We will soon see the death of our beloved RF100 form :(

MidlandsM

well, it was only a matter of time and I heard of confirmation of it on national radio yesterday that the use of the Rf100 is going to cease later this year.

No longer will you be able to go down to the local cop shop and get the olde' el stampo!

Soon, you'll be obliged to inform the Gardai when you intend to take your vehicle off the road in the future, like the SORN system in the uk.

If you don't, when you got to re-tax your vehicle and there's no trace of you informing your car was off the road, you'll have to pay the full back tax for whatever period it was untaxed.

It'll be a sad day to see it go. RIP RF100 ........I'll miss ya :pac:

Atomic Pineapple

Current system is far too open to abuse to be fair, and these days the abuse is rampant, something was always going to give.

CiniO

I can't really see any point in changing it.

The same people who now avoid paying tax, drive a car, and then declare it was off the road, will be able to declare it off the road and then drive it.
I can't see any difference.

Ofcourse probably penalties when caught driving a declared car will be more severe, but what's the point in changing the whole system to achieve this. WOuldn't it be easier just to increase penalties for driving untaxed vehicle in the current system?

Our man in Havana

A simple transfer of ownership will wipe out any arrears. You will start seeing cars with crazy amounts of owners on them.

They need to change the system so that a car cannot be sold if there is outstanding tax owed on it. If I went to sell my car here, the authorities check to see if there is tax outstanding and if there is the sale is halted until a receipt for the owed tax is produced.

alias no.9

CiniO wrote: »

I can't really see any point in changing it.

The same people who now avoid paying tax, drive a car, and then declare it was off the road, will be able to declare it off the road and then drive it.
I can't see any difference.

Ofcourse probably penalties when caught driving a declared car will be more severe, but what's the point in changing the whole system to achieve this. WOuldn't it be easier just to increase penalties for driving untaxed vehicle in the current system?

In the UK, if your car is neither Taxed nor SORN'd you get a fine in the post, you don't have to be caught on the road. If a SORN'd car is on the road, big fines. None of 'the forms in the post' bullcrap or 'it's only just back on the road Garda and I'm on my way to the Motortax Office'. It's much more clearcut, less room for playing the system.

CiniO

alias no.9 wrote: »

In the UK, if your car is neither Taxed nor SORN'd you get a fine in the post, you don't have to be caught on the road. If a SORN'd car is on the road, big fines. None of 'the forms in the post' bullcrap or 'it's only just back on the road Garda and I'm on my way to the Motortax Office'. It's much more clearcut, less room for playing the system.

I'm not really familiar with UK motor tax system, but for me case is simple.
If vehicle is caught driving taxed - all right.
If vehicle is caught driving untaxed - penalties.

It should really be that simple. I can't see a need for complicating it anymore.

Please Kill Me

draffodx wrote: »

Current system is far too open to abuse to be fair, and these days the abuse is rampant, something was always going to give.

Yes it is, but not without reason. We're being ripped off and they keep bumping the price up, so good enough.

MidlandsM

MidlandsM wrote: »

........................

Soon, you'll be obliged to inform the Gardai when you intend to take your vehicle off the road in the future, like the SORN system in the uk. ...............

Our man in Havana wrote: »

A simple transfer of ownership will wipe out any arrears. .............

True, but the car still can't be driven by the new owner on the road unless it's taxed and if they don't intend driving it they'll have to inform the Gardai it's not going to be on the road. I don't see why wiping out arrears through a change in ownership will appeal to anyone, if it's been declared off the road there won't be any arrears for a start

vectra

CiniO wrote: »

I'm not really familiar with UK motor tax system, but for me case is simple.
If vehicle is caught driving taxed - all right.
If vehicle is caught driving untaxed - penalties. Confiscated and impounded

It should really be that simple. I can't see a need for complicating it anymore.

FYP

Our man in Havana

I means a transfer from A to B to wipe arrears and then transfer back to A. This all happening in the space of a few days.

Chris_Heilong

Thats sad, Having the option to abuse the system a little gives me a sense of freedom even if I have never used this option just having it there was nice(I know this wont make any sense to most people I am just anti control). Things are changing rapidly here in Ireland when it comes to motoring and not all in a good way IMO.

Guy:Incognito

CiniO wrote: »

I'm not really familiar with UK motor tax system, but for me case is simple.
If vehicle is caught driving taxed - all right.
If vehicle is caught driving untaxed - penalties.

It should really be that simple. I can't see a need for complicating it anymore.

It's simpler to just have a system automatically post a fine if a car isnt currently taxed or declared off the road. No need to have to physically catch people. The ones then that do get caught, get the book thrown at them.

dgt

What about us with cars that are years off the road that may want to tax them in the future?

