps there could be consideration given to putting on a few more races in other provinces, perhaps on a Saturday to spread the load a bit (although it would be more hassle in terms of organisation), as well as opening it up to more vets

morana

This is something that i am thinking of alot myself. We, ci , should have an over 40's league in each of the province.

The way to proceed with this would be to have 6 ci licence holders to come together to form an association in the province and then to setup the races based along the lines of the ivca early start etc. membership could be charged up front and a club racing licence required.

I am sure lots of 40+ guys and 35 ish girls in the other provinces would enjoy this.

I suppose at this stage there should be a vets commission as the avr age of members is quite high.

The Crunch

morana wrote: »

This is something that i am thinking of alot myself. We, ci , should have an over 40's league in each of the province.

The way to proceed with this would be to have 6 ci licence holders to come together to form an association in the province and then to setup the races based along the lines of the ivca early start etc. membership could be charged up front and a club racing licence required.

I am sure lots of 40+ guys and 35 ish girls in the other provinces would enjoy this.

I suppose at this stage there should be a vets commission as the avr age of members is quite high.

Some great ideas there, Anto, but is there not a risk of duplicating the work of the IVCA, especially as they spread their wings a bit with races in Limerick, Dundalk and Longford last year?
Why not work with the IVCA to get them to look after 40+ racing in the provinces now there is a new spirit of cooperation between the associations?
I see the IVCA are showing a lot of interest in the Masters Road Worlds this year. Why not work with them to organise and select representative teams to this and the track worlds?
The likes of Swinand, Peelo and Wyley should have an international competitive outlet given, as you point out, the average of racers is on the high side.
(If you get that hip sorted I might select you, too!)

morana

The Crunch wrote: »

Some great ideas there, Anto, but is there not a risk of duplicating the work of the IVCA, especially as they spread their wings a bit with races in Limerick, Dundalk and Longford last year?
Why not work with the IVCA to get them to look after 40+ racing in the provinces now there is a new spirit of cooperation between the associations?
I see the IVCA are showing a lot of interest in the Masters Road Worlds this year. Why not work with them to organise and select representative teams to this and the track worlds?
The likes of Swinand, Peelo and Wyley should have an international competitive outlet given, as you point out, the average of racers is on the high side.
(If you get that hip sorted I might select you, too!)

yeah I wouldnt be inclined to step on their toes as they do alot of great work across all spectrums of cycling.

All bar the Austrian Races need a UCI licence so all CI vets can go without selection but it would be great to have a league promoted by an association for over 40's. Its easy enough for a club to have an over 40 event on the day of other races but to have an every Sunday would be the way to go.

the ****ing hip is a pain in the groin!

RobFowl

morana wrote: »

the ****ing hip is a pain in the groin!

Try knee pain !!!
It's as bad....

Beasty

Well my knee surgeon has just told me I can ride through the pain ...


... of listening to you two going on about your "war-wounds"

Beasty

morana wrote: »

Its easy enough for a club to have an over 40 event on the day of other races but to have an every Sunday would be the way to go.

I thought the rules were changed this year to allow 50+ masters races to be run in parallel with Open races, so I'm a bit confused as to how 40+ races could be run without a further rule change

The other thing to note is that the "masters" category strictly starts at 35 rather than 40. Although the IVCA are not constrained by UCI rules and definitions, so they can set the barrier at whatever level they like. If CI wanted to start "masters leagues", particularly as something to build up to European and World events, should it not accomodate those between 35 and 39 also?

The danger, of course, is that there are so many exceptional riders in their late 30s (and indeed early 40s) that it may the be dominated by the younger riders (which is why I think the 50+ category is a good idea;))

morana

Beasty wrote: »

I thought the rules were changed this year to allow 50+ masters races to be run in parallel with Open races, so I'm a bit confused as to how 40+ races could be run without a further rule change

The other thing to note is that the "masters" category strictly starts at 35 rather than 40. Although the IVCA are not constrained by UCI rules and definitions, so they can set the barrier at whatever level they like. If CI wanted to start "masters leagues", particularly as something to build up to European and World events, should it not accomodate those between 35 and 39 also?

