Ernie Els, surely deserves an invite for the Masters?

ssbob

Hi Guys,

I just want ot know your thoughts on this. As it stands with 2 more events to come Ernie is in 62nd position on the OWGR and needs to break the top 50 to be invited to Augusta.

IMO I think he should be invited for his global appeal as a golfer, he is one of the very few who is still a real globe trotter and considering Ryo Ishikawa was given a special invite, surely Ernie is entitled to one.

Just my thoughts...........

Anatom

What's the story with Ernie ssbob? Why do you think he deserves a special dispensation to get into the Masters?

He's a great golfer to be sure, but he doesn't light the place up in any way more than many others do. There's no huge personality there. He doesn't appeal especially to the galleries (as far as I can see). Granted, he's an excellent golfer. He seems to be quite pleasant and doesn't seem to throw strops like others are wont to do, but I don't see that there's any special case to be made for him...

slave1

He's had plenty of play at Augusta over the years, if he had won at some stage or was higher ranked (all at his feet) then he would not have to rely on an invite.

ssbob

He has 6 top 10's and has come 2nd twice in Augusta so has the game for the place. Think he deserves to be there on what he does for golf globally.

The Masters hand out invites to international players in the hope of developing the game. Surely what Ernie does is develop the game considering both Louis and Charl have come through his program in SA?

Ah don't mind me I just like watching the Big Easy in action......serious swing!

charlieIRL

sign of the times with all the new talent that is coming through now that a lot of our old time favourites (who were maybe peaking at golf when we got interested in it) are not making the elite tournaments like the masters.

mr.jingle

If he didn't blow up in last weeks tournament then he'd have been there, if he's gonna blow his chance in a tour event like that then what chance does he have in the Masters?

I used to love watching Ernie in his pomp and his swing is magnificent but just because of past performances does not mean a player deserves a spot they must earn it and so far ha hasn't.

What about the players ranked from 51-61 why don't they get an invite?

BoardsMember

I think they hand out invites to up & coming international stars. Els is on the wane, as his ranking suggests. I like the guy, amazing what ho does for autism etc, but he should have to qualify just like the rest of them, not because he has a nice swing and has been good in the past, does good deeds etc.

sunbabe08

his time came and went. he had a chance to win it in 2004, and in 2000. not saying his time is up, he still has another couple of years. just needs to find form

ssbob

I take all your points on board, and actually of 51-61 only 4 are not currently qualified:

• Retief Goosen:eek:
• Robert Rock-good form needs a big push
• Greg Chalmers-decent player don't know much about him though.
• Matteo Mannasero(also had a chance over the weekend of getting in)

The invites are for players who can appeal to a wider audience and thats why they used invite a handful from Asia as that is an up and coming market, not for up & coming international stars.

Would love to go to it some year..............dreaming:rolleyes:

charlieIRL

ssbob wrote: »

Would love to go to it some year..............dreaming:rolleyes:

honeymoon?!!

ssbob

charlieIRL wrote: »

honeymoon?!!

Might try that one at home........so "Wifey" we are not going to Lanzarote any more............

sunbabe08

ahhh retief goosen-the quiet man of the golfing world. seriously when he's good he's on fire.


goosen is another one who come close to winning the masters, 2nd twice and 3rd twice.


can some one up there give k.j choi a kick up the arse, seriously he has come so close only for it to go kaput on the last day.


ssbob, i share your dream of one day going to the masters. *sigh*

my friend

ssbob wrote: »

Hi Guys,

I just want ot know your thoughts on this. As it stands with 2 more events to come Ernie is in 62nd position on the OWGR and needs to break the top 50 to be invited to Augusta.

IMO I think he should be invited for his global appeal as a golfer, he is one of the very few who is still a real globe trotter and considering Ryo Ishikawa was given a special invite, surely Ernie is entitled to one.

Just my thoughts...........

never understood the draw of Ernie Els, no charisma , boring to watch

No, leave him at home.

Rastapitts

why was Ishikowa given a special invite?

kincsem

^ they would love an Asian winner, preferably Japanese.

ssbob

Rastapitts wrote: »

why was Ishikowa given a special invite?

they had no Japanese representative and wanted an international star who would promote the masters brand in Japan.

ssbob

sunbabe08 wrote: »

ssbob, i share your dream of one day going to the masters. *sigh*

Maybe we could organise a group deal?.....:D:D

Dr_Colossus

my friend wrote: »

never understood the draw of Ernie Els, no charisma , boring to watch

No, leave him at home.

Such blasphemy, I could watch him swing a club all day with that silky smooth swing of his. Was my favorite player growing up and even had a vhs video of his on the golf swing from his home course in Fancourt I think it was. Watched that tape numerous times but it hasn't seen the light of day in about 15 years now and no longer in possession of a video player to play it.

Even in his prime and often in contention TV coverage of him was always rather limited for some reason. As you implied maybe he just didn't appeal to the mass audience which I don't understand given his swing, graceful power and all round positive demeanor both on and off the course.

JerryHandbag

Is there a preset number of invitations that they give out every year, or is it just a random once off thing (like Ishikawa) ?

Think I recall Greg Norman getting an invite once, probably sympathy for all his near misses!

coylemj

JerryHandbag wrote: »

Is there a preset number of invitations that they give out every year, or is it just a random once off thing (like Ishikawa) ?

Think I recall Greg Norman getting an invite once, probably sympathy for all his near misses!

I think getting near the event they get a clear view of how many players are likely to qualify for an 'invitation' so they then reckon they can squeeze in one or two more. I put the word in quotes because the Masters has no 'exemptions' like the other majors, everyone is technicaly an 'invitee'.

Currently the only remaining ways to qualify are to win a ranking PGA tournament or get into the OWGR top 50 in the week before the Masters.

The Asian connection is all about promoting the event to a bigger market as an earlier poster said. I recall a few years ago Monty was packing his bags in anticipation of an invitation for the last slot as a playing member of the previous Ryder Cup European team but they gave the last slot to a Korean as insurance in case the other Korean already invited failed to make the cut so Monty missed out!

Trigger13222

Looks like Els might be able to get in off his own back , think I heard them say on shy a top 3 in bay hill would qualify him.

Goldenjohn

Big fan of Ernie but unfortunately I have to say I hope he doesn't make the masters, think the greens there would be the final nail in his putting yip coffin.

ssbob

Goldenjohn wrote: »

Big fan of Ernie but unfortunately I have to say I hope he doesn't make the masters, think the greens there would be the final nail in his putting yip coffin.

In fairness I saw about 5 really bad putts from him yesterday............

Redzah

ssbob wrote: »

In fairness I saw about 5 really bad putts from him yesterday............

Safe to say that he does not deserve to be there (unless he wins next week), he's thrown away 2 glorious chances in the last 2 weeks.

Tones69

Redzah wrote: »

ssbob wrote: »

In fairness I saw about 5 really bad putts from him yesterday............

Safe to say that he does not deserve to be there (unless he wins next week), he's thrown away 2 glorious chances in the last 2 weeks.

I agree, i think its the fact that hes played augusta every year since 1994! And the fact that he is a nice guy and nobody has a bad word to say about him

link_2007

Redzah wrote: »

Safe to say that he does not deserve to be there (unless he wins next week), he's thrown away 2 glorious chances in the last 2 weeks.

Hard to disagree with this imo

ssbob

Redzah wrote: »

Safe to say that he does not deserve to be there (unless he wins next week), he's thrown away 2 glorious chances in the last 2 weeks.

There are currently 95 invited excluding the past champs who will not be playing so I would doubt they will invite him tbh unless he wins in Houston. His form tee to green has been excellent in the last two weeks, he needs to sort himself out on the greens!

Whyner

coylemj wrote: »

everyone is technicaly an 'invitee'.

Is that actually true?

Redzah

Whyner wrote: »

Is that actually true?

Doubtful, say some1 qualifies as he's 49th in the world and comes out and says that augusta is overratted and the guys who run it are up their own ass. Does that mean Augusta have the right to pull his invitation? If not then it would be an exemption and not an invitation. I know the PGA might reprimand somebody for these comments but I would be skeptical if the hierarchy at augusta would have the right to withdraw the invitation for anybody in the top 50.

Russman

I think its still invitation. It was mentioned briefly on the Sky coverage last week. As far as I know nobody is in until the invite actually arrives. Being in, say, the Top 50, means you qualify for an invite (which I suppose might not arrive )
Augusta could well pull the invite from someone who was qualified, if they wanted to.

Of course I could be completely wrong but I'm fairly sure thats the way it is.

Hacker111

Russman wrote: »

I think its still invitation. It was mentioned briefly on the Sky coverage last week. As far as I know nobody is in until the invite actually arrives. Being in, say, the Top 50, means you qualify for an invite (which I suppose might not arrive )
Augusta could well pull the invite from someone who was qualified, if they wanted to.

Of course I could be completely wrong but I'm fairly sure thats the way it is.

That's the way it is...... no one qualifies automatically...they qualify to be invited by the members of Augusta!!

BoardsMember

I'd be fairly certain that Augusta dont have the power to pull an invite from someone who "qualifies", i.e. is in the top 50. There's no way the PGA would allow a major to be run where the top 50 are not guaranteed their place.

Redzah

BoardsMember wrote: »

I'd be fairly certain that Augusta dont have the power to pull an invite from someone who "qualifies", i.e. is in the top 50. There's no way the PGA would allow a major to be run where the top 50 are not guaranteed their place.

Agreed, its a substance over form arguement. The lads in augusta probably maintain its an "invite" so they can feel good about their power status, but in reality its an exemption i.e. whens the last time somebody in the top 50 was not "invited"? I don't believe that the lads at augusta have the ability to pull an invite to a top 50 player as the PGA would step in and let them know who's boss

Russman

I think the PGA know who's boss when it comes to Augusta, and its not the PGA

I would suggest the players would tee it up in the Masters even if the PGA decided it wasn't an official event. It would still be a "major" in their eyes.

Unless its changed recently The Masters was always an invitation only tournament run by a private club. The top players in the game were always invited. I think as recently as the Faldo, Woosnam, Seve days there was no official criteria for being invited other than finishing in the top 12 the previous year or being a past winner. Its only since the advent of the WGC events and the prominence of the OGWR that a more formal list of criteria have been published or decided upon. I still think the club are the ultimate power in the case of The Masters. Obviously for other tournaments the PGA can take a tournament away from a course etc etc but I'm pretty sure not in this case.

ssbob

Well Augusta chairman Billy Payne did criticise Tiger in the wake of his extra marital affairs, the PGA would never do that to the ratings grabber that is Tiger, however Augusta did protect him when he came back.

I think in the last few years Augusta has opened it's doors a bit more e.g. More telivised coverage, Tiger Woods Masters edition games.

foxyboxer

The Masters represents Golf at it's exclusive worst whereas the Open majors is Golf at it's inclusive best.

Augusta National is like a beautiful woman. Her personality maybe disagreeable but I mean just LOOK AT HER.

Whyner

Kevin - Qualifiers or Invites? Pass this one on to your research team

Russman

Both ! apparently

http://www.masters.com/en_US/players/invitees_2012.html

"Qualification for Invitation"

Whyner

Yeah so the interesting bit as Redzah pointed out is, has anyone qualified and not received an invite?

Loire

ssbob wrote: »

There are currently 95 invited excluding the past champs who will not be playing so I would doubt they will invite him tbh unless he wins in Houston. His form tee to green has been excellent in the last two weeks, he needs to sort himself out on the greens!

And Augusta certainly wouldn't be a ideal place to achieve this

Tones69

Top 50 in the world are automatically in i thought then the rest are invites and certain wins etc??

Russman

Whyner wrote: »

Yeah so the interesting bit as Redzah pointed out is, has anyone qualified and not received an invite?

I doubt very much they've ever not invited anyone who qualified, but I reckon they could do if they decided/wanted to......

Redzah

Russman wrote: »

I doubt very much they've ever not invited anyone who qualified, but I reckon they could do if they decided/wanted to......

As I said before, its substance over form here, its called an invite for exerybody so they can remain stuck up their own ass but in reality its an exemption for top 50.

BoardsMember

Whyner wrote: »

Yeah so the interesting bit as Redzah pointed out is, has anyone qualified and not received an invite?

The penny doesn't seem to be dropping....the answer is no, and will always be no. It will never EVER happen that someone in the top 50 is not "invited" to Augusta.

Tox56

It's like a newly elected PM of the UK seeking the approval of the Queen. The Queen could technically say "no, I don't want him", but they never would.

Russman

BoardsMember wrote: »

Whyner wrote: »

Yeah so the interesting bit as Redzah pointed out is, has anyone qualified and not received an invite?

The penny doesn't seem to be dropping....the answer is no, and will always be no. It will never EVER happen that someone in the top 50 is not "invited" to Augusta.

I think the discussion was about whether the club had the power to "not" invite someone. The answer to that is yes they do have that power, but, as you say, it will in all likelihood never happen. The Masters is still a tournament run by a private club in accordance with their rules.

Whyner

BoardsMember wrote: »

The penny doesn't seem to be dropping....the answer is no, and will always be no. It will never EVER happen that someone in the top 50 is not "invited" to Augusta.

Maybe I'd like to drop a bag of pennies on your headmaster tone. It seems plausible that someone previously qualified (I never mentioned top 50) but was not invited, e.g some controversy...Georgia is deep south after all and they had their own views back in the day

Redzah

Whyner wrote: »

Maybe I'd like to drop a bag of pennies on your headmaster tone. It seems plausible that someone previously qualified (I never mentioned top 50) but was not invited, e.g some controversy...Georgia is deep south after all and they had their own views back in the day

The masters set out qualifying criteria and revise periodically, if somebody qualifies under the qualifying criteria, then the have an exemption to play, masters committee then send out an invite to confirm this but its merely a formality. For example if you win the US Open then under the qualifying criteria you have a 5 year exemption. You will still receive an invite for these 5 years but this is only a formality, the fact is that you have a 5 year exemption.

BoardsMember

Whyner wrote: »

Maybe I'd like to drop a bag of pennies on your headmaster tone. It seems plausible that someone previously qualified (I never mentioned top 50) but was not invited, e.g some controversy...Georgia is deep south after all and they had their own views back in the day

Headmaster tone was unintentional, hope I did not bring back bad memories...:D

BoardsMember

Redzah wrote: »

The masters set out qualifying criteria and revise periodically, if somebody qualifies under the qualifying criteria, then the have an exemption to play, masters committee then send out an invite to confirm this but its merely a formality. For example if you win the US Open then under the qualifying criteria you have a 5 year exemption. You will still receive an invite for these 5 years but this is only a formality, the fact is that you have a 5 year exemption.

That should just about wrap it up, well explained, using a patient tone and taking the time to explain it properly helps!

coylemj

Tweet from the Irish Times just now, the linked article mentions the Monty situation a few years ago where he was overlooked in favour of an Asian player.

Els' citzenship works against him for Masters: Golf: If only Ernie Els had thought to change his nationality from South African to Chinese it could have all been so different this week

http://t.co/kcNVt5Gm