Guy:Incognito

dgt wrote: »

What about us with cars that are years off the road that may want to tax them in the future?

you declare them off the road, then back on again when the time comes.

Our man in Havana

Our man in Havana wrote: »

I means a transfer from A to B to wipe arrears and then transfer back to A. This all happening in the space of a few days.

What would the advantage be?
Under the new system if it's not taxed it has be be declared off road.

Our man in Havana

There are enough threads for discussing the cost of Motor Tax already please use them.

This thread is for discussing the end of the RF100A form.

Marcusm

CiniO wrote: »

I can't really see any point in changing it.

The same people who now avoid paying tax, drive a car, and then declare it was off the road, will be able to declare it off the road and then drive it.
I can't see any difference.

Ofcourse probably penalties when caught driving a declared car will be more severe, but what's the point in changing the whole system to achieve this. WOuldn't it be easier just to increase penalties for driving untaxed vehicle in the current system?

Increasing use of ANPR in Garda cars and elsewhere will make enforcement easier. Penalties for a false declaration should also be set significantly higher than for out of date tax.

If you haven't taxed it or completed a SORN, you get a fine in the post. People who casually forget to renew tax may be wary of making a positive act of a false declaration such that it all becomes less widespread and the Gardai can focus on the rump.

seamus

Our man in Havana wrote: »

I means a transfer from A to B to wipe arrears and then transfer back to A. This all happening in the space of a few days.

Quite easily spotted though, that's your only problem.

You can claim that the transfer is all above board - it is - but that doesn't mean you can't be charged with tax evasion.

Savman

Ah not the dearly beloved RF100A

Suprised they haven't closed this loophole long ago, with the Govt being supposedly broke 'n all.

In fairness when not abused it was a great system, I used it a good few times over the years when having a car parked up. I used to head down to the Garda station with a paper trail showing car insurance transfers etc to back up my claim that I hadn't been using whatever yoke I was getting the form stamped for and proof that I had the insured car taxed etc etc.

-Corkie-

Looks like my timing of selling up was impeccable...:)

-Corkie-

-Corkie- wrote: »

Looks like my timing of selling up was impeccable...:)

Passat gone?

-Corkie-

RoverJames wrote: »

Passat gone?

No Hino's....

Oh

Congratulations or commiserations

(delete as appropriate)

carbon nanotube

MidlandsM wrote: »

well, it was only a matter of time and I heard of confirmation of it on national radio yesterday that the use of the Rf100 is going to cease later this year.

No longer will you be able to go down to the local cop shop and get the olde' el stampo!

Soon, you'll be obliged to inform the Gardai when you intend to take your vehicle off the road in the future, like the SORN system in the uk.

If you don't, when you got to re-tax your vehicle and there's no trace of you informing your car was off the road, you'll have to pay the full back tax for whatever period it was untaxed.

It'll be a sad day to see it go. RIP RF100 ........I'll miss ya :pac:

the RF 100 was a legend of a form...

once I was getting tax but was a bit reluctant to pay 6 months as I was at uni and the lady goes ahh shur fill in the RF100 form..hehe

Please Kill Me

Our man in Havana wrote: »

I means a transfer from A to B to wipe arrears and then transfer back to A. This all happening in the space of a few days.

Yeah, I've done this, where I "sold" my car to my girlfriend when it hadn't been taxed in 6 months. We taxed it, and I "bought" it back. If (when) this thing comes through, it'll be a regular occurrence I reckon.

challengemaster

Our man in Havana wrote: »

A simple transfer of ownership will wipe out any arrears. You will start seeing cars with crazy amounts of owners on them.

They need to change the system so that a car cannot be sold if there is outstanding tax owed on it. If I went to sell my car here, the authorities check to see if there is tax outstanding and if there is the sale is halted until a receipt for the owed tax is produced.

That'll only serve to make things worse, in fairness. You could easily have cars worth a few hundred with several times the amount of that owed on the car in tax, so the only option is to scrap it.

Just make tax cheaper, that way you'll get more compliance in the first place.

Carstuck

About time they got rid of it, it was sicking to be after paying a couple of hundred for tax while your neighbour casually strolled into the Garda station.

L-M

RoverJames wrote: »

In fairness when not abused it was a great system, I used it a good few times over the years when having a car parked up. I used to head down to the Garda station with a paper trail showing car insurance transfers etc to back up my claim that I hadn't been using whatever yoke I was getting the form stamped for and proof that I had the insured car taxed etc etc.

it's funny you say that because i was listening to the radio yesterday and an arguement put forward was that "if a car is insured it should be taxed."