The danger, of course, is that there are so many exceptional riders in their late 30s (and indeed early 40s) that it may the be dominated by the younger riders (which is why I think the 50+ category is a good idea;))

Maybe you have a point but a Vets only race could be run. Essentially as an association of CI it can run events anyway it sees fit It would be akin to a club league. The over 50's is a great idea but my thinking would be that these races would be an option to open races for the older guys. CI never adopted the masters cats as per UCI but I think it was mainly die to a lack of racing numbers at the time. those were the days of 4ooo members unlike today.

(slightly OT) I have been saying this quite a bit that CI has to look beyond the narrow focus of Racing as the majority of our mebers arent road racing cyclists. Moves are afoot to try broaden our appeal out as we speak

mc2000

Kentstown this Sunday, hopefully it'll be a DMS. I think this is a bit of a slog of a circuit, some nice long drags to catch you out if you're too much in the red going into the bottom of them... winds are forecast northerly on Sunday so the main N2 road could be a bit of a pig if you try a solo breakaway... nice wide straight road.... bunch can see you for miles... can see you suffering out in front as they leave you out there to fry....

...will RobFowl bring the bunch to its knees [or his knees]? ... will the Beast within the bunch manifest?.... thrilling stuff :pac:

Beasty

In I'm sure what must be a first, the IVCA have closed registration to their racing for 2012 for safety reasons - too many racers are turning up each week.

So any more wannabee vet racers will have to continue to serve their apprenticeship in the open races and club leagues for now.

morana

The Crunch wrote: »

Some great ideas there, Anto, but is there not a risk of duplicating the work of the IVCA, especially as they spread their wings a bit with races in Limerick, Dundalk and Longford last year?
Why not work with the IVCA to get them to look after 40+ racing in the provinces now there is a new spirit of cooperation between the associations?
I see the IVCA are showing a lot of interest in the Masters Road Worlds this year. Why not work with them to organise and select representative teams to this and the track worlds?
The likes of Swinand, Peelo and Wyley should have an international competitive outlet given, as you point out, the average of racers is on the high side.
(If you get that hip sorted I might select you, too!)

Not available for selection....huge fish to fry at the moment

Pablo Rubio

Good Race in Dundalk yesterday. Tough rolling course with plenty of headwinds and crosswinds.

Beasty

The Dick O'Brien CP turned into a DMS when over 130 signed on at Batterstown this morning. I was in the largest of the three races, the middle one with 56 or so racing

When I arrived the temperature was hovering around 2 degrees and it had not warmed up much by the time the races set off just after 9.15. 4 laps of the Green Sheds circuit. In such a large group I tend to be more comfortable where I have a bit of room, which is usually towards the back, which is where I stayed for a large proportion of the race

I managed to move up on the final gallop. About 8 riders were up the road and not to be caught. I found myself in a battle with a couple of others on the right hand side of the road, and there was another threesome fighting it out on the other side. I was too focussed on my immediate opponents, so have no idea where I finished in the end.

It was only heading back to the car to de-ice the feet (although it was an almost balmy 7 degrees by then) that I noticed I was on the small ring. I'd felt a bit earlier in the final lap that I was spinning out but thought it was simply the 55kph we were hitting, and thought nothing more of it! I'll await the results of the photo-finish to see if it may have made a difference...

RobFowl

Feckin cold this am ...
Started the race with Beasty et al but punctured after 20 k.
Fast aggresive racing in all 3 races today from what I saw.

mc2000

Twas tres parky alright on Sunday morn... I was in the middle dms with beasty and robfowl, managed to stay up in the first third of the bunch for most of it, had one or two little digs... Some hard sections where we were lined out a bit and if U lost the wheel on a few of the corners you were digging deep to get back on... Fair play to the lads who stayed away it wasn't easy in the wind... The sprint at the end had a few hairy moments some lads not holding their line at all... Happy to roll in with the bunch, was fairly tired after it... 45miles / 22.0 mph avg [felt a lot harder] / avg hr 160

Pablo Rubio

Certainly was cold , glad I packed the long finger gloves in my bag.Fair play again to the lads in the break, it's good to see positive attacking racing unlike in some of the open races (although I'd say Stamullen was nice and hard this weekend). Had a few goes myself and tried to get across to that break but didn't have the legs. It looked like they were gonna be caught at one stage but they pulled away again. Decided too stay up front coming into the finish and stay away from the "Hairyness!!! " and picked a low enough gear for the uphill finish. Went early when a guy from Sundrive Track opened up the gallop and hopped on his wheel and waited till someone came by on the right and hopped on again. Took the bunch sprint for 9th place in the end, but got there safe so kinda happy to do that....... Enjoyable racing!!!!

