willow coppicing setup

El Kabong!

Hi,

I want to set aside some space on my smallholding for willow coppicing for fuel.

Let's assume I set aside 1 acre.
Let's assume I harvest at 4 years, so .25 acre/year, after year 4.


I want to reduce the outlay, so I was wondering if I could plant .25 acre and after 1 year take enough slips to plant up another .25 acres?

Going by my little harvesting chart this would mean I could have a nice rolling system in place.



If this is possible, do you know what density/how many willow I would need for .25 acres?


2nd question: Do you think I could get enough slips from .25 acres, after 1 year, to plant up the remaining .75 acres?

Thanks.

bbam

Hi..
I've done a small bit round the house so I'll pass on what I've experienced...

1,
At year 1 you won't be taking slips but rather coppicing back to the ground to encourage multiple stems to shoot up..

2,
Unless you are on extremely fertile ground you will need 5 years to harvest from the coppice at year 1 that leaves 6 years to the first harvest for firewood, particularly for the first harvest anyway, subsequent harvests may work at 4/5 years.

3,
A good vigorous willow will grow enough to produce about 5 18inch setts for replanting, going by that you should get enough from the initial coppice to fill the remainder of your plot.

4,
Spend the money up front and buy from a reputable supplier who has an extremely vigorous hybrid willow setts suitable for coppicing. This was the only time I've been disappointed with Future Forests, I tried 4 varieties from then which were all poor to establish or grow.. Check these out for exceptionally good setts. http://www.bowhayestrees.co.uk/index.html

5,
Longer setts establish much better, particularly in ground not cleared of grass.

6.
Willow are often quoted as being a good choice to put up a quick wind break.. That's rubbish, they are useless as a wind break, in the initial years anyway..

El Kabong!

Hi,

Thanks for that. I'm not clear on point 3.

Do you mean that if I plant .25 acre, and after year 1 cut it back, and after 1 more year I should get enough setts to plant up the remaining .75 acres?

bbam

No on good ground they will put on about 7-8 feet of growth in their first year from setts. This should give you 5 setts to replant.

El Kabong!

Sorry for being thick....

If I was planting 1 acre, I would purchase 2000 1 foot unrooted setts.

So if I buy 500 and plant .25 acre
After 1 year I should be able to cut back, but get 500x5 setts, wich is 2500, which is more than enough to plant up .75 acre.

No? Yes?

If I only need to purchase 500 setts, then is it too late to plant this year? I assume I have up until about May but the earlier the better.

Oldtree

I tried sets without removing grass and majority of Willow failed due to slugs eating new leaves, about 50% Poplar survived. I now prefer to root sets on a cleared mound of mud and transplant year two which seems to give them a better start, from previous experiments.

bbam

Yes start with 500 and you should manage fine from that.
If you can spare the cash go for longer setts as they will compete better with grass and slugs.
Some suppliers will have setts in chillers and be able to supply them into May, but yes sooner the better.

El Kabong! wrote: »

Sorry for being thick....

If I was planting 1 acre, I would purchase 2000 1 foot unrooted setts.

So if I buy 500 and plant .25 acre
After 1 year I should be able to cut back, but get 500x5 setts, wich is 2500, which is more than enough to plant up .75 acre.

No? Yes?

If I only need to purchase 500 setts, then is it too late to plant this year? I assume I have up until about May but the earlier the better.

El Kabong!

Well I will be ordering 500 3foot setts from BowHayesTrees. I have marked out the section of the land too.

I plan on strimming the grass right down and using an earth auger with a 3-4inch bit to drill the holes.... and put in the setts with 60cmx60cm mulch mat(mypex) around them, and then put the strimmed grass back over it. 3footx3oot spacing.

Any issues with that?

Boardnashea

El Kabong! wrote: »

I plan on strimming the grass right down and using an earth auger with a 3-4inch bit to drill the holes.... and put in the setts with 60cmx60cm mulch mat(mypex) around them, and then put the strimmed grass back over it. 3footx3oot spacing.

Any issues with that?

I would be just knocking them into the ground - with a spade or mallet if neccessary rather than drilling.
And my next planting will be maybe 75cm spacing but more between the rows - maybe 2M.
Best of luck with the project. You'll have more than enough to complete the acre after a couple of years at most.

El Kabong!

Well, after some messing about on the land I have decided to just get 2foot setts as they only need to go in a spade depth. The 3foot need another 3-4 inches. They are coming in 1-2 weeks so I have to get the grass cut down as best I can in the meantime!

reilig

El Kabong! wrote: »

Well I will be ordering 500 3foot setts from BowHayesTrees. I have marked out the section of the land too.

I plan on strimming the grass right down and using an earth auger with a 3-4inch bit to drill the holes.... and put in the setts with 60cmx60cm mulch mat(mypex) around them, and then put the strimmed grass back over it. 3footx3oot spacing.

