Sectarian abuse of Armagh player

BQQ

THE Armagh county board has claimed that alleged racist abuse and "partitionist" provocation have been directed at their players without any punishment being meted out by the GAA.

http://www.herald.ie/sport/armagh-accuse-gaa-of-not-acting-on-racist-and-partitionist-abuse-3056951.html


So, what's your view? Is this acceptable?

IMO, It's not and neither are a lot of other things said and done to provoke people on a football field, but I don't see any way to police it as it's generally off the ball stuff and one person's word against the other.

DDC1990

I don't think any abuse by players to get an edge is acceptable.

Thing is McKeever is a man of many words himself, and is a big fan of throwing the odd word or 10 in the ear of an opponent. Looks someone got under his skin and he lost it.

Don't see how calling someone a "British Bastard" is any different from shouting "I ****ed your sister last night" or going on about someones dead relatives. Its hateful and should be cut out, but realistically never will.

Also calling it Racism raises another question. When is something racist these days? If Im called a Kerry prick, is that Racist? Being called British is now termed racist, even if the person is Irish? Its like someone calling a white person black and that being racist?

Confusing.

nordydan

As someone from the north, how is this sectarianism? He should quit whinging.

Working in Dublin this Brit stuff I hear all the time from the Dubs. I give as good as I get to the Jackeens. Most of them were molested by Tony Walsh and his mates anyway. Up in the Phoenix park. Tied to a tree. You gotta feel for them.

Only a bit of craic ffs. We're going to relegate Armagh at the weekend anyway. An Dun abu

Galwayguy35

nordydan wrote: »

As someone from the north, how is this sectarianism? He should quit whinging.

Working in Dublin this Brit stuff I hear all the time from the Dubs. I give as good as I get to the Jackeens. Most of them were molested by Tony Walsh and his mates anyway. Up in the Phoenix park. Tied to a tree. You gotta feel for them.

Only a bit of craic ffs. We're going to relegate Armagh at the weekend anyway. An Dun abu

Everyone is different. It might not bother you but it obviously annoyed him someone calling him a Brit when he is Irish.

millhouse11

I allways thought that northern ireland was part of the uk anyway

Galwayguy35

millhouse11 wrote: »

I allways thought that northern ireland was part of the uk anyway

So you think the GAA players in the north should start calling themselves British then?

nordydan

Which player was it? Was it the Kerry lad who changed counties?

harpsman

Billy sheehan. Was calling Kevin cassidy a british b*stard last year. bit of a moron.
Are Armagh the biggest shower of whinging bullies in gaelic football. Remember a few years ago when Kerry gave McGeeney bit of his own medicine they were cryin like babies too.
Just heard Conor Deegan on newstalk whingin bout how 6 county players were "sensitive", then following up by saying they used to call protestants "black bastards". Hilarious

J Cheever Loophole

nordydan wrote: »

As someone from the north, how is this sectarianism? He should quit whinging.

He? McKeever? What did he say when he whinged? I haven't seen any quotes from him.

harpsman wrote: »

Remember a few years ago when Kerry gave McGeeney bit of his own medicine they were cryin like babies too.

No I don't remember that - remind me.

As for the actual issue, I wasn't there but I'm led to believe it did happen, the ref heard it and other than choosing to ask the culprit to refrain, chose to do nothing. I know the Armagh ones felt that what happened in the tunnel was nothing more than a bit of handbags, but unfortunately McKeever now appears to be a marked man (from the point of view of officialdom). It's a pity that McKeever didn't remind the offender that he was playing for the Queen's County!!

I definitely wish though that we had not raised this through the media - it comes across as sore losers - although I personally believe that there is an ulterior motive to publicising this.

harpsman

2006 all ireland qf,details basically what i said above

J Cheever Loophole

harpsman wrote: »

2006 all ireland qf,details basically what i said above

Crying like babies? Don't think so. Beat by the better team - things got quite feisty during the game and both sides stood their ground and gave it. After that, congratulations to Kerry and a recognition that our greatest ever team was really finished.

The impression you give is of someone from a county who has been on the receiving end of a few defeats from Armagh. A chip on your shoulder so to speak!

DDC1990

I remember that game very well, and while things got heated as you say.