No, for example someone with 1985 S500 that he uses during the summer months as a weekend car. Rather than taxing it for the year he taxes it for six months, but has it insured for the year anyway incase of theft, fire damage etc.

Would be cool if it brought along a system of insuring "summer cars", where it could be sworn off the road for 6 months of the year and proof of this presented to an insurance company could lower premiums.

CiniO

Carstuck wrote: »

About time they got rid of it, it was sicking to be after paying a couple of hundred for tax while your neighbour casually strolled into the Garda station.

Ehh that's right.
No more smile on my face when I saw my neighbour's tax disc updated every 3 months for couple hundred €€€€, while I just strolled from time to time to the Garda station and saved fortune

greenermetals

MidlandsM wrote: »

well, it was only a matter of time and I heard of confirmation of it on national radio yesterday that the use of the Rf100 is going to cease later this year.

No longer will you be able to go down to the local cop shop and get the olde' el stampo!

Soon, you'll be obliged to inform the Gardai when you intend to take your vehicle off the road in the future, like the SORN system in the uk.

If you don't, when you got to re-tax your vehicle and there's no trace of you informing your car was off the road, you'll have to pay the full back tax for whatever period it was untaxed.

It'll be a sad day to see it go. RIP RF100 ........I'll miss ya :pac:

link?

sonyvision

Right what should I do.

My tax is up end of june so is my insurance, car is parked up.

I travel to the US and not return till December if this new rule comes in how am I ment to say my car is off the road if im not here ????

freestyla

CiniO wrote: »

I'm not really familiar with UK motor tax system, but for me case is simple.
If vehicle is caught driving taxed - all right.
If vehicle is caught driving untaxed - penalties.

It should really be that simple. I can't see a need for complicating it anymore.

It's the same in Finland, was like that for long time already.

Every December you get letter with a full next year bill, and you have option to pay it in few installments if want so.

You want it off road, just inform Motor office and you will get money back for those days.

Our man in Havana

In Bulgaria if you don't want to pay the tax you have to surrender your plates to the police.
No plates, no driving.

djimi

Please Kill Me wrote: »

Yeah, I've done this, where I "sold" my car to my girlfriend when it hadn't been taxed in 6 months. We taxed it, and I "bought" it back. If (when) this thing comes through, it'll be a regular occurrence I reckon.

Would be a very easy loophole to close I would have thought.

Our man in Havana

djimi wrote: »

Would be a very easy loophole to close I would have thought.

It won't be easy to close until they change the law.

MidlandsM

djimi wrote: »

Would be a very easy loophole to close I would have thought.

how would it? Cars sell and get bought every minute of everyday......going to be hard to stop change of ownership and you're only liabvle for tax once you aquire ownership of a car...........they can't change that easily either.

djimi

MidlandsM wrote: »

how would it? Cars sell and get bought every minute of everyday......going to be hard to stop change of ownership and you're only liabvle for tax once you aquire ownership of a car...........they can't change that easily either.

It could be done if they wanted to. Make it so you cant reregister the same car back into your own name for 6 months or a year or whatever or something along those lines. Or make it so that if the registration is changed to a spouse/family member then they are still liable for the outstanding tax.

Im not saying its right for them to do it, but if they are determined to stop people from avoiding paying motor tax then Im sure they will find a way to close a loophole like this if people start abusing it.

MidlandsM

djimi wrote: »

It could be done if they wanted to. Make it so you cant reregister the same car back into your own name for 6 months or a year or whatever or something along those lines. Or make it so that if the registration is changed to a spouse/family member then they are still liable for the outstanding tax.

Im not saying its right for them to do it, but if they are determined to stop people from avoiding paying motor tax then Im sure they will find a way to close a loophole like this if people start abusing it.

true, and totally agree, but shure, you could stick it in a pals name (no relation) and then back to yourself the following day..........they'll not be able to stop people.:D

Guy:Incognito

Please Kill Me wrote: »

Yeah, I've done this, where I "sold" my car to my girlfriend when it hadn't been taxed in 6 months. We taxed it, and I "bought" it back. If (when) this thing comes through, it'll be a regular occurrence I reckon.

That wont work. If you car isnt taxed, then it has to be declared off the road. If it's neither, you automatically get a fine. So your not saveing anything by transferrign the ownership as you'll have been fined for tax while it wasnt taxed or declared off the road. If you havnt taxed it or declared it off the road then go past an ANPR camera or a Garda car with one, your car gets taken off you and you get big fines.

CiniO

freestyla wrote: »

It's the same in Finland, was like that for long time already.

Our man in Havana wrote: »

In Bulgaria if you don't want to pay the tax you have to surrender your plates to the police.
No plates, no driving.

