skronedale gundogs

fiestaman

Lads have any of ye dealed ere before.

http://www.skronedalegundogs.com/

Spunk84

fiestaman wrote: »

Lads have any of ye dealed ere before.

http://www.skronedalegundogs.com/

You won't go wrong with one of Norman Blakeney or Sara I think the wife is called dogs. Don't quote me on it but I was told Norman was the first lad to win a British stake with his dog . Most of the Northern lads will go to him first for a good dog

rabbit assassin

Theres not a thing that man doesnt know about gun dogs. Absolute expert at what he does !

terminator2

monty....... international field trial champion......some springer;)........ Hattonswood Brock

TriggerPL

it all depends on what your looking for, if a trail dog then he's your man but a hunting dog i dont know if he would have what your looking for.

for hunting dogs you need to go to a lad that is hunting them all the time and know what he's got .

now im not saying you couldn get a pup off this crowd and have a very gud hunting dog , with spaniels it hit and miss , and more miss than hit , everyone would agree.

it impossible to get a gud spaniel ..

Vizzy

TriggerPL wrote: »

it all depends on what your looking for a trail dog then he your man but a hunting dog i dont know if he would have what your looking for.

hunting dogs you need to go to a lad that hunting them all the time and know what he got .

now not saying you couldn get a pup of this crowd and have a very gud hunting dog , with spaniels it hit and miss , and more miss than hit , everyone would agree.

it impossible to get a gud spaniel ..

WHAT ???
Are you for real ??

kemen

triggers dead right.. alot of the hunting breeding is bred out of the trial spanials if that makes sense! a mate of mine brought a spanial to him to finish off the dogs training and he was looking to get the dog to bred dome rough hunting back in!!
A trial dog wouldnt last pissing time on a long rough days hunting!

Spunk84

TriggerPL wrote: »

it all depends on what your looking for, If its trail dog then hes your man but a hunting dog i dont know if he would have what your looking for.

translation: it all depends on what your looking for, If its trail a dog then hes your man, for "hunting" dogs im sure he might have some good dogs in his kennels.

TriggerPL wrote: »

ihunting dogs you need to go to a lad that hunting them all the time and know what he got .

translation: To get a good hunting bred dog usually lads like worker off worker bred. Some trail dogs will be great workers but seeing a dogs parents working will more in likely the pups will be good.

TriggerPL wrote: »

inow not saying you couldn get a pup of this crowd and have a very gud hunting dog , with spaniels it hit and miss , and more miss than hit , everyone would agree.

translation:IMO i dont know what i just said? neither does anyone

TriggerPL wrote: »

it impossible to get a gud spaniel ..

Translation: I buy all my dogs of Donedeal!

Spunk84 Translation:TriggerPL Norman is a man who has trialed dogs and won countless amounts of competitions all his life. His wife teaches the Swedish government/army/customs on the uses of sniffer dogs and how to train them;) I think either one might put you onto a good dog

TriggerPL

Spunk84 wrote: »

translation: it all depends on what your looking for, If its trail a dog then hes your man, for "hunting" dogs im sure he might have some good dogs in his kennels.



translation: To get a good hunting bred dog usually lads like worker off worker bred. Some trail dogs will be great workers but seeing a dogs parents working will more in likely the pups will be good.



translation:IMO i dont know what i just said? neither does anyone



Translation: I buy all my dogs of Donedeal!

Spunk84 Translation:TriggerPL Norman is a man who has trialed dogs and won countless amounts of competitions all his life. His wife teaches the Swedish government/army/customs on the uses of sniffer dogs and how to train them;) I think either one might put you onto a good dog

first of all sorry for the **** typing im replying off an i phone and its a bitch .

where do you get off spunk i didn at any stage say this man aint got a clue about dogs .

and seeing as your so well up on trailing men you should have heard of Tim dennehy

who wrote an article in the shooting times under the heading of "state of the modern day springer spaniel "

just to give you an idea of my dogs

lab bitch , father is
FTCH Donaghaguy Garnet (MICK)(2nd Irish Championship) CLA team 2009

my spaniel is bread from hattonswood broc Normans dog !!

and my pointer is sister to
Mr J Dalton's Moathill Saddle de Lagopus PB graded Excellent winner of the open pointer confined stakes 2011

pretty sure you wont get these on donedeal .


its a knowing fact , that it seems you have missed that trailing spaniels have left the springer spaniel breed at the stage that you can not find the hunting dogs of yester years .

yes he wins trials and he runs training classes but what norman wont tell you, like alot of trailing men is that they go true more spaniels trying to find that gud one then you do hot dinners .

and what has his wife got to do with gundogs .

all im saying is that if your looking for a working spaniel then try some one with working breeds , dogs that can hunt all day in heavy cover . and see the dog and bitch working , its better then spending 500 on a pup that might not work out .