Galvin lost the rag, and John Toal acted the bollox, after the game Armagh took the defeat well and got on with it no crying.

Billy Sheehan is a mouthy f-er alright.
Some people on another Gaa forum using the fact that he's originally from Kerry to have a go at Kerry. Sad really.

McKeever is a big boy, he gives as good as he gets. Its just a pity the way this has come out.

bruschi

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

He? McKeever? What did he say when he whinged? I haven't seen any quotes from him.



No I don't remember that - remind me.

As for the actual issue, I wasn't there but I'm led to believe it did happen, the ref heard it and other than choosing to ask the culprit to refrain, chose to do nothing. I know the Armagh ones felt that what happened in the tunnel was nothing more than a bit of handbags, but unfortunately McKeever now appears to be a marked man (from the point of view of officialdom). It's a pity that McKeever didn't remind the offender that he was playing for the Queen's County!!

I definitely wish though that we had not raised this through the media - it comes across as sore losers - although I personally believe that there is an ulterior motive to publicising this.

totally agree with the bolded bit above.

Players will say what they can to try rile up the opposition. If McKeever is going to act like that and Armagh call it racist (never knew being British meant you were of a different race, maybe someone who has experienced actual racism should have a word with the Co board who issued the statement), then its going to happen more often on them because it made him react in the manner it did.

Every county has some sort of slagging to put against it.

Theres only 2 things to come from Wexford, knackers and strawberries, and you dont look like a strawberry
Kilkenny pi$sed on the gunpwder in 1798 and ruined the rebellion
There was only one rebel from Cork and you shot him
Jackeens, sheepstealers, biffos etc.

Personally, I'm not one for that kind of crap. I prefer to keep quiet and go about my own game, rather than try provoke opposition. But there are far far worse things that can be thrown at players other than being called British. As said above, McKeever should have responded in turn if it was going like that, not kick the player.

ciarriaithuaidh

Couple of things here.
1. Can't believe McKeever would take this with more than a pinch of salt...Don't see how it can be termed "sectarian" either. Lost count of the amount of times I was called a "southern so & So" or "free-state %$&*" by Nordies over the years, was that sectarian?

2. McKeever himself is one of the worst offenders in the category of verbal abuse...constantly winding up opponents every way he can. Filthy to boot aswell, dropping knees onto opponents etc. Only heightens the irony.

3. Would love to be a fly on the wall in the Laois dressingroom if this is discussed, given who their manager is! The alleged instigator is well known for stupid thrash talking and stuff like this, so it didn't surprise me to hear it.

4. IMO, far more important an issue will get lost here..another episode of verbal and (apparently bordering on, at least) physical abuse of a match official..and seemingly Armagh are contesting it aswell? When are we going to see an end to this kind of sh*t?

J Cheever Loophole

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Couple of things here.
1. Can't believe McKeever would take this with more than a pinch of salt...Don't see how it can be termed "sectarian" either. Lost count of the amount of times I was called a "southern so & So" or "free-state %$&*" by Nordies over the years, was that sectarian?

None of us know the context that this was said within the tunnel - if it was repeated to him ad nauseum, then I would expect him to show restraint. If it was screamed into his face, then everyone has a breaking point. People have also referred to it as racist which it clearly is not. Such references as 'British b*****d' would be construed as sectarian up here.

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Couple of things here.
2. McKeever himself is one of the worst offenders in the category of verbal abuse...constantly winding up opponents every way he can. Filthy to boot aswell, dropping knees onto opponents etc. Only heightens the irony.

Mc Keever is a knave, no doubt, but he is a damned good footballer as well. Show me a successful county that doesn't have a knave or two in their ranks? As for your point about irony - show me where McKeever complained about the abuse? He complained about the sending off - different matter entirely. If the Armagh County Board have gone down this road, don't blame the player - he has consistently shown an ability to give it and take it and to get on with it.

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Couple of things here.
3. Would love to be a fly on the wall in the Laois dressingroom if this is discussed, given who their manager is! The alleged instigator is well known for stupid thrash talking and stuff like this, so it didn't surprise me to hear it.