P.S. Brendan Culleton has a few nice snaps of the races up on the IVCA website. See bottom Right hand corner for Brendan Culleton Photos Tab .

Kebel

Well done, which race were you in ? I was in the Yellow / Black race and likewise we had planty of agressive riding with lots of attacking. Ultimately the race was decided by a strong 4 man group who got away on the 3rd lap, I managed to clip across to join them so was pleased to "open the account" for this year / pick up a few points .

nilhg

Just watching the guys race up by my house here this morning, tough conditions in that wind and not much shelter around here.

Beasty

Temperature started at around 5 degrees increasing to 7-8, but the windchill took it nearer to zero. Accuweather is currently showing NNEastery at 48kph with gusts up to 71kph - it was tough out there today

97 signed on - 3 short of the magic number that would have turned it into a DMS, so we ended up with the first vets CP of the season (I think a lot of us would have preferred a DMS, particularly given the conditions). Perhaps 15-18 or so in our group - the 3rd of 6 off, and heading straight into the wind

Most of the group declined numerous invitations to take a turn at the front, and with one guy heading up the road (presumably oblivious to CP protocol), for a lot of the time until we were caught (when we were down to 9 I think) 3 of us did most of the work.

Some of the scratch guys came past us on the 3rd (of 4) lap and ploughed on ahead. Some of us managed to regroup on the hill round the back of the course before being caught by another large group. I managed to hang on until the same hill on the last lap. I was slightly detached, but thought I may get back on during the descent (on one lap I'd created a gap with the group just freewheeling down that hill - clearly benefiting from a combination of my weight and a very aero bike;)), but 2 cars got between me and thr group putting paid to that and I came in just behind that group. I'm not sure how many from my group were ahead at the end - at least 2 were, including the guy who broke away, and I know the other 2 who did most of the work were behind me - there's an outside chance I was 3rd in my group which would get me my first "bonus" point of the year

Overall, probably my toughest ever race, with the strong winds and over 600m of climbing, but thoroughly enjoyable (in hindsight at least!) nonetheless.

nilhg

I didn't know this was on today or I'd have made an attempt to get a few pics, I met the cars on my way home in the tractor this morning, 3 of the more senior Vets first followed by another car with 5 or 6 slightly younger fellas followed at a distance by a bigger bunch, don't know whether that was your first lap or not. Was the big branch still across the road? I'd rang my neighbour to clear it but it must have been hairy there if it was.

I met a big group a little later when I was heading out for a spin myself, things were a bit more stretched out by then, it must have been getting on towards the finish at that stage.

Beasty

nilhg wrote: »

I didn't know this was on today or I'd have made an attempt to get a few pics, I met the cars on my way home in the tractor this morning, 3 of the more senior Vets first followed by another car with 5 or 6 slightly younger fellas followed at a distance by a bigger bunch, don't know whether that was your first lap or not. Was the big branch still across the road? I'd rang my neighbour to clear it but it must have been hairy there if it was.

Slowest group (of only about 6) went off around 9.15, with a larger group a few minutes later, then us, and the 4th group probably was the largest

There was no branch there on the first lap, but we were warned a bit ahead during the second - there was a marshal there by then and your neighbour was there with the chainsaw - there was just a bit of debris on the road by then (some of the earlier groups may have encountered it though). Thanks for phoning him, and to him for sorting it out

Pablo Rubio

Did this today myself ,good hard course. Started off in the white group.From early on it was evident we were gonna be caught. A couple of us (guys from Swords cc , fixx Rouleurs & cuchulainn). tried to get the up and overs going but to no avail .Was actually quite disorganised with Guys switching from inside without warning , and guys sitting up just as the were about to go on the front disrupting the chain. Found the going quite tough on the last time up the Hill(Thanks to that guy for clearing the Tree Branch off the road). Nothing left in the Tank when I crossed the line and was glad to see that the Local club had organised Tea & Sambo's at the finish, Thanks Guys , well appreciated!!

Another enoyable but tough race. Thanks to the marshalls and those who give up their time to organise these races.