TriggerPL

Vizzy wrote: »

WHAT ???
Are you for real ??

yes im for real!!!!!

read all the post on here about spaniels

Ronnie Beck

fiestaman wrote: »

Lads have any of ye dealed ere before.

http://www.skronedalegundogs.com/

I haven't dealt with them before. Not in my price range. Savage dogs to be had for 150 euro if you know the right people.

Wouldn't go buying one unless I was going to breed them with a good hard rough shooting dogs I had already. (unless trialing is your thing)

If it's just a once off good shooting dog you want there's alot better value for money to be had.

fiestaman

Right well im not into trialing,i want a black & white dog pup for rough shooting, duck pheasant & woodcock. I thought somthing with FTCh in the breeding would be the way to go. Its not easy to come across good dogs.

TriggerPL

fiestaman wrote: »

Right well im not into trialing,i want a black & white dog pup for rough shooting, duck pheasant & woodcock. I thought somthing with FTCh in the breeding would be the way to go. Its not easy to come across good dogs.

your right it not easy to come across gud dogs . so dont limit your self to a black and white pup , and alot of spaniel men would say that black and whites tend to be softies . but i dont agree . it either in them or not . and the colour dont determine that .

fiestaman

Sorry lads, has anyone heard of this man?

http://www.topclassdogs.com/index.htm

John_Rambo

Spunk84 wrote: »

I think the wife is called dogs. Don't quote me on it

That's a bit harsh Spunk. :pac:

TriggerPL

fiestaman wrote: »

Sorry lads, has anyone heard of this man?

http://www.topclassdogs.com/index.htm[/QUOTE]

In the 8 years ive been involved with the retriver trails in ireland ive never heard of him .

few things that i would be weary about !

1 he claims to be irelands no 1 trainer and breeder . but doesnt trail .

2 claims to have bread champions but does not name them on his site. if i was breeding champions id be putting there names up.

are you set on a spaniel , if your duck shooting and doing a bit of woodcock a lab would be just as gud to you .

but if it woodcock your after more so than it a spaniel you want .

depending on where you are see if you can get in contact with lad that do beats for estates , see if they know of any pups going , normally there dog work for a living so they have to be top notch.

lb1981

Two lads in our gun club are on the Irish team ,their dogs are nice fast stylish dogs all from skronedale stock but they dont use them for a full days rough shooting.THe dogs are bread for quick busts for a few minutes each time they will tell you that themselves you have to put a lot of work into them to slow them down and make them last for the whole day.
There are plenty of good dogs out there you just have to wade through the ****e first, a good mix in the pedigree is the first thing to look out for, then ask to see the parents working and i dont mean fetching a dummy in the back garden and sitting and staying, a good run out in a field , so you can see how they hunt and behave, dont ever feel under pressure to buy a pup,keep looking till you feel happy and always ask to see were the dogs are kept ,this way you can see if he is puppy farming ,this happens a lot with gundogs.
Have you considered buying a cocker? great little dogs ,will go all day and can get in and out cover like a shot,a good one is pricey though but well worth it.
Mine was 600, every single dog and bitch in the pedigree is a feild trail champion, but she will go all day and then do the same the next day but i had to put a lot of work in to calm her down a bit

TriggerPL

lb1981 wrote: »

Two lads in our gun club are on the Irish team ,their dogs are nice fast stylish dogs all from skronedale stock but they dont use them for a full days rough shooting.THe dogs are bread for quick busts for a few minutes each time they will tell you that themselves.
There are plenty of good dogs out there you just have to wade through the ****e first, a good mix in the pedigree is the first thing to look out for, then ask to see the parents working and i dont mean fetching a dummy in the back garden and sitting and staying, a good run out in a field , so you can see how they hunt and behave, dont ever feel under pressure to buy a pup,keep looking till you feel happy and always ask to see were the dogs are kept ,this way you can see if he is puppy farming ,this happens a lot with gundogs.
Have you considered buying a cocker? great little dogs ,will go all day and can get in and out cover like a shot,a good one is pricey though but well worth it.