Justy has already provided comments on the issue that do Ciaran McKeever no favours. A bit of context here - the loss of Ciaran McKeever for the two remaining fixtures is huge for Armagh - it is no exaggeration to say that his absence could be the difference between relegation and survival. In that context, McKeever getting sledged, reacting, sent off and subsequently suspended would all be very much in Laois's own survival interests.

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Couple of things here.
4. IMO, far more important an issue will get lost here..another episode of verbal and (apparently bordering on, at least) physical abuse of a match official..and seemingly Armagh are contesting it aswell? When are we going to see an end to this kind of sh*t?

I wasn't at the match, so I cannot comment. However I know the performance of the referee outraged every Armagh person that was present. Furthermore, it is alleged that the 'sledger' was told on more than one occasion to refrain from what he was saying by the ref and his linesman, but no punitive action was taken. The referee apparently refused to give an explanation for the bizarre circumstances of the sending off, hence the reaction of Paul Grimley. Paul has accepted the charge of verbal abuse of the ref, but is vehemently denying the charge of intimidation.

nordydan

harpsman wrote: »

Billy sheehan. Was calling Kevin cassidy a british b*stard last year. bit of a moron.
Are Armagh the biggest shower of whinging bullies in gaelic football. Remember a few years ago when Kerry gave McGeeney bit of his own medicine they were cryin like babies too.
Just heard Conor Deegan on newstalk whingin bout how 6 county players were "sensitive", then following up by saying they used to call protestants "black bastards". Hilarious

I'd say Sheehan has a few identity issues of his own!

This is ridiculous, if they weren't Irish they wouldn't be competing in All-Ireland competitions. Just a bit of craic

Kerrydude1981

Dunno what to make of this,McKeever likes the rough and tumble on the field but it seems he cant take the banter,put the toys back in the pram and move on,maybe it was the ref that fired the abuse at him while he was been hounded by McKeever and his manager coming off the field.

harpsman

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

Crying like babies? Don't think so. Beat by the better team - things got quite feisty during the game and both sides stood their ground and gave it. After that, congratulations to Kerry and a recognition that our greatest ever team was really finished.

The impression you give is of someone from a county who has been on the receiving end of a few defeats from Armagh. A chip on your shoulder so to speak!

From Donegal,plenty of beatins from a much better team. No chip on shoulder,just sayin Armagh seem well able to dish out physical and verbal abuse but seem bit touchy bout getting any back. seems to be symptomatic of "the wider republican community" as they call it.
And there definately was some whinging about the treatment McGeeney got from Kerry that time.
PS how stupid would you have to be to get wound up by some idiot calling you a British B.

J Cheever Loophole

harpsman wrote: »

From Donegal,plenty of beatins from a much better team. No chip on shoulder,just sayin Armagh seem well able to dish out physical and verbal abuse but seem bit touchy bout getting any back. seems to be symptomatic of "the wider republican community" as they call it.
And there definately was some whinging about the treatment McGeeney got from Kerry that time.
PS how stupid would you have to be to get wound up by some idiot calling you a British B.

From Donegal - I understand now your antipathy towards that Armagh team. That Armagh team - and indeed this one - were / are renowned for giving it out and being able to take it. For what it's worth, it wasn't any of the players that went to the press over this.

And by the way....

harpsman wrote: »

Armagh seem well able to dish out physical and verbal abuse but seem bit touchy bout getting any back. seems to be symptomatic of "the wider republican community" as they call it.

....jaw dropping stuff. I'm at a genuine loss as to what your angle is there.

Clareman

Players will always say stuff to each other to try to get an edge, you get it even when playing astro turf soccer, well in the games I play you do anyway, even a game of pool can be dragged down to name calling, sometimes unfortunately sometimes the name calling can hit a bit of a nerve and can go too far.

thewildcat

i heard today that its one of the backroom staff of the laois team said it
not Billy Sheehan.

anyway no place for that in the game Laois seem to have a history with this carry on over the years which is sad.

i know if a player called me a british bast.ard i'd break his jaw, bet he wouldn't be as smart to say it on the streets of belfast or Derry on a saturday night

bcb1

A sorry development in a shameful episode for the county. Major questions need to be asked of the county board.

Joint Statement by Armagh and Laois County Boards
22 March 2012

The statement reads:
"A meeting of representatives of Armagh and Laois County Boards took place today to discuss last Sunday's Allianz League Football game in O'Moore Park, Portlaoise.