Any issues with that?

Just one thing that you need to be careful of when buying plants from places like Bow Hayes Trees. Could you check close to home to see if there is any willow growing which you might be able to take cuttings from. £200 - £300 is a lot of money to lay out on willow and it might not all grow. Native willow to your own area stands a much better chance of growing than setts which are grown in really fertile soil in the uk. A cutters costing no more than €30 and half a day's labour could save you a lot of money.

El Kabong!

I have no idea! I haven't seen willow being grown locally. I'm in Co. Dublin so I suspect there isn't that much with in a reasonable distance.

I'm willing to give a hybrid from specialists like BowHayes a try. If year 1 fails I will just start again!

bbam

reilig wrote: »

Just one thing that you need to be careful of when buying plants from places like Bow Hayes Trees. Could you check close to home to see if there is any willow growing which you might be able to take cuttings from. £200 - £300 is a lot of money to lay out on willow and it might not all grow. Native willow to your own area stands a much better chance of growing than setts which are grown in really fertile soil in the uk. A cutters costing no more than €30 and half a day's labour could save you a lot of money.

No. Don't waste your time doing that.
The willow from the side of the road will grow but pitifully slow compared to the specialist varieties.
I'd estimate 3 times the growth which is what you need fir a wood production system. I've no affiliation to them but tried 5 types of willow on my clay site and they were the only ones to establish and put on about 14/16 feet of growth in two years.
I think the 2 ft setts are perfect.

Oldtree

EK

There may be a good reason why there is no willow in your hinterland, such as disease. It must be remembered that willow is fairly hardy and spreads its seeds by wind so can get everywhere. There is a serious problem with rust (umong other things) in ireland and it is most evident at the start of july when the wild willows leaves start to dry up and brown the landscape.

The reason for trying to source local willow that is doing well (not necessarily roadside) is just that, it is doing well in your area.

bbam

Why did your other 4 willows fail? There are many reasons why slips fail but it would seem imprudent to me to suggest to a poster that planting only one type of willow is the only route to take based on one experience. Usually it is prudent to plant a number of different willows, as should a disease strike it may only hit some of the plants and not a total wipeout.

You do not know very much about the posters site or situation. I have planted a serious poplar grower about 500m from the sea and while it lived it formed a nice bush, grows 9-10 foot easy when in the right site.

Bosco's clone

If anyone can help out again, I have a similar idea in my head. I am thinking of quarter of a acre with 1200 trees on it. It seems alot more than discussed here. This is the link that gave me the idea http://hedges.ie/freefuel.html It is a little pricey but I like the idea of the plastic matt, a good way to keep growth down around the young trees. I promise I will cut it out after a few years and it will go in farm plastic recycling.

My land is pretty good. Good drainage and the willow should grow well.

Any help or ideas are welcome, plus ideas where to get the willow setts.

El Kabong!

edit: I misread...

I am planting 500/ quarter acre so 1000/acre which is about the same as you.

That is alot of mypex/sheeting and will be expensive.

I would also take note that you have to put 10-12 inches into the ground. It is not easy to do this by hand, especially through mypex.

A lot of places are talking about commercial planting where the ground is prepared and you can just push it in 1 foot..... good luck with that.

My wife and I spent 2-3 days over the winter planting up 500... digging each hole, putting the willow and a bamboo cane in, and putting a spiral one. We broke a spade doing it and were very tired.

I get my willow from mammoth willow in the UK

Oldtree

I have collected cuttings from local willows that have looked like good growers and disease resistant over the last 10 years and now produce my own sets from coppiced plants.

I didnt use plastic or weedkiller. The grass was trampled down while I was "planting". The spacing I used was about 2m between rows and 1.5m between plants. I did 5 rows of 30 sets in decreasing size set to see what would happen, 3 foot down to 1 foot. The taller sets were thicker too.

I pushed the sets into the ground during the winter in the middle of a wet spell when the ground was soft, wearing a thick glove, and they went in ok. I have heard of a rubber hammer being used to bang them in. They went in about 7 inches or so on average.

having checked up on them this week to see how they were progressing - the taller sets have had no problems as the grass has not reached where the leaves are sprouting. The smaller ones that the grass has grown up to and covered have been attacked by slugs/snails and been damaged but still have some leaves. I have gone through and trampled the grass down around these shorter sets to see if they recover.

Next year I will only be planting 3 foot sets.

there are many sets available online.

Durty Diesel

Hi, re willow cuttings, I'd happily pay a few shillings for somebody to cut & wrap up 100 3 foot cuttings of well established fast growing willow. Any takers please give me a buzz on - o eight seven 2276 179
I can organise collection from anywhere in Ireland.