thank you sir .

lb1981

By the way from what the lads say Norman Blakney is a nice bloke and im sure if you told him what your needs are he would point you in the right direction.
Another lad from the club left his bitch in with him for a service, but the bitch got out on him ,these things can happen ,so he gave the lad the pick of the litter from his next top mating.

snipe02

the dogs will learn to pace themselves, no springer will stay in heavy cover all day, they all get tired and sore trialing or not ,fitness and condition play a big part people tend to look back through rose tinted glasses springers of yester year my arss

TriggerPL

snipe02 wrote: »

the dogs will learn to pace themselves, no springer will stay in heavy cover all day, they all get tired and sore trialing or not ,fitness and condition play a big part people tend to look back through rose tinted glasses springers of yester year my arss

Right , so let me get this right ur saying that the men that work these dogs and trail these dog don't have them at full fitness and this is why they won't hit the heavy cover all day .

Yes I agree that dogs pace them selves but getting a spaniel to hit the heavy cover is where the problem lies and hitting it for more then 15 mins .

When a man that has trailed all his life with spaniels writes an article stating that the spaniels of today lack the drive of spaniels of yester years , how do you make out he has Rose tinted glasses on . Please tell !

snipe02

ye rose tinted glasses thats what i said....prob some element of truth in it but dont believe everything ya read ....there are still from what i have seen very hard going spaniels bred from trialing lines being used for rough shooting have one and shoot with lads that have them and know others you just thanked a post by lb stating his friends dont use there dogs all day because it takes too much time to teach them too pace themselves and slow down he never said the dogs would not do it im just saying still plenty of good ones around and some article in a book doesnt change that breed from a screwball and get a screwball breed from two hard going dogs and ya might get one how can one man put all trialing spaniels around today in the one bracket with the stroke of a pen

TriggerPL

snipe02 wrote: »

ye rose tinted glasses thats what i said....prob some element of truth in it but dont believe everything ya read ....there are still from what i have seen very hard going spaniels bred from trialing lines being used for rough shooting have one and shoot with lads that have them and know others you just thanked a post by lb stating his friends dont use there dogs all day because it takes too much time to teach them too pace themselves and slow down he never said the dogs would not do it im just saying still plenty of good ones around and some article in a book doesnt change that breed from a screwball and get a screwball breed from two hard going dogs and ya might get one how can one man put all trialing spaniels around today in the one bracket with the stroke of a pen

have you read my post at all . i didnt say you can not get a gud dog from trailing breeds . my own spaniel is from hattonswood brock backround, but i done the reserch and found a man with a hard hitting bitch and he bread with a hard hitting dog and guess what it payed off . ive a spaniel that would take down a building for a bird .

but these spaniels, were not trailing spaniels they were big powerful heavy boned spaniels not the light things you see doing figure eights at trails .

and i did not say that all trailing spaniels were in the same dog house ! i stated that spaniel men go true more spaniels looking for that gud one . So norman isnt going to sell you a pup that he thinks has the makings of a champion . he going to sell you the ones he dont want , like any trailing man would do .

And it not some article in a book ! Prob so element of truth in it its wrote by one of the best trailing men there is . i think he know a thing or two .

Your right about screwballs , hattonswood brock was bread with every bitch that was willing to pay the fee , people think " oh ive a spaniel bitch there il breed her to this ftch and now ive pups worth 400 euro " not taking into account that there bitch isnt even worthy of a house dog , never mind breeding to a champion .

brianfrancis45

fiestaman wrote: »

Sorry lads, has anyone heard of this man?

http://www.topclassdogs.com/index.htm

Yes. He is a well known gun dog trainer. I bought a springer off him a couple of years ago and I'm very happy with the dog. What I really liked about him is that he tries to fit the dog to the handler . Before I bought from him he let me see several dogs working , both very hard going dogs and some softer dogs... until I picked the one that I felt most comfortable with, which by the way was also his choice of dog for my handling abilities/experience. He's not the cheapest man to buy a dog from but then again he sells quality dogs and I know several lads who bought form him and were very satisfied.