It was agreed that allegations made by Armagh County Board in their statement do not accurately reflect what occurred in O'Moore Park.

It is acknowledged by both Boards that inappropriate verbal exchanges took place between players during the game and this will be addressed with our respective panels.

Both Laois and Armagh are committed to the playing of our games in the best possible spirit and look forward to the continuation of a keen, sporting rivalry."

theoneeyedman

Man Armagh come out of this episode really badly.

Using inflamatory words such as 'sectarianism' and 'racism' for what appears to have been little more than trash talking, to defend a player for taking the bait and getting himself sent-off, is very serious IMO, especially now when these claims turn out to be unfounded. This to me is more serious than some of the offences punisihed heavily by the CCCCCCCCCCC or whoever recently, e.g. the fining of Monaghan GAA and loss of home advantage for recent handbags in a league game. IMO the Armagh co board or its officials should be disclipined over this incident IMO. I've had great time for McKeever as a player before this but ths incident really tarnishes him, and if he things he was wound up before this i suspect he is in for more of it from now on

rpurfield

bit of a mad episode all this to be honest, i remember reading colm o'rourkes autobiography and he said in it taunts of fee state bas***d were regular in away league games up north in his day, id imgine thered be a degree of the opposite down here at times too.

solarith

This is like insulting a white man by calling him white.

GAAman

I am just going to come out and say this, This is a pile of bullshít. When the incident happened the armagh crowd were on record in the Irish News as saying they had no clue what the sending off was about, that there was no trouble leading to it etc

Now suddenly "Well actually he called me this and that" It is crap, and if anything armagh or mckeever individually should be punished for this.

Hesh's Umpire

An apology from Armagh County Board would be a start. They threw the muck, knowing well some of it would stick and now retract the allegations.

J Cheever Loophole

Hesh's Umpire wrote: »

An apology from Armagh County Board would be a start. They threw the muck, knowing well some of it would stick and now retract the allegations.

Well, if you reckon, on the basis of that statement last night, that Armagh have withdrawn their claim that sledging took place along the lines of 'British B*****ds' and 'God Save The Queen', then I believe you are mistaken.

That statement last night was a carefully crafted piece of work. There is nothing in that statement - given the language used - that says that the use of sledges such as 'British B*****ds' was not used.

The statement last night refers to "allegations made by Armagh County Board in their statement do not accurately reflect what occurred in O'Moore Park."

I don't have the original statement to hand, but if it referred for instance to racist abuse, then we have already established here that that was inaccurate, and on that basis alone, allegations made by the Armagh County Board already do not accurately relfect what occurred in O'Moore Park. Even the charge of sectarian abuse could be argued to be inappropriate in the context of calling Armagh players 'British B*****ds'. Again therefore we have something in the original statement that does not accurately reflect what occurred in O'Moore Park.

The phrase 'do not accurately reflect' could mean absolutely anything.

The statement goes on to say that "It is acknowledged by both Boards that inappropriate verbal exchanges took place between players during the game and this will be addressed with our respective panels."

That is still consistent with claims of the use of phrases and sledges as detailed here.

It is my understanding that Croke Park were furious with Armagh for going on 'a solo run' to the press on this. The fall out has been negative publicity for the Association and in the world of publicity and attracting sponsorship and investment, words like racist and sectarian will have sent alarm bells ringing in the corridors of power.

I cannot say that I know what happened in the meeting that concluded with this statement. However, the impression I get is that Croke Park issued a bollocking and the participants were told to issue that statement to close the matter, or else.

NiallFH

millhouse11 wrote: »

I allways thought that northern ireland was part of the uk anyway

Technically it is yes but this is still the island of Ireland, we are able to claim Irish or British citizenship. I myself do, I have an Irish passport not a British one and if anyone asks my nationality, I say Irish.

Some twat saying 'oh your not Irish your British' isnt going to change it.

The issue itself I would say isnt a big deal but where it is taking place makes it worse, just sets a bad example.

Hesh's Umpire

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

However, the impression I get is that Croke Park issued a bollocking and the participants were told to issue that statement to close the matter, or else.

Great. It's fantastic that no players from Laois will be called "free state b***ards" any more!