Beasty

The problem with the vets CPs is there seems to be an expectancy amongst most groups that they will be caught, so a number of riders just sit on, saving something for the inevitable catch

However there was certainly one CP lat year when Groups A to D stayed away, and one when I think some in Group B remained up the road

The Group I'm in (C) does not seem to have any confidence to try and work together (with a few notable exceptions). The problem is exacerbated by one or two riders who will never take a turn at the front, but will inevitably be there at the end to pick up a few points as first, second or third unplaced from the group. I find it a bit of a contrast with the Swords League, where a much higher proportion (but certainly not everyone by any means) will at least try to contribute and get the up and overs going. One of the issues I guess is there is not much of an incentive in terms of League points from staying away with the vets as you still get some for simply being in the first few in your group, whereas all points in the Swords go to the first 10 across the line, from whatever group.

TBH, the numbers turning up which have forced all but today's race into a DMS has probably made the vets racing quite a bit better (and perhaps less predictable) than in previous years

mc2000

This was a bloody hard race today... I honestly thought they were going to run a dms even though they were 3 short of the 100 needed... It's too hard a course for a cp I think, I don't see the benefit in watching scratch slice through the race as if we were standing still (I was in greens)... Anyway I started off with greens with Beasty et al... Beasty doing a fair amount of work with two or three others, fair play Beasty that was hard graft... I wasn't going too near the front in that bloody wind, and I was finding it hard going as it was... I didn't have much in the legs at all when the small three-man group from scratch went by like a train (that was after we'd been caught by whites) and when the main yellows group went by on the top of the hill of the third lap I was cooked... Hung on for maybe a km or so but legs were screaming and dropped off the back on the draggy bit before the start-finish line... Went on to do the final lap on my todd, and thank god a group went by me and I went around the last lap with them... I was ker-knackered when I got back to the car .... Thanks also to to nihlg for sorting out that tree.

nilhg

No need to be thanking me for sorting the tree folks, I didn't even know ye were there at that stage, that's just the thing you do, if something needed to be sorted here my neighbour would ring me.


Anyone care to explain DMS and CP?


Interestingly I see quite a few new fast times up Boston Hill for today on Strava (including me on my way home:D), that wind was doing some good;).

Keep_Her_Lit

DMS : Divided Mass Start
CP : Chase Pursuit

In each case, riders are grouped according to ability.

For a DMS, each group has its own race, without regard for the other groups. So the fastest group goes off first and all the riders in that group race against each other. Then the next fastest group goes off a few minutes later and does likewise. Unless something goes wrong, the groups should never meet each other, though it is conceivable that the scratch (fastest) group could catch the limit (slowest) group on a course with a short lap, if there are a sufficient number of laps in the race.

For a CP, the groups leave in the reverse order, slowest first, fastest last. It's a handicapped race and the first rider across the line is the overall winner. So each group is chasing the group ahead of it and it is in their interest to work together until all groups in front have been caught. Then the real racing can begin.

Beasty

Also in a CP it's in the interests of the slower groups to stay away to try and take all the spoils. If the fastest groups catch them they are unlikely to produce the winner in a sprint. Hence, in theory at least, the slower groups should work to stay away, and if and when they combine with other groups, their critical mass will hopefully make the larger group a bit faster which helps keep the faster riders at bay.

In an ideal world, everyone in the group will contribute to the workload (either to catch the groups ahead, or stop those behind catching them) - unfortunately this is where it all tends to go a bit pear-shaped;)

manwithaplan

Keep_Her_Lit wrote: »

though it is conceivable that the scratch (fastest) group could catch the limit (slowest) group on a course with a short lap, if there are a sufficient number of laps in the race.

Just out of interest, if this did happen, would it be considered poor form for stronger limit riders to try to hang on to the scratch group in order to escape their competitors?

Beasty

manwithaplan wrote: »

Just out of interest, if this did happen, would it be considered poor form for stronger limit riders to try to hang on to the scratch group in order to escape their competitors?

It's a separate race, so I would say so - it's akin to a break being paced at the front by a team car guess

Pablo Rubio

One of the guys had a bit of a nasty fall today I heard.Has anyone any news on this ...involved a tractor I heard? I hope he's okay !!

dub56

He came down as we overtook a number of tractors on drag into the wind,luckily
enough it was the slowest part of the race.I think he bumped off one of the tractors and fell. The ambulance was there very quickly as it was following the race.I heard he has a shoulder injury .There were a lot of vintage tractors on the road today,must have been a show on somewhere.
Otherwise great racing and all came together for a bunch finish.