TriggerPL

brianfrancis45 wrote: »

Yes. He is a well known gun dog trainer. I bought a springer off him a couple of years ago and I'm very happy with the dog. What I really liked about him is that he tries to fit the dog to the handler . Before I bought from him he let me see several dogs working , both very hard going dogs and some softer dogs... until I picked the one that I felt most comfortable with, which by the way was also his choice of dog for my handling abilities/experience. He's not the cheapest man to buy a dog from but then again he sells quality dogs and I know several lads who bought form him and were very satisfied.

You pay for what you get !

gud to hear , could you post up the kinda back breeding of you dog so we have an idea of what lines he goes with .

and if it not to much hastle a pic , just curious as to weather it traily types or strong working dogs .

cheers

brianfrancis45

quote
http://www.topclassdogs.com/index.htm[/QUOTE]

In the 8 years ive been involved with the retriver trails in ireland ive never heard of him .

few things that i would be weary about !

1 he claims to be irelands no 1 trainer and breeder . but doesnt trail .

2 claims to have bread champions but does not name them on his site. if i was breeding champions id be putting there names up.
Unquote

Trigger, Frank Maunsell trialed dogs for years and was very successful. I am sure any old timers involved in springer trials would know him. Mind yuou he hasn't trialed for some years now as his focus is on breeding and training (both for fellas who want field trial dogs or good rough shooting dogs). As far as other gun dogs are concerned, afaik in the past he has bred/trained an int ft ch lab ( who i heard was sold some years ago to Japan for the price of a small house !) Just to be clear , I have no connection with the man apart from having bought a springer from him (and knowing other that have done likewise) and I have heard no complaints. Although I don't trial dogs myself I do attend several springer trials each year including open stakes. I've seen several dogs bred by Maunsell ( the kennel prefix name is ''Aughacasla'') run in the trials and many of them were right up there ......

As already said , I don't have any connection with the man as such, but fair is fair - the man really does know his dogs and is well respected especially in Munster for his training ability.

brianfrancis45

TriggerPL wrote: »

You pay for what you get !

gud to hear , could you post up the kinda back breeding of you dog so we have an idea of what lines he goes with .

and if it not to much hastle a pic , just curious as to weather it traily types or strong working dogs .

cheers

Trigger,

The dog I bought from him is out of Bramble Taff, Laganmill , Monalue lines.
He bought the dog as a pup from another breeder . trained him and then I bought him.

Frank Maunsell also breeds his own springers with the kennel pre-fix ''Aughacasla '' which AFAIK appear to have a lot of Monalue in the lines.

I've seen a variety of springers for sale at his kennels - some small/very flashy trialing type dogs and some big strong old fashioned type springers.

Mauser 308

Guys as a matter of interest does anyone recomend someone who trains pointers in the leinster /midlands area?

snipe02

look i agree with most of what you say and you have agreed with most of what ive said i personally dont know enough about trialing springers to be going on about this its just and you have said this yourself that there are still plenty of hard going trialing lines around why ****e on the spaniels of the past... the reason i said rose tinted glasses is thats the way i see it is there any actual evidence and i say actual not just peoples opinions and ya know what opinions are like and we all have em to back this theory up ..the op asked a question and the thread was taken over by this read it in a book outburst norman blakely is suppose to be the best in ireland so op i would take his advice anyday over some dude on boards.ie im sure you wont go wrong giving him a ring anyway best of luck with getting a dog

kermitpwee

snipe02 wrote: »

look i agree with most of what you say and you have agreed with most of what ive said i personally dont know enough about trialing springers to be going on about this its just and you have said this yourself that there are still plenty of hard going trialing lines around why ****e on the spaniels of the past... the reason i said rose tinted glasses is thats the way i see it is there any actual evidence and i say actual not just peoples opinions and ya know what opinions are like and we all have em to back this theory up ..the op asked a question and the thread was taken over by this read it in a book outburst norman blakely is suppose to be the best in ireland so op i would take his advice anyday over some dude on boards.ie im sure you wont go wrong giving him a ring anyway best of luck with getting a dog

Lots of valid points. The modern trialing springer is a different animal then in the past. The modern spaniel is smaller and faster and the trials are set on ground that is laced with game. The modern trialer will prefer a spaniel with less drive(due to the amount of game on the trial site) and a spaniel that is of a soft temperant that can be trained like a robot.
the spaniels that won in the 70's and 80's were dogs that would hunt ground all day even if they came across very little game as they had very high drive. These dogs would not do well in a modern field trial and vice versa.