J Cheever Loophole

Hesh's Umpire wrote: »

Great. It's fantastic that no players from Laois will be called "free state b***ards" any more!

Yes indeed, if that's what you see, why not?

harpsman

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

Well, if you reckon, on the basis of that statement last night, that Armagh have withdrawn their claim that sledging took place along the lines of 'British B*****ds' and 'God Save The Queen', then I believe you are mistaken.

That statement last night was a carefully crafted piece of work. There is nothing in that statement - given the language used - that says that the use of sledges such as 'British B*****ds' was not used.

The statement last night refers to "allegations made by Armagh County Board in their statement do not accurately reflect what occurred in O'Moore Park."

I don't have the original statement to hand, but if it referred for instance to racist abuse, then we have already established here that that was inaccurate, and on that basis alone, allegations made by the Armagh County Board already do not accurately relfect what occurred in O'Moore Park. Even the charge of sectarian abuse could be argued to be inappropriate in the context of calling Armagh players 'British B*****ds'. Again therefore we have something in the original statement that does not accurately reflect what occurred in O'Moore Park.

The phrase 'do not accurately reflect' could mean absolutely anything.

The statement goes on to say that "It is acknowledged by both Boards that inappropriate verbal exchanges took place between players during the game and this will be addressed with our respective panels."

That is still consistent with claims of the use of phrases and sledges as detailed here.

It is my understanding that Croke Park were furious with Armagh for going on 'a solo run' to the press on this. The fall out has been negative publicity for the Association and in the world of publicity and attracting sponsorship and investment, words like racist and sectarian will have sent alarm bells ringing in the corridors of power.

I cannot say that I know what happened in the meeting that concluded with this statement. However, the impression I get is that Croke Park issued a bollocking and the participants were told to issue that statement to close the matter, or else.

"Dig up stupid"..."i love the leader"

bcb1

JCL, as much as I would like to say that Armagh shouldn't apologise, I think it is at a stage now where the only way they can save face is by doing it. They made a monumental cock up here. The reality is that for every northern british bastard there is a free state mexican **** and that is the way it has always been. In recent times there has been far too much of an attitude to taking the game outside the confines of the pitch. The reality is that GAAman is absolutely correct on what he says. Straight after the match there were comments that they didn't know why McKeever was sent off. I am sure they knew at that stage what had happened or if they didn't they should have asked the referee. They are entitled to know this information. If they were aware of what had happened they should have gone through the proper channels and brought it to CP straight away. Instead they went off on a crusade which has back fired very badly. IMO whoever was responsible for this episode be it committee member, management or player should be removed from their position. This has done untold damage to the reputation of the county who are now the laughing stock of the country.

Rebelheart

millhouse11 wrote: »

I allways thought that northern ireland was part of the uk anyway

I always thought the average Meath bogman was part of the UK prior to 6 December 1922. So who are you, with your British grandparents, to look down on the fine and noble people of Sliabh gCuillinn, people who were speaking Irish long after the average British Meath bogman took the soup and turned to the Queen's English?

J Cheever Loophole

BC - I regret that the original statement was issued, and the subsequent joint statement has only compounded that regret.

The nature / wording of that second statement means that an awful lot of people mistakenly believe that there was no 'British b*****d' style sledging taking place, when in fact it did take place as originally claimed. The problem appears to have been with allegations that there was chanting of that nature going on, when this was clearly not the case. That is definitely a matter of regret.

However I see no issue with 'Armagh ones' asking why McKeever was sent off, as quoted in Monday's Irish News, and then detailing the allegations of sledging in the original statement on the matter. There was a timeline of at least 24 hours between those Irish News quotes being taken, and the original statement being released.

bcb1

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

BC - I regret that the original statement was issued, and the subsequent joint statement has only compounded that regret.

The nature / wording of that second statement means that an awful lot of people mistakenly believe that there was no 'British b*****d' style sledging taking place, when in fact it did take place as originally claimed. The problem appears to have been with allegations that there was chanting of that nature going on, when this was clearly not the case. That is definitely a matter of regret.

However I see no issue with 'Armagh ones' asking why McKeever was sent off, as quoted in Monday's Irish News, and then detailing the allegations of sledging in the original statement on the matter. There was a timeline of at least 24 hours between those Irish News quotes being taken, and the original statement being released.