How much is the tax in Bulgaria and Finland?

Yawns

Or they could scrap motor tax and add it to the price of fuel.

100% compliance. If you drive, you pay tax. I know someone who refuses to pay motor tax as "it's wrong to tax a car shwear!" He simply changes owner to spouse every few months. Good luck now with him recently saying he wanted to sell it...

Anyway the likes of him can now pay the tax along with everyone if it was on fuel. Those with weekend cars fall into the same bracket. We may see more 3L engines and so forth being used. Pay as you go with a rebate for hauliers etc so it doesn't hit the cost of transporting goods.

Ah but of course, this will not be implemented as it's too logical. Lets keep the tax offices open and keep those people in jobs where it takes them an hour to process 3 tax renewal forms at the counter. Naas being the example here on this one. My god they are painfully slow if you need to go into them. I do my tax online usually tho but am so sure every time that it will get lost in the post

Glad to see the RF100 form is being done away with at the very least. If you know you're not going to be driving it then you can declare it off the road in advance.

djimi

MidlandsM wrote: »

true, and totally agree, but shure, you could stick it in a pals name (no relation) and then back to yourself the following day..........they'll not be able to stop people.:D

Thats why I reckon they would bring in a law that says you cannot hold the registration for the same car twice in a 6 month period or something like that. Or a system where you are liable for any outstanding tax that was on the car when it was previously registered in your name. They probably wouldnt bother, but it depends on how many people are exploiting the loophole. The fact that they are changing the system for declaring a car off the road suggests that they are taking the issue seriously.

MidlandsM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

That wont work. If you car isnt taxed, then it has to be declared off the road. If it's neither, you automatically get a fine. So your not saveing anything by transferrign the ownership as you'll have been fined for tax while it wasnt taxed or declared off the road. If you havnt taxed it or declared it off the road then go past an ANPR camera or a Garda car with one, your car gets taken off you and you get big fines.

there was no mention of automatic fine in the pirce i heard, but I'd say you're right, thats the way they'll do it.

Guy:Incognito

MidlandsM wrote: »

there was no mention of automatic fine in the pirce i heard, but I'd say you're right, thats the way they'll do it.

I was going by the UK SORN system. I'm guessing they'll be copying that.

MidlandsM

MidlandsM wrote: »

there was no mention of automatic fine in the pirce i heard, but I'd say you're right, thats the way they'll do it.

If not there's no point really in any change, although personally I see checkpoints quite frequently but that's in and around Cork City.

db330

RoverJames wrote: »

If not there's no point really in any change, although personally I see checkpoints quite frequently but that's in and around Cork City.

I've been driving 4 years now and do decent mileage 20k + a year, but i'd say i've only across maybe 4-5 checkpoints in my driving time.

Although last week while getting a bus into town i did see one on the N11 but it was set a few meters beyond a turn off, so surely if you wanted to avoid this it is very simple to do so.

But I'll be sad to see this go, we have a car at home that gets put on the road every few months, but no whats gonna happen is we will put it on the road for 3 months or so but then forget to declare it off the road and probably cost us a fortune when next year comes to tax it again.

So what happens if your tax runs out and you just leave it could be common for people that have several cars

Our man in Havana

CiniO wrote: »

How much is the tax in Bulgaria and Finland?

There are 2 taxes in Bulgaria. A local tax and a main road tax. Both taxes are annual and run from January to December with no exceptions.
The local tax is dependant on many factors such as age of the vehicle, where you live and the power output, it typically is around €20 a year. The main road tax is €34 a year.

Carstuck

CiniO wrote: »

Ehh that's right.
No more smile on my face when I saw my neighbour's tax disc updated every 3 months for couple hundred €€€€, while I just strolled from time to time to the Garda station and saved fortune

Are we neighbours?

CiniO

Our man in Havana wrote: »

There are 2 taxes in Bulgaria. A local tax and a main road tax. Both taxes are annual and run from January to December with no exceptions.
The local tax is dependant on many factors such as age of the vehicle, where you live and the power output, it typically is around €20 a year. The main road tax is €34 a year.

That's 54 quid a year.
I know salaries in Bulgaria are generally lower than in Ireland, but for gods sake it's waaaaaaaayyy more affordable for average Bulgarian than €600 motor tax for an average Irish person.

MidlandsM

CiniO wrote: »

That's 54 quid a year.
I know salaries in Bulgaria are generally lower than in Ireland, but for gods sake it's waaaaaaaayyy more affordable for average Bulgarian than €600 motor tax for an average Irish person.

hence why some larger haulage co's here are actively considering re-registering their business's and fleet of trucks in bulgaria but still continue to operate all over europe.