In ireland there are pockets of spaniels that are still big boned and strong, in recent years these dogs are been bought by Uk breeders to introduce size back into the breed.

Cockers are still relatively untouched in there breeding lineage as they have only recently become popular in trialing circles. There is talk that openshaw is now concentrating on trialing cockers more as he knows the Ess gene pool has been damaged beyond repair.

lb1981

kermitpwee wrote: »

Lots of valid points. The modern trialing springer is a different animal then in the past. The modern spaniel is smaller and faster and the trials are set on ground that is laced with game. The modern trialer will prefer a spaniel with less drive(due to the amount of game on the trial site) and a spaniel that is of a soft temperant that can be trained like a robot.
the spaniels that won in the 70's and 80's were dogs that would hunt ground all day even if they came across very little game as they had very high drive. These dogs would not do well in a modern field trial and vice versa.

In ireland there are pockets of spaniels that are still big boned and strong, in recent years these dogs are been bought by Uk breeders to introduce size back into the breed.

Cockers are still relatively untouched in there breeding lineage as they have only recently become popular in trialing circles. There is talk that openshaw is now concentrating on trialing cockers more as he knows the Ess gene pool has been damaged beyond repair.

I have a cocker from Openshaws Chyknell goldstar , unbelevable energy ,she will go go 2 days in a row non stop ,she cost me big as a pup but i am more than happy with her and il make that money back when i breed her but that is not important .She has 50 ftch in a 5 gen pedigree, now she took a lot of work to channel that energy but it has come up trumps for me.My springer pup (1 year) is coming on brilliant his sire is Blaencowny Archie of lake county and the bitch is a wood cock dog with good drive and that mix has threw a big strong dog pup for me, really obedient and clever and full of muscle so with that mix i didnt have to calm him down he just takes to training and hunting naturally.
So there is an example of 2 dogs from two different back grounds that can work together with some owner effort put in.
It is a pain in the hole when you look through donedeal and every set of pups sire is hattonswood broc or skronedale romulas, the interbreeding in a few years will be a joke in irish spaniels.

Maxus

Hi,
I have been looking at this for long enough and feel I have to post to back up what other guys for what they have been saying. There are different types of dogs for different circumstances (horses for courses). The The type of dogs used in trialing today have been purpose bred to be small fast stylish and easy to train, they are used to ground with plenty game. These dogs would not last the day hunting where i am as it is very rough ground where game can be sparse for long parts of the day and cover is heavy where the game is. These are dogs that are proper capable of hunting woodcock all day long. I have two bitches with Monalue G parents these are proper dogs for Irish terrain and game. I hope to breed one of these this year but have spent alot of time trying to find a similar dog with Monalue lines im not pushed if it has FTCH before its name as long as it has good drive and is not afraid of cover. if you just want a dog for hunting get a dog that you know the parents are good hunting dogs and have a reasonable pedigree .
If you are interested in trialing then breeding is vital to get a small stylish spaniel.

fiestaman

Well lads thanks for all the replys. i have bought a pup from Working stock with Monalue Lines:). I seen the parents and the owner showed me the Sire hunting HEAVY cover and he was like a bulldozer.Also took me to a pond and showed me him retreiving. he had excellent control of the dog. Nice stocky well built dogs the two of them. this is the kind of dog i need for my hunting as its like what Maxus said, heavy cover not much game but dog will have to hunt so hopefully from the breeding he will turn out good. Thanks all. spoke to Norman Blakney, a very nice man and gave me a least 20mins on the phone talking about dogs.

Collecting on saturday, will post up a pic next week:)

kermitpwee

Maxus wrote: »

Hi,
The The type of dogs used in trialing today have been purpose bred to be small fast stylish and easy to train, they are used to ground with plenty game. These dogs would not last the day hunting where i am as it is very rough ground if you just want a dog for hunting get a dog that you know the parents are good hunting dogs and have a reasonable pedigree .
If you are interested in trialing then breeding is vital to get a small stylish spaniel.

Agree totally, it is annoying that trialing has gone the way it has, there was a time when trialing was the showroom for hunting spaniels and pedigree spaniels actually meant something. Now trialing is a seperate sport from hunting, sad to see imo.

kermitpwee

lb1981 wrote: »

I have a cocker from Openshaws Chyknell goldstar , unbelevable energy ,she will go go 2 days in a row non stop ,she cost me big as a pup but i am more than happy with her and il make that money back when i breed her but that is not important .She has 50 ftch in a 5 gen pedigree, now she took a lot of work to channel that energy but it has come up trumps for me.My springer pup (1 year) is coming on brilliant his sire is Blaencowny Archie of lake county and the bitch is a wood cock dog with good drive and that mix has threw a big strong dog pup for me, really obedient and clever and full of muscle so with that mix i didnt have to calm him down he just takes to training and hunting naturally.
So there is an example of 2 dogs from two different back grounds that can work together with some owner effort put in.
It is a pain in the hole when you look through donedeal and every set of pups sire is hattonswood broc or skronedale romulas, the interbreeding in a few years will be a joke in irish spaniels.

Agree with most of what you say but the cocker example is not a good one as there lineage has not been destroyed in the pursuit of trials. Your pup has become big boned as the bitch was a big woodcock dog? she must be as most traits in dogs come from the bitch. In trialing there are more dog ftch than bitches as you can make a fortune of the stude money to every tom, dick and harry that has a bitch looking for a service. A Ftch bitch could help save the breed with selective breeding taken if she was of a good size but very little money can be made form her. There are exceptions to every rule but thats the main jist imo.

lb1981

Maxus wrote: »

Hi,
I have been looking at this for long enough and feel I have to post to back up what other guys for what they have been saying. There are different types of dogs for different circumstances (horses for courses). The The type of dogs used in trialing today have been purpose bred to be small fast stylish and easy to train, they are used to ground with plenty game. These dogs would not last the day hunting where i am as it is very rough ground where game can be sparse for long parts of the day and cover is heavy where the game is. These are dogs that are proper capable of hunting woodcock all day long. I have two bitches with Monalue G parents these are proper dogs for Irish terrain and game. I hope to breed one of these this year but have spent alot of time trying to find a similar dog with Monalue lines im not pushed if it has FTCH before its name as long as it has good drive and is not afraid of cover. if you just want a dog for hunting get a dog that you know the parents are good hunting dogs and have a reasonable pedigree .
If you are interested in trialing then breeding is vital to get a small stylish spaniel.

Here is my fellas pedigree if you want a service down the line;)

lb1981

kermitpwee wrote: »

lb1981 wrote: »

I have a cocker from Openshaws Chyknell goldstar , unbelevable energy ,she will go go 2 days in a row non stop ,she cost me big as a pup but i am more than happy with her and il make that money back when i breed her but that is not important .She has 50 ftch in a 5 gen pedigree, now she took a lot of work to channel that energy but it has come up trumps for me.My springer pup (1 year) is coming on brilliant his sire is Blaencowny Archie of lake county and the bitch is a wood cock dog with good drive and that mix has threw a big strong dog pup for me, really obedient and clever and full of muscle so with that mix i didnt have to calm him down he just takes to training and hunting naturally.
So there is an example of 2 dogs from two different back grounds that can work together with some owner effort put in.
It is a pain in the hole when you look through donedeal and every set of pups sire is hattonswood broc or skronedale romulas, the interbreeding in a few years will be a joke in irish spaniels.

Agree with most of what you say but the cocker example is not a good one as there lineage has not been destroyed in the pursuit of trials. Your pup has become big boned as the bitch was a big woodcock dog? she must be as most traits in dogs come from the bitch. In trialing there are more dog ftch than bitches as you can make a fortune of the stude money to every tom, dick and harry that has a bitch looking for a service. A Ftch bitch could help save the breed with selective breeding taken if she was of a good size but very little money can be made form her. There are exceptions to every rule but thats the main jist imo.

I was just using the cocker as she was breed for trailing,so it took time to get her in rough shooting mode,the springer both parents are big as the sire is from monalue lines,I was just saying by mixing the sire with the woodcock birch it threw a set of pups that could hunt heavy cover but have good trailing lines

TriggerPL

lb1981 wrote: »

I was just using the cocker as she was breed for trailing,so it took time to get her in rough shooting mode,the springer both parents are big as the sire is from monalue lines,I was just saying by mixing the sire with the woodcock birch it threw a set of pups that could hunt heavy cover but have good trailing lines

Cockers lines have not being damaged as much because their already small and fast .
when you see springers and there as small as cockers does that tell ya there something wrong.

yes your right mixing trailing blood with strong working bitches isnt a bad thing , it when you line breed trailing dogs with trailing bitches , that is where the problem is . or joe soap mixing his family bitch that he bought for a hundred euro with a ftch and expecting pups worth 400 euro a pop advertised as good gun dogs pups.

TriggerPL

lb1981 wrote: »

Here is my fellas pedigree if you want a service down the line;)

Picture of the dog ?

TriggerPL

nice solid looking dog stocky , im a big fan of heavy marks of liver over white.

i set up a post a few pages back to try and get a spaniel data base going post him up on it so lads can see whats out there for a service .

Tk.ie

fiestaman wrote: »

Well lads thanks for all the replys. i have bought a pup from Working stock with Monalue Lines:). I seen the parents and the owner showed me the Sire hunting HEAVY cover and he was like a bulldozer.Also took me to a pond and showed me him retreiving. he had excellent control of the dog. Nice stocky well built dogs the two of them. this is the kind of dog i need for my hunting as its like what Maxus said, heavy cover not much game but dog will have to hunt so hopefully from the breeding he will turn out good. Thanks all. spoke to Norman Blakney, a very nice man and gave me a least 20mins on the phone talking about dogs.

Collecting on saturday, will post up a pic next week:)

Hi
Best of luck with the new pup - I've been looking for a ESS for a few weeks and done deal is full of crap at the mo. Could you tell me where you got your pup from as want to get a heavy cover dog for the golden vale in south Leitrim

fiestaman

Tk.ie wrote: »

fiestaman wrote: »

Well lads thanks for all the replys. i have bought a pup from Working stock with Monalue Lines:). I seen the parents and the owner showed me the Sire hunting HEAVY cover and he was like a bulldozer.Also took me to a pond and showed me him retreiving. he had excellent control of the dog. Nice stocky well built dogs the two of them. this is the kind of dog i need for my hunting as its like what Maxus said, heavy cover not much game but dog will have to hunt so hopefully from the breeding he will turn out good. Thanks all. spoke to Norman Blakney, a very nice man and gave me a least 20mins on the phone talking about dogs.

Collecting on saturday, will post up a pic next week:)

Hi
Best of luck with the new pup - I've been looking for a ESS for a few weeks and done deal is full of crap at the mo. Could you tell me where you got your pup from as want to get a heavy cover dog for the golden vale in south Leitrim

Pm sent.....

TriggerPL

hey is it this saturday your collecting the pup .?

fiestaman

TriggerPL wrote: »

hey is it this saturday your collecting the pup .?

No last saturday, have him at home since. He sleeps in the shed at night and during the day, 9-4. Girlfriend lets him out at 1 when shes on lunch. I let him in around d house then in evening,i think im doing wrong by doing this as hes getting to like the house. Id hate to put him back in shed after been out for an hour as hes in there most of the day. Run should b finished sunday,then can put him in there. Still screeching abit in morning when he wakes. Hope he takes to the run ok coz have neighbors.

TriggerPL

fiestaman wrote: »

No last saturday, have him at home since. He sleeps in the shed at night and during the day, 9-4. Girlfriend lets him out at 1 when shes on lunch. I let him in around d house then in evening,i think im doing wrong by doing this as hes getting to like the house. Id hate to put him back in shed after been out for an hour as hes in there most of the day. Run should b finished sunday,then can put him in there. Still screeching abit in morning when he wakes. Hope he takes to the run ok coz have neighbors.

nothing wrong with what ya are doing pup need loads of social interaction , and it will stand to you when your hunting him . the run will be different cause he in the fresh air and see all that going on , if the barking starts knock it on the head straight away . give him a shake and shout NO! he wont be long getting the message .

but dont go letting him out when he's barking or he will soon realise that barking get him what he wants .

Any pic yet ?

fiestaman

TriggerPL wrote: »

fiestaman wrote: »

No last saturday, have him at home since. He sleeps in the shed at night and during the day, 9-4. Girlfriend lets him out at 1 when shes on lunch. I let him in around d house then in evening,i think im doing wrong by doing this as hes getting to like the house. Id hate to put him back in shed after been out for an hour as hes in there most of the day. Run should b finished sunday,then can put him in there. Still screeching abit in morning when he wakes. Hope he takes to the run ok coz have neighbors.

nothing wrong with what ya are doing pup need loads of social interaction , and it will stand to you when your hunting him . the run will be different cause he in the fresh air and see all that going on , if the barking starts knock it on the head straight away . give him a shake and shout NO! he wont be long getting the message .

but dont go letting him out when he's barking or he will soon realise that barking get him what he wants .

Any pic yet ?

Thanks,i thought that about run. Its funny,when i let him out he trots around and takes about 10mins before he goes toilet after he smells and picks up everything,then he runs to back door to go in so i pass on and call him up the garden for another 5mins then call him from there in. Quick to pick up the luxeries. Hopefully pic thiseven. Cant upload from phone,well i dont know how

fiestaman

Pics posted in pic thread

snipe02

smashing looking pup hope he turns out well for ya and wish ya many years happy hunting with em

TriggerPL

good looking pup , gud head and lovely marking . ya got to luv spaniels with big brown heads . very best of luck.
Is monalue cherry blossom in his background , the marking are very badgercourt , which is no bad thing

fiestaman

TriggerPL wrote: »

good looking pup , gud head and lovely marking . ya got to luv spaniels with big brown heads . very best of luck.
Is monalue cherry blossom in his background , the marking are very badgercourt , which is no bad thing

Thanks. Yea strong monalue in the lines in both parents going back. I hope he is as good as his father and cousins. Il do my best for him.

highduck

fiestaman wrote: »

TriggerPL wrote: »

good looking pup , gud head and lovely marking . ya got to luv spaniels with big brown heads . very best of luck.
Is monalue cherry blossom in his background , the marking are very badgercourt , which is no bad thing

Thanks. Yea strong monalue in the lines in both parents going back. I hope he is as good as his father and cousins. Il do my best for him.[/Quote

fiestaman wrote: »

TriggerPL wrote: »

good looking pup , gud head and lovely marking . ya got to luv spaniels with big brown heads . very best of luck.
Is monalue cherry blossom in his background , the marking are very badgercourt , which is no bad thing

Thanks. Yea strong monalue in the lines in both parents going back. I hope he is as good as his father and cousins. Il do my best for him.

Best of luck with your pup I hope he turns out to be a hunting machine and all you want in a spaniel.

Just reading the total post I want to make a few comments.

I dont buy this argument about trialing dogs not being able to hit cover or last a days hunting.Its a load of ****.some of the best hunting spaniels that i have seen were trial bred/extrial dogs.monalue this ,monalue that,yes i agree that they are good line but look at a monalue pedigree whats behind it.-top trial breeding.a lot of it uk beeding where dogs were and still hunted on estates where they fall over game.any trial man worth a ****e breeds for drive,speed style and stamina.drive is what causes a dog to belt cover.speed and style are what excentuate drive and those three arent worth a toss if a dog if the dog hasnt the stamina to maintain that pace for long periods.

i have sold trial dogs that didnt have the speed to win trials that have gone to areas where within two weeks i have had calls from guys asking if i had any more for sale.

I have trialed a dog on a saturday and shot 8-10 woodcock off them on a sunday.They were all trial bred by myself or other trial men.

The reason that a lot of roughshooting men dont like trial breeding is because the dogs are soft in temperment and guys havnt the patience or experience to train them.probably the hardest hunting spaniels that i have seen have all had soft temperments.hattonswood broc,stedroc sker.misslechalke lad,carburgh art- sof temperments but all champions and machines to hunt.

A **** bitch to a champion dog is **** breeding not trial breeding.a lot of shooting bitchs are notjudged realisticly by their owners before breeding them to champions.

Equally most champions are over used and flood the gene pool which is not a good thing for.the breed.

People should.judge their bitch realisticaly and not breed her unless she is exceptional as a hunting dog with no major faults (HARD MOUTH,NOISE ETC).

If she is they should look at her pedigree and try and identify where her strengths come from and breed to a equally good dog(NOT NECESSARILY A CHAMPION) that has that strong line is his pedigree.line breeding is the only hope of reproducing quality consistantly ,outcrosses are necessary but are a lottery and rarely throw exceptional litters as a whole.

Trial men do go through a lot of dogs but this is because each one is looking for next badgercourt druid,hales smut or kenine rob.average dosnt cut in trials.dogs have to be very good to exceptional to last the course.

Advice to anyone wanting to buy a hunting machine go to a few trials and watch the dogs that cant be held in a tight hunting area by their handlers.these are the strong hunting dogs with plenty of drive and usually dont last in trials but make exceptional roughshooting or woodcock dogs.

Apologies for the grammer and spelling mistakes trying to type on iphone with big mick fingers.