I have no issue with them questioning the sending off(and subsequent events with the ban being lifted justify that) I do however have grave concerns about the strategy(or lack of it) that was employed and I would question whoever took the lead in it. The reality is they should have made a statement along the lines of "we are investigating the circumstances surrounding the incident and have grave concerns about the events that led to our player being sent off. Once we have completed these investigations we will consider our position." They hadn't even receoved the refs report at that stage and when it did become available then they would have realised that he was sent off on a technicality. They just blunderbusted ahead with no rhyme nor reason t what was happening and left the whole thing an unholy mess.

Anyway, the story has ended and CMcK is free to play against the real enemy, the men in red and black and how I would love to go to the shop down the street tomorrow after beating thon hoors.

DDC1990

bcb1 wrote: »

I have no issue with them questioning the sending off(and subsequent events with the ban being lifted justify that) I do however have grave concerns about the strategy(or lack of it) that was employed and I would question whoever took the lead in it. The reality is they should have made a statement along the lines of "we are investigating the circumstances surrounding the incident and have grave concerns about the events that led to our player being sent off. Once we have completed these investigations we will consider our position." They hadn't even receoved the refs report at that stage and when it did become available then they would have realised that he was sent off on a technicality. They just blunderbusted ahead with no rhyme nor reason t what was happening and left the whole thing an unholy mess.

Anyway, the story has ended and CMcK is free to play against the real enemy, the men in red and black and how I would love to go to the shop down the street tomorrow after beating thon hoors.

Wait CmcK is free to play?

Was the ban lifted?

Did they give a reason?

EDIT: So it seems. But only pending an investigation. I presume he'll still get 2/4 matches depending on his disciplinary record over the last year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/northern-ireland/17494053

theoneeyedman

What a mess.....and this suspension of the suspension only makes it worse s it appears armagh are rewarded for this bull**** story by getting their player back last night. Will this work for everyone from now on e.g . Offaly man gets sent off and claims he reacted to being called a biffo etc............

J Cheever Loophole

theoneeyedman wrote: »

What a mess.....and this suspension of the suspension only makes it worse s it appears armagh are rewarded for this bull**** story by getting their player back last night. Will this work for everyone from now on e.g . Offaly man gets sent off and claims he reacted to being called a biffo etc............

Calm down petal! McKeever was sent off on the word of the fourth official. The referee can only take advice from his linesmen and umpires and therefore the fourth official's account should not have been considered by the referee, and thus McKeever shouldn't have been sent off at all. We consequently lost our best player and were a man down for half of a match against a fellow relegation threatened opponent. :rolleyes:

The good news is that McKeever was imperious last night as Down swarmed forward looking for an equaliser. :cool: We're still, in the mire, but we may yet avoid the drop!!

DDC1990

Thing is, he'll be missing for the first round of Championship now if he gets the suspension maybe more.

Not great news for Armagh.

theoneeyedman

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

theoneeyedman wrote: »

What a mess.....and this suspension of the suspension only makes it worse s it appears armagh are rewarded for this bull**** story by getting their player back last night. Will this work for everyone from now on e.g . Offaly man gets sent off and claims he reacted to being called a biffo etc............

Calm down petal! McKeever was sent off on the word of the fourth official. The referee can only take advice from his linesmen and umpires and therefore the fourth official's account should not have been considered by the referee, and thus McKeever shouldn't have been sent off at all. We consequently lost our best player and were a man down for half of a match against a fellow relegation threatened opponent. :rolleyes:

The good news is that McKeever was imperious last night as Down swarmed forward looking for an equaliser. :cool: We're still, in the mire, but we may yet avoid the drop!!

This ,4TH official stuff is just a vehicle to overturn the suspension.....typical gaa solution tbh and part of the behind closed doors dealing that goes on ....I'll eat my hat if he misses the tyrone game

User Friendly

My brother,who is from Clare played senior football the last 2 years in the North was called a mexican almost everytime he played for the local club where he lived, we spoke about it and laughed it off as sledging,:cool:

Armagh Gaa. have none of your county men ever used this term when referring to a southern player playing in your leagues? same question for any other northern